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Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 22 10:06:20 2021



Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs

Brooklyn, New York
Interborough Rapid Transit Company

The IRT Livonia Avenue Line opens between Utica Avenue on the Eastern Parkway Line and Junius Street-Livonia Avenue. New stations are opened at Sutter Avenue - Rutland Road, Saratoga Avenue, Rockaway Avenue and Junius Street.



Tuscarora Almanac – November 22, 1940 – The Book of First Runs

Newark, New Jersey
Public Service Coordinated Transport

The Newark City Subway is extended one stop from Heller Parkway to Franklin Avenue.


Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1950 - The Book of Wrecks

Richmond Hill, New York
Long Island Railroad

One of the worst collisions in the history of the Long Island Railroad occurred on Thanksgiving Eve during the PM Rush. Train No. 780, an eastbound Hempstead Branch train had its brakes lock up while on the Mainline in the vicinity of Richmond Hill, New York. It was struck from behind by a twelve car Babylon Express, No. 174. 79 passengers were killed and over 300 injured.The lead car of No. 174 was MP-54 1523 and it smashed into the rear car (No. 1516) of No. 780.

Source: "Next Stop Grand Central" (Boston Mills Press) by Mr. Stan Fischler
Source: Cudahy, Brian J. A Century of Subways (2003) , Fordham University Press




Tuscarora Journal - November 22, 1967 - The Book of Last Runs

Manhattan, New York
New York City Transit Authority
BMT Division

CHRYSTIE STREET MINUS 4

This is Wednesday, November 22, 1967, one day before Thanksgiving and four days before the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway.

Today will be the last day of operation the original “QB Broadway-Brighton Local via Bridge.” (BMT Route # 1 Brighton). The “QB” ran during weekday evenings and midnight hours and at all times on the weekends. It operated between Ditmars Boulevard,

Astoria and Coney Island via the north side of the Manhattan Bridge making local stops. The last train probably operated sometime around 6 AM on Wednesday morning. For the next four days the “QT Broadway-Brighton Local via Tunnel” would run full time.

Today will also be the last day of service between the BMT Southern Section and the Nassau Street Line via the south side of the Manhattan Bridge. Although the Fourth Avenue-Nassau Street trains (M/S)(BMT Route #2 4th Avenue) would operate for one more day on Friday, November 24 they will run via the tunnel on that day.




Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1967 - The Book of Last Runs

Hoboken, New Jersey
Erie-Lackawanna Railroad

Today marks the last day of the Hoboken-Barclay Street Ferry which was operated by the Erie-Lackawanna Railroad and which began service in 1821. Two boats were in service today, both Lackawanna veterans, ELMIRA and LACKAWANNA.

The LACKAWANNA was built at the Thomas S Marvel Shipyard in Newburgh, New York in 1891. She was originally the HAMBURG and later the CHATHAM. She was built as a coal-fired steamboat built was converted to diesel propulsion in 1949. The only railroad-operated ferry on the Hudson to be so converted.

The other boat in service was the ELMIRA which was built in 1905 by the Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company.

The ELMIRA made the last “Official “crossing from Barclay Street to Hoboken, but there were so many last riders that the LACKAWANNA was dispatched for one more trip.

Larry, RedbirdR33




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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by zac on Mon Nov 22 12:07:47 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 22 10:06:20 2021.

It wasn't all that unusual to have the QT run all weekend for work on the bridge even before Chrystie, or maybe because of some earlier work needed. Even today, it happens often enough that trains are running through the tunnel.

I was only twelve at the time and remember this, and knew why. And while I wanted to ride the first train through Chrystie St, well, I was only twelve and couldn't just go out at midnight. I did ride on Sunday and remember the RFW being packed on every train. I rode Monday too and remember it just being chaos. Half the people that operated the system didn't seem to have been informed of the change.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 22 15:20:02 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by zac on Mon Nov 22 12:07:47 2021.

I had just turned 11. My mother was in the city a few weeks earlier and picked up a "New Subway Routes" brochure. Get this: were were in the city on Friday the 24th, but didn't ride on the BMT at all. I did experience my first CPW express dash on a prewar D train - just before the R-32s took over en masse.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 22 17:10:28 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 22 10:06:20 2021.

You neglected to mention that after the PM rush that Wednesday, all Southern Div service operated via the tunnel to permit connecting the Bway Canal St exp tks to the former Nassau St tks. I worked the midnight at Astoria tower Thu and Fri and the midnight at City Hall that Saturday. What stood out was that the QT Brighton Lcls ran almost exclusively with R-32s instead of the usual R-27/30s.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Nov 22 18:06:37 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 22 10:06:20 2021.

Something's always puzzled me about the official explanation for the 1950 Richmond Hill crash. It said that the crash occurred when the engineer of the Babylon train saw an "all clear" signal and increased the train's speed, without realizing that the disabled and unlighted Hempstead train was on the track before the all clear signal. The thing is, because the Babylon train's engineer died in the crash, how would anyone know for sure?

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by AlM on Mon Nov 22 18:26:03 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Nov 22 18:06:37 2021.

Maybe it's just the most plausible explanation.

Presumably they know that the Babylon train speeded up, and where it was at the time. They could then verify that from that position one would see the all clear signal up in front.



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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Mon Nov 22 18:32:34 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 22 10:06:20 2021.

I never knew the Livonia EL opened in sections, I always assumed Utica - New Lots section of the line opened in one shot.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by zac on Mon Nov 22 21:21:58 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 22 17:10:28 2021.

Probably because they were going to become the D on Sunday? Sounds plausible.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Nov 22 21:48:40 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by AlM on Mon Nov 22 18:26:03 2021.

The Richmond Hill crash still might have been avoided if the brakeman of the disabled Hempstead train had walked west along the track with the red warning lantern, as he was supposed to do. Instead, he went onto the track with the lantern but very quickly returned to the train, even though the engineer hadn't blown the train whistle to indicate that the train was back in service and the red warning signal was no longer needed.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Nov 22 22:07:24 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by zac on Mon Nov 22 21:21:58 2021.

That's exactly what happened. Of course, at Astoria, many QT arrivals left as RR's.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Nov 22 22:32:28 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Nov 22 21:48:40 2021.

What a tragedy

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 23 13:57:39 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 22 10:06:20 2021.

Thank you, as always.

So this day in 1967 was the last day any trains ran to/from Nassau Street over the Manny B?

Also, I did not know that any of the Hudson River railroad ferries were running past April 30, 1967. I thought the all went out with the Aldene Plan...

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 23 13:58:51 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 22 15:20:02 2021.

My Mom was 3 months pregnant with me at this time...

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 23 14:02:14 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 22 10:06:20 2021.

I have a follow-on question- what service pattern did the N-Sea Beach use during the Chrystie transition? Did they manage to keep it on the bridge, or did it have to also run through the tunnel for this time?

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 23 14:56:24 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 23 14:02:14 2021.

All Southern Division trains ran via tunnel. New track connections had to be hard railed: the north side tracks of the Manhattan Bridge were tied to the new Chrystie St. connection while the south side tracks were tied into the Broadway line. You can still see the unused tunnel before the turn to Chrystie St.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 23 15:54:32 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 23 13:57:39 2021.



So this day in 1967 was the last day any trains ran to/from Nassau Street over the Manny B?

That is correct. The 4th Avenue-Nassau St Express did run on Friday, November 25 but they ran via the tunnel.


Also, I did not know that any of the Hudson River railroad ferries were running past April 30, 1967. I thought the all went out with the Aldene Plan...

The Jersey Central Railroad's Liberty Street ferry service ended in April with the implementation of the Aldene Plan.

The Erie-Lackawanna's Hoboken Ferry continued to run until November 1967. A sad day indeed.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 23 15:58:39 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 23 14:02:14 2021.



I have a follow-on question- what service pattern did the N-Sea Beach use during the Chrystie transition? Did they manage to keep it on the bridge, or did it have to also run through the tunnel for this time?

The "N" train ran via the bridge up to and including Wednesday November 22. It also ran via the bridge on Friday November 24. On Saturday November 25 the "N" ran via the tunnel along with the QB, RR and T.

I am not sure about Thanksgiving Day. I know that on that day the Brighton Locals ran via the tunnel instead of the bridge. I cannot say how the "N' was running.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by zac on Tue Nov 23 21:32:01 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 23 15:58:39 2021.

I would guess the N also ran via the tunnel, otherwise what would the point be of running the QT. And maybe the T didn't run that Saturday? I don't know. It would have been a lot of trains in the tunnel.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by gbs on Wed Nov 24 03:32:20 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by zac on Tue Nov 23 21:32:01 2021.


And that's a slow-ass tunnel. I haven't been in it since they rehabbed it after Sandy, but prior to that it was timers all the way from Court St to the switch outside Manhattan. Then once the last timer cleared and the t/o could wrap it, you're going up hill, so there's never a chance to pick up any speed.

(It's a completely different experience from the 50+mph 60th St tunnel, also BMT but these two tunnels sure ain't twins.)

Perhaps in 1967 there were fewer timers going into Manhattan.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by gbs on Wed Nov 24 03:45:05 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 23 14:56:24 2021.


If I remember correctly, they installed switches there, so trains to and from the north tracks could still access both tunnels, the original and the new. Later on they removed the switches and hard-tracked the turn to Grand St.

You could see the original tunnel for years. Then they walled it up for years. More recently they removed the wall and you can see it again, with new lights. I don't know why they walled it up or then later removed the wall.



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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by 3-9 on Wed Nov 24 06:01:12 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 23 13:58:51 2021.

I wasn't yet 3 years old, but still far too young to remember. My older siblings remembered that the D train went to East Broadway, but for a long time, I was skeptical!

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Nov 24 06:59:56 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by gbs on Wed Nov 24 03:32:20 2021.

I remember that tunnel used to be very fast, at least Brooklyn-bound.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Nov 24 07:00:42 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 23 15:54:32 2021.

Thank you.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Nov 24 07:02:41 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 23 14:56:24 2021.

Thanks for the info. I thought maybe the N cold have been flagged through the work zone or something. Now I know- the bridge was closed to all train traffic that weekend!.

And yes- I've seen the old tunnel. From the H tracks, you can also see the old connection to Nassau Street.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by bzuck on Wed Nov 24 08:22:31 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by gbs on Wed Nov 24 03:45:05 2021.

My recollection is different. I recall no switches from day one.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Nov 24 08:35:40 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by bzuck on Wed Nov 24 08:22:31 2021.


You're right Barry. There were no switches at the Manahttan end of the bridge. The tracks were hard railed.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Nov 24 09:04:13 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Nov 24 06:59:56 2021.

Yeah, M trains pre 1995 would fly thru it, southbound. Even R16s. Still remember those old mercury lamps.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Nov 24 11:20:41 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by gbs on Wed Nov 24 03:45:05 2021.

I'm just wondering, but could the "powers that be" may be thinking

to use the proposed Atlantic Ave. Shuttle to use a LOOP Around

connecting the LIRR to the Tunnel, thru Broad, Fulton, and Chambers St.

and back Brooklyn's old LIRR Atlantic Terminal, and eventually to the

newly built platforms at Jamaica?

Of course 75 ft. cars, like those serving WAMTA or 67 ft. cars

similar to the famous R-110B's of years gone bye.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Nov 24 14:03:22 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by 3-9 on Wed Nov 24 06:01:12 2021.

I've seen pics of the D train at Smith-9th. Before I knew all this history, I never understood that.

I had seen maps showing the BMT using what are now the IND tracks on the bridge. But I had thought the BMT used the south side tracks, leaving the north side tracks unused from the day the bridge opened until 1967.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by VictorM on Wed Nov 24 15:27:51 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Nov 24 11:20:41 2021.

At one time in the 1960's, as part of the Chrystie project, there were plans to connect the LIRR to the Brighton line under St Felix St, then continue across the Manhattan Bridge south tracks to a duckunder connection to the former Nassau loop tracks under Canal St and continue south to a terminal at the foot of Broad St and the East River where a relocated NY Stock exchange would be built.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by ntrainride on Wed Nov 24 18:39:05 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by VictorM on Wed Nov 24 15:27:51 2021.

now THOSE are plans i'd love to peruse.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by jabrams on Wed Nov 24 22:16:22 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Nov 24 14:03:22 2021.

It was the other way around. The north tracks were always uised, and the south side probably only in rush hour. Out of all the times my parents would drive to Macy's in Manhattan in the 1960's, mostly on Saturday, I never saw a train on the south side of the bridge. That is why the bridge used to raise up about 6 inches on the south side, due to all the trains on the north side.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Nov 25 07:47:51 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by ntrainride on Wed Nov 24 18:39:05 2021.

As would I.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Nov 25 08:29:24 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by VictorM on Wed Nov 24 15:27:51 2021.

That would never happen. The Manhattan Bridge could never handle the weight of the soon to be delivered M1s which would be in service by the time the project was completed.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 25 14:49:07 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Nov 25 08:29:24 2021.

Hell Gate Bridge OTOH wouldn't even break a sweat.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 25 14:53:16 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by jabrams on Wed Nov 24 22:16:22 2021.

I've read the bridge even developed a permanent list on the north side because subway traffic was so much heavier on that side.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Nov 26 08:48:27 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by jabrams on Wed Nov 24 22:16:22 2021.

Yes, I know that now. I'm talking about what I could discern during the pre-internet era.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22

Posted by randyo on Sat Nov 27 02:22:42 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 25 14:53:16 2021.

That would probably be about right and even the increase in service on the other side of the bridge won't correct it, just keep it from getting worse.

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