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| Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR (384012) | |
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| (387454) | |
Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 12:06:13 2007, in response to Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR, posted by ntrainride on Thu Feb 15 11:37:52 2007. Here's a current photo taken from a similar angle (slightly leftwards from the historic photo) 
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| (387455) | |
Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 12:07:47 2007, in response to Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 12:06:13 2007. Ooops, sorry, I meant to post this photo:
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| (387459) | |
Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by ntrainride on Thu Feb 15 12:13:45 2007, in response to Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 12:07:47 2007. Heh, really not much difference, except for the old parkway streetlamps and green traffic sign. And all the trees. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 12:14:50 2007, in response to Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR, posted by ntrainride on Thu Feb 15 12:13:45 2007. It would be a big difference if the photo was taken westwards instead, as the parjway is lined with large apartment buildings there now. |
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| (387463) | |
Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 12:25:48 2007, in response to Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 12:14:50 2007. Actually, here's one looking west in the same spot:
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| (387465) | |
Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by ntrainride on Thu Feb 15 12:40:55 2007, in response to Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 12:25:48 2007. Ahhh. The difference in photos reminds me of the classic shot of the new Queens Blvd elevated train running through an empty Sunnyside compared to now. |
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Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Feb 15 15:24:06 2007, in response to Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 12:25:48 2007. Actually, here's one looking west in the same spotThe buildings on the left look like they could predate the Parkway |
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| (387527) | |
Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 15:30:41 2007, in response to Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Feb 15 15:24:06 2007. Actually, I always used to think that those may have faced a small Union Turnpike before the parkway was built. I really don't know. But perhaps that would explain why they made that area of the parkway so narrow. It all depends if those buildings are older than around 1929 or so. |
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| (387617) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 15 19:03:59 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Feb 14 20:20:32 2007. "his roads and bridges are an asset we enjoy to this day."Except when you are stuck in traffic and going nowhere. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 19:15:41 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 15 19:03:59 2007. Yeah, but better than being crippled on a local road with all that traffic... |
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| (387621) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 15 19:24:56 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 19:15:41 2007. But on many local roads, you could turn off and take anothe route. On an expressway, you are doomed till the next exit. |
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| (387625) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 19:31:48 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 15 19:24:56 2007. Yup, yeah, local roads with traffic lights, and people walking on the sidewalks are a much better way for all the traffic, trucks, cars, and what not to traverse the NY area. How could they possibly have put those more convenient limited access roads here. |
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| (387627) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 15 19:33:45 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 19:31:48 2007. I'm not saying we should have only local roads -- only that if, nowadays, you are stuck in traffic, it is often easier to get out of it you are stuck on a local road --more intersections to get out of it with. |
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Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Feb 15 20:04:09 2007, in response to Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR, posted by ntrainride on Thu Feb 15 11:12:37 2007. Is anyone aware that the DOT demolished the two unused overpasses on the double "S" curve ? I saw this myself on a recent drive on the JRP. Only the concrete retaining walls remain with fencing on top.Bill "Newkirk" |
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| (387662) | |
Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 15 21:02:48 2007, in response to Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Feb 15 20:04:09 2007. Yes, they did that about a year ago. However, the bridges have been closed for quite a few years alreay, perhaps even a decade. They have been falling apart, and I think they have had little to no maintenance since they were put up. They had to be closed because chuncks had fallen off, and they were unsafe. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 15 21:19:49 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 15 19:24:56 2007. About 5 years ago on a July 4th cars were stuck on the Belt Parkway for about 4 or 5 hours. I forgot what the problem was, but I was glad I wasn't there. They didn't even get a free round trip like the Jet Blue people did. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 15 23:34:41 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Feb 14 20:20:32 2007. Oh stop itNope. Make me. as mentioned throughout this thread, many of his roads and bridges are an asset we enjoy to this day You call that enjoyment? You must be a masochist. And just about no one anywhere in any city was spending money on transit in Moses' era Lame excuse. He brought money to NY, limited federal funds that other cities also wanted Yes, everyone else's money. |
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| (387754) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 15 23:47:29 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Feb 14 17:06:07 2007. Other than Central Park and a few others, New York had virtually no parks to speak of. We were so park hungry that in the 1800s people routinely picnicked in cemeteries or alongside rural roads. He built several hundred within the City in a few short yearsAnd what did these parks turn into? Great places to smoke crack and get jumped. Care to elaborate on his swimming pool policies? The South would have loved him. Most of the roads he built were necessary and NY would not be nearly as successful without them. Yes, they could have taken different routes with much less displacement of people, but that is another story Eh? NYC was "successful" without those roads already—all port cities are inherent successes. The displacement of people is not "another story"—it's the main story. I regard the worsening of slums as a lack of success; don't know about you. His contributions through out the entire state including Long Island are too numerous to mention What was the result of them? Urban sprawl is not a "benefit"—it's a curse. An ongoing curse, to boot. Long Island is no place to visit, and you can't get around without the LIRR—due to his roads, and imagine how bad things would have been if the LIRR was scaled down. I already mentioned that the LIE probably would have been a surface boulevard in the City limits if Moses didn't have the vision to make it limited access So? The LIE is motionless. All that happened is you got more money spent on a road that would have been equally motionless. Just look at the results where Moses did not build. It takes forever to get across Brooklyn because there is no Cross Brooklyn Expressway It would take forever to get across Brooklyn even with an expressway, which would take no car traffic off the Belt Parkway and only result in creating another jammed-up truck route. Zero-sum game, as far as getting vehicles from A to B. Without him, there probably would never have been a Belt Parkway I don't believe that. After all, there was a West Side Highway without him (and a railroad built that—ain't it funny how it's the only highway within NYC environs that got demolished and never replaced). The Belt Parkway would have been the Belt Expressway instead. I think Chris already made a powerful case of this numerous times in this discussion. There is no reason to repeat them again No, he repeated fallacies. |
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| (387755) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 00:06:59 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 15 23:47:29 2007. And what did these parks turn into? Great places to smoke crack and get jumped.Oh please. Care to elaborate on his swimming pool policies? The South would have loved him. Terrible, but unfortunately, that was the time too. It was before the 60's and the civil rights movement, anti-segregation laws, etc. As disgusting as stuff like that was, it was unfortunately the norm, especially the further back you go. Eh? NYC was "successful" without those roads already—all port cities are inherent successes. Of course. But that was 1800's New York. The rest of the country was changing to an automobile oriented society. The golden age of transit building was the late 1800's to about the 1920's. The golden age of road construction in this country was 1920 to the 1960's. New York would not be the city it is today with out it's roads and bridges, and NY is an extremely strong city. Long Island is no place to visit, and you can't get around without the LIRR—due to his roads Huh? You can't get to every point a to every point B with the LIRR. So? The LIE is motionless. All that happened is you got more money spent on a road that would have been equally motionless. The LIE is the lifeline of Long Island. ALl the traffic it DOES carry could not be absorbed by Jericho Turnpike and the Sunrise Highway (not to mention what moves on the parkways). It would take forever to get across Brooklyn even with an expressway, which would take no car traffic off the Belt Parkway and only result in creating another jammed-up truck route. The amount of traffic, cars/buses/trucks that DOES move on the BQE couldn't possibly be absorbed by Brooklyn's local roads, local roads that people must live and walk along. In addition, the sheer volume of traffic that moes on the Belt, etc. No, he repeated fallacies. Your assumptions are fallacies. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 16 00:37:34 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 15 23:47:29 2007. It would take forever to get across Brooklyn even with an expressway, which would take no car traffic off the Belt Parkway and only result in creating another jammed-up truck route. Zero-sum game, as far as getting vehicles from A to B.Not true. Cars would be taken off from local streets paralleling the Cross Brooklyn as well as some from the Belt. Yes, there would be a lot of trucks using it but that is due to the lack of a freight tunnel across the Narrows and the one-way tolls on the Verrazano which encourages trucks to use it eastbound. I don't believe that. After all, there was a West Side Highway without him (and a railroad built that—ain't it funny how it's the only highway within NYC environs that got demolished and never replaced). The Belt Parkway would have been the Belt Expressway instead. The old Miller Highway (West Side Highway) and the Belt Parkway aren't comparable. Miller Highway was built as an elevated road above streets requiring little if any demolition. The fact that it wasn't rebuilt has nothing to do with Moses, other than he was losing or lost his power by the time Westway was conceived. The Belt Parkway required demolition of some homes that were in its path. Moses was able to get it done. An expressway would have required even more land and more demolition and would have caused more opposition if built in the late thirties. If built in the late forties or early fifties, even more demolition and displacement would have been required because Brooklyn was developing. Ditto for the late fifties. All but impossible in the sixties, after the formation of Community Planning Boards and communities becoming more vocal. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 16 01:54:09 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 16 00:37:34 2007. The old Miller Highway (West Side Highway) and the Belt Parkway aren't comparable. Miller Highway was built as an elevated road above streets requiring little if any demolitionThat's not the basis I'm comparing them on. I'm comparing the money of the New York Central Railroad with public money. Cars would be taken off from local streets paralleling the Cross Brooklyn as well as some from the Belt. Yes, there would be a lot of trucks using it but that is due to the lack of a freight tunnel across the Narrows and the one-way tolls on the Verrazano which encourages trucks to use it eastbound And no traffic relief. |
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Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Feb 16 02:51:39 2007, in response to Re: Interboro stuff: Re: Set Your VCR, posted by ntrainride on Thu Feb 15 12:13:45 2007. Another difference is the Jersey barrier and the lane lines. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Feb 16 12:48:59 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Feb 13 19:40:58 2007. "...somewhere around Babylon (not sure of the exact location), where the westbound side breaks apart, forms four lanes, two going under a two lane bridge, and two going another two lane bridge."Yup. Here ya go bro; it's on the westbound side past the northbound entrance to the Sagtikos Parkway. Right after that it does the split. Exits 40 and 41. The pic is a little too high for good detail but it's actually the "left" side of the picture. 
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 16 12:59:53 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 16 01:54:09 2007. That's not the basis I'm comparing them on. I'm comparing the money of the New York Central Railroad with public money. I don't understand what you are trying to say. And no traffic relief. Church Avenue and Linden Boulevard which are now major truck routes would have less traffic. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 13:17:54 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by ntrainride on Fri Feb 16 12:48:59 2007. Yup! That's it. Actually, I found a better view. In this link, the left, ,westbound side is the original southern state, and the right, eastbound side, is the parallel one that was built when the parkway was expanded to 6 lanes. The right hand (middle) tunnel of the eastbound side is the original eastbound side of the southern parkway:http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qspn3d8wsmp4&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=9672640 In the following link is a typical southern parkway bridge. For most of the bridges both east and west bound traffic went under the left,westbound bridge. The eastbound right one was added when the parkway was expanded to 6 lanes. The original Robert Moses parkway is on the left though: http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qsp1228wrrc8&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=9746466 |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 14:44:15 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 13:17:54 2007. The original Robert Moses parkway is on the left though:To be clear, I didn't mean the "RM Parkway", I meant, the original, R.M. "Southern Parkway".... |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Feb 16 14:45:16 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 13:17:54 2007. darn. couldn't link to those sites. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 16 15:09:13 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 13:17:54 2007. You've gone too far with this highway worship. This needs to go to OTChat now (IIRC the duplicate thread's gone). |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 16:04:11 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 16 15:09:13 2007. Highway worship? They are a necessity, just as they are in every other city that built them. All the traffic that they DO carry could not be absorbed by local streets, local streets that people must live on. But anyway, the thread has already run it's corse, there's not much else to talk about that hasn't been mentioned? The original intent unfortunately accounted for 10% of this thread, but that happens anytime RM come up. I think everyone has already said what they want to say at this point, so no need to move now. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 16:07:38 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 16:04:11 2007. And besides, all I was doing was talking to ntrain about how the Southern State was expanded. We were having a conversation. There was no controversy in that post, it was factual information. If it was one you weren't particularly interested in, then click on something else.And in this whole thread, there has been no ill will, just debate, so I don't see what the problem is. RM is always on topic for transit, especially the way many feel he effected it. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Fri Feb 16 17:27:34 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 16:04:11 2007. Highway worship? They are a necessity, just as they are in every other city that built them. All the traffic that they DO carry could not be absorbed by local streets, local streets that people must live on.Exactly. A large number of people would choose not to drive rather than drive on those streets. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 17:50:52 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Rail Blue on Fri Feb 16 17:27:34 2007. Bull. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 16 19:05:54 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Rail Blue on Fri Feb 16 17:27:34 2007. You are assuming that transit is suitable to go anywhere. Well, it isn't. The densities just don't exit everywhere to make it efficient. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by The I Man on Fri Feb 16 22:45:22 2007, in response to A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 9 14:16:58 2007. I've always wanted to take a revisionist history view of the man and his reach. Suppose that his power was very limited and that our past mayors and governors ignored his power brokering tactics.We can imagine: 1- No Jones Beach 2- Rapid transit on the Long Island Expressway 3- A much reduced higway system 4- A Cross Bronx Expressway that didn't tear the Tremont section in half. 5- Parkways with enough clearance for at least buses. And much more! Its a mixed bag IMO. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 23:24:17 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by The I Man on Fri Feb 16 22:45:22 2007. 5- Parkways with enough clearance for at least buses.You mean, no parkways. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Sat Feb 17 10:22:33 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 17:50:52 2007. No, it's what happens in reality when capacity is reduced. Perhaps you should do some reading on the subject. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 17 10:31:26 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Rail Blue on Sat Feb 17 10:22:33 2007. Yeah, and NYC would be crippled as a modern city in this country without it's roads, and without people and goods being mobile.Contrary to the stigma the roads get at rush hour, and some times of the day, the vast majority of the times, they DO move, and lots of vehicles, trucks, buses, cars, goods and people traverse them everyday. A small price to pay for the unfortunate rush hour look of the roads. At most times of the day they do spead up travel throughout the NY Metro area. All that movement could not have been absorbed by local roads. And NYC does not need to be the only city stuck in the 1800's as some here would appear to like it to be. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Feb 17 10:55:01 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Rail Blue on Fri Feb 16 17:27:34 2007. A large number of people would choose not to drive rather than drive on those streets.True only if transit exists as a feasible option which is usually not the case because in many cases it would not be feasible to build or run. What does happen when capacity is reduced in a particular area, traffic is diverted to the next least objectionable alternative routing. Similar to if you block a stream from flowing, the water doesn't just stop, it seeks a new path. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 17 14:24:45 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 16 19:05:54 2007. Correct. Transit can not go from every point A to B like cars and trucks go. Sure, it would be nice if more moved by freight train too, but you still can't have freight moving from every location, to every location. And even if there is a mainn freight place, you still need trucks to send to the final destination.You fill a truck in new Mexico, and unload it in Riverhead. You NEED roads to move those trucks. The entire United States is geared towards that sort of delivery. Those trucks MUST get to their destination, and they WILL use the local roads to do it if a viable expressway/freeway doesn't exist. It's the same with people movement. Why should NY be the only city in the country that can't get it's people moved around on decent roads. Transit has it's necessary use, but roads ALSO have their necessary use. You need a balance of both. It's ridiculous to assume that "Oh there isn't a road, so people won't drive", that's bull. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by The I Man on Sat Feb 17 17:26:17 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 16 23:24:17 2007. No I mean parkways as originally built with park land flanking the roadway. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 17 17:30:31 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by The I Man on Sat Feb 17 17:26:17 2007. Robert Moses built the parkway system in their original manner. RObert Moses built the parkway system beginning in the 1920's. There would be no parkways if he didn't build them. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 17 19:46:54 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 17 17:30:31 2007. So what? They'd be expressways instead. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 17 21:19:08 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 17 19:46:54 2007. So we would have had a Northern and Southern Expressway, a Wantaugh Expressway, Meadowbrook, Belt, Grand Central and also an LIE and a Seaford-Oyster Bay, BQE, and Clearview? And who exactly would have been these Northern and Southern Expressways?And besides, it's nice to be able to drive on roads that you aren't burdened with trucks too. The Expressways have their Trucks and cars, and it's nice to be able to drive on roads where no trucks are allowed. There's a nice balance. There's enough roads for the trucks to traverse, and there's a nice mix of car-only roads too. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 17 21:20:19 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 17 21:19:08 2007. And who exactly would have been these Northern and Southern Expressways?That was supposed to be "Built" not "been". Somehow it became "been". |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Feb 17 22:28:01 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 17 21:19:08 2007. There's enough roads for the trucks to traverse>Not exactly. |
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| (388757) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Feb 17 22:29:12 2007, in response to A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 9 14:16:58 2007. But I know what you're trying to say. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 18 03:23:18 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Feb 17 22:29:12 2007. Yes, that Robert Moses ruined NYC and LI. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 18 07:57:16 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 18 03:23:18 2007. False. |
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| (389122) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 18 12:38:17 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 18 03:23:18 2007. You're wrong, that's not what I was saying. That's not even what Caro said in the Power Broker that was so critical of him. Why don't you read the book first and learn about the man before expressing your thoughts? It's obvious that you haven't. Tell me if I'm wrong. |
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| (389174) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by JerzDevl2000 on Sun Feb 18 15:21:12 2007, in response to A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 9 14:16:58 2007. This is a great thread - not only because of the responses on here, but the fact that I'm utterly obsessed with Robert Moses. He died 5 years after I was born, so I didn't know about him until I read "The Power Broker" in 1999. It was so good, so enthralling, and monumental on many levels, that I read it again a few years later, and I'd get to Caro's trilogy on LBJ if and when I ever got around to it... As I said, there's a ton of responses on here, and I read through a lot of them. Many deal with whether the city would have been better off had the highways not been built, and if the subways would have gotten some of the money used to contruct the "ribbons of asphalt". Caro's book almost makes it impossible to answer the question, only because he's out to get Moses and it's slanted as being against him, IMHO. Personally, I'd like to see the exhibits that are out on Moses before fully formulationg my own opinion, on whether he was good for the city and what someone today could learn, in terms of getting mass transit on the forefront, much like highways were 50 years ago. City development should have been curtailed on the east side and other transit-deficient areas until subway access could be provided, which is one thing that the West Side of Manhattan could certainly follow. No upzoning until the 7 is already U/C. The third water tunnel has been a work in progress for years and greenways are going in on the waterfront but mass transit seems to take a backseat every time! There's so much more I could say about this, and I wish that this board had a format like some of the message boards that I post on, since old threads and posts can get pushed down pretty quickly. Nevertheless, I'm glad for the discussion on this here. A new generation of New Yorkers needs to know who Robert Moses and his legacy was. |
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