|
|
| Re: Communism will save America (698845) | |
 |
|
| Home > OTChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 2 of 4 |
||
|
| (699042) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 09:57:41 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Nov 22 09:35:15 2010. All societies can accurately be judged by entering their prisons. Don't delude yourself for one minute that American prisons offer "better living conditions" than the free poor. I've taken patients out of Rikers Island and other city jails, and all of them, as advertised, are horrible places I wouldn't want to spend an hour, let alone years in.That having been said, American prisons are luxury hotels compared to those of Communist countries, whose practices you'd like to adopt here. |
|
|
| (699044) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Nov 22 10:01:28 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 09:57:41 2010. They are horrible places because the lowlife scum lives there. The fact that they are guaranteed food, shelter, medical, etc........is Scrabbleship's point. |
|
|
| (699046) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Nov 22 10:05:04 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Nov 22 09:35:15 2010. The 8th Amendment made sense when people were tarred and feathered or had their heads cut off.And I wouldn't bet against one of the southern states having an idiotic ballot proposition from the "United States is a Christian nation" brigade trying to reintroduce that sort of shit if the 8th Amendment were repealed. a life without parole inmate Now, I would argue that life without parole is cruel and unusual punishment. They should be executed, exiled, or fined. Prison doesn't work. |
|
|
| (699049) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 22 10:08:00 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 09:49:46 2010. Bullshit. |
|
|
| (699050) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 22 10:08:19 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Nov 22 09:52:01 2010. Most important laws are that long. |
|
|
| (699051) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Nov 22 10:09:01 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by AlM on Mon Nov 22 09:39:50 2010. Mercifully Switzerland is one of the few countries where social democrats have not been able to make a breakthrough. |
|
|
| (699052) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 10:10:36 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Nov 22 10:01:28 2010. Prisons are horrible places because their purpose is to punish. The whole idea of incarceration is to make the conditions you will live in, so painful, that you will never do your crime again, for fear of returning to prison. In fact, the more severe sentences ("Life without parole", mandatory solitary confinement) are also meant to break the prisoner's spirit. The other prisoners the inmate must live with, are unavoidable.As for prison food, you can survive on it a lot longer than you would care to live. In fact, if you are sent to solitary, they can order that you be fed something called "Neutra-Loaf", which satisfies your nutritional requirements, but has neither taste nor odor. The purpose of "Neutra-Loaf" is to take the pleasure out of eating. There is literally no limit to the ways the prison administrators can mess with your mind and body. As for medical care, how would you like to be suffering from an excruciating toothache, begging for pain relief, and be told you have to wait for a doctor's approval...next week? Only the grossest illnesses or injuries will get you prompt, appropriate treatment. A free man can see a doctor any hour of the day or night, rich or poor, by going to the ER. Not so, for prisoners. |
|
|
| (699053) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Nov 22 10:10:46 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 09:49:46 2010. And it's quite the means of everything that has been going on the last two years which is nothing short of despicable.What do you mean? The problem with the last two years as I see it has been absurd expectations amongst the President's supporters, not the behavior of the executive branch. |
|
|
| (699056) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 10:14:17 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 10:10:36 2010. Well they shouldn't have done what led them to be there. And those in "solitary" are far from well standing human beings, they didn't get there being good people. |
|
|
| (699058) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 10:16:06 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Nov 22 10:10:46 2010. There are more Democrats than just Obama. I am way more pissed off at Congress than Obama. |
|
|
| (699061) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 10:20:14 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 10:14:17 2010. ..unless they have been wrongfully convicted. Innocent people do get convicted and jailed. |
|
|
| (699062) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 22 10:21:54 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Nov 22 06:29:53 2010. I was born after 1980 and I do not have this rosy, downright idiotic view of communism. If what you say is true, then our country is DOOMED. Communism has no silver lining. |
|
|
| (699064) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by cortelyounext on Mon Nov 22 10:24:17 2010, in response to Communism will save America, posted by Scrabbleship on Sun Nov 21 23:04:38 2010. A good 20 or so years of Communism will fix the US and will help us rediscover what we should be.So true. |
|
|
| (699065) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Nov 22 10:40:18 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Nov 22 10:05:04 2010. Life without parole are why states are so in the hole. Put someone in prison for 50, 60 years and they're leeching nine figures off of the state. I think the MOST one should be in prison is 25 years, tops. Anything more, execution.If we let Charlie Manson free tomorrow, the changes the world has gone through in the last 40 years would kill him before he could kill again. Life without parole is too inhumane. |
|
|
| (699067) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 10:55:35 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 10:20:14 2010. And again, they don't get put in solitary for being good people. |
|
|
| (699072) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 11:02:12 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by WillD on Mon Nov 22 00:25:11 2010. LOL, you're defending communism, which is indefensible. You willing to have another 100 million deaths or more on your conscience thanks to your brainwash? You're the only one here demonstrating "complete ignorance", especially of what communism is about, and about morality. You are officially a joke. |
|
|
| (699077) | |
Re: Communism will slay the world |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 11:11:30 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 09:57:41 2010. Well, that's funny. How come I've known people that find prison life easier than on the outside? |
|
|
| (699078) | |
Re: Prison will save Scrabbleship |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 11:16:25 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Nov 22 09:35:15 2010. Inmates get free healthcare and free higher education. They also have a certainty of a roof over their head and food in their belly. . . and tube steak in their rectums (involuntarily). Would you like to go there? The 8th Amendment made sense when people were tarred and feathered or had their heads cut off Do us a favor and go live in a dictatorship. If you survive and make it back here, let's see what you think of the USA afterward. Also shows that you are 100 percent ignorant as to where the concepts of prohibitions of excessive bail and cruel/unusual punishment come from . . . no, they didn't originate with the US Constitution. |
|
|
| (699080) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 11:20:44 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Nov 22 10:40:18 2010. You say life without parole is too "inhumane", but you support execution for any crime that calls for more than 25 years' incarceration?Interestingly, New York State used to have a law limiting most prison terms to 30 years, so that if you got 25-to-life, you'd be paroled after doing thirty years. Only first-degree murder carried an actual life sentence. The idea was to limit prison overcrowding, cut costs, abd the consensus was that after 30 years, prisoner aging would likely prevent recidivism. That ended under Governor Pataki, who reestablished both the death penalty and indefinite, arbitrary sentencing ("life without parole") for felony murder, some second-degree murders, and pedophilia cases ("involuntary civil commitment" after incarceration). I'm not saying known dangerous pedophiles should be released back into the wild, just pointing out that civil commitment after incarceration is the state's way around a fixed prison term for pedophiles. |
|
|
| (699082) | |
Re: Communism will slay the world |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 11:23:44 2010, in response to Re: Communism will slay the world, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 11:11:30 2010. Because there are some prison inmates who find it difficult to function without highly structured control over their lives, and some who cannot find work as an ex-convict on the outside. Sometimes the conditions of probation or parole are so onerous that ex-cons give up and return to prison. There are numerous reasons why that attitude exists among some ex-cons. |
|
|
| (699083) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Nov 22 11:26:27 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 11:20:44 2010. I am for castrating convicted pedophiles. |
|
|
| (699085) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 11:29:40 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Nov 22 11:26:27 2010. Mutilation would be a violation of the Eighth Amendment's proscription against cruel and unusual punishment. Castration is also absolute; where do the wrongly convicted go to get their penises back? |
|
|
| (699086) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 11:31:18 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Nov 22 11:26:27 2010. We are not some 3rd world country that mutilates people. |
|
|
| (699090) | |
Re: Communism will slay the world |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 11:41:51 2010, in response to Re: Communism will slay the world, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 11:23:44 2010. there are some prison inmates who find it difficult to function without highly structured control over their lives, and some who cannot find work as an ex-convict on the outsideThere are more than "some". You were describing conditions that all find intolerable, or attempting to. |
|
|
| (699091) | |
Re: Communism will slay the world |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 11:43:33 2010, in response to Re: Communism will slay the world, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 11:41:51 2010. But some prison inmates, like Martha Stewart or Michael Vick, return to their pre-incarceration lives without incident or recidivism... |
|
|
| (699092) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 11:45:13 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 11:29:40 2010. Castration is also absolute; where do the wrongly convicted go to get their penises back?You're not describing castration (orchiectomy); you're describing penectomy instead. |
|
|
| (699095) | |
Re: Communism will slay the world |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 11:46:54 2010, in response to Re: Communism will slay the world, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 11:43:33 2010. Quite, but they don't necessarily find the experience "on the inside" harrowing either. |
|
|
| (699096) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 11:47:20 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 11:45:13 2010. OK, where do the wrongly convicted go to get their properly functioning penises back? |
|
|
| (699097) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 11:51:31 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Nov 22 11:47:20 2010. The penis itself will still function, apparently, if you use hormone replacement therapy. Won't be able to have kids, though.Besides, in the case of testicular cancer, one may have no recourse medically. |
|
|
| (699098) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 11:52:23 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 11:51:31 2010. ????You care comparing deliberate removal of one's testicles to someone that had cancer? |
|
|
| (699108) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 12:13:43 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 11:52:23 2010. No, not really. He was asking about functionality. After he mistook penectomy for orchiectomy. |
|
|
| (699145) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by JayMan on Mon Nov 22 14:08:04 2010, in response to Communism will save America, posted by Scrabbleship on Sun Nov 21 23:04:38 2010. While I'm not opposed to moving towards the democratic socialism that exists in Europe, lets not forget that communism has been responsible for the deaths of well over 100 million people, far more than the Nazis ever hoped to kill. It is human nature to desire things for one self, and strive to improve one's condition, to work to increase one's resources and to pass this wealth on to one's kin, traits that are fundamentally incompatible with communism. This is why all communist states have failed or are in the process of giving it up.To paraphrase Bill Maher, communism is trying to get the river to flow the wrong way -- at least capitalism works with the direction the river wants to flow, you need a lot of locks and damns on that river but you can't reverse the flow. |
|
|
| (699152) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by JayMan on Mon Nov 22 14:26:44 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by WillD on Mon Nov 22 00:25:11 2010. There is a big difference between communism and democratic socialism -- and I think you are not helping to unblur the distinction between the two. Communism essentially necessitates police states to implement (unless your community is the tiny island of Tristan da Cunha) -- which China remains despite adapting a capitalistic economy. |
|
|
| (699172) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by shiznit1987 on Mon Nov 22 15:06:01 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 05:15:58 2010. Obamacare is wrong, but it's not communism. To think so puts you in the same camp as the Bush=Hitler crowd that was rampant when he was in office.Honestly, America is becoming so fucking hyperbolic. |
|
|
| (699174) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 15:07:30 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by shiznit1987 on Mon Nov 22 15:06:01 2010. I didn't mention "Obamacare". |
|
|
| (699175) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by shiznit1987 on Mon Nov 22 15:07:36 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayMan on Mon Nov 22 14:08:04 2010. well put. |
|
|
| (699176) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 15:08:02 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 15:07:30 2010. ....and certainly didn't even come close to calling Obama, "Hitler". |
|
|
| (699180) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by shiznit1987 on Mon Nov 22 15:15:53 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 15:08:02 2010. It's not that, but calling the last 2 years communist is just as insane as the stuff the liberals tried to pass off while Bush was in. I'm just fed up with the hyperbole and immaturity, btw who's calling the Tea Party "Racist" or who's calling Harry Reid "Stalin", it all just feels like one giant Nickelodeon episode.Bush and Obama represent two different paths to the same shitty place. When will genuine libertarian (ie: What the founders actually wanted) values ever gain a foothold? |
|
|
| (699182) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Nov 22 15:24:06 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by shiznit1987 on Mon Nov 22 15:15:53 2010. I didn't call anyone "communists" either.In any event, I do agree with your point however. |
|
|
| (699183) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Nov 22 15:36:22 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayMan on Mon Nov 22 14:26:44 2010. We're pretty close to a police state as it is, so it isn't that far of a stretch at this point. |
|
|
| (699184) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 22 15:39:33 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by shiznit1987 on Mon Nov 22 15:15:53 2010. I don't think "what the founders wanted" matters. They lived in the 18th century. If necessary, the constitution should be amended. |
|
|
| (699189) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by JayMan on Mon Nov 22 15:46:11 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Nov 22 15:36:22 2010. While there are certain abuses by the government (e.g., PATRIOT Act, TSA, persecution of photographers) that we are rightly against, what we have here in the States is nothing like the oppression that exists in countries like China or Burma. |
|
|
| (699199) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Nov 22 16:20:28 2010, in response to Communism will save America, posted by Scrabbleship on Sun Nov 21 23:04:38 2010. Capitalism is fine... it'll work as long as there is a growing population, once a population begins to decrease Capitalism derails |
|
|
| (699202) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by JayMan on Mon Nov 22 16:29:13 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Nov 22 16:20:28 2010. once a population begins to decrease Capitalism derailsThis is interesting. Please elaborate. |
|
|
| (699203) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by BMTLines on Mon Nov 22 16:30:03 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayMan on Mon Nov 22 15:46:11 2010. Another difference is that we still have recourse in the courts - for example the settlements photographers are winning. |
|
|
| (699209) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Nov 22 16:50:39 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayMan on Mon Nov 22 16:29:13 2010. When I took Environmental AP in High School there was a particular section that talked about the future of the Earths population it took into account technological advanced, medical advanced, cultural advances etc and basically it has it that poorer countries with higher infant mortality rates or more religious countries tend to have more children i.e. increasing populations while westernized cultures with independent women, better health tend to have less children (if you look at Japan for example they had a declining population) to avoid a lot of the details it basically said in the future the population of the would would peak at 12-15 billion people sometime between 2100-2150 (though some models have it peaking and on the decline before then) as the world advances the worlds population will decrease as people live longer and have less children, where in the year 23-2400 the population would be between 3-4 billion. Where it will stabilization as it takes the assumption that it'll be a 1 death to 1 birth ratio.Back to why I say this, it goes back to the simplest of things... Supply and demand, as there is a growing population there will always be a demand for product no matter what is it, a need for supply. When you have a declining population you need less supply, because even though there maybe a demand the demand is decreasing due to there being less people. therefore less business. Less businesses - less money in the economy and so on and so forth. It goes further into things but its quite fascinating and basically says that for the world to advance to such a state the way humans interact and how governments work and function have to dramatically change for a world of stagnant growth or declining population. |
|
|
| (699211) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 16:56:44 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayMan on Mon Nov 22 14:08:04 2010. While I'm not opposed to moving towards the democratic socialism that exists in EuropeIf you understood it, you would be. |
|
|
| (699212) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 16:57:24 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Nov 22 16:20:28 2010. Not true. |
|
|
| (699219) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by JayMan on Mon Nov 22 17:12:41 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 16:56:44 2010. Let's see: health care for everybody, (almost) free higher education, guaranteed paid vacations, more educated populace, major projects that actually get built, no rampant poverty or egregious inequality in wealth -- yeah I think I understand it pretty well, and because of that, I'm very much with it. Do you understand it? |
|
|
| (699223) | |
Re: Communism will save America |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 22 17:14:38 2010, in response to Re: Communism will save America, posted by JayMan on Mon Nov 22 17:12:41 2010. No, you don't understand it at all. They all come at the price of your freedom. Maybe you need to look into it a bit deeper? |
|
|
|
Page 2 of 4 |
||