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| Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam (1290607) | |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 14:56:32 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by AlM on Tue May 26 14:39:45 2015. Why? Voters firmly repudiated McGovern. It's a logical fallacy to assume that if choice A turned out bad, that the answer is to embrace the old choice B.Reagan had the baggage of neither Nixon or McGovern, as he proved by getting an absolute majority of the popular vote in 1980 (and nearly 8.5 million more than Carter) and won every state but six and D.C. Just to make this more amusing, I didn't vote after seeing my favorite, Ted Kennedy, drop out because he never saw a "Don't Drink and Drive" poster. |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 14:57:24 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue May 26 14:55:41 2015. There's some fine point of rhetoric here... |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue May 26 14:59:56 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 14:57:24 2015. well ! |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 26 15:01:01 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 14:56:32 2015. McGovern is speculation.But if Nixon had held out to 1/20/1977, it really is hard to imagine any Republican beating Carter. Ford did a lot to repair the Republican brand that Nixon could never have done. |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 15:38:12 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by AlM on Tue May 26 15:01:01 2015. You're not posting from Colorado, are you? Don't worry; I won't tell anyone. :) |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 26 15:58:00 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 15:38:12 2015. ???I think you are confusing the 1980 Carter with the 1976 Carter. |
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| (1290822) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 15:59:44 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by AlM on Tue May 26 15:58:00 2015. I get the point you're trying to make, but I don't see the 1976 Carter as very attractive. |
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| (1290825) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 26 16:02:36 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 15:59:44 2015. But what did the public think was negative about him? A smart, honest, moderate southerner. |
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| (1290834) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 16:26:22 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by AlM on Tue May 26 16:02:36 2015. I would have to revisit a lot. Smart?Educated, not the same as smart. Honest? There is more to honesty than not putting your hands in the till. Remember his "Georgia Mafia" of advisers that even fellow Democrats wanted him to dump; instead he doubled down. Moderate? Compared to whom? He was and is a leftist. Southerner? In that era that wasn't a plus in most of the country. The only other Southerner people had recent experience with was LBJ. Not to mention George Wallace, Bull Connor, Lester Maddox... If not for the "Favorite Son" effect in the South, he wouldn't even have beaten Ford. |
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| (1290836) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 26 16:33:51 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 16:26:22 2015. Moderate? Compared to whom? He was and is a leftist.Your memory fails you. Running against Jerry Brown, George Wallace, Morris Udall, Henry Jackson, and Frank Church. Wallace was the far right winger, Jackson was the conservative, and Brown, Udall, and Church were the liberals. |
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| (1290855) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by Dave on Tue May 26 17:48:44 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue May 26 14:55:41 2015. Refusing to register = dodging the draft. |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 26 23:02:18 2015, in response to Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by Dave on Mon May 25 22:06:59 2015. Well that's more than a little inaccurate.1. It wasn't "cool" to burn draft cards. 2. The people who avoided the draft were loyal to their country— patriots don't kill people just because their government tells them to. 3. The people who were willing to risk their freedom avoiding the draft were fare more courageous than the cowards who shot Vietnamese children because the government told them to. 4. No one has a "duty" to fight illegal wars of aggression. |
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| (1290918) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 26 23:04:04 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by Dave on Tue May 26 06:53:24 2015. In 1973, the year I turned 18, the draft ended when we went to an all-volunteer military.So why didn't you volunteer? You call Salaam a "criminal" doing the exact same thing you did, in choosing not to fight in Vietnam. What a hypocrite. |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue May 26 23:08:39 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by Nilet on Tue May 26 23:02:18 2015. IAWTP ! |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue May 26 23:09:22 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by Nilet on Tue May 26 23:04:04 2015. davey from texassss strikes again Nilet !!IAWTP |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 00:59:54 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by AlM on Tue May 26 16:33:51 2015. You forgot this guy  |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 01:07:11 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 16:26:22 2015. That is what people thought of Carter in 1976?What people knew of Carter that year was that he was an honest, hardworking, very Christian and able, moderate, problem solving, former governor of the New South. It's what America was seeking. |
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| (1290927) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 01:22:20 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 14:08:05 2015. I strongly supported Afghanistan.It's tragic how Bush abandoned that war in order to focus on the Iraq fuckup. Thank God, Obama re-pivoted the efforts there and saved the salvageable. |
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| (1290928) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 01:25:50 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 12:27:46 2015. You don't have an opinion on Johnson?If not for the Vietnam blemish, he would have been up with TR and Truman in a Top Seven of the best we ever had. He would have also gotten a second full term to do more great things. Of course that's a BIG blemish. I put him in the Top Ten anyway. |
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| (1290929) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 27 01:29:43 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 01:25:50 2015. He would have also gotten a second full term to do more great things.He barely survived 4 more years. I think he was told that another 4 years of being president would kill him. I never bought that Vietnam was his reason for quitting. He could have bluffed his way through that. |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 01:46:22 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 01:22:20 2015. And how much Bush's buddy Karzai continued to fuck it all up. :( |
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| (1290931) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 01:52:56 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by AlM on Wed May 27 01:29:43 2015. I got into political reporting as my first gig with WBAI in the summer of 1968. In that role, I became a junior member of the Washington press corps although others did the White House beat. I pulled duty at the Pentagon and State Department whenever there was a story we needed to cover out of New York.I was told by the old timers that the reason that Johnson quit revolved around several things. First off, the signing of the Civil Rights Act caused southern democrats to tell him flat out that he would NEVER get another bill voted on in revenge for signing CRA. In addition to that, he had been carrying solitary blame for Viet Nam even though the advisor role began with Eisenhower and the first troops were sent in by Kennedy. When Walter Cronkite on the evening news blamed him and reported that the American people had turned against him, he believed that he was rendered impotent among both northern and southern voters and his legacy would be denied. That's why he pulled the plug so I was told way back then. |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed May 27 02:32:14 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 01:22:20 2015. I wouldn't call Afghanistan "salvageable." That chunk of land has been a mess for thousands of years. Three great empires fell trying to conquer it and we're angling to be the fourth.A war in Afghanistan was a mistake from the start. The only reason to go into the country at all was to capture Osama bin Laden, which could (and should) have been done with a surgical strike, just like the one that ultimately killed him in Pakistan after years of trying to conquer Afghanistan. |
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| (1290938) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 02:52:34 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by Nilet on Wed May 27 02:32:14 2015. Reality is that NOBODY has won a war in Afghanistan except for the natives. But let's not forget that the Taliban gave the world a reason to go in there and do some ass-kicking. Only problem is that we let Karzai run the joint after they were deposed. :( |
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| (1290939) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 03:04:54 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 01:52:56 2015. First off, the signing of the Civil Rights Act caused southern democrats to tell him flat out that he would NEVER get another bill voted on in revenge for signing CRA.But he got plenty of important bills passed between 64-68. In addition to that, he had been carrying solitary blame for Viet Nam even though the adviser role began with Eisenhower and the first troops were sent in by Kennedy. And deservingly so. The advisers under Ike and JFK only numbered in the few thousands. LBJ asked for the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. LBJ escalated the war to the point where we had over half a million troops in-country and about 40,000 dead by the time he left office. It is said that he abandoned his re-election effort after Eugene McCarthy almost beat in the NH primary. That kind of vulnerability made it inevitable that RFK would enter the race against him. Which he did right after that primary. |
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| (1290940) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:09:24 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 03:04:54 2015. Yep on the politicals after, but the point was that LBJ had already felt defeated long before that. Remember, he was a Senator for a long time and was well liked. He got the "Mayor Wilhelm by cops" treatment from his own after signing that bill. That's what really spooked him. His "love" of the Kennedys goes without saying.The one thing that LBJ repeated over and over again though, demonstrating his belief that he wasn't going to be successful in his second term was his observation on signing the bill, "We just lost the south." And he knew it. Remember, LBJ had an ego as big as Texas. He wanted to be remembered for the "good" he did, as a great facilitator. He KNEW that gig was over and that's why he resigned. Been told that by many who knew him personally back then, including Bill Moyers. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:12:04 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 03:04:54 2015. And sorry for not going any deeper on that, the Viet Nam story and the manipulation of him that caused that is enough for a book and sadly I'm in the middle of some code or I'd at least hint at it. LBJ quit because he had been completely defeated where it wasn't quite visible. Walter Cronkite's comments about "lost America" was just the final straw. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:13:13 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:12:04 2015. And I'm no fan of LBJ. I at least got an interview out of Nixon, Ford and Reagan. LBJ wouldn't sit down. :) |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 03:14:52 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SLRT on Tue May 26 14:18:04 2015. They each in their terms demonstrated that "moderate, honest and decent" is not enough.That's why Ford lost in '76. Carter's term hadn't yet happened so no such thing could be used against him in '76. |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:16:05 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by Dave on Tue May 26 17:48:44 2015. not true Refusing to register is not dodging the draftLOL! davey from texassssss |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:18:01 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 03:14:52 2015. Ford really lost because of Chevy Chase. He is far and away the most UNDERSTATED President of all time. As a caretaker, he actually got shit done. Then Nixon's economic mess caught up with him, and Carter too. |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 03:21:30 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:13:13 2015. You should have told LBJ that you would have been perfectly fine interviewing while he was taking a shit.He actually did that! |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:22:08 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:16:05 2015. Well, technically, it was a federal crime subject to five years in jail or a fine up to $50,000 if convicted. IF you got caught of course.What made the difference in your case as far as the whiners here is that despite that, you were PARDONED. Gerald Ford, Carter's predecessor in the White House, offered conditional amnesty to some draft dodgers. Carter, however, seeking to heal the war's physic wounds, set no conditions, although some individuals were excluded from the blanket pardon. Thus, military deserters were ineligible. So bottom line, even if you were guilty of a federal crime, you were forgiven. Therefore, not guilty. Those who have a problem with that can just suck it. Nixon was pardoned too. :) |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:23:52 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 03:21:30 2015. I know ... always got a kick out of that. I suspect my "issue" was my card-carrying political affiliation. :)Didn't matter though, I was an old time journalist then. If you said it, I would ask if I could quote that and my opinions never entered into the stories I put on the air (with actualities!). |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 03:25:26 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:18:01 2015. This is how I remember him. |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:30:02 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 03:25:26 2015. Like I said, "Chevy Chase." :(Still doesn't take away from all of his accomplishments considering the hot mess he was handed. But then nobody wants to look any of that shit up. After Nixon, President Gerry was the only reason why I remained a republican after Nixon's hot mess. He convinced me that he really wanted to fix shit. Then came Carter. LOL! So I definitely remained a loyal republican. Then came Falwell, Jim & Tammy, the Crouches, Billy Graham and a cast of a thousand crazies pulling the strings on Reagan, along with Kleindeinst, Mitchell, Cheney, Haig and Nofziger plus extra crazies from the Nixon crew to help make it all stick. 
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| (1290951) | |
Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:32:10 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:22:08 2015. you cant be CAUGHT if you refuse to REGISTERby not giving the correct name and address i fooled even my father who THOUGHT i was REGESTERED aprox 1970 - 1973 i did not ''dodge the draft'' i refused to give the correct name address etc and i got my family off of me and into FREEDOM from being drafted into that bastard vietnam war and i was totally against doing any forced MILITARY SERVICE |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:33:43 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 03:25:26 2015. he lost some votes behind thatlol |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:33:58 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:32:10 2015. Dude! I'm on your side. But still, failure to register WAS a federal crime then, and they're even more serious about it now. To the feds, any form of "evasion" be it that or something else is considered "failure to register for selective service" and yeah, technically you did.But once again, a pardon is a pardon. It completely exonerates you and thus anyone giving you a hard time about it GIVEN THAT is pissing up a rope. Moo. :) |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:35:37 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:33:58 2015. by the way when was that pardon ?i was not even living at my fathers house when that went down lol |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:38:48 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:35:37 2015. Sept. 16, 1974 for Gerald Ford's "partial pardon" and Jan 21, 1977 for Jimmy Carter's "everybody except deserters." If you'd like to know more, google (oh man, this is going to fire off the usual suspects again, heh) this:"pardons draft dodgers" ... it'll fill you in on the details. Bottom line, you walked away INNOCENT. That's all that matters. Nixon was pardoned, the banksters who gave us 2007 were pardoned, and many many more. They walked ... |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:44:26 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:38:48 2015. well i have one law and its my black survival here in north americathats whos ass i am looking out for first not going to vietnam to kill rape and rob etc .............. not what some requirement that i go overseas and kill innocent people who did nothing to me in 1974 i was not living in my fathers house and he moved to a new one in the hills of pasadena i see your point in this and i did not want to be in the military for any reason whatsoever i had other plans i told you before thanks |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:45:59 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:44:26 2015. No worries! I'm just kinda tired of this thread still going with the usual suspects. And no worries, man ... you got to go home. :)The moral questions were the reasons why TWO Presidents granted that amnesty. They agreed with you! |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:47:23 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:45:59 2015. thank youi am tired too having to explain over and over again why i did not want to kill and murder for uncle sam ! hell no i wont go |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:51:11 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:47:23 2015. No worries once again. There's no explaining to republicans who get their own "gotcha" type Palin question because looks like that's all they've got to jerk your chain. Take away the chain, and they've gotta fap to something else. :)Trying to reason with trolls is like trying to reason with a certain turtle. Take away their attention, and they find someone else to grab the ankle of. Heh. |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:54:52 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:51:11 2015. i have no bad feelings about what i did back thenlol |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 04:05:25 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:54:52 2015. Never said you did. Some folks just don't understand that what is between one and GOD is what really matters. The physical world is ruled by men. In Christianity, it's that whole "render unto Caesar" thing. :) |
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Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 04:07:35 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:23:52 2015. Texaasss |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 04:11:27 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 27 03:30:02 2015. He convinced me that he really wanted to fix shit.True but the Peter Principle applied to him. Especially when compared to the know-how and animalistic political instincts of his two immediate predecessors. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed May 27 04:14:41 2015, in response to Re: Remembering a buddy from high school who died in Vietnam, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 27 03:33:43 2015. |
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