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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 20:12:49 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 19:57:30 2019.

No, those are terrible real estate men.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 20:13:46 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 19:55:51 2019.

Why should people live where they haven't earned?

Yes, I realize that some might consider my views hypocritical, but they're consistent.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 20:36:16 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 20:13:46 2019.

"Yes, I realize that some might consider my views hypocritical, but they're consistent."

Fair enough.


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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 21:21:26 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 18:57:15 2019.

??

You are responding to things I did not say or even hint at.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Feb 16 21:22:58 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 18:57:15 2019.

It is not the job of just the working class to pay all taxes, and you do not know where they would live. The city has no commuter tax.
They, or any other corporate existence, means use of DOT streets, garbage, recycling, police, fire, emergency services.


Suburban commuters make relatively low use of public services. While they use transit and roads, and a share of public safety services, they don't send their children to city schools, they don't use city social services, they're relatively unlikely to use city hospitals and if they do they have health insurance, and they obviously don't use city housing.


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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 21:23:28 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 19:14:15 2019.

"Nobody wants to burn down society."

You need to get out and meet more people. More of the wrong people, if you want to find the former view expressed ;-)

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by K. Trout on Sat Feb 16 21:35:31 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sat Feb 16 17:29:25 2019.

San Francisco has reportedly been running into this exact problem the last few years, with a dwindling number of service-sector employees because they can't afford to live in SF and aren't paid enough to justify long commutes from more affordable areas far away from the city. I fear NYC is already on that path; but having a major development such as Amazon's campus would have greatly accelerated it.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by K. Trout on Sat Feb 16 21:35:56 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 20:13:46 2019.

So because I earn money in Midtown, I should live in Midtown?

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 21:41:13 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 13:10:59 2019.

"The target smart young people won't stay in a flat, hot, boring locale no matter what"...

Sure they will. As long as they can get a Hamptons rental in the summer. And not to worry about extra traffic on Rt 27, LIRR or Hampton Jitney, they'll just go in & out by helicopter! Friday night out, Sunday night in.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 16 22:19:17 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Feb 16 11:06:13 2019.

They also have not indicated there would be an increase in jobs for their "National Landing" location.

I wonder if they expected something like this from one city or the other, and the "split HQ" was a ruse to see which one would be more welcoming.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 22:39:39 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by K. Trout on Sat Feb 16 21:35:56 2019.

Not what I meant by "earned" and the exact opposite of what I'm saying.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 22:40:32 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 21:41:13 2019.

What are you talking about? Sure they will what?

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 23:02:38 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 22:40:32 2019.

Re-read my post & the post I was responding to. I think my thought was pretty clear.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 23:26:04 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 21:41:13 2019.

Kansas to Hamptons? Probably not. Heli anywhere other than a novelty loop ride more than twice per year, not on $150K they aren't.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 16 23:42:16 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by pragmatist on Sat Feb 16 16:36:11 2019.

Anything still f'ed up is still fair game for improvem,ent.

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Re: a reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 16 23:53:31 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 15:33:03 2019.

This website has been a place to discuss the history and current operations of a SOCIALIST enterprise. The MTA is owned by NYS and operated nominally for the benefit of all residents. That is the basis of socialism. You don't have to like it, but since there are zero transit operations fully funded by the private sector, perhaps a few minutes thinking about why that is are in order.
Name calling when without the very condition you decry there would be NO subway is a bit self deluding.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by The Silence on Sun Feb 17 00:54:40 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 21:41:13 2019.

I think you misunderstood the target employee demographic.

These hipsters are not going on helicopter rides to the Hamptons.

Hell, I have family who own a house out there and even they take the Cannonball.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by ntrainride on Sun Feb 17 01:19:02 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 13:34:52 2019.

geeze.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by pragmatist on Sun Feb 17 06:36:34 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by ntrainride on Sun Feb 17 01:19:02 2019.

1999, one of NAFTA's first....

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 17 10:06:49 2019, in response to Re: a reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 16 23:53:31 2019.

without the very condition you decry there would be NO subway

Absolute and total BS. The IRT and BMT were built by private companies, even though they were swimming upstream against the already-socialistic NYC machine. And what happened when the city took them over, after "competing" with them unfairly with the genuinely socialistic IND? Subway expansion came to a virtual halt, with spurts of very minor expansion (and a lot of shrinkage, especially on the elevated end) occurring now and then.

Without the conditions we rightly decry, there would be a far larger and far cleaner subway system than the dystopian falling-apart relic that is there today.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 17 10:49:59 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Feb 16 10:53:44 2019.

I expect Payless's problems stem from the improved economy. Discount name-brand shoe stores like DSW and Famous Footwear are attracting the crowd that used to go to Payless.

I used to get shoes at Payless, needed a new pair every year. Nikes, New Balance, etc last around 3 years of daily use. Payless is closing because people started realizing in the long term they don't save any money there.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 11:31:50 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 23:02:38 2019.

It wasn't. At all. Where do you think the "hot, flat" city he was talking about is? It's not New York.

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 11:33:18 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 17 10:06:49 2019.

IAWTP.

(shudder)

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 17 12:17:30 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 17 10:06:49 2019.

Wrong.
The subways were built by the City...using private contractors.
City money.
However...privet funds were also used.

It was a PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP...that absorbed the old elevated lines and built subways... (dual contracts,the original el lines...and first subway to the Triboro..)

Its funny.
People are All for "socialism" when its labelled ANYTHING ELSE(like Earmarks or Kickbacks)
In most cases...due to bullshit mental fuckovers that Corporate big wigs, lobbiest,and just evil greedy bastards force feed so called "patriotic nationalist"(knowing that the two are NOT THE SAME)..people have no fucking clue what SOCIALISM IS.

Thanks for driving that point home for me.



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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 17 12:18:38 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 17 10:06:49 2019.

Wrong.
The subways were built by the City...using private contractors.
City money.
However...private funds were also used.You SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY.

It was a PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP...that absorbed the old elevated lines and built subways... (dual contracts,the original el lines...and first subway to the Triboro..)

Its funny.
People are All for "socialism" when its labelled ANYTHING ELSE(like Earmarks or Kickbacks)
In most cases...due to bullshit mental fuckovers that Corporate big wigs, lobbiest,and just evil greedy bastards force feed so called "patriotic nationalist"(knowing that the two are NOT THE SAME)..people have no fucking clue what SOCIALISM IS.

Thanks for driving that point home for me.



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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Ftgreeneg on Sun Feb 17 12:22:46 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 17 10:06:49 2019.

Are there any transit systems ANYWHERE that are 100% private? I mean transit systems that support a whole city? Not small rinky dink operations?

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 12:23:52 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 17 12:17:30 2019.

So you're saying that the city government invested millions of Dollars into a private company that built something useful to the city that provided jobs to people and promoted economic development to boot? Corporate welfare!

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 12:24:33 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Ftgreeneg on Sun Feb 17 12:22:46 2019.

There used to be, but then they used price controls to put a stop to it.

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 17 12:28:33 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 12:23:52 2019.

😂nu

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 17 12:30:20 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 12:23:52 2019.

😂😉

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 17 12:37:52 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 12:24:33 2019.

Closest I've seen is Tokyo, where Tokyo Metro (private) and Toei (city government) "compete". Similarly, JR East and the dozens of non-JR railroads compete. One example, at Narita Airport there's two higher speed trains to the plane run by different companies: Keisei line advertises they're faster and cheaper than JR, JR advertises they're more convenient [with one seat rides] than Keisei.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 17 12:58:02 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by The Silence on Sat Feb 16 01:44:54 2019.

Yeah.
Everything is geared towards making us more dependant on stuff.
Making us more needy.

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Ftgreeneg on Sun Feb 17 13:05:46 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 17 12:37:52 2019.

Interesting. I'm guessing the private railroads are holding up pretty well if it's still able to compete. With the sheer density of the Japanese population it's hard NOT do well as long as said RR are competently run.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Jersey Mike on Sun Feb 17 14:02:30 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 15 15:38:41 2019.

It depends on the opportunity cost. Can the city replace the development with an alternative that pays full taxes? Maybe?

Honestly the city doesn't need Amazon. Half the young people in the country are reflexively moving to New York so it will be nice for some other cities to get the jobs and the blue voting workers that come with them.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 14:15:24 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Jersey Mike on Sun Feb 17 14:02:30 2019.

Good point about the voting. Virginia doesn't really need the voters anymore, but it helps.

We need more young people to move to Texas.

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 17 15:14:15 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Ftgreeneg on Sun Feb 17 13:05:46 2019.

They still get subsidy for capital projects, so they don't fit the
"100% private" stipulation you mentioned. However their operating expenses are paid for in a combination of fares and leveraging their property rights (a lot of shopping malls and hotels are owned by the railroads). They operate coin lockers in every station, which are well patronized to the point where major stations will have thousands of $3-$5 lockers full every day. You can also find whole restaurants and shops within fare control, so anyone intending to go to that store is required to use their RR to get to it, which increases patronage.

When there's pressure to innovate, cool things happen.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 17 15:16:59 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Jersey Mike on Sun Feb 17 14:02:30 2019.

I would have preferred Amazon go to Philly. From their 20 city shortlist, it was the only one that already had the infrastructure to handle an influx of new jobs / residents while also being in a position to benefit from that influx.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 17 15:25:32 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 19:11:33 2019.

Shitty education = shitty jobs, but they are still paying good money.



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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 17 15:31:08 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 19:36:47 2019.

Corporate taxaTION SHOULD BE low TO ATTRACT MORE CORPORATIONS.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Pragmatist on Sun Feb 17 15:31:47 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 17 15:25:32 2019.

A bigger problem is good education doesn't equal good jobs, because we foolishly define jobs by income or status. Work is not good or bad, what people make it out to be might say that. Start with "Rerum Novarum" in 1891, it's a good read.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Pragmatist on Sun Feb 17 15:32:27 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 17 15:25:32 2019.

A bigger problem is good education doesn't equal good jobs, because we foolishly define jobs by income or status. Work is not good or bad, what people make it out to be might say that. Start with "Rerum Novarum" in 1891, it's a good read.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 17 15:39:53 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 17 15:31:08 2019.

Conditional on not deporting jobs or setting up fake HQ's in the Cayman Islands.

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 17 15:41:57 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 17 10:06:49 2019.

The city paid for Dual Contracts for IRT and BMT to continue and expand. That was 15 years before there was an IND system.

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 17 15:56:18 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Ftgreeneg on Sun Feb 17 12:22:46 2019.

Building roads, bridges tunnels, subways, even commuter lines is NOT socialism. It is appropriate public spending.

Socialism is the taking over the means of industry and of public affairs.

ROAR

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 16:05:02 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 17 15:14:15 2019.

It brings a tear to my eye.

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Pragmatist on Sun Feb 17 16:05:14 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 17 15:56:18 2019.

Agree.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 16:08:43 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Pragmatist on Sun Feb 17 15:31:47 2019.

Work is only useful for income or status. Few derive any benefit from work itself.

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 16:10:36 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 17 15:56:18 2019.

It is socialism.

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 16:11:06 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 17 15:41:57 2019.

Corporate welfare!

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Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 17 16:27:41 2019, in response to Re: A reminder about what socialism is, was 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 17 16:11:06 2019.

A corporation to carry out a city service without which the city stops.
IRT/BMT was no Amazon, a retailer, akin to Macy's. Life went on after Gimbels, Korvettes, Alexanders, Woolworths, and A&S vanished.

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