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| Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle (428152) | |
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| (428478) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri May 11 23:22:44 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 11 22:50:41 2007. Illogical and implausible. Macy's alone asking for it would not have caused the TA to carry it out.Who was the MTA chairman at that time? What position did he occupy prior to becoming MTA chairman? |
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| (428498) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 12 01:55:59 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 11 13:54:33 2007. Absloutely. The Culver route would have been the perfect solution to "what to do with the M train" in Southern Brooklyn. It could have run between Metro Ave and Ditmas Ave weekdays. Nights and weekends, Myrtle and Culver shuttles respectively. It would have gave the M a real purpose in Southern Brooklyn, and would have kept southern F riders a connection to both 4th Ave in Brooklyn and Broadway in Manhattan |
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| (428500) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sat May 12 02:35:52 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 12 01:55:59 2007. I was thinking of the same thing - that would've been a great idea as well as making the M more useful than a redundant D or R line in Brooklyn. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (428513) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by JohnL on Sat May 12 05:51:52 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by David of Broadway on Fri May 11 19:19:58 2007. Ron has been shilling for the MTA here for at least a couple of years! |
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| (428514) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat May 12 06:01:39 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri May 11 20:06:20 2007. They have housing on the former ROW. |
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| (428529) | |
Re: Increasing QB capacity |
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Posted by Railman718 on Sat May 12 07:59:04 2007, in response to Re: Increasing QB capacity, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri May 11 22:43:40 2007. 4 Mins to clean a train out??Where is this?? Cleaned out quite a few trains down here... Depends on WHERE you are cleaning that train out.. |
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| (428536) | |
Re: Increasing QB capacity |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat May 12 08:32:18 2007, in response to Re: Increasing QB capacity, posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 11 17:00:36 2007. The Archer Av service running Queens Blvd Local? Doesn't sound good to me! LIRR, AirTrain to Queens Blvd Local? Who would use it? |
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| (428547) | |
Re: Increasing QB capacity |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 10:19:50 2007, in response to Re: Increasing QB capacity, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat May 12 08:32:18 2007. Oh I didn't say I recommend that scheme. I just brought it up as a way of increasing train throuput regardless of actual service pattern.Your point is well taken. |
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| (428583) | |
Re: Increasing QB capacity |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:06:46 2007, in response to Re: Increasing QB capacity, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat May 12 08:32:18 2007. Back in the day, that was the plan. The original Archer Ave plan had the N running to Jamaica Center weekdays, and the G all other times. Signage indicating this was installed at Union Tpke in 1985/6. |
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| (428586) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:09:53 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri May 11 15:06:09 2007. Water leaks everywhere. Many of the light fixtures on the Manhattan-bound platform have shorted out and temporary incandescent bulbs have been strung up. The water is also rotting away the grout between the tiles on the platform and many are either loose or are missing altogether. |
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| (428588) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:11:43 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by R30A on Fri May 11 16:07:00 2007. Sutphin is bad, but at least it's better lit than Jamaica Center. Queensbridge has vaulted past them both in recent weeks. Go there and see for yourself. |
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| (428595) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:19:33 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 12 01:55:59 2007. The annoying this is that they tore the structure down less than a year before the M was removed from the Brighton line. I doubt that they could have used it immediatley, but as the routing of the M down the West End became more and more permanent, and the changing of attitudes away from closure and demolition to that of rehabilitation in the latter part of the 1980's, the logic of having the M serve a rebuilt line would have been easy to see. The only thing which would have made it difficult was the enormous cost rebuilding the el structure would bring. Basically, it needed new everything and would have had to have been stripped down to a steel skeleton and rebuilt from there. |
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| (428596) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:21:39 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri May 11 20:06:20 2007. Ridership was driven down by an organized effort to make the service less and less desirable. The line was doomed in 1954, it's survival for another 19 years was a minor miracle. |
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| (428600) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:40:05 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 11 22:50:41 2007. You are wrong, as usual. It was Mays and Gertz which led the charge for el abandonment. Even after the Archer Ave. line was proposed, they used all their political muscle to get the el closed quickly. That's why it was truncated twice, the first being the section east of Sutphin, the section of Jamaica these people cared about. The smaller stores actually fought to keep the el, at least until the new subway was ready. Gertz closed their Jamaica store even before the el was closed, Macy's a couple of weeks after and Mays held on until 1980 or so. After that, Old Jamaica slowly died. It's a minor miracle it was able to hold on and come back somewhat in the 1990's. |
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| (428601) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:41:30 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri May 11 23:22:44 2007. It's easier to just point out Ron's mistakes so that those who read this thread know them, rather than engage in some sort of discourse in the hope that he'll learn. |
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| (428604) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:44:33 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Rail Blue on Fri May 11 18:05:13 2007. The most sensible thing to do would have been to keep the whole el open to 168th St until April 1985, when the construction east of 121st St. began. Cutting it back to Queens Blvd in 1977 made NO sense at all, especially considering the expense of installing a crossover and crew quarters at Queens Blvd, just to abandon IT less than 8 years later. |
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| (428606) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:46:28 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by SMAZ on Sat May 12 06:01:39 2007. Any new el structure would probably have to run above 38th St. Good luck getting permission to do THAT. |
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| (428610) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:50:02 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by J trainloco on Fri May 11 17:33:06 2007. Lincoln is right. The 63rd St. connector did not increase capacity on Queens Blvd, it increased the numbers of these trains which could run into Manhattan. Queens Blvd currently operates no more service than it did before 12/2001, but it does allow ALL of it to go to Manhattan, because the V replaced the G. |
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| (428611) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:53:06 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by E Line Fan on Fri May 11 17:53:29 2007. Yes. I actually |
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| (428612) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat May 12 12:56:48 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:41:30 2007. I asked two simple factual questions. Would you like to answer them?1. Who was the MTA Chairman, when the Jamaica Ave El was truncated? 2. What was his employment prior to becoming MTA chairman? |
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| (428615) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 13:02:15 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat May 12 12:56:48 2007. I know the answer to both, apparently Ron does not. |
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| (428616) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by R30A on Sat May 12 13:05:14 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:11:43 2007. recent weeks?I havn't been in the city in recent weeks, but I return tomorrow and may be able to check things out then. But anyway, how bad could a few weeks have made queensbridge?(Last time I was there was December.) |
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| (428617) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by R30A on Sat May 12 13:06:42 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:53:06 2007. Yay for expired statute of limitations ! |
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| (428618) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 13:08:12 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by R30A on Sat May 12 13:05:14 2007. I went thru last week for the first time since last fall, and I was shocked to see the condition of the Manhattan-bound platform. I know, I should've taken pictures. |
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| (428621) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sat May 12 13:35:11 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:19:33 2007. A shame they don't have logic there at the MTA. |
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| (428625) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:42:34 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri May 11 23:22:44 2007. Marginally relevant. Still not enough to make Macy's the arbiter. |
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| (428626) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:43:56 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 12:41:30 2007. Ha! As opposed to your ignorant railbuff bullshit? IfI had to point out your mistakes, it would be easier for you to erase 90% of your posts and just start over.Good one, Chris. |
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| (428627) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:44:35 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat May 12 12:56:48 2007. Questions that have little to do with the issue. |
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| (428628) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:45:41 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 12 01:55:59 2007. Interesting solution... |
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| (428630) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 13:49:16 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:42:34 2007. You are a fucking moron. Yunich's #1 priority was getting rid of the el in Jamaica. He wanted it done in 1975, opposition delayed it until 1977. |
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| (428631) | |
Re: Where the extra capacity is |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:49:19 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by R30A on Fri May 11 17:47:58 2007. Well, it added potential capacity.6th Av express tracks (Chrystie St project) + 63rd St Extension + new route plugged into 63rd street (in addition to local Queen Blvd connection) = true new added capacity. Queens Blvd.capacity did not change, but there is still spare capacity in the Sicth Avenue IND trunk that is unused. |
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| (428632) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 13:50:33 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:43:56 2007. Please point out my mistakes, Ron. If you want to engage in a "who's more wrong?" war, I am both willing and very confident that I'll kick your ass. |
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| (428633) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 13:51:58 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:44:35 2007. Right. And slavery had very little to do with the Civil War. Go jump off an anticlimber. |
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| (428634) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:54:26 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 13:49:16 2007. At least I f**k women. You f**k train cars (hey, to each his own). Are they better than vaginas? do you use oil first? :0)Yeah, maybe he wanted to get rid of it. Wasn't going to happen unless enough elected officials went along with it, and Macy's by itself, could not make that happen. It's another one of Stephen's fantasies. |
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| (428635) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:55:20 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 13:50:33 2007. This thread is the first one. |
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| (428636) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sat May 12 13:58:33 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 13:51:58 2007. What about a moving gap filler? |
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| (428637) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 13:58:33 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:54:26 2007. Macy's by itself did make it happen, by getting one of it's vice presidents appointed as chairman of the MTA. Most of the small businesses in Jamaica wanted the el retained. This is accepted fact. |
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| (428638) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 13:59:31 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Grand concourse on Sat May 12 13:58:33 2007. I wanted to say pantograph, but Ron thinks an anticlimber is a pantogrpah. |
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| (428641) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 14:15:47 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 13:58:33 2007. Why don't you go jack off with your R32 girlfriend? Accepted fact? Among a few ignorant railbuffs? Jay Leno's "Jayewalking" feature is always looking for doofuses to interview. You'd be perfect! Wanna audition? I know somebody at NBC; I could ask for you. |
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| (428642) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 14:16:52 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Grand concourse on Sat May 12 13:58:33 2007. Chris is on the wrong end. He needs the female connector. Sex with him has to be electric! |
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| (428643) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sat May 12 14:21:03 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 14:16:52 2007. Ok then, so were is your source that refutes this cliam?The "merchants along Jamaica Av" who were pressing for the El to come down was Macy's. They abandoned Jamaica two weeks after El service stopped. The small merchants along Jamaica Ave knew many of their customers used the El and wanted it to stay. |
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| (428644) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat May 12 14:27:32 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 13:44:35 2007. Questions that have little to do with the issue.Why don't you answer the two simple factual questions? 1. Who was the MTA chairman, when the Jamaica El was truncated? 2. What position did he occupy prior to becoming MTA Chairman? They are easy question. You can get the names of all past MTA chairmen from the MTA website. You can then google the relevant chairman. Come on now Ron. Are you afraid of the answers? |
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| (428645) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by MJF on Sat May 12 14:59:50 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 14:15:47 2007. You really are a piece of work. |
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| (428647) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 15:09:43 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat May 12 14:27:32 2007. It was already stated that Mr. Yunich was chair at the time. Yunich had worked for Macy's. That's true.What is NOT true and not even plausible, is that the chair by himself could order an elevated removed over the objections of local elected officials. Macy's may have favored this but would have required the cooperation of other business owners in the area. That the El was torn down means that cooperation was secured. They thought that subway service through the new tunnel would soon resume; it did not. |
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| (428648) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 15:11:00 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 14:15:47 2007. Looks like we have another RonIsBs moment on our hands. This thread will now explode (especially after the sun sets tonight) and Larry will have to reef it. :( |
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| (428649) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 15:13:11 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Grand concourse on Sat May 12 14:21:03 2007. After Macy's left Jamaica, the idea of restoring service to 168th was briefly toyed with. Had the el not come down so quickly, it could have seen a service restoration, at least until 1985. |
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| (428652) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 15:17:25 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by RonInBayside on Sat May 12 15:09:43 2007. What is NOT true and not even plausible, is that the chair by himself could order an elevated removed over the objections of local elected officials. Yes, it can when those officials owe allegience to a special interest group, notably Macy's. City politics in the early 1970's was radically different than today. |
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| (428654) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sat May 12 15:25:49 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 15:13:11 2007. I wonder what the ridership was like to those el stations? |
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| (428655) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sat May 12 15:26:18 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 12 15:13:11 2007. I wonder what the ridership was like to those el stations? * in terms of numbers |
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| (428656) | |
Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle |
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Posted by R30A on Sat May 12 15:27:36 2007, in response to Re: May 11, 1975. . .End of the Culver shuttle, posted by Grand concourse on Sat May 12 15:26:18 2007. They were mean.Seriously though, Downtown Jamaica has been one of the 3 main centers of queens for a long time. Ridership couldnt have been too shabby... |
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