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| Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station (1384286) | |
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| (1385083) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 10 08:13:45 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 07:12:04 2016. Such would allow for more long-term operational flexibility and allow for such a Broadway-Brooklyn line to Canarsie to continue even after the (L) tunnel shut down ended while the (L) can better serve the much more heavily traveled portion of the line.Not quite. Only CBTC equipped trains can operate on any portion of the line between 8th Ave and Rockaway Pkwy. The detection of a single non-CBTC train on the tracks forces the auxiliary wayside system (AWS) into operation. This was designed to handle only 3 tph, enough for work train operation during the midnight hours and no more. It's a string of absolute blocks between switches. Operational flexibility on the Canarsie Line was eliminated when the line's original block system was removed as the last stage of CBTC implementation. |
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| (1385084) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 08:39:49 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 10 08:13:45 2016. As noted elsewhere, it was mentioned the signals are still in place on the Atlantic Avenue-Canarsie portion of the (L) so that non-CBTC trains can get to the yard at the end for washes from what was mentioned.That was why I said what I did. What they would likely have to do if necessary is re-install signals on the (L) between the flyover and Rockaway Parkway for this purpose, which they appear to now have two years to do. |
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| (1385087) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 09:09:17 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 21:31:18 2016. Meanwhile, it's fun to speculate. |
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| (1385092) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Feb 10 10:41:29 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by BLE-NIMX on Tue Feb 9 22:31:35 2016. Not at all. |
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| (1385093) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Feb 10 10:43:28 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 09:09:17 2016. I know.....2 more years of speculation and repeating the same ideas over and over. As if NYCT would take some of the suggestions made here.Triple Yikes. |
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| (1385096) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 10 10:52:19 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 9 16:55:47 2016. Running time between Bedford Ave and Union Sq is 6 minutes. Add a minute for changing direction and it comes to 7 minutes each way or 14 minutes round trip. That bumps it up to 4 tph.If this were an MTA press release, it would be hailed as a 33% increase in service. Of course, this assumes that operations could keep move that 2nd train from 8th Ave to Union Sq in time. It also assumes that the tower operator is sufficiently alert to throw the switch the instant the 8th Ave bound train clears it. |
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| (1385098) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by sloth on Wed Feb 10 10:54:03 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 9 16:47:34 2016. One minute to change ends? Maybe with an operator at each end... |
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| (1385100) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 10:58:55 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Feb 10 10:43:28 2016. As if NYCT would take some of the suggestions made here.Hey, you never know. They implemented the M up 6th Ave. :) Actually, within the next 2 years, someone here will get it exactly right. We just don't know who. |
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| (1385104) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 11:08:35 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 19:34:41 2016. Trains come in to 3 Av on the single track that is in use, possibly crossing over between there and USQ, then come in to USQ and discharge all passengers.It's 4000 feet from USQ to 8 Av. That holds 8 trains on each track west of USQ. These are trains without passengers so you can run red signals at a few mph to stack them in tightly. You can hold another 4 trains on the unused track between 3rd Ave and 1st Ave (the track whose tunnel is being worked on), and the final 2 trains within USQ station itself. That's 22 trains. The track between USQ and 3 Av is held clear for switching maneuvers. I'm sure it's unrealistic and cumbersome but it's not impossible. |
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| (1385108) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Feb 10 11:23:30 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 10 08:13:45 2016. Then use CBTC-equipped trains for trains running to/from Rockaway Pkwy that go onto the Jamaica el at Broadway Junction. It must be possible to shut off the on-board CBTC equipment, otherwise we wouldn't have R143s running in revenue service on the J now. There will be spare R143s available when the tubes are shut down. How difficult could it possibly be to shut off/turn on the CBTC equipment on trains switching between the Jamaica and Canarsie lines between Broadway Junction and Atlantic? |
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| (1385110) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 11:33:25 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by sloth on Wed Feb 10 10:54:03 2016. The average walking speed is 4.54 fps (105s for 8 cars, 132s for 10 cars). So it would take definitely require two operators. That said a 15 minute interval in Manhattan would lead to major crowding until riders realize the L isn't an option. Better to force them to other routes beforehand. |
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| (1385111) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 11:39:59 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 17:01:30 2016. How would the last 18 trains platform at 8th Ave? Will we couple up and make the passengers walk? That seems unworkable even if you can turn quickly enough and get them out of the way you can't unbalance the service since all of the trainsets will be on one side of River. Then of course there will be a BIE. |
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| (1385112) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 10 11:54:42 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by sloth on Wed Feb 10 10:54:03 2016. Maybe with an operator at each end...Let's differentiate between physical and management constraints. The Flushing Line used to turn 36 tph at Times Sq. The physical constraint was brake recharge time. They had an operator waiting to enter the train while the trains were entering. The management constraint would be waiting for that operator to walk the length of the train before recharging the brakes. A large number of people will be inconvenienced regardless what plan is implemented. The public will be very angry, if a substantial part of the inconvenience is due to management or work rule constraints. |
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| (1385113) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 11:59:58 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 11:39:59 2016. How would the last 18 trains platform at 8th Ave?They wouldn't. Obviously if you run 20 consecutive trains into Manhattan through a single tunnel, and then bring them all back out again, service stops and all passengers are discharged at USQ. |
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Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 12:03:38 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 19:22:37 2016. That's 10 trains... |
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| (1385121) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 12:16:54 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 12:03:38 2016. times 2 tracks |
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| (1385122) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Feb 10 12:19:56 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Feb 10 11:23:30 2016. When they had the G.O where the L runs every 24 minutes between Caransie and the Junction, one time it terminated on the J line platform at the Junction so its possible for the train crew to turn off the CBTC on a train set if necessary. |
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| (1385124) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Feb 10 12:23:23 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 15:58:04 2016. Exactly the same.way they did it with.any short turn train...use the yard leads...relay...then pull into the southbound/westbound track headed towards the City of.Manhattan. |
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| (1385125) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Feb 10 12:23:23 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 15:58:04 2016. Exactly the same.way they did it with.any short turn train...use the yard leads...relay...then pull into the southbound/westbound track headed towards the City of.Manhattan. |
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| (1385127) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 10 12:29:10 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Feb 10 11:23:30 2016. Perhaps my explanation wasn't clear.CBTC-equipped trains can run anywhere without affecting other trains on any line. Non-CBTC trains can run anywhere. However, if non-CBTC trains are anywhere on the Canarsie Line, the signal system will revert to the AWS mode. This mode can handle only 3 tph. There will be spare R143s available when the tubes are shut down. How many? The following is left as an exercise for the reader. There are 212 R143's and 32 R160's that are CBTC equipped. 24 trainsets, comprising 192 cars are required for peak am operation. The rest are spares, some of which might be undergoing maintenance. The running time from Canarsie to 8th Ave is 38:30. The running time from Canarsie to Bway-Jct is 10:00. The running time from Bway-Jct to Myrtle-Wyckoff is 6:30. The running time from Myrtle-Wyckoff to Bedford is 13:00. |
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| (1385129) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Feb 10 12:40:05 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 10 12:29:10 2016. Canarsie to Broadway Junction retains its Wayside signalling. There is no 3 TPH limit there.(also, there are 64 CBTC R160s) |
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| (1385132) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 12:57:09 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 12:16:54 2016. Ah gotcha, I thought we were talking about a single track through service to 8A14. |
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| (1385134) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 13:00:00 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 11:59:58 2016. As I said in the other place I thought we were still discussing a single track through service to 8A14. I don't see the merit to running a service, but you acknowledge it's unrealistic though it is technically feasible. |
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| (1385137) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Feb 10 13:29:36 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 11:08:35 2016. I would like to know how NYCT feels about this. |
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| (1385138) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Feb 10 13:30:36 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 17:01:30 2016. What is the running time between Bedford Ave and 1st Ave? |
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| (1385143) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 10 13:59:17 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 07:12:04 2016. The only good excuse I can think of to rebuild Atlantic Ave is if it can become the junction for another service again. |
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| (1385144) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 14:08:50 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Feb 10 13:29:36 2016. The whole idea of sending 20 trains into Manhattan and then 20 back out on a single track has far greater problems with the laws of physics than minor details about how to store trains up close against each other. :)I suspect the crowd control problems on the Brooklyn side would be totally unmanegable. Besides, you can get almost as many tph if you bring 10 in and then 10 back out as if you do 20. |
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| (1385145) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 10 14:09:47 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by The silence on Fri Feb 5 11:00:38 2016. But unless you're going to skip Essex street, which will cause a revolt, the bulk of them are going to head for 6th Ave trains regardless. |
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| (1385146) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Feb 10 14:30:55 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 10 12:29:10 2016. That's 244 cars in total, although I believe four cars out of the 212 R143s are permanently out of service due to a crash in Canarsie Yard that caused significant damage to one of them. So it's really 240 cars. Even so, 192 is what they need for the present, full-length L service. They won't need that many when the tubes shut down. If they shut down just one tube at a time, they'll have to run significantly reduced service in both directions due to single-track operation between Bedford and 3rd. If they shut both down at the same time, they would be unable to operate L service in Manhattan because they would have no way of getting trains in and out of the 14th St section with no track connection to any other line in Manhattan. Either way, subway cars will be freed up. |
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| (1385147) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Michael549 on Wed Feb 10 14:37:30 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 06:46:54 2016. Wally - your words:I'm assuming both tubes will be shut down during this. Until we hear otherwise, that is the assumption I'm working under. (Agreed) Even if one tube remains open, you'd STILL have the issue of holding trains all over the place on both ends, which still presents a big problem even if you can still do some Manhattan service. (Kind of Agree) Mike |
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| (1385148) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 10 14:40:23 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Feb 10 14:30:55 2016. Either way, subway cars will be freed up.Never mind the estimates. How many cars are freed up? :=) |
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Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 14:40:40 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by The silence on Fri Feb 5 11:00:38 2016. Right now there are 12 tph to downtown and 9 tph to midtown over the WB. The overwhelming majority of riders diverted to the L will be wanting midtown. So at least 2/3 of any added trains should go up 6 Av. The 6 Av route has connections to the 6, 1/2/3, N/Q/R, and 7. |
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| (1385150) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 14:53:12 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Feb 10 13:30:36 2016. 5 or 6 minutes. But you can't turn trains until USQ. |
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| (1385151) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 14:53:52 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 14:53:12 2016. I mean the first crossover is between 3 Av and USQ. |
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| (1385167) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 15:30:08 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 10 14:40:23 2016. With a roundtrip time of 70 minutes (30 minutes each way plus turn time) between Canarsie-Bedford-Canarsie and using a nominal 12tph since Bedford isn't a perfect terminal and fewer people will ride; You need 14 trains---112 cars---to run things comfortably. Even with a spare train and cars in Maintenance (assuming 30% are unusable for one thing or another) you have at least 6 sets to distribute. |
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| (1385177) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Michael549 on Wed Feb 10 16:21:45 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 15:30:08 2016. As one "removes" L-trains for some other purpose, for example "proposed Canarsie Trains via the J Line", the remaining trains have to pick up the slack especially at the western Brooklyn stations with their increased ridership! This would easily create longer wait times for the crowded remaining L-trains that have to attempt to get these riders to the transfer stations. Just how much backward or forward riding just to make a transfer large numbers of riders will have to do is an unknown? In any case it will still be large numbers of folks traveling about for transfers.Shuttle buses at every station may reduce some of the ridership on the platforms. Just how much of the subway ridership switches to shuttle bus usage for the first part of their journey is an "un-known". In the past the slow moving shuttle buses has meant longer travel times and involve the need to transfer to a subway further down the road. Some folks have not forgotten that very awful entire period of frequent L-train shut-downs due to the installation of CBTC - where major portions of the L-train was repeatedly bus substituted and shuttled? The lines, non-frequent trains, wait times, transfers to buses were horrendous. The 14th Street Tunnel closure will involve the rush hours, unlike the CBTC installation. Then shut-downs occured weekend upon weekend often with mid-day and over night shut-downs to content with - for weeks on end! Now some folks act as if, "shuttle buses" are some whiz-bang solution. The walking transfers to between the G-train and the J-M-Z trains may help some riders, but how many is an open question. One would still have to take the remaining less frequent over-crowded L-trains to the G-train, wait for the G-train, then take the G-train to the station for a walking transfer, and re-enter the subway for the J-M-Z train! Increasing the wait times for over-crowded L-trains riders helps how? How does reducing service of the L-trains at the higher ridership western stations help those riders? Can L-train riders transfer to A, C, J and Z trains at the Broadway Junction station? Of course they can, they have been doing that for decades, and will continue to do so. Millions have used those stairs and escalators millions of times - it is not a big deal. Of course that transfer station is very important and helpful with any closure of the 14th Street Tunnels. Will the creation of a "proposed Canarsie Trains via the J Line" route help L-line riders at the higher ridership western Brooklyn stations? So far the answer is not looking like a slam-dunk positive! Of course, create shuttle buses and enhance service on existing buses, create a limited bus direct to/from Bedford Avenue & Manhattan, and strongly push riders to transfer to the A, C, E, 7, G, J, M, Z lines - with as much information and community involvement as possible. All of that is appropriate! All of the above will real understandable schedules and estimates of the travel times involved for each method. Large numbers of people will be inconvenienced regardless what plan is implemented, in my view - creating proposals that increase wait times and crowded-ness on the remaining L-trains is not a solution. The public will be very angry, as their travel times, and "around - aboutness increases" to very high levels. Does anyone really think that current N-train riders are "happy" or "thrilled" with their all hours round-about trips on the Sea Beach line? Think again! Mike |
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| (1385178) | |
Re: Broadway-Brooklyn Line after (L) tunnel closes |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 16:30:34 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 14:40:40 2016. My plan has ALL added trains going up 6th avenue during such a shutdown, most likely with the (M) at peak times doing 8-9 TPH to 71st-Continental and my "Orange (T)" doing 6-7 TPH at all times (19/7 with late nights 3 TPH) to 96th Street and 2nd AvenueDoing it this way likely reduces the number of trainsets needed (even if by only 1-2) and has the added benefit of giving UES riders direct 6th Avenue Service (as well as Broadway-Brooklyn riders direct midtown service 24/7). |
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| (1385179) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 16:33:12 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Michael549 on Wed Feb 10 14:37:30 2016. Exactly.There are really no good solutions. I'm just looking for the ones that take the most pressure off the (G) and (L) and spreads that over a number of different routes. |
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| (1385181) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 16:36:09 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 14:08:50 2016. Right:This is why what I would do is to have two additional services noted (my re-routed (C) and "Orange (T)" trains) serving Broadway-Brooklyn. There are going to be major logjams no matter what with no real good solution. The idea is to spread out the pain are far as possible to avoid where too many people are all in one area. |
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| (1385182) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 16:42:56 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 10 13:59:17 2016. Which is EXACTLY why I would do it, actually to six tracks because the Snediker Avenue platform could then be used as a terminal for a short-turn (L) most of the time or for storage and the others can be used as through and/or terminal tracks depending on which services would go where. |
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| (1385184) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Feb 10 17:01:03 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Michael549 on Wed Feb 10 16:21:45 2016. Increased wait times west of Myrtle-Wyckoff may end up being a factor anyway, depending on how MTA decides to do the shut down. |
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| (1385197) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 19:03:34 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Feb 10 17:01:03 2016. A train every 5 minutes is better than other lines can do at any time, let alone during a severe disruption. Since the segment between Myrtle and Lorimer is the most isolated short turns at Myrtle can boost service there if it isn't enough, but I doubt that. The question is can the G train cope with all the people being dropped off at Lorimer, the answer is of course, no. The G would have to go to 8 cars at least during rush hour. |
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| (1385200) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Feb 10 19:52:12 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 19:03:34 2016. Naturally the G will boost service and consists when the L work commences, especially if it's done in rush hour. The problem is the transfer stairway is at the extreme north end of the G platform. A challenge is going to be for passengers to spread out the entire 600' or 480' on the platform, according to the length of G train. |
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| (1385201) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 20:22:55 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Feb 10 19:52:12 2016. Depends how wide the platform is. Northbound 4/5/6 at Union Square is heavily used, 45 trains come in per hour, not a hugely wide platform, and all stairways are in the front half of the platform.Nevertheless, passengers do make their way all the way to the back, and plenty of people load the last few cars. |
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Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 23:15:20 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Jsun21 on Wed Feb 10 19:03:34 2016. This is why I would truncate the (L) to Broadway Junction during this time (there are switches coming out of the portal that allow this) and run a direct service to Manhattan via Broadway-Brooklyn (whether that is my re-routed (C) or the other suggested one labeled (K)) from Canarsie. Doing that would allow the (L) to concentrate on the much busier and more isolated portion of the line. |
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| (1385208) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 23:18:35 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Feb 10 19:52:12 2016. Which is also why I would during this period add three new OOS transfers between the (G) and (C) at Lafayette Avenue, the Broadway-Brooklyn line where those cross with the (G), and between the (G) and 2/3/4/5/B/D/N/Q/R and by then possibly (W) at Atlantic-Barclays. The idea would be to encourage passengers who must do the (L) to the (G) to whenever possible take the (G) the other way to the Atlantic Complex and use that to get to Manhattan even if it takes longer. |
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| (1385209) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by sloth on Thu Feb 11 01:39:17 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 10 11:54:42 2016. It would require 3 crews to keep this one train going back and forth, minimum. So it's not efficient in terms of moving passengers, or manpower. Not really good for the equipment either.The public will be very angry about this whole L train situation, period. Whatever the MTA decides to do. I don't know that negotiations between labor and management are going to become public knowledge, or tip the scales much. Hell, all I was thinking at first about the one-minute turns is, when are those poor guys going to pee? |
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Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 11 18:49:38 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by AlM on Wed Feb 10 14:40:40 2016. Hmm...when the new service began,it seemed as if there was Way more service heading to midtown than lower Manhattan.Perhaps a slight increase is in order for uptown trains(3 tph peak periods)...since its pretty obvious that midtown is a more desirable/needed destination.. Its also pretty obvious that the uptown routing should be a 24 hour service. |
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| (1385231) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Feb 11 18:58:26 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 11 18:49:38 2016. Hmm...when the new service began,it seemed as if there was Way more service heading to midtown than lower Manhattan.The schedule says 8 rush hour Ms and 12 J/Zs. I take the 6 Av line sometimes and the 8 Ms seems about right. Don't know how many J/Zs there really are. |
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| (1385233) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Feb 11 21:49:50 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 16:42:56 2016. No. What I mean by another service, I mean a completely different branch line, like the Fulton el, not a shortened version of an existing line. If they do rebuild it for the reasons you specify, it will likely NOT be a restoration of the Atlantic Ave station we all remember, but instead an elevated train yard like at Van Cortlandt. After all, why waste space keeping old platforms (esp. the Snediker Ave portion) when they can put in extra storage tracks? |
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