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| Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing (1014150) | |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 18 20:43:17 2010, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Dec 18 20:31:00 2010. North Dakota. No Registry Book. No Voter Registration.
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Sat Dec 18 21:13:08 2010, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 18 20:41:26 2010. Tee Hee Hee. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 18 21:31:56 2010, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Dec 18 19:05:46 2010. LOL at you, pussy-boy nutjob truther. Probably a one-punch knockout you are. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Dec 18 23:07:20 2010, in response to Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Dec 16 10:16:19 2010. Good for them. Incompetent cops = payday.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 18 23:20:26 2010, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Dec 17 20:56:33 2010. I saw this incident firsthand...didn't think that it would lead to a lawsuit though. I can't imagine why. You are usually right on the mark... |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 19 00:38:25 2010, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 17 18:39:02 2010. I've never heard of needing government ID to vote as a matter of course. Such a thing would probably be unconstitutional; any government-issued ID (driver's license, passport, or otherwise) typically requires payment of a fee. If the ID is then required to vote, any fee required for the ID becomes a de facto poll tax which is illegal under the 24th Amendment. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 19 00:52:09 2010, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 16 17:22:15 2010.  Why not show your ID when the cop asks for it?If you show ID, the cop will take it; at that point, he can detain you indefinitely while still staying in a legal gray area simply because most people would be reluctant to leave without their ID, and any cop who tries to enforce nonexistent bans on photography will probably abuse that loophole for all it's worth. Furthermore, if you show ID, the cop can put you on some list (ranging from submitting your name to a federally-maintained "terror watch" list, like the "no-fly" list, to putting your name on the list of all people who were ever stopped which was maintained by the NYPD until a court ordered them not to. If this happens multiple times, you could end up in a lot of trouble; while no number of false charges can ever add up to a single legitimate charge, most people don't understand this. The so-called "where there's smoke, there's fire" thinking will come into play, and people will assume that if you were stopped multiple times, you must be doing something wrong, even if each individual case was resolved undeniably in your favour. My "reputation" on SubChat is an example of this; even though I was undeniably in the right and the cop was undeniably in the wrong in every individual case, some people have decided to assume that the number of individual cases, taken collectively, prove that I must be doing something wrong somehow. On the other hand, if you don't identify yourself, you will probably be a lot better off. You can walk away at any time without leaving anything valuable behind. The cop can't give you a summons or put you on a list because he doesn't know who you are! If you firmly refuse to show ID, his only choices are to let you go or to arrest you outright and take you down to the station— and while many cops believe (rightfully, I'm afraid) that they can get away with detaining someone on a platform without cause, or even issuing a bullshit summons, they typically realise that a full arrest-and-booking made on no basis whatsoever will almost certainly lead to an expensive lawsuit and possibly even some form of consequences for themselves personally. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 19 06:43:20 2010, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 18 20:42:28 2010. Doubt it. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Dec 19 11:44:35 2010, in response to Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Dec 16 10:16:19 2010. I'm glad Steve and Mike are suing. By doing that and by bringing it to the attention of the media, they may be able to finally shine a light on cops who feel like getting on a power trip by harassing and arresting photographers. I hope these five cops in particular are made to pay up for overstepping their bounds. Maybe by making an example out of them, others will get the message that you don't just arrest someone to meet a quota or because you just felt like it.In no way does this cloud my view of the NYPD as I have friends and relatives who are policemen. They do their jobs and they don't harass or arrest people in order to fill quotas. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by BMTLines on Mon Dec 20 18:35:45 2010, in response to Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Dec 16 10:16:19 2010. NETWORK WORLD mentions the incident in this report entitled "Photographers Are NOT Terrorists"It links back to SUBCHAT! I agree with the quote from Bruce Schneier in the article: Bruce Schneier posted an essay called, Close the Washington Monument. In it, he wrote, "The empty monument would symbolize our war on the unexpected, -- our overreaction to anything different or unusual -- our harassment of photographers, and our probing of airline passengers. It would symbolize our "show me your papers" society, rife with ID checks and security cameras. As long as we're willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety, we should keep the Washington Monument empty." |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 22 00:35:22 2012, in response to Chris R. Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by RockParkMan on Thu Dec 16 17:31:47 2010. This post gets crazier as each year passes. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 00:40:12 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 22 00:35:22 2012. Did they ever do the closing scene on this one with the disposition of the case so we can roll credits and theme?
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 00:44:38 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 00:40:12 2012. Oh ... and for those who never got Jack Webb's original inside joke from the early 1950's, he was addicted to Quaaludes. That's where the 714 came from. :)
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by chuchubob on Wed Aug 22 07:49:38 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 00:40:12 2012. Steve got a small settlement.To me, 714 refers to Babe Ruth's major league home run total. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Aug 22 08:10:17 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 00:44:38 2012. From Wikipedia:In My Name's Friday, the book-length history of Dragnet by TV commentator Micharl J. Hayde, it was asserted that Friday originally wanted the badge number to be "777," tripling the lucky number 7, but decided instead to add the last two digits together to get "14," thus making the badge number "714." |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Aug 22 08:15:16 2012, in response to Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Dec 16 10:16:19 2010. Assuming the facts have been accurately reported, why are the police harrasing people who are acting espressly legally?Why, after all the court cases and publicity, are the NYPD higher-ups allowing this? Considering how often it seems ot be happening, it seems to me that operating orders (probably unwritten) actually encourage this. Outrageous- not just from a railfan;s point of view, but also as a free society- the police enforce the law- they're not supposed to make it up. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Aug 22 08:17:01 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by BMTLines on Fri Dec 17 13:31:25 2010. They seem to think that they are the law unto themselves. Considering how much this hapens, I think the bosses are encouraging it. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Aug 22 08:20:14 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Randyo on Thu Dec 16 16:26:35 2010. I agree. Punitive damages againt the NYPD as an organization will ultimately be paid by taxpayuers like me, who are just as vulnerable to police abuse. In effect, I'd (and all NYC residents) would be paying the award.Now, an award collected from the officers PERSONALLY would really teach a lesson here. But I don't think that will happen. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Aug 22 08:22:03 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu Dec 16 12:44:56 2010. Correct. I've predicated my other statementsin this read on the premise that the complaint is true. If the photographers did something wrong, like trespassing or interfering with operations, that changes things a lot. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Aug 22 08:26:34 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu Dec 16 12:57:11 2010. I have cops (some NYPD, some other) in my circle of friends and family members. Let's just say that they're an "interesting" bunch, and I wouldn't want to get on the seriously wrong side of any of them.Most brag about the damage they've done to people. While in the stories they tell, the subjects of their wrath deserved it, it's still a bit disconcerting to have coffee with someone while he enthusiastically describes sticking a shotgun in someone's face (he didn't shoot) or seems thrilled at all the people he's hit. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 11:34:42 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by chuchubob on Wed Aug 22 07:49:38 2012. According to Frank Comstock at NBC, it was an inside joke about his deal with LAPD back in the radio days to avoid time in the clink. I've heard the Babe Ruth story as well, but supposedly that wasn't it.Glad to hear Steve made out. That episode sounds kinda excessive. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 11:35:57 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Dave on Wed Aug 22 08:10:17 2012. Yeah, just saw that on wiki. All I can tell you is that that wasn't the story I heard. Webb was an interesting character and had some "issues." |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Aug 22 14:31:45 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 11:35:57 2012. From what I read, Webb really wasn't acting per se. It seems that the Friday character was actually Jack Webb's personality both on and off stage. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Aug 22 14:38:33 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Aug 22 08:15:16 2012. I know that cops are not supposed to make up laws as they go along but that's exactly what they do in many cases. When my next door neighbor was harassing my mother and me and vandalizing my house, the cops used any excuse possible to avoid arresting the neighbor claiming that his acts were not "criminal" when in fact according to the DA's office, they were crimes and the police should have taken actions which they failed to do. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 14:49:26 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by randyo on Wed Aug 22 14:31:45 2012. When I was working for NBC for a summer relief temp, I talked to a company musician that knew him from back in the radio days. In the beginning, he was one hyper puppy. When he started "pilling out" he mellowed a bit. By the time he did his first TV show, he had hit the stride we all knew since. He was supposedly QUITE annoying at first.When the lights went out though, he chilled so they said ... supposedly a real nice guy, but a little "funny" ... |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 22 14:51:02 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 11:35:57 2012. He was a control freak and had an interesting love life. Other than that, I don't know of any issues. Race-wise, he was for integration before it was cool (probably because he was an avid jazz fan his entire life). He was very clannish and worked almost exclusively with a small group of close friends on most of his projects, which explains why you see so many similar faces on Dragnet, Adam-12 and Emergency. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 15:02:39 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 22 14:51:02 2012. Yep ... all true according to what I heard. He also played trumpet and rather well ... them zany 1940's hop heads. :) |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 22 15:20:55 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 15:02:39 2012. And for all the charges that he was pro-establishment, his shows in the 60's and 70's were remarkably progressive for their time. Adam-12 was one of the first cop shows to have more black actors portraying other cops than they had playing criminals. "Elegy For A Pig" should be required viewing for any virulent cop hater AND for any aggressive cop defender. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 22 15:30:12 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 22 15:20:55 2012. Yep ... knew nothing about him before having lunch with that musician that worked with him back in the 50's ... he's the one who told me about the pill thing and his little gag with the 714 on the badge and its meaning. He said Webb was a "hop head jazz musician like the rest of us." :) |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 22 20:18:47 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Aug 22 08:20:14 2012. It should be charged against their budget in the form of budget cut-only, and if that means furloughs, so be it. Then it will hit home when they abuse the law, they and only will see the consequences. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Aug 22 20:22:56 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 22 20:18:47 2012. Yup and where do you make those cuts? What neighborhoods do you punish? What people do you not serve? I'm not disagreeing with you. Just wondering where you'd make the cuts |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Nilet Too on Wed Aug 22 20:46:25 2012, in response to Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Dec 16 10:16:19 2010.  What? How come the NYCLU took that case but didn't take my case when the exact same thing happened to me??! I had to handle my suit pro se. I'm not saying I didn't get a good settlement, just that it took more effort and I probably didn't do as well. Plus, I'd have loved to show up at the TAB with three lawyers in tow; it might have saved me the second trip.Sorry to necropost again but this thread's already been dug up anyway. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Jon Bell on Thu Aug 23 06:10:57 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by chuchubob on Wed Aug 22 07:49:38 2012. Steve got a small settlement.I can't find any reference to it anywhere. The most recent Google hits I can find for a few different combinations of keywords are from Nov-Dec last year, right after the lawsuit was filed. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 23 08:22:32 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Train Dude on Wed Aug 22 20:22:56 2012. Where do you make any cuts when they happen ? Where they do the least damage. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 25 14:39:15 2012, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 23 08:22:32 2012. Why? If you cut where they do the most damage, you can justify a funding increase... |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 18 17:53:18 2021, in response to Re: Chris R. Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Dec 17 19:31:42 2010. And you compare this with the Democratic and Socialist Political Parties?The national socialists got their racial ideas from the Democratic Party. And a decade down the road (aren't you glad we have an OTChat now?), the Democrats are indeed proving to have such proclivities. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Dave on Tue May 18 21:12:54 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 18 17:53:18 2021. Talk about necroposting...sheesh! |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue May 18 21:27:42 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Dave on Tue May 18 21:12:54 2021. Obviously, someone has nothing better to do 🙄 |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue May 18 22:00:33 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Dave on Tue May 18 21:12:54 2021. Still fun to see some of the names involved in the thread. I wonder how it ultimately turned out. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue May 18 22:26:49 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Dave on Tue May 18 21:12:54 2021. What is wrong with necroposting?It's interesting to revisit some threads. In 2021 this photography interaction would not happen. Times have changed alot. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 18 22:44:49 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Train Dude on Tue May 18 22:00:33 2021. Interesting indeed. Only a few who posted then post now. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue May 18 23:10:56 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Fred G on Sat Dec 18 23:07:20 2010. The cops weren't incompetent.That would suggest they don't know the law. They most likely knew but didn't care. These interactions used to go one way-the cops way so they had nothing to lose initiating contact. I think many like the w1n of getting someone to submit and put their camera away apologetically asking not to get a ticket. And if it escalated to verbal judo the cop uses other tactics for the status w1n. Turn it into obstruction, revisiting arrest, etc. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 19 01:01:59 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by LuchAAA on Tue May 18 23:10:56 2021. Resisting not revisiting arrest. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by NJCL2308 on Wed May 19 01:23:33 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Train Dude on Tue May 18 22:00:33 2021. The suit was thrown out |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by NJCL2308 on Wed May 19 01:24:58 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by NJCL2308 on Wed May 19 01:23:33 2021. https://www.rcfp.org/new-york-judge-says-id-law-used-arrest-photographers-unconstitutiona/ |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Dave on Wed May 19 07:50:53 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by LuchAAA on Tue May 18 22:26:49 2021. Necroposting = too much free time on your hands. |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed May 19 09:03:21 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by NJCL2308 on Wed May 19 01:24:58 2021. Thank you |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed May 19 15:41:05 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Dave on Wed May 19 07:50:53 2021. IAWTP |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed May 19 16:16:54 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by LuchAAA on Tue May 18 23:10:56 2021. "That would suggest they don't know the law. They most likely knew but didn't care."I've dealt with so many people who were supposed to know what they were doing or the rules, but didn't know, and you had to teach them their own jobs, that quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if there are cops that do similar. There are a lot of laws on the books. So on worst case scenario: "That would suggest they don't know the law. They most likely [could've known] but didn't care [to study]." |
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Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed May 19 18:50:23 2021, in response to Re: Railfan & Railroad editor handcuffed at Broad Channel, suing, posted by Train Dude on Tue May 18 22:00:33 2021. Indeed, Selkirk forever! 🕊️ |
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