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| Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton (1027190) | |
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| (1027190) | |
Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 19 18:46:01 2011 at least these names remained. It is very cool to still see N Sea Beach Express, Q Brighton Local, F Culver local etc... |
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| (1027198) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Wed Jan 19 18:59:21 2011, in response to Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 19 18:46:01 2011. D Brighton Express... as it once was and shall always be indelibly etched in my mind. |
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| (1027203) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 19 19:05:13 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by cortelyounext on Wed Jan 19 18:59:21 2011. Sorry the D was an invader. The only true Brighton service was the Q, QB and QT! |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1027214) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 19 19:29:59 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by cortelyounext on Wed Jan 19 18:59:21 2011. yea baby i hate the B on the brighton |
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| (1027216) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Wed Jan 19 19:34:10 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 19 19:05:13 2011. IAWTP! |
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| (1027217) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Wed Jan 19 19:34:28 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 19 19:05:13 2011. Sorry the D was an invader. The only true Brighton service was the Q, QB and QT!The first sentence is an outright lie and I am respectfully asking you to retract that statement. As for the second sentence, never again forget the venerable which means dignified QJ signed 168th Street Jamaica down the Brighton. This is not a threat but consider it a final |
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| (1027218) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Wed Jan 19 19:34:57 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Bob Andersen on Wed Jan 19 19:34:10 2011. No |
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| (1027223) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Jan 19 19:38:40 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by cortelyounext on Wed Jan 19 18:59:21 2011. The D was the MacDonald Avenue Line, the present day F until Chrystie Street. |
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| (1027233) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 19 19:50:17 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by cortelyounext on Wed Jan 19 19:34:28 2011. Sorry but I will not retract. I never forgot the "crime of 1967" when Astoria lost the T, QT, and QB. The D and QJ utterly destroyed the services that I had grown to love. IND trains do not belong on BMT tracks! |
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| (1027238) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Wed Jan 19 20:11:06 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 19 19:50:17 2011. k |
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| (1027244) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 19 20:31:33 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Jan 19 19:38:40 2011. And the IND BROOKLYN line, before it was connected to the Culver el. |
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| (1027274) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Wed Jan 19 21:54:48 2011, in response to Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 19 18:46:01 2011. Historical terminology isn't dead.Some conductors still drop references to "the Eighth Avenue Line" or to "the Sixth Avenue Line". MTA heads themselves have used line names during press conferences, they show up from time to time in service advisories, on their tweets, and they show up plain as day on those new monitors at Stillwell Avenue. As long as there are side signs, the line names aren't going anywhere anytime soon. |
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| (1027303) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Ed Alfonsin on Wed Jan 19 22:40:33 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 19 19:05:13 2011. The authentic designation was the number "1"--not any of those letters.Ed Alfonsin Potsdam, New York |
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| (1027366) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Jan 20 03:03:45 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 19 19:29:59 2011. But with the current B you get the awesomeness of:B - Bedford Park Blvd, Bronx to Brighton Beach, Brooklyn. No other line has ever alliterated that well. |
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| (1027411) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Jan 20 08:06:22 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 19 19:05:13 2011. M (Brown) Brighton Local anyone? |
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| (1027449) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 20 10:00:22 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Jan 19 19:38:40 2011. thank you I did not know |
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| (1027535) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Thu Jan 20 12:02:50 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Ed Alfonsin on Wed Jan 19 22:40:33 2011. And the number 7. |
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| (1027631) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Randyo on Thu Jan 20 16:02:40 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Ed Alfonsin on Wed Jan 19 22:40:33 2011. I couldn't have put it better myself! |
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| (1027632) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Randyo on Thu Jan 20 16:04:38 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 19 20:31:33 2011. Before it was connected to the Culver El, the F ran to Church Av. The D was routed via the Culver in 1954 to give Bronx passengers a one seat ride to Coney Island. |
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| (1027633) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Thu Jan 20 16:05:42 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Jan 20 08:06:22 2011. How about QJ? |
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| (1027635) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Thu Jan 20 16:09:31 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Jan 20 03:03:45 2011. Lol good one! |
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| (1027636) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Thu Jan 20 16:12:08 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Thu Jan 20 16:05:42 2011. How about QJ?No! |
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| (1027638) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Thu Jan 20 16:14:28 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Jan 20 03:03:45 2011. ... via the Bridge. |
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| (1027647) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Jan 20 16:57:59 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by cortelyounext on Thu Jan 20 16:12:08 2011. How about QJ?Who? Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1027649) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Jan 20 17:00:15 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Jan 20 03:03:45 2011. The only thing that comes close is the M that goes from Myrtle to Metropolitan! |
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| (1027658) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by ModelRider on Thu Jan 20 17:44:43 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Jan 20 03:03:45 2011. I love the conductor that announces "This is a Brighton Beach Brooklyn Bound B Train" at 59th |
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| (1027660) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Thu Jan 20 17:48:15 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by ModelRider on Thu Jan 20 17:44:43 2011. Alliteration at it's best! |
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| (1027663) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 20 17:51:19 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by ModelRider on Thu Jan 20 17:44:43 2011. Yea and what abotu the one who keeps repeating himself? B to Brooklyn B to Brooklyn. It reminds me of the Jimmy "two times" characted in "Goodfellas" LMAO! |
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| (1027759) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by B1bus on Thu Jan 20 22:48:32 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Jan 20 03:03:45 2011. I did that on nyctransitforums. |
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| (1027810) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jan 21 07:55:28 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 19 19:05:13 2011. I'll second that. And before letters came along, the Brighton was #1. |
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| (1027812) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jan 21 07:56:46 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Jan 20 16:57:59 2011. Why, Curly Joe, of course.:) |
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| (1027813) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jan 21 07:57:46 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Jan 20 08:06:22 2011. Moe felt out of place over there. He might even feel out of place right now along 6th Ave., come to think of it.:) |
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| (1027815) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jan 21 07:58:41 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Jan 20 03:03:45 2011. Bob, Barney, Betty from the Bronx to Brighton Beach. |
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| (1027816) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jan 21 07:59:53 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Jan 19 19:38:40 2011. The very first (or possibly the second) D train I ever rode on was from Rockefeller Center to Coney Island via the Culver on April 30, 1967. |
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| (1027831) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Howard Fein on Fri Jan 21 10:08:49 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 19 19:50:17 2011. Since R32s were used on both IND and BMT lines from their 1964 inception, should I assume you referring to the Arnines running on the Brighton Line as D trains? Or on the Broadway local as EE trains? Or taking over the Eastern Division in 1969 to replace the Standards?Either way, I think these practices stopped by the end of 1972. Arnines were removed from the D and EE, and when the M replaced the QJ as the weekday Brighton local at the turn of '72-'73 only 27/30s, the occasional 32, and 42s were used on the M while Arnines continued to run on the J which was cut back to Broad Street 24/7. 'BMT trains'- to me, the 27/30s- looked strange in such IND territory as the weekday QB local (which is a product of the earlier 11th Street cut) and the D in Manhattan and the Bronx. And they would spend their last six years of service on the CC. Pink seats and IND tile just don't seem to go together. |
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| (1027832) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri Jan 21 10:25:19 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Howard Fein on Fri Jan 21 10:08:49 2011. I am referring to the "D" route itself. Prior to 1967 QB/QT trains ran from Astoria to Coney Island and the Q ran from 57th St to Brighton Beach. After the "Crime of 1967" (ie the opening of Christie Street) the venerable T, QB and QT services were replaced by the putrid RR and IND services such as the B and D infested BMT tracks! |
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| (1027849) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Howard Fein on Fri Jan 21 10:53:07 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by BMTLines on Fri Jan 21 10:25:19 2011. Oh, I thought you were referring to equipment. As far as IND services infesting BMT tracks, Christie was not a precedent. In 1954 and 1956, the BMT Culver and Liberty els respectively became IND routes. |
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| (1027858) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri Jan 21 11:07:43 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Howard Fein on Fri Jan 21 10:53:07 2011. Ahh but the Crime of 1967 was the largest and virtually decimated the Broadway BMT in the process. It also affected me personally since we lost the one seat ride to Coney Island. Changing trains with all the stuff we carried (ie beach blankets, umbrellas, coolers, etc) became too much trouble and we stopped going to Coney Island soon thereafter :( Then Astoria service began to deteriorate - the RR was the worst piece of $%^& to ever infest the Astoria Line... We went from the glorious T, QT and QB to the stinkin' RR :( |
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| (1027860) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jan 21 11:16:25 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Howard Fein on Fri Jan 21 10:08:49 2011. Hi Howard: Nice to hear from you. From the perspective of a young railfan in the 1960's we still viewed the subway as three separate divisions and the equipment was viewed as such.The R-10's were IND, specifically A train, 8th Avenue Subway, hands down, no if, ands or buts. Of course some of the R-10's had already seen service on the BMT #15 Jamaica Line, that was in the dim past of the 1950's. If you were lucky though you might catch the occasional R-10 train on the AA or BB. The R-11's were considered to be BMT cars even though they had been built as prototypes for the 2nd Avenue Subway. They made they first passenger run on the BMT #1 Brighton Line but then they were assigned to the IND. They did run on the F express and this may have been the only time that all ten cars ran together. They were transfered back to the BMT in 1954. As built they could not mu with the rest of the fleet and eventually were laid up out of service. One car 8010 was modified and returned to service to take the place of R-16 6494 which was wrecked in 1957. All ten cars were overhaul from 1964 to 1965 and eventually returned to service usually on the BMT but on at least one occasion they ran on the post-Chrystie Street "B" train carrying #3 signs. Many referred to these cars as the last of the BMT experimentals inheritors of the lineage of the Green Hornet and the Zephyr. The R-16's were considered BMT cars even though they opened the service on the IND Rockaway Line. They were almost always found on the #15 Jamaica Line and on the #14 as well. The R-27/30/30A were of course BMT Southern Division cars. They replaced the unrebuilt Standards and to the best of my knowledge never ran in passenger service on the Eastern Division prior to the opening of the Chrystie Street Line. The R-32A/32's were thought of as BMT cars as well. They also were assigned to the BMT Southern Divison as well and it was these cars that spelled the end of the Triplexes." The R-38's came in as IND cars in the summer of 1966. This was the summer of the great maintenance meltdown at the IND Jamaica Yard. The first twenty cars on the property were pressed into service on the E and F lines on August 23, 1966. The Chrystie Street Line opened on November 26, 1967 effectively merging the IND and BMT Divisions. The next new cars to come in were the R-40's in March 1968 and they made their first runs on the 6th Avenue F train. I spent the next year of so in South Dakota helping Uncle Sam guard the US from an invasion by Canada so others will have to pick up the narrative from there. As I said at the beginning this was a subjective observation from someone who was out there riding the trains at the time. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1027863) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Fri Jan 21 11:21:57 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by BMTLines on Fri Jan 21 11:07:43 2011. wow do Astoria had the T, QT, QB, RR, N, W & Q?? |
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| (1027864) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Fri Jan 21 11:22:35 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by BMTLines on Fri Jan 21 11:07:43 2011. wow so Astoria had the T, QT, QB, RR, N, W & Q?? |
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| (1027865) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Fri Jan 21 11:26:43 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jan 21 11:16:25 2011. THank you. If the Brighton was the #1 what was the IRTSeventh Avenue Local called? |
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| (1027868) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jan 21 11:36:42 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Howard Fein on Fri Jan 21 10:53:07 2011. In 1954 and 1956, the BMT Culver and Liberty els respectively became IND routes.You're right about that. Its hard to think of the IND Liberty Avenue Line as what it was built as, the BMT Fulton Street El. After 1956 we had had two Culver Lines, an IND one south of Ditmas Avenue and a BMT one west of there. The biggest mistake I believe was routing the primary Brighton service up 6th Avenue and the local service up Nassau Street. The Brighton Line had the heaviest traffic of the four Coney Island routes and the Broadway subway offered good distribution in Manhattan and convenient tranfer points to the East and West Side IRT Lines. Sending the local trains up Nassau Street made no one happy. Then as now Nassau Street, while important was something of a transit backwater if you were coming from the Southern Division. It would have been better to keep send the bulk of the Brighton Local up Broadway and serve Nassau Street with for or five trains instead of the reverse. Of course thats all water under the Brooklyn Bridge now. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1027869) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri Jan 21 11:47:40 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Jan 21 11:26:43 2011. At the time when the Brighton was #1 th IRT used names only so the west side local was called the "Broadway-7th Avenue Local" |
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| (1027870) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Howard Fein on Fri Jan 21 11:50:40 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jan 21 11:16:25 2011. Very interesting summary. The 10s did almost always stick to pure IND territory, which IMO includes the Liberty/Rockaway lines. On very rare occasion one would run on the B or D in the mid-late 70s, so as a result would be seen on old BMT southern trackage.I never had the pleasure of riding the 11s, as in my lifetime they seem to have run primarily on the West End Line and Franklin Shuttle and were removed from service around 1968. Having been raised in Queens, I never got to ride the Southern Division till the next year or so. I took first notice of the 16s as QB locals in the late 60s-mid 70s. By then they attained the slanted map panels, fiberglass seats, and 1967 colored bulkhead bullets and roll signs in 1967 font. I'd never ridden the Jamaica BMT till 1968 or so, by which time the 27/30s had taken over. So I wouldn't see the 16s running in pure BMT territory till 1977. The 27/30s symbolized the BMT to me, as whenever we changed from the Flushing Line at Queensboro Plaza it was usually one of those- even before Christie. Didn't the 32s also run on the BB and D when new? I could be wrong. After Christie they had an equal presence on IND and BMT lines. I also remember 38s running on the N as well as the QB lines, but that may have been after Christie. The Slants really stuck to the IND lines until 1981 when they premiered on the B. Circa 1984-2008 they had much more a presence on BMT lines, and ironically returned to the A for their last few months in service. The Mod-40s started appearing on the D around 1978 or so and ran entirely on the Eastern Division from about 1988-2002, at which point they returned to the N. And after all these years, R46s STILL somehow look out of place on BMT lines! |
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| (1027872) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri Jan 21 11:51:56 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Jan 21 11:21:57 2011. Actually even more:"Second Avenue Local", IRT Astoria Local to Times Square", BMT #9, BMT #2,BMT #1, T, QT, QB, RR, R, B, W, N at various times throughout its history |
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| (1027874) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Fri Jan 21 11:54:52 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jan 21 11:36:42 2011. I remember the Q Broadway-Brighton Express prior to Chrystie as being horribly overcrowded, worse than sardines in a can. The D 6th Avenue-Brighton Express allowed 10-car trains for the first time, which eased the terrible overcrowding. As you mentioned, the TA would have been better off keeping the QB as a 24/7 Broadway Express-Brighton Local service, and the QJ or M as a Nassau St. rush-hour service. The D would have had to be the Express but nights and week-ends should have run only from Concourse to 34th St. The RR, which ran to Continental Av. before Chrystie, should never have been moved from there. There was no sense in terminating the N at 57th St., either, it or the QB (both in rush hours) should have run through to Astoria. |
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| (1027875) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri Jan 21 11:55:34 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by Howard Fein on Fri Jan 21 11:50:40 2011. Didn't the 32s also run on the BB and D when new? I could be wrong. After Christie they had an equal presence on IND and BMT lines.Before 1967 I remember brand new 32's on the T, N and Q lines of the BMT. The locals ran the 27/30's after the 32's entered service. |
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| (1027878) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Howard Fein on Fri Jan 21 12:04:51 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by BMTLines on Fri Jan 21 11:51:56 2011. Given that the BMT switched from numbers to letters on the Southern Division in 1960, I wonder what the M-F BMT 60th Street-QB service was called for the five years previous. Without doing the necessary research, I recall the 4th Avenue/Bay Ridge local providing this service until Christie- exactly as today's R does. The pre-1960 designation was the BMT #2, right?Or was there ever a period before Christie when the BMT QB service operated through to the Brighton Line? There used to be a guide somewhere on the Internet that showed all the various service patterns through history. But now I can't find it. :-( |
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| (1027881) | |
Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 21 12:12:56 2011, in response to Re: Sea Beach, Culver, Brighton, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Jan 21 11:22:35 2011. Also I think it had #8 designation when the IRT had trackage rights to Astoria,I wonder if any pix of R-12's going to Astoria exist ?? |
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