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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Pragmatist on Sat Feb 16 08:20:22 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Feb 16 08:13:48 2019.

Depends which ones, DeBlasio was in favor

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Feb 16 10:53:44 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by The Silence on Sat Feb 16 01:44:54 2019.

The retail world is changing hard and fast. Everything is going online. I havenít bought a physical PC game in about three to five years. Everything has been through Steam or Origin.
Staples, my last job, I give them five years tops before it collapses. It was actually bought out and taken private while I was there and half the stores in the city were closed.


The Staples near me in Suffolk had been basically a ghost town for years, until it finally closed in late 2017.
Though online shopping isn't the only reason for the decline of traditional retail. Payless Shoes is shutting down even though buying shoes online is not particularly common.


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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Feb 16 10:54:57 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 16 07:53:18 2019.

Being a monk is a non-union job, but the benefits are out of this world.


Comment of the Day winner!

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Feb 16 10:58:09 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 15 16:43:51 2019.

Even if every platform has ample trash cans people will continue to throw garbage on the tracks. It's human nature.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Feb 16 11:06:13 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 15 15:38:41 2019.

There's something about Amazon's withdrawal that hasn't gotten much attention. When the company announced that it would not build the LIC facility it did *not* say that it would build the facility elsewhere even though politicians in many many other cities would sell their souls to get it. Instead, there'll be just the single HQ2 in suburban Washington. What I suspect is that Amazon realized that they really needed only one HQ2 and used the political climate as an excuse to cancel the LIC plans.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 11:16:04 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Feb 16 11:06:13 2019.

In addition, why did Amazon fold up like a cheap suitcase & not fight the opposition? Why didn't they push back on the critics & naysayers and stuck to their guns for what they wanted and go ahead with their plans? They could have circled the wagons with their supporters and build their case & reasoning about all those jobs and anticipated revenue to benefit NYC. Instead they just seemed to say "Ok you don't want us...goodbye!
I'don't get that.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 16 11:25:21 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 15 17:41:57 2019.

i'd be happy to see a stapler factory open up there. with a cool big bright sign...

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 16 11:54:39 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 11:16:04 2019.

The union issue. The NY Senate was probably going to insist on Amazon letting unionization of its NY warehouse facilities. That was the real dealbreaker.



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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 16 11:57:03 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Feb 16 11:06:13 2019.

"HQ2" is nonsense anyway. The CEO wasn't going to spend half his time here. It really means "We want to tap into other labor markets for our talent." Well, they already have space in NYC and can rent or buy more.



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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 12:56:13 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Feb 16 10:58:09 2019.

No, it's the nature of people who want to sh-t on the city they live in. Check the subway in Singapore, or Japan or even Russia.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 13:10:59 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 16 08:02:16 2019.

If they bring a critical mass, they might induce some of that labor pool to move. The target smart young people won't stay in a flat, hot, boring locale no matter what, but a metro with some fun & frills plus a big blob of high earning, high spending people will support a lotta zumba classes, interesting food, etc etc.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 16 13:11:07 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 16 07:57:03 2019.

and your proof of the guarantee is?

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 13:16:33 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 06:44:16 2019.

So? Several restaurants closed in the last 2 months in my neighborhood. Same thing, AND zero severance or benefits. I'll bet some of the staff never get their last paycheck. They'll get no vacation pay bc those outfits don't have ANY paid vacation. Those are jobs while you pursue something else, they're not lifetime careers.

Not all jobs are equal - you want a good job, get a skill and take it to someone who needs it, choose to be born into a family with connections, get on the long list for a secure government job ... or get yourself elected to Congress ;-)

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 13:31:07 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 06:45:48 2019.

The terms of the agreement were the Amazon pays ~2.5B less in tax over a limited period in the future compared to what was expected without the tax break. With Amazon not locating in NYC, their HQ2 will pay $0 in tax, the employees will pay $0 in NY State or NYC income tax, and they'll spend $0 on rent, mortgages and stuff. That's not 'nonsense from a corporate running dog of the Kapitalist theocrat patriarchy', it's the offer from uber-progressive Wilhelm and Cuomo.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 13:34:52 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 16 11:25:21 2019.

Swingline moved to Mexico.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 13:35:25 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Feb 16 08:13:48 2019.

Since when are you on the same side as Andrew and The Blaz ?

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 13:37:40 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 13:16:33 2019.

Walmart has plenty of money to behave better.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 13:38:19 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by pragmatist on Sat Feb 16 06:48:53 2019.

B&H photo warehouse shifted to South Jersey due to union issues.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 13:40:01 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 13:31:07 2019.

If Amazon wants to move here, they can pay taxes just like everyone else. They are an expense on various city and MTA services.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 16 13:49:32 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 13:10:59 2019.

And that kind of excitement has kept New York as an attraction to newcomers for almost 400 years.



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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by pragmatist on Sat Feb 16 14:21:16 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 16 08:02:16 2019.

The right to work (for less) laws have little to no impact on the type of employees that would have been employed at a HQ site.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 16 14:46:13 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by pragmatist on Sat Feb 16 14:21:16 2019.

corect. but using the HQ2 giveaways as leverage to upgrade wages in the fulfillment plantations is how things get done sometimes.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 15:33:03 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Pragmatist on Sat Feb 16 08:20:22 2019.

Looks like De Blasio moderated his supposed socialism to good ends. But unfortunately now there are real socialists out there advocating for actual socialism.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 15:34:43 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 16 06:44:00 2019.

Teachers go on strike. Also the WGA

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 15:42:04 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 13:16:33 2019.

Your fallacy assumes that there are enough jobs for people with skills and that all people are capable of obtaining skills.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 15:49:56 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 13:40:01 2019.

Amazon's new employees would be mostly single, non-drug users, not using NYC's incredibly expensive 'homeless' services, etc. They'd also be kicking in plenty to both state and city income tax, rather than getting EIC and other cash credits. Re transit, they'd be paying the MTA fare with no discounts. If the MTA is bummed about having more customers, it says more about the city & state than the new customers.

Option B: If their money isn't green enough, bring in more unskilled workers who will on average pay zero in state and local tax, but will use more services. Then complain that the "big corporations" thus chased out of town "aren't paying their fair share". That is probably a winning strategy at the polls in NYC.

Dunno, but option A looks like the win. I guess I'm not smart enough to understand why B is better.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by pragmatist on Sat Feb 16 16:36:11 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 16 14:46:13 2019.

Those issues should have been broached when they bent over backwards to get them to build the warehouse on SI not a few years later....

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 16 16:45:26 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 15:49:56 2019.

They'd also be kicking in plenty to both state and city income tax, rather than getting EIC and other cash credits. Re transit, they'd be paying the MTA fare with no discounts. If the MTA is bummed about having more customers, it says more about the city & state than the new customers.

The theory is that those high-income earners would push out the lower income residents that have lived in the area for years. The fear was that Amazon would bring even greater gentrification of the area.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 16:49:27 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 16 16:45:26 2019.

Good! Out with the zeroes and in with the heroes!

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 16 16:56:39 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 16:49:27 2019.

Good! Out with the zeroes and in with the heroes!

I tend to oscillate between the harsh notion of a city purging its poorest and weakest to ensure the maximum financial viability for a municipal government, and the notion of a strong social welfare state to ensure that people can remain comfortable in their communities. The problem with New York's current housing regime is that if you're low income, leaving generally doesn't mean going to suburbs, but leaving the metro area entirely for somewhere generally not as nice or ideal. I'd cringe if I had to leave New York because my family and hobbies are here.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sat Feb 16 17:29:25 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 16:49:27 2019.

I don't know how you can have a city without a middle class. Even if you automate to the hilt, you still need people to do the jobs that pay half or less an Amazon HQ2 worker's salary, and those people need to live somewhere.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Feb 16 17:58:26 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 16 02:22:01 2019.

Lol! There is no money to give away.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 16 18:12:43 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 15:42:04 2019.

The US is at FULL EMPLOYMENT.

If you do not have a job, whose problem is that.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 16 18:15:40 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 16 16:56:39 2019.

Eh? Try Richardton, North Dakota! : )

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 16 18:17:02 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sat Feb 16 17:29:25 2019.

Yup... In Aspen CO, none of those hotel or food service workers could live within 60 miles of their work.

And they got SNOW up there and no subway either.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 16 18:18:36 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 16 18:15:40 2019.

Eh? Try Richardton, North Dakota! : )

You made a deal with God...

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Dan on Sat Feb 16 18:22:02 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 11:16:04 2019.

Amazon got to the point where they realized that they were wasting their time dealing with NYC/NYS elected officials. Amazon didn't want to end up in a location where they would be faced with endless protests disrupting their daily operation.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 18:23:56 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 15:42:04 2019.

Life's no picnic and nothing works perfectly. "People with skills" is not a monolithic nor unchanging group; a skill that's highly desirable today may be merely adequate tomorrow, but you are not frozen into one specific skill. If you're a fine diesel mechanic you can xfer most of that to passenger cars, if you're a fine tech on today's cars you can bridge to electrics. If you can't become a software developer you can pull wires, you'll have less stress and more job security than people who can be offshored or replaced by an H1-B.

But if your only skill is showing up then every day you'll be left out of all such jobs AND you won't have a base to build on. Been there myself, it sucked. Eventually I got a small skill courtesy of Bill Gate's outfit, which I built on. Rinse, repeat. That sucked also, until it finally was paying off. Then I got a disease which has no effective treatment, and I now cannot use any of said skills. Life is like that, it was not Jeff Bezos who made it so.

Not all are capable of all skills, some are capable of very few. Not all can be tall, not all can emit good pheromones, not all can be good looking, not all can have natural charm. Let's burn down society because not all are equal!

Pulling and sometimes pushing people into new skills is why we're still competitive, unlike, say, Great Britain or Venezuela. Should the economy be destroyed because I and some others had a hard time of it?

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 18:57:15 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 15:49:56 2019.

Who said anything Amazon would bring in homeless services.

It is not the job of just the working class to pay all taxes, and you do not know where they would live. The city has no commuter tax.
They, or any other corporate existence, means use of DOT streets, garbage, recycling, police, fire, emergency services.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 19:04:12 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 16 11:54:39 2019.

If if it turns out that warehouse facility unionization was the real dealbreaker, then one must rethink the assumption that unions and their influence are in a weakened & impotent state in 2019. For a union issue chasing away billions of $$$ for all who will get a slice of the Amazon pie, Jimmy Hoffa must be spinning in his 55 gal steel drum.
Me thinks something else afoot is going on. Notice Amazon has publicly stated that they are not reopening the search for a new location.
Two things I speculate about the non-search: 1) Amazon has rethought the need for a new location and are using the union issue as an excuse to bail or 2) Amazon still holding out hope that the NYC location problems can be worked out.
As the saying goes, time will tell.


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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 19:11:33 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 16 18:12:43 2019.

At shit jobs.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 19:14:15 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Feb 16 18:23:56 2019.

Nobody wants to burn down society. Except for Trumpenproletariat.

And comparing Great Britain to Venezuela is ridiculous, unless you watch Fox Propaganda Channel. Although Brexit voters are another group that want to burn down society.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 19:14:44 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Dan on Sat Feb 16 18:22:02 2019.

LOL!

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 19:15:39 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 19:04:12 2019.

Yes. The official line is bullshit.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 19:16:01 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 16 18:12:43 2019.

Full employment still means people looking for jobs can't get them.

Their qualifications are not a "perfect match" for what's available. So they get H1-B's offshore. There is also such a thing as over-qualified. Hiring manager knows person will quit and will not bother to hire.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 19:16:24 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 19:16:01 2019.

Good post.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Feb 16 19:25:33 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 18:57:15 2019.

But as well as boost local economy which brings in more taxes

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 19:36:47 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Feb 16 19:25:33 2019.

Multiplier effect of employees using local retailers. Incremental sales tax collection is all the city would get from that. There still needs to be corporate taxation.

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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 19:55:51 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 16 16:49:27 2019.

"Good! Out with the zeroes and in with the heroes!"

Sounds a tad cold blooded, no??


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Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 19:57:30 2019, in response to Re: 10 things NYC should do now that Amazon HQ2 deal is over, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 16 19:55:51 2019.

Trump and Jared would be proud.

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