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| Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? (1140988) | |
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| (1140992) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by The Silence on Tue Feb 21 16:36:39 2012, in response to Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Feb 21 16:29:16 2012. East Elmherst is nowhere near Elmherst... East Elmherst is over by the airport. |
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| (1140994) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Feb 21 16:45:26 2012, in response to Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Feb 21 16:29:16 2012. Nice idea on paper, but there's no infrastructure to speak of - everything got taken down right to the rivets. We're looking at a whole new station. Too bad they completely removed it. Same for Corona.-w- |
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| (1140995) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 21 16:48:16 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by The Silence on Tue Feb 21 16:36:39 2012. That's true. It was always a misnomer. It is not even east of Elmhurst. |
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| (1140998) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 21 17:09:07 2012, in response to Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Feb 21 16:29:16 2012. Elmhurst? Isn't that on the Lower Montauk?ROAR |
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| (1141001) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Feb 21 17:22:14 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 21 17:09:07 2012. Check your MAPQUEST......kitty cat needs to take a walk along Queens Blvd. MEOW! |
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| (1141011) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 21 17:59:39 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Feb 21 17:22:14 2012. LION Googled it.Friend lived in MASPETH, near LIRR, but used the ELMHURST subway station. So there lives the LION'S confusion. |
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| (1141012) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Tue Feb 21 18:01:39 2012, in response to Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Feb 21 16:29:16 2012. A Junction Blvd station would be more useful. The Elmhurst area already has good subway access to Queens BLVD. |
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| (1141019) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by andy on Tue Feb 21 19:18:27 2012, in response to Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Feb 21 16:29:16 2012. This is another example of loudmouth politicians trying to convince their gullible constituents that the politicians are doing something.FACT: In 1933-36, 75+ years ago, the publicly built and operated IND subway was extended beyond Roosevelt-Jackson Heights to serve Elmhurst, Rego Park, Forest Hills, and Kew Gardens. Up to that time the LIRR was the only direct rail transit to Manhattan for those neighborhoods, which were low density. The subway came, created high-density development, and took away 80% of the then-privately owned LIRR patronage from stations in those neighborhoods. Eventually, stations at Rego Park and Elmhurst closed due to lack to patronage. The LIRR eventually became part of the public sector as well. Why bring back a service virtually no one used. Elmhurst closed in 1985. Many LIRR "customers" who boarded there tried to blend into the crowds and avoid the conductor. Fare evasion was a problem. There was little or no reverse peak demand. “Doing so will increase transit options for residents and help spur economic and residential development.” ??? The neighborhood is already overbuilt. The reason for adding the V/M trains to supplement the R and running the F through the 63rd Street tube was to provide additional subway service in this area. A new station would need full ADA accessiblity - ramps or elevators. The MTA has far more pressing needs. |
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| (1141023) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Feb 21 19:25:13 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by andy on Tue Feb 21 19:18:27 2012. Rego Park station closed due to lack of a train... only the Rockaway Line tracks could access it. Lack of patronage was due to one train a day - people found other options.If it were still around it would probably get about as much patronage as Forest Hills. |
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| (1141025) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Tue Feb 21 19:28:29 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Tue Feb 21 18:01:39 2012. Was'nt that where the Corona sta originally was?? |
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| (1141037) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by The Silence on Tue Feb 21 20:28:22 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Fisk ave Jim on Tue Feb 21 19:28:29 2012. It was at National st. |
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| (1141047) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 21 21:52:24 2012, in response to Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Feb 21 16:29:16 2012. Obviously they already "roll in Elmhurst". They just don't stop in Elmhurst. |
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| (1141066) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Feb 21 23:17:02 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by andy on Tue Feb 21 19:18:27 2012. Why bring back a service virtually no one used.Regional connectivity and transit access? I'd much rather have the German system where fares are the same regardless of mode within a transport district than this byzantine system that segregates users by mode and prevents users from using the best mode possible and allocates railway usage efficiently. |
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| (1141111) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Feb 22 08:35:55 2012, in response to Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Feb 21 16:29:16 2012. Other than its closing in 1985, I know very little about the politics behind the Elmhurst Station. But the reference to service changes that made it unattractive sounds like a typical aspect of MTA (and predecessor agency)policy- make a service so unattractive that its usage markedly declines- then justify its elimination due to "low ridership", that management itself deliberately caused.Although the LIRR is more expensive than the subway, enabling folks in that neighbborhood to USE a train that runs there can't cost that much- the line is already there. Build and maintain two concrete platforms and some lights...you know. Think of the Third Avenue line, etc... |
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| (1141125) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Feb 22 11:37:33 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Feb 22 08:35:55 2012. Need ADA ramps on both sides; I wonder if there's room on the PW-bound side to build them. If not, then an elevator would be neeed. Also an area for ticket machines would be needed, plus a couple of sheds. Maybe $5M-10M to do the whole job.wayne |
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| (1141128) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 11:49:06 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Feb 21 23:17:02 2012. LIRR is not intended to serve passengers in the city, it is intended to serve passengers on Long Island. Such pax do not want to be annoyed by local stops and heavier crowds. Such pax can afford higher fares and are willing to pay them so that they may have these faster trains with adequate seating and stuff.Or maybe we should bring back first, second and third class cars. ROAR |
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| (1141129) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Feb 22 11:55:27 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 11:49:06 2012. "LIRR is not intended to serve passengers in the city, it is intended to serve passengers on Long Island. "That's rather archaic.....since for example....reserve commuting on LIRR is rather high. |
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| (1141130) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 12:05:24 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Feb 22 11:55:27 2012. THAT is still serving passengers on Long Island. Live in the City and work on the Island = same thing. Still a LONG ISLAND passenger.ROAR |
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| (1141137) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 22 12:35:16 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Feb 21 23:17:02 2012. The Germans do some crazy shit that can't always be replicated. |
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| (1141138) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 22 12:36:50 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by andy on Tue Feb 21 19:18:27 2012. And let's be truthful here: the only people who would use the LIRR are the more affluent residents who can afford to regularly pay more to commute. |
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| (1141158) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 15:24:15 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 22 12:36:50 2012. Well, I did not want to *say* that lest it be taken in the wrong light, but yes, the affluent do not want to sit next to the effluent.ROAR |
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| (1141159) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Feb 22 15:32:14 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 11:49:06 2012. This particular branch (the Port Washington branch) has but four of its eleven stations wholly within the city limits. That particular theory may work for the folks from Babylon, Ronkonkoma and Port Jefferson, whose long slogs could easily be exacerbated by additional local stops, but for PW (and quite a few of their trains originate from and terminate at Great Neck) it's not particularly applicable. Especially with one additional stop at Elmhurst. That neighborhood, especially around the Broadway corridor is absolutely teeming with people.-w- |
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| (1141160) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? CORRECTED POST |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Feb 22 15:35:47 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Feb 22 15:32:14 2012. LET ME CORRECT MYSELF (See above)This particular branch (the Port Washington branch) has NINE of its THIRTEEN stations wholly within the city limits The rest of the explanation stands. |
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| (1141162) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Feb 22 16:11:37 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Feb 22 15:32:14 2012. "That neighborhood, especially around the Broadway corridor is absolutely teeming with people. "Yes.....teeming with people who SHOULD have an alternate way of getting into Manhattan beside the subway and bus routes. Also...it is a better way if they ever need to go East on the PW branch, say to Bayside for example. There are some concerns about fare beating. I am sure the MTA can think up a system that can solve that concern. I don't think an open station like what was in place would work. |
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| (1141164) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Feb 22 16:40:03 2012, in response to Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue Feb 21 16:29:16 2012. If Elmhurst gets LIRR service, then Woodhaven certainly should. |
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| (1141167) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 17:13:30 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Feb 22 16:11:37 2012. So turn the branch into a "sub-subway" line.LIRR will run it with their equipment and employees. Stations will be enclosed as per subway stations Access to stations will be per special metro card. ----Nassau County users will pay $8.00 inbound. ----NYC customers will pay $5.00 inbound. ----No fares are collected outbound. Trains will operate at a daytime headway of 15 minutes, perhaps 10 minutes during rush hours. Trains will have an engineer and a conductor only. A LION will be assigned to EAT farebeaters. |
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| (1141171) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 17:24:01 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 11:49:06 2012. Now that the Port Washington Branch has lost skip-stop service with 60 minuter intervals for the 1st time in 60 years, Elmhurst will add 2 minutes running time to an already slow service that the M-7 trains have made slower yet. |
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| (1141172) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 17:25:41 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 12:05:24 2012. Well west of Flushing and Jamaica. There is nothing but pokey buses east of there save some MTA Bus Manhattan expresses. |
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| (1141173) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 17:27:11 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 17:13:30 2012. Good idea, never thought of that.Maybe a service model for the Rockaway Beach line too. |
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| (1141174) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 17:28:17 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 17:25:41 2012. Not my problem. Pokey Buses live on a different forum. ☺ |
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| (1141175) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 17:29:37 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Feb 22 16:40:03 2012. There's would be a crime problem in reopening Woodhaven, and taking the LIRR to Atlantic Terminal is not great Manhattan access that you get with a 10 - 15 minute walk to the A or J train. |
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| (1141176) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 17:30:29 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by The Silence on Tue Feb 21 20:28:22 2012. How far from Mets Stadium station was Corona ? |
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| (1141177) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 17:31:58 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 17:29:37 2012. Eh? Well after LIRR diverts to GCT, LION suggests that the Atlantic branch be returned to NYCT. Let them run it with their equipment, but it will need to make a different landing at Jamaica. Something ala air-train. |
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| (1141179) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 17:46:46 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 17:31:58 2012. Very difficult. You would have a land-locked subway line with no physical connection to the B Division.They would have to deadhead to Hillside shops on a LIRR track connection that would have to pass muster wit the FRA, unless you get more complicated and run south of Atlantic Avenue on the Rockaway Line and head to Pitkin. |
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| (1141184) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Feb 22 18:10:03 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 17:29:37 2012. Last time I looked, Woodhaven wasn't a particularly high-crime neighborhood. Perhaps allocating a cop or two the station wouldn't be a bad idea. Once they get the Scoot up and running, this station should be reopened.wayne |
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| (1141187) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Feb 22 18:59:10 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 17:31:58 2012. Without a track connection to the rest of the subway, it will be a completely isolated line. Either connect the Atlantic branch to the J in Jamaica or connect it to the R in Brooklyn. Or both. |
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| (1141190) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 19:10:37 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Feb 22 18:10:03 2012. When last used in the mid-1970's for the one train each way, a LIRR cop went down there to see people off, and then left. I don't see the MTA staffing the station with a cop. |
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| (1141193) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 22 19:34:57 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 17:31:58 2012. Wrong. |
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| (1141196) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 19:58:18 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Feb 22 18:59:10 2012. Easier said than done. |
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| (1141201) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Feb 22 20:16:58 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 19:58:18 2012. I know (unfortunately). |
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| (1141203) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Feb 22 20:32:13 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Feb 22 16:11:37 2012. This person, this Konggressman making the noise should bring home the bacon (PORK) and pay for the station with Federal funds from the rest of the country. |
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| (1141229) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by WillD on Thu Feb 23 01:04:14 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 22 17:13:30 2012. ----Nassau County users will pay $8.00 inbound.----NYC customers will pay $5.00 inbound. ----No fares are collected outbound. MBTA tried this stupidity and had the good sense to bring it to a merciful end after mere months thanks to the widespread fare evasion. Come on, do you not see the MASSIVE opportunity for widespread fare evasion as people carpool, take the subway, or use any other means to get *to* work, and then take advantage of the GAPING hole in your fare collection system to return for free? At least outbound payment makes the carpool fare evasion method a bit more inconvenient, but it's still mindblowingly moronic. |
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| (1141253) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 23 08:54:03 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by WillD on Thu Feb 23 01:04:14 2012. Car pooling as not as easy as you think. |
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| (1141256) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Thu Feb 23 09:15:01 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 22 19:10:37 2012. Should have the same schedule as Nostrand and ENY. Watch what happens to the neighborhood once they realize that they have a short cut to downtown.-w- |
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| (1141265) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Feb 23 10:55:17 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by WillD on Thu Feb 23 01:04:14 2012. 1) Irrelevant: just so long as people get out of town.2) If it is important, adjust the fares to whatever and collect the outbound fare on egress. ROAR |
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| (1141266) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Feb 23 10:56:38 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by WillD on Thu Feb 23 01:04:14 2012. I can see them coming in on bus and subway, and then taking the free ride home. A cab or a car: not a chance, that would cost way more than the inbound train fare.ROAR |
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| (1141268) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Feb 23 10:59:46 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Feb 22 16:11:37 2012. I'm one of those people. I live within walking distance of the Auburndale stop, but I take the Q12 or Q13 buses to Main St for the 7 train every weekday, along with about 50,000 other people from all over eastern Queens, because the Zone 3 peak fare is just way too expensive to afford for myself and many others. Were it not for the absurdly high fare, I'd ride the railroad every day and continue to live in Bayside. |
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| (1141280) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Feb 23 11:34:26 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Feb 23 10:59:46 2012. The fare is NOT too expensive.You want the RICH to pay their way. The RICH live on Long Island. They are still not paying full fare (actual cost) their ride is still subsidized, but not as much as NYCT. LION would raise NYCT fares to at least $3.00 per trip, perhaps more, and then provide subsidies to those who as need them via other sources such as schools, colleges, welfare agencies, senior centers and the like. This way those who can pay more do pay more, and those who cannot can get assistance. ROAR |
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| (1141315) | |
Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Feb 23 16:34:03 2012, in response to Re: Will LIRR roll again in Elmhurst?, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Feb 23 11:34:26 2012. $8.75 is the one-way peak fare for eastern Queens (Zone 3). $193.00 is the price for a monthly pass. It doesn't include free transfers to the subway or local buses (unlike monthly commuter rail passes on the MBTA and SEPTA). If that's not expensive, then what is? |
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