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| (299332) | |
"World Class Bus Rapid Transit" for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Thu Oct 30 14:09:50 2014 NY1 news: .mp4 video format linkThe message from City Councilman Donovan Richards’s address and cheering transit advocates was clear: It was time to bring super express buses to southern Queens “Thousands of our Queens commuters need better transit options,” the Laurelton Democrat told a crowd of transit advocates in front of City Hall Tuesday. “They need Bus Rapid Transit, whose supporters say it is a cost-effective and achievable transit solution to the mobility needs of New York’s transit-starved neighborhoods, particularly those in outer borough Queens, stretching from the Rockaways to northern Queens,” Richards said. Scores of transit advocates roared their approval. Richards said the Woodhaven Boulevard Cross Bay Boulevard route, which is congested and dangerous, is in dire need of speedy bus service. “Around 30,000 residents take buses along this corridor each day,” Richards said. “Because of heavy traffic buses are unreliable on this major north-south corridor.” Richards said more than 5,000 bus riders had signed a petition requesting BRT service along Woodhaven and Cross Bay corridor. BRT, or Bus Rapid Transit, is not new to New York City but it would be to Queens. BRT is an international designation for super express buses with passengers paying before boarding and entering through any door to cut down on the time at stops. Ultimately the buses are supposed to be equipped to prolong green traffic lights to avoid stopping between regular stops. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority introduced what it calls Select Bus Service to a Bronx route a number of years ago and since then the MTA has installed some BRT service in all boroughs except Queens. City Council members Costa Constantinides (D-Astoria), Elizabeth Crowley (D-Middle Village), Daniel Dromm (D-Jackson Heights), Julissa Ferreras (D-East Elmhurst), Karen Kozlowitz (D-Forest Hills) and Eric Ulrich (R-Ozone Park) have have signed a letter to the MTA and the city Department of Transportation requesting BRT service along the Woodhaven and Crossw Bay corridor extending to Far Rodckaway, “Communities like the ones I represent are bursting with potential for growth, but need better access to public transportation to achieve it,” Crowley said. “Expanding high quality BRT throughout Queens will help uplift working families that have struggled for generations in underserved parts of our city.” http://timesledger.com/stories/2014/43/brtqueens_tl_2014_10_24_q.html With the push for a permanent Rockaway ferry still dominating the south Queens transportation conversation, elected officials and transit advocacy groups this week rallied on the steps of City Hall, calling on the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to bring high-quality bus rapid transit to a patch of the borough that historically has been bereft of public transit options. City Councilman Donovan Richards (D-Laurelton) hosted the Tuesday morning event, announcing support from fellow councilmembers and bus riders, and unveiling a “BRT For NYC” movement petition, boasting 5,000 signatures, for the service along the Woodhaven and Cross Bay corridor, extending into Far Rockaway. Bus rapid transit, according to Richards, combines the permanence, speed and reliability of rail with the flexibility of buses, all at a fraction of the cost of a subway system. “Building on the success of Select Bus Service, the Woodhaven and Cross Bay corridor represents an opportunity to deliver BRT for the more than 30,000 residents relying on bus service along the corridor every day,” Richards said. “Protected bus lanes and center-median stations will help make one of the most dangerous and extensive transportation corridors in the city more safe, reliable and equitable for pedestrians, cyclists and drivers alike.” Additionally, councilmembers Costa Constantinides (D-Astoria), Elizabeth Crowley (D-Glendale), Daniel Dromm (D-Jackson Heights), Julissa Ferreras (D-East Elmhurst), Karen Koslowitz (D-Forest Hills) and Eric Ulrich (R-Ozone Park) have signed a letter to the MTA and city Department of Transportation outlining recommendations for full-featured BRT along the bustling thoroughfares. The petition is being handled by the “BRT For NYC” Steering Committee, which is composed of representatives from the Association for a Better New York, the New York Public Interest Research Group Straphangers Campaign, Pratt Center for Community Development, Riders Alliance, Transportation Alternatives, Tri-State Transportation Campaign, Transit Workers Union and Working Families Party. To sign the petition, log on to: http://salsa.ridersny.org/p/salsa/web/common/public/signup?signup_page_KEY=9664 http://theforumnewsgroup.com/2014/10/26/pols-advocates-call-on-mta-to-bring-bus-rapid-transit-to-borough/ |
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| (299333) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 30 14:30:08 2014, in response to "World Class Bus Rapid Transit" for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Oct 30 14:09:50 2014. Wow...so they WILL ride Another BUS...but aren't willing to go with a reactivated rail line...spend million on a bus that's Already there..but with added perks...not spend a dime on a much needed rail system of a far greater scope.Talk about backwards. Why can't we have both? |
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| (299339) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 30 14:44:05 2014, in response to "World Class Bus Rapid Transit" for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Oct 30 14:09:50 2014. Head -> Wall |
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| (299367) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 31 08:33:41 2014, in response to "World Class Bus Rapid Transit" for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Oct 30 14:09:50 2014. Where is the traffic impact study that would show the effects on other traffic if BRT results in only two through lanes of traffic in each direction (reduced from four)exclusive of turning lanes? There are no parallel roadways for the diversion of traffic, only one way narrow residential streets. That also has to be considered. Highway alternatives like the BQE and the Van Wyck are also jammed. That only leaves Pennsylvania Av and Lefferts Blvd. Switching to the BRT will still involve three or four transfers for drivers so they will not do it. No new routes are planned if BRT is instituted. Only converting limited buses to BRT. |
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| (299369) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Oct 31 10:51:03 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 31 08:33:41 2014. Where is the traffic impact study that would show the effects on other traffic if BRT results in only two through lanes of traffic in each direction (reduced from four)exclusive of turning lanes?All concepts being considered maintain three lanes of traffic. It looks like traffic analysis is in the Citywide Congested Corridors Study, although only the West 181st Street report is finalized and posted. |
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| (299371) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Oct 31 13:43:49 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 31 08:33:41 2014. Can't wait to see how those stops that have become limited stops in recent times take it when that status is revoked! I see 163rd Ave, Atlantic Ave, and even Myrtle Ave hanging by a thread! 157th Ave may find itself relocated too. |
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| (299372) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Oct 31 13:55:34 2014, in response to "World Class Bus Rapid Transit" for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Oct 30 14:09:50 2014. It's sad because they've done so much with this corridor since the inception of MTAB. The Q11, 21, 41, 52, and 53 lines all make a whole lot more sense nowadays than they used to. Now in all likelihood they're going to mess it all up. Instead of putting in a few special non-stop expresses from Ozone Park to Elmhurst, which is all that's really needed, the B44-syndrome is going to set in - the people who need SBS the most are not going to have access to it. |
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| (299373) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Oct 31 14:02:07 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Oct 31 13:55:34 2014. I'd like to add that by simply using the main road lanes rather than the service lanes during the rush hour peak direction (by stopping a little south of Liberty in both directions, and skipping Atlantic and Jamaica Aves, that by itself would speed participating runs by several minutes (I'm willing to say 6 or 7) and you really don't do that much damage. Just the act of using the overhead roadway to bypass Atlantic Ave shaves off a few minutes (due to the traffic signal sequence). |
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| (299377) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 31 15:28:21 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Oct 31 10:51:03 2014. Yes, three through lanes are maintained (assuming no bus lanes on the overpass south of Metropolitan) because left turns at Metropolitan and Rockaway Blvd are prohibited. Also a left turn southbound at 73rd Avenue (not shown) would have to be created to maintain access from Woodhaven south to the shopping center.I can't see how they could ban the left turn from Woodhaven south to Rockway Blvd. that is a very heavy movement. What would be the alternative? Also, these plans appear to be for SBS. What would differ for BRT which is also under consideration? Would three through lanes be maintained for BRT also? |
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| (299379) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Oct 31 15:46:07 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 31 15:28:21 2014. I can't see how they could ban the left turn from Woodhaven south to Rockway Blvd. that is a very heavy movement. What would be the alternative?I haven't looked too deeply into it; maybe 103rd Avenue? Also, these plans appear to be for SBS. What would differ for BRT which is also under consideration? Ah; I didn't realize "BRT" wasn't being used as a code word for SBS. Note that the petition for full BRT is by people who want it to be considered by the City and the MTA. The City and the MTA aren't currently considering it, so there is no study. But the "median busway" concept seems to fit the petitioners' criteria and maintains three lanes. |
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| (299386) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 31 21:09:10 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Oct 31 15:46:07 2014. 103rd would be the only choice if they allow left turns there and if they do, you really wouldn't have three through lanes since everyone would be lined up in the left lane to make a left turn there.According to AM NY Trottenberg is considering true BRT at a cost of $200 million and Riders Alliance claims to have 5,000 signatures in support of "BRT". |
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| (299390) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Fri Oct 31 23:08:36 2014, in response to "World Class Bus Rapid Transit" for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Oct 30 14:09:50 2014. LOL "Speedy bus service"...at 25 MPH? More like "sit your ass down and wait" service! |
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| (299393) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by Concourse Express on Fri Oct 31 23:34:04 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by G1Ravage on Fri Oct 31 23:08:36 2014. Exactly. NY's pokey buses will likely get pokier once the new speed limit takes effect on 11/7.I must ask again: has *anyone* behind the lower speed limits considered the effects of such on bus service? Visit my blog! |
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| (299403) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Nov 1 18:13:39 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Oct 31 14:02:07 2014. Woodhaven Blvd during rush hour is a parking lot in every lane. |
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| (299404) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Nov 1 18:20:11 2014, in response to "World Class Bus Rapid Transit" for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Oct 30 14:09:50 2014. You know what would be world class rapid transit for Woodhaven Blvd? Activating that railroad that runs a few hundred feet east of it for it's entire length. |
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| (299406) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 1 18:43:36 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Nov 1 18:13:39 2014. I've driven it in the rush hour both directions. The terrible spot is southbound during the PM rush from Metropolitan over the LIRR track to Union Tpke where many cars want to turn left (east). That bridge backs up badly.There is also some backing up northbound from Liberty back down to Pitkin at times (that's Cross Bay, not Woodhaven, though). But once you get past these respective trouble spots, everything opens up. The traffic lights do a good job keeping things moving, outside of the exceptions I note. |
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| (299407) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 1 19:30:13 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Nov 1 18:20:11 2014. "World Class"/"BRT". Talk about a contradiction in terms.Yes, open the RBB. Then give the Q53 a mercy killing. |
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| (299408) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 1 22:11:11 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Oct 31 13:55:34 2014. Exactly...we don't bother with the Nostrand Avenue SBS. |
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| (299410) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Nov 1 23:11:08 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Nov 1 18:20:11 2014. +1 |
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| (299413) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Sun Nov 2 01:11:31 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by italianstallion on Sat Nov 1 23:11:08 2014. Unfortunately, I think that's not happening. It seems SBS has been drilled in as the way to alleviate the Woodhaven corridor. :( |
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| (299417) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 2 09:48:25 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by GojiMet86 on Sun Nov 2 01:11:31 2014. It will strangle auto and truck traffic. Did you see the plans? They want to eliminate all left turns at Metroplitan Avenue and at Rockaway Blvd. Cars will have to take slow roundabout routes adding ten minutes to their trip just to ake a left turn. Absolutely ridiculous. The needs for cars and trucks have been completely ignored. They at least should allow HOV vehicles into the bus lanes. |
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| (299422) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 2 14:06:43 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 2 09:48:25 2014. Sort of a NYC version of a Jersey jug-handle ? |
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| (299423) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 2 14:45:09 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 2 14:06:43 2014. But with the jug handle you don't have to compete with dozens of cars entering and exiting a shopping center. |
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| (299437) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Nov 3 08:37:53 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 31 21:09:10 2014. 103rd would be the only choice if they allow left turns there and if they do, you really wouldn't have three through lanes since everyone would be lined up in the left lane to make a left turn there.No, I meant having that traffic turn right onto 103rd, then left onto Rockaway Boulevard. A left onto 103rd would go away from Rockaway Boulevard. |
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| (299438) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Nov 3 08:51:35 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 2 09:48:25 2014. Did you see the plans? They want to eliminate all left turns at Metroplitan Avenue and at Rockaway Blvd. Cars will have to take slow roundabout routes adding ten minutes to their trip just to ake a left turn.You don't know what the plan is for the southbound left at Rockaway Boulevard, but you know what the impact will be? |
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| (299441) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 3 12:22:19 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Nov 3 08:51:35 2014. You posted the plan. That's all I know. It shows no left turn southbound at Rockaway Blvd. What do you think the impact will be? There are now at least ten cars lined up to make a left turn most of the time. The only other place they could turn is the block before. Then they will need one lane residential streets to get to Rockaway Blvd.The alternative is either to continue to provide a left turn lane and have only two lanes of traffic or to suspend the bus lane for that block which would be the thing to do. I don't see those alternatives proposed. |
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| (299444) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Nov 3 15:46:22 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 3 12:22:19 2014. You posted the plan. That's all I know. It shows no left turn southbound at Rockaway Blvd. What do you think the impact will be? There are now at least ten cars lined up to make a left turn most of the time. The only other place they could turn is the block before. Then they will need one lane residential streets to get to Rockaway Blvd.Certainly not ten minutes. If anything, cars making that left would probably turn right on 103rd Avenue, and left onto Rockaway Boulevard from 103rd. The additional 1,000 feet might add one minute to a trip. Certainly not ten minutes. There is already no left turn at 103rd, but even if it were allowed, the first street connecting 103rd to Rockaway Boulevard east of Woodhaven Boulevard is 99th Street, which isn't residential. The alternative is either to continue to provide a left turn lane and have only two lanes of traffic or to suspend the bus lane for that block which would be the thing to do. I don't see those alternatives proposed. Or narrowing the median to provide a left turn lane, keeping three lanes of through traffic and the bus lane. |
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| (299445) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 3 16:03:50 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Nov 3 15:46:22 2014. Okay. They could make a right to 103rd. But unless 94th Street were completey blocked, they woud use that instead unless no left turns are permitted from there onto Rockaway Blvd because there is so little queue space on Rockaway Blvd.An extra minute or two is plausible when there is no traffic, but certainly not during rush hours when all the streets there are packed. It woukd definitely add much more time. Guess they don't want to narrow the median so they can save a turn cycle. |
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| (299451) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Nov 4 08:01:33 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 3 16:03:50 2014. They could make a right to 103rd. But unless 94th Street were completey blocked, they woud use that instead unless no left turns are permitted from there onto Rockaway Blvd because there is so little queue space on Rockaway Blvd.Maybe. I assumed they wouldn't use 94th because the Congested Corridors Study concept shows right turn only from 94th. Queue space shouldn't be a problem because 94th is signalized, and the signals could be coordinated to control queuing. An extra minute or two is plausible when there is no traffic, but certainly not during rush hours when all the streets there are packed. It's an extra 1,000 feet (assuming traffic stays on 103rd all the way to Rockaway Boulevard; using 94th Street only adds 200 feet). Even in heavy traffic that won't add ten minutes to a trip. |
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| (299455) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 4 09:45:01 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Nov 4 08:01:33 2014. I wasn't talking about the queue space on 94th, but after you make the left onto 103rd. That's probably why they wouldn't allow a left turn there. Even an extra 1,000 feet is time consuming when traffic isn't moving.What about left turns to Metropolitan Avenue going south? cars would have to turn left at the next corner and they would need their own left turn cycle? They would have to fight the shopping center traffic as well to get back to Metropolitan. And they also want to ban the left turn at Union Turnpike except for buses, under the Congested Corridors study. You can't have a street with virtually no left turns allowed. What I don't understand is why they don't post signs telling you where the next left turn is. I once had to go out of my way an extra mile because I didn't know so many left turns we're not allowed. In fact at one of the SBS meetings one of the DOT personnel stated the same thing happened to him getting to the meeting. So the problem should be obvious to them. There are so many things that can be done to improve auto travel and safety, but DOT is only interested in SBS and Vision Zero. |
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| (299458) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Nov 4 11:35:37 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 4 09:45:01 2014. I wasn't talking about the queue space on 94th, but after you make the left onto 103rd. That's probably why they wouldn't allow a left turn there. Even an extra 1,000 feet is time consuming when traffic isn't moving.I was talking about queue space on eastbound Rockaway Boulevard between 94th Street and Woodhaven Boulevard. Yes, it's limited, but it isn't particularly challenging to manage with signal timing. The extra 1,000 feet is not going to take anywhere near ten minutes. In fact, when traffic is at its heaviest, it would take multiple cycles to turn left from Woodhaven Boulevard onto Rockaway Boulevard and the 103rd Avenue detour would probably save time. What about left turns to Metropolitan Avenue going south? cars would have to turn left at the next corner and they would need their own left turn cycle? They would have to fight the shopping center traffic as well to get back to Metropolitan. Similar to using 103rd Avenue to Rockaway Boulevard, you could use Cooper Avenue to Metropolitan. Or put the left turn lanes back into the median, but that adds a signal phase. That's why these are labeled "Conceptual design for discussion." And they also want to ban the left turn at Union Turnpike except for buses, under the Congested Corridors study. But the Congested Corridors concept has a dual left at Metropolitan, which would presumably absorb that demand. Metropolitan and Union Turnpike intersect three quarters of a mile east of Woodhaven Boulevard. There are so many things that can be done to improve auto travel and safety, but DOT is only interested in SBS and Vision Zero. Eliminating some of these lefts does a lot to improve safety. The lefts at Metropolitan and Woodhaven are permitted on the green ball, which is virtually unheard of in the civilized world with more than two lanes of opposing traffic. The left at Rockaway Boulevard is protected only, but the left through lane becomes an exclusive left turn lane, which "traps" through vehicles, causing congestion when they have to change lanes and increasing the risk of rear end crashes. |
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| (299490) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 4 18:40:13 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Nov 4 11:35:37 2014. About Metropolitan, I wasn't speaking about northbound traffic. I realize they could use Cooper. It's southbound that is problematic and what I was talking about. You would need a left turn cycle at 73rd Avenue which would cause big delays on the overpass.88 St provided a quick bypass saving 5 minutes during ties of heavy traffic, but DOT eliminated that option by forcing all cars on the service road going south to turn right onto Union Turnpike. When I told them what they did, try said they had no idea savvy drivers were using 88 St as a bypass. Regarding the protected left turn lane causing back up for through traffic at Rockaway Blvd, that has been a problem for a long time but is easily remedied. All they need to do is to provide a mid block exit to the service road north of 103 Av. I suggested that to them. Their response was " But that means we will have to cut down a few trees.". They made it sound that cutting down two trees would pose a problem. But they have no problem cutting down about 100 trees or more for SBS which of course they never bothered to mention. |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 5 08:57:52 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 4 18:40:13 2014. About Metropolitan, I wasn't speaking about northbound traffic. I realize they could use Cooper. It's southbound that is problematic and what I was talking about. You would need a left turn cycle at 73rd Avenue which would cause big delays on the overpass.I was talking about southbound. How would northbound traffic on Woodhaven Boulevard use Cooper to get to westbound Metropolitan? Southbound traffic wouldn't have to turn left at 73rd; they could turn *right* onto Cooper and left onto Metropolitan. 88 St provided a quick bypass saving 5 minutes during ties of heavy traffic, but DOT eliminated that option by forcing all cars on the service road going south to turn right onto Union Turnpike. When I told them what they did, try said they had no idea savvy drivers were using 88 St as a bypass. It's impossible that it saved time; you already said that diverting traffic onto local streets would add TEN MINUTES to travel time. I don't see how that change affects cut through traffic on 88th Street at all; the only people who would be inconvenienced much are those parked on that block of the service road. Regarding the protected left turn lane causing back up for through traffic at Rockaway Blvd, that has been a problem for a long time but is easily remedied. All they need to do is to provide a mid block exit to the service road north of 103 Av. I suggested that to them. Their response was " But that means we will have to cut down a few trees.". They made it sound that cutting down two trees would pose a problem. But they have no problem cutting down about 100 trees or more for SBS which of course they never bothered to mention. A mid block slip lane to the service road would just shift the queuing problem from the left lane at Rockaway Boulevard to the right lane north of 103rd Street. There's no way that traffic could simply merge into the service road without stopping. As far as tree removal goes, the person giving that response probably isn't the same individual responsible for developing SBS concepts. He would happy to note that at least on the block between 103rd Avenue and Liberty Avenue, 12 trees would be removed but 20 new trees would be added. |
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| (299513) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 5 11:29:50 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 5 08:57:52 2014. You really don't see Cooper backing up if all the Metroplitan left turners used Cooper to access Metropolitan? When I used Woodhaven daily for 9 years, I used at least a dozen alternates and reroutes for different parts of Woodhaven when traffic was heavy. There were big variances from day to day. Some days you could take Woodhaven all the way, and on others I would use three or four different reroutes each time getting back to Woodhaven to save time on days traffic was extra heavy. I remember days when Cooper westbound was also backed up. To add more traffic on Cooper would not be wise.And what about the angle of the streets? That is certainly not an easy turn for big trucks to negotiate, if they could do it at all. Woodhaven is the only truck route in the area. We can't just make believe that trucks don't exist. With all due respect, you may be a traffic engineer, but I actually used Woodhaven daily for nine years and still use it today. You can guess and say 88 St didn't save me time, but I can assuredly say it saved me five minutes and this is how I know. When the bridge was at a standstill, it could take at least three or four green cycles to get through Union Turnpike. I've timed those trips over the bridge as taking 10 minutes. Similarly on those days, when I used 88 St, I have reached Union Turnpike in five minutes. Even on days when I would have to wait 30 seconds for the one of two daily trains to pass, I still would save time. As further proof, I would also note an easy to spot vehicle in front of me going over the bridge like a school bus or a red SUV, then switch to 88 Street. When I would glance in my rear view mirror crossing Union Turnpike, I would always see that vehicle half way up the bridge with 20 vehicles or more still in front of it waiting to get to Union Turnpike. So I know that reroute saved me time. I am not guessing. Also, I can tell you that a mid-block slip would definitely work north of 103 St. First of all traffic on the service road is much lighter at that point than on the main roadway. Of course, cars would have to momentarily pause when switching to the service road, but that is still better than being stuck for over five minutes at a single traffic signal as is presently happening at Rockaway Blvd. Also, myself and many other savvy drivers would illegally switch to the service road at 95th Avenue when traffic permitted. On some days we would sail down the service road between 103 Street and Rockaway Blvd making the green signals at Rockaway Blvd and Liberty Avenue while the right two lanes in the main roadway were standing still. Also, for many years that switch was legal because there either was no sign to prohibit it or it had fallen off and wasn't replaced for several years. It is one thing to plan using what you learned in school and looking at data, and another to actually know what is going on from day to day because you actually experience it and live it. When I went to school, we called planners who planned from their desks "ivory tower" planners. That is exactly what DOT and you are doing today. |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 5 14:17:56 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 5 11:29:50 2014. You really don't see Cooper backing up if all the Metroplitan left turners used Cooper to access Metropolitan? When I used Woodhaven daily for 9 years, I used at least a dozen alternates and reroutes for different parts of Woodhaven when traffic was heavy. There were big variances from day to day. Some days you could take Woodhaven all the way, and on others I would use three or four different reroutes each time getting back to Woodhaven to save time on days traffic was extra heavy. I remember days when Cooper westbound was also backed up. To add more traffic on Cooper would not be wise.I don't know if it will or not; I don't have traffic counts at my disposal. I'm saying it's a possibility. It would probably operate better than the existing single left at Woodhaven and Metropolitan. And what about the angle of the streets? That is certainly not an easy turn for big trucks to negotiate, if they could do it at all. Woodhaven is the only truck route in the area. We can't just make believe that trucks don't exist. Woodhaven, Metropolitan, and Cooper are all Local Truck Routes. The left from Cooper to Metropolitan is tight but doable; I would stripe a stop line on westbound Metropolitan and shave the sidewalk on the south side of Metropolitan back a foot or two to be on the safe side.  Or trucks going to that neighborhood could use Queens Boulevard to Union Turnpike. With all due respect, you may be a traffic engineer, but I actually used Woodhaven daily for nine years and still use it today. You can guess and say 88 St didn't save me time, but I can assuredly say it saved me five minutes and this is how I know. When the bridge was at a standstill, it could take at least three or four green cycles to get through Union Turnpike. I've timed those trips over the bridge as taking 10 minutes. I'm not guessing; I'm applying your logic that forcing cars onto divergent routes would add "ten minutes to their trip." Whether it saved you time or not, I don't see how it couldn't stills save you time after the turn restriction from the service road. Union Turnpike, 81st Road, and Myrtle Avenue all get you back to Woodhaven without being forced to go west on Union Turnpike. Also, I can tell you that a mid-block slip would definitely work north of 103 St. First of all traffic on the service road is much lighter at that point than on the main roadway. Of course, cars would have to momentarily pause when switching to the service road, but that is still better than being stuck for over five minutes at a single traffic signal as is presently happening at Rockaway Blvd. "Momentarily pausing" would create a ripple effect. Maybe it could be aligned so through traffic on the service road has a stop sign and the merging traffic had the right of way. Also, myself and many other savvy drivers would illegally switch to the service road at 95th Avenue when traffic permitted. On some days we would sail down the service road between 103 Street and Rockaway Blvd making the green signals at Rockaway Blvd and Liberty Avenue while the right two lanes in the main roadway were standing still. Also, for many years that switch was legal because there either was no sign to prohibit it or it had fallen off and wasn't replaced for several years. I've done that, too (on Woodhaven, Queens Boulevard, and Kings Highway). How else are you supposed to make a right turn? Fortunately, two of the three SBS concepts eliminate that problem. It is one thing to plan using what you learned in school and looking at data, and another to actually know what is going on from day to day because you actually experience it and live it. When I went to school, we called planners who planned from their desks "ivory tower" planners. That is exactly what DOT and you are doing today. And we have an expression - "everyone who has a driver's license thinks they're a traffic engineer." The problem with designing from your personal experience is that you're only speaking from your personal experience. There are over 63,000 other drivers passing through the Woodhaven Boulevard & Rockaway Boulevard intersection every day, not to mention transit riders, pedestrians, cyclists, residents, and business owners. Their ideal solutions might not be the same as the one that saves you a couple minutes on your particular commute. The "ivory tower planners" have meetings (like the one tonight) to hear from everyone who actually experiences and lives it. |
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| (299542) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 5 18:31:05 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 5 14:17:56 2014. Your plan at Metropolitan requires trucks to make a left turn from the right lane into the right lane and it would have to be done very cautiously and would be extremely tie consuming. Doesn't at all sound like a safe plan and I do not believe it would be legal either. A single truck woud totally tie up traffic on Cooper because cars would already be lined up in the left lane waiting to make a turn. If a truck s also waiting in thrift and to ale a left, that means all traffic on Cooper comes to a complete halt until the truck makes his turn. And you don't believe it would take cars ten minutes longer to use tat route? Better think again.My reroute using 88 Street was five minutes quicker than Woodhaven because I was constantly moving, although I had to travel further, while Woodaven traffic over the bridge was standing still at least 50% of the time. if the alternative you suggest to stay on 88 St until 81 Road were viable, don't you think I would have used it. Yes, on Google Maps the street is empty, but during the evening rush hour it is solid cars between 78 Avenue and 81 Road making it just as bad as Woodhaven. Funny my personal experience is similar to the scores of other cars who were smart enough to use the same reroute as I did. It is still better than a traffic engineer who s panning with no experience at all. You supposed to make a right turn from Woodhaven by knowing not to get on the main roadway in the first place if you have to make a right. I have been to every other Woodhaven SBS meeting as well as the last Congested Corridors meeting. I am skipping the one tonight because SBS is a forgone conclusion. It does not matter what anyone says. The plan will still be implemented with many drivers inconvenienced. In order for someone to intelligently comment on the plan, they have to know what the plan is. You do that by explaining it completely by explaining all the advantages and disadvantages and showing every block ofthe plan. You proved numbers as to what you expect travel times for motorists to be as compared to the present. That will not be done. Several poster boards will be displayed showing what is already on the Internet. Mst people will not even realize from looking at the diagrams that the two left turns we dscussed will be banned. If someone asks the question, they will be answered privately so that others who do not see it will never know. That is intentional to limit knowledge and discussion. Yes, a few minor changes may be made, but this is not meaningful community participation. I have no more time to waste on these meaningless meetings. I am just glad I do not have to use Woodhaven on a daily basis anymore. Not being able to use 88 Street as I used to do would be frustrating enough. I couldn't handle more traffic and fewer lanes. I can only educate everyone as to the questions to ask which I am doing. How do I know what will happen at tonight's meeting? Because that is exactly how the B44 SBS was presented to the public. Here look at some sampe intersections and tell us what you think. There was no mention that any parking spaces will be eliminated, and when asked te question, DOT would only answer that the number would be insignificant. Also, not a word was mentioned about a lane of traffic being removed to accommodate the exclusive bus lane. It was up to you to look at the pictures and count the lanes to figure it out for yourself. Many people only believe what they are told and do not take the time to figure out what they are not told. You are told bus service will be quicker and it is up to you to figure out that car and truck travel will be slowed. Most who use Woodhaven and do not live near the corridor (and there are plenty) have absolutely no idea of what is being planned for auto traffic. They only hear bus travel will be improved but don't realize how that will be accomplished. DOT has not even stated the hours SBS will be in effect or explained the differences between SBS and BRT. The only thing that is keeping DOT from doing full BRT is they don't have the money yet. They don't care that it makes absolutely no sense at all for exclusive bus lanes on weekends because buses would save no time at all since they are already traveling at top speed. |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Nov 5 18:31:17 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 5 14:17:56 2014. Pwn3d |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Wed Nov 5 22:09:25 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 5 11:29:50 2014. That is certainly not an easy turn for big trucks to negotiate, if they could do it at all. Woodhaven is the only truck route in the area.WAAR on two counts. 1. "Large trucks" exceeding 35 feet as a single vehicle or 55 feet for tractor-trailers are illegal. Most NYC streets were built decades before 53' trailer were thought of. 2. As RIPTA stated, Cooper, and Metropolitan are local truck routes. So is the entire length of Union Turnpike. BZZZZZ please try again. |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 6 08:36:51 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Wed Nov 5 22:09:25 2014. And I suppose that a 55 foot tractor trailer could turn from the left lane into the left lane? If not, my points still stand. Now prove I am wrong. |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Nov 6 08:40:22 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 6 08:36:51 2014. No, it's up to you to prove that a 55 ft combination truck can't make that turn. You made the assertion. Now prove it. |
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| (299561) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 6 10:06:35 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 5 18:31:05 2014. Your plan at Metropolitan requires trucks to make a left turn from the right lane into the right lane and it would have to be done very cautiously and would be extremely tie consuming. Doesn't at all sound like a safe plan and I do not believe it would be legal either. A single truck woud totally tie up traffic on Cooper because cars would already be lined up in the left lane waiting to make a turn.Cooper is a single lane. There is no "right lane." It wouldn't be practical if that's a heavy truck movement, but if there are a handful of tractor trailers a day making that movement it's no big deal. If a truck s also waiting in thrift and to ale a left, that means all traffic on Cooper comes to a complete halt until the truck makes his turn. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. Something about sobriety of truck drivers? And you don't believe it would take cars ten minutes longer to use tat route? Better think again. No, I don't believe adding 820 feet to a trip would add ten minutes. My reroute using 88 Street was five minutes quicker than Woodhaven because I was constantly moving, although I had to travel further, while Woodaven traffic over the bridge was standing still at least 50% of the time. if the alternative you suggest to stay on 88 St until 81 Road were viable, don't you think I would have used it. Yes, on Google Maps the street is empty, but during the evening rush hour it is solid cars between 78 Avenue and 81 Road making it just as bad as Woodhaven. If it's "just as bad," then what difference does it make? NYCDOT doesn't have to keep an unsafe lane configuration at Woodhaven and Union Turnpike just to enable you to cut through local streets to save yourself a couple minutes. In fact, it's better that they prevent you from cutting through local streets. Funny my personal experience is similar to the scores of other cars who were smart enough to use the same reroute as I did. It is still better than a traffic engineer who s panning with no experience at all. No, it's worse, because those "scores of cars" are "planning" for their own personal convenience at one narrow time of day and ignoring entire picture. It's as if the streets cease to exist outside the afternoon rush hour! You supposed to make a right turn from Woodhaven by knowing not to get on the main roadway in the first place if you have to make a right. If you're coming from north of Union Turnpike, you can't get on the service road until Myrtle Avenue unless you divert through local streets to 88th Street and Union Turnpike. Then if you want to turn right at Rockaway Boulevard, you have to get on the service road a mile and quarter in advance at Park Lane South. The service road should be for local traffic only. I have been to every other Woodhaven SBS meeting as well as the last Congested Corridors meeting. I am skipping the one tonight because SBS is a forgone conclusion. It does not matter what anyone says. The plan will still be implemented with many drivers inconvenienced. SBS may be a foregone conclusion. How it will be implemented is still being discussed, including details like where left turn lanes are needed, or how those movements would be made in their absence. Several poster boards will be displayed showing what is already on the Internet. Mst people will not even realize from looking at the diagrams that the two left turns we dscussed will be banned. If someone asks the question, they will be answered privately so that others who do not see it will never know. That is intentional to limit knowledge and discussion. Yes, displaying a median and a through arrow on the pavement is deliberately hiding a plan to eliminate a left turn lane.  I am just glad I do not have to use Woodhaven on a daily basis anymore. In that case, I'm glad you didn't go to the meeting. How do I know what will happen at tonight's meeting? Because that is exactly how the B44 SBS was presented to the public. Here look at some sampe intersections and tell us what you think. There was no mention that any parking spaces will be eliminated, and when asked te question, DOT would only answer that the number would be insignificant. It's at the conceptual stage; the actual number won't be known until it's actually designed. It's clear from the drawings that plan is to have the bus lane and the parking lane peacefully coexist, probably with a space or two eliminated at the stations. Also, not a word was mentioned about a lane of traffic being removed to accommodate the exclusive bus lane. It was up to you to look at the pictures and count the lanes to figure it out for yourself. The presentation clearly says "Bus lanes and 3 lanes of general traffic in each direction with renderings and plan views of each concept. Most who use Woodhaven and do not live near the corridor (and there are plenty) have absolutely no idea of what is being planned for auto traffic. The people who do live near the corridor (60 percent of whom commute by transit and 43 percent of whom do not even have a car) have to live with it daily. Their needs have to be balanced with the needs of peak hour commuter traffic. DOT has not even stated the hours SBS will be in effect or explained the differences between SBS and BRT. The only thing that is keeping DOT from doing full BRT is they don't have the money yet. They don't care that it makes absolutely no sense at all for exclusive bus lanes on weekends because buses would save no time at all since they are already traveling at top speed. Those are operational considerations that don't have much bearing at the conceptual phase. It's not like the curbs are going to move on weekends. |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 6 10:10:04 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Nov 6 08:40:22 2014. No, it's up to you to prove that a 55 ft combination truck can't make that turn. You made the assertion. Now prove it.I already proved it could, although it's tight. It wouldn't be practical if there are more than a few WB-50s a day. |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Nov 6 12:40:12 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 6 10:10:04 2014. You are so giving of yourself. |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 6 18:37:29 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 6 10:10:04 2014. From your diagram, it looks like it is turning from the right lane into the right lane which would be illegal. Are you know stating that one could turn from the left lane of Cooper onto the left lane of Metropolitan? |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Nov 7 05:55:31 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 6 18:37:29 2014. From your diagram, it looks like it is turning from the right lane into the right lane which would be illegal. Are you know stating that one could turn from the left lane of Cooper onto the left lane of Metropolitan?Cooper is a single lane approach, and I couldn't find anything in the NYS VAT or NYCTRR requiring a left turn into the left lane of the departing street, except when the departing street is one way. As I've said before, it's not ideal and not practical if it's a heavy truck movement, but it is possible if there are only a handful of trucks making that left. |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Nov 7 08:35:05 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Nov 7 05:55:31 2014. Pwn3d |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Nov 7 14:45:05 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Nov 7 05:55:31 2014. Since few cars are usually parked along the cemetery side of the street, the parking lane is usually used for right turns and through traffic when cars are waiting to make a left turn which keeps traffic moving. If the Metropolitan Avenue turn is banned as proposed, that would have to be formalized with parking banned for at least several hundred feet before the intersection of Cooper and Metropolitan, otherwise traffic will not move.I would have to check the driver's manual, but that's what I remember. That when making a left turn from the left lane, you must enter the left most lane if there is more than one lane. Similarly, when making a right turn from the right most lane, you are also required to enter the rightmost lane. Big trucks often cannot comply and therefore do not. It is certainly not optimal to create more situations where this would occur. |
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| (299653) | |
Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sat Nov 8 22:23:57 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Nov 7 14:45:05 2014. Since few cars are usually parked along the cemetery side of the street, the parking lane is usually used for right turns and through traffic when cars are waiting to make a left turn which keeps traffic moving. If the Metropolitan Avenue turn is banned as proposed, that would have to be formalized with parking banned for at least several hundred feet before the intersection of Cooper and Metropolitan, otherwise traffic will not move.Yes, it would. I would have to check the driver's manual, but that's what I remember. That when making a left turn from the left lane, you must enter the left most lane if there is more than one lane. Similarly, when making a right turn from the right most lane, you are also required to enter the rightmost lane. Big trucks often cannot comply and therefore do not. It is certainly not optimal to create more situations where this would occur. Driver's manual or not, the law says it isn't illegal. I think it's obvious that if it's physically impossible for a truck to turn into the leftmost lane on an otherwise legal turn that it would have to do so anyway. I agree it isn't optimal (nor is it practical if that's a heavy truck movement), but it is possible. |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 8 23:09:59 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sat Nov 8 22:23:57 2014. Just because you are a traffic engineer, I am supposed to believe you that traffic on Cooper woud not be backed up to Woodhaven with only one lane for through traffic and for left turns? The green on Cooper is no longer than 60 seconds. If one car has to make a left turn, he will hold up all traffic until the opposing traffic passes.What if two cars must make a left? How many cars will be able to get through that light? But wait! Just today I was on Woodhaven on Saturday morning. Hardly the peak. I counted 11southbound cars waiting to make a left onto Metropolitan. That means those 11 cars would have had to make a right on Cooper and a left on Metropolitan. How many cycles would it take for 11 cars to make that left? And while they are waiting to make that left, with only one lane no cars would be able to proceed west on Cooper or Metropolitan. And that is on a Saturday morning at 10 AM. More cars would want to turn left when there is more traffic during the peak hour and there also would be more traffic on Cooper. And you could tell me with a straight face that traffic would move? And we haven't even mentioned trucks. Sorry I don't believe you. |
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Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 9 09:45:55 2014, in response to Re: ''World Class Bus Rapid Transit'' for Woodhaven Blvd... lol, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 8 23:09:59 2014. You're a funny guy. Funny, but WRONG. |
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