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| Re: WillD lacks experience and perspective (12718) | |
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Re: WillD lacks experience and perspective |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 12:29:28 2006, in response to Ron hates Transit Infrastructure (was:Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR...), posted by WillD on Sat Jul 29 23:50:53 2006. "If you were to actually live in the area you'd see that SEPTA has rebuilt the Subway Surface tracks to the point where they're a simple T-rail with a plastic or rubber flangeway mounted in concrete. This design has a minimal effect on tires when compared to the previous girder rail installations"No, it has less effect on tires, but not "minimal." It chews them up more slowly, but that still isn't good. That i and of itself would be OK if reactivating the line were desirable overall (cost-benefit). SEPTA has decided it is not, and I agree. "SEPTA has a history of destroying perfectly good trolley and electric rail routes for no good reason" According to some people. "No good reason" just means you're too closed-minded to understand what the opposing reasons are. That's typical for a young engineer with little experience and no administrative or political savvy. That takes time to pick up. You don't know why the Streets Dept. put the rails back in. It could be that the Mayor wants to preserve the trolley option (and make sure voters know it) even if some of his own engineers do not fully agree with it (I don't know what their opinions are and neither do you). PennDOT may not care one way or the other. The City asks for money to do something, and PennDOT says OK as long as it's not terribly objectionable in the big scheme of things. You are assuming that PennDOT has an opinion when in fact you don't know. They might, but even if they did they are more credible to you because you agree with them. So they are more credible to you, which is not the same as more credible in general. "We've been over the emergency vehicle issues and while you can claim all you want that the fire department needs Germantown I've actually talked to firefighters and ambulance drivers who have explicitly stated that unless an emergency is located on Germantown they'll take alternate routes to get to a call." Because Germantown is already traffic-laden. When I lived there I saw at least a half-dozen police cars and other emergency vehicles trying to negotiate Germantown Av. "arking along Germantown Ave is such that no SEPTA bus is ever going to find 60 or even 40 feet to get out of traffic" True part of the time, not all of it. The bus, additionally, can pull over at at intersection if the light is green and pedestrians are not directly in the way. This results in the bus blocking the pedestrian crosswalk while the police officer or ambulance passes. "You do realize that without the 23 a restored 56 is an isolated line, right?" Is there a law against SEPTA creating a new depot for the 56? But you do bring up a possible compromise: the tracks on Germantown Av could be preserved and maintained for emergency use only. If we were to accept your argument that the new tracks are not harmful to tires, then we can do this: Remove the catenary and substation infrastructure needed for Germantown av per se, because maintaining that costs more than any "tow benefit" you get, but you can still tow the disabled trolley with a diesel vehicle while the trolley stays on the tracks. You have a long way to go before you mature as a professional engineer, Will. You do some pretty nifty things now but you know just enough to get yourself and others in trouble if you tried making supervisory or higher-level policy decisions. Keep working, learning and make sure you pay attention to your breadth of education, and you'll be fine. Oh, and while posting on subchat is harmless and fun (usually) I hope you understand when you need to keep your mouth shut at work. For one thing, it's hard for you to listen whe you're talking. Also, until you gain political or moral credence in your work place, that can be much of the time. |
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Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 12:32:25 2006, in response to Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:22:40 2006. I didn't say it was crowded. I said it wasn't empty. You defined it as empty, then tried to qualify it.President Clinton could have used your services when he met Monica. You could have advised him on how to say "Not quite ejaculated" or "not quite swalloewed" or "not totally sex" in response to questions from the press. |
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Re: WillD has much more experience and perspective than you do |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 12:34:55 2006, in response to Re: WillD lacks experience and perspective, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 12:29:28 2006. Subject line corrected.You do have more experience in making ad hominem attacks than he does, however. |
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Re: WillD has MUCH more experience and perspective than you do, also higer IQ |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 30 12:41:58 2006, in response to Re: WillD has much more experience and perspective than you do, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 12:34:55 2006. I agree. |
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Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 12:44:16 2006, in response to Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 12:32:25 2006. I didn't say it was crowded. I said it wasn't empty.Liar. You said it was "full of people" (and then you tried to qualify your claim). You defined it as empty, then tried to qualify it.No, I defined it as empty in comparison to NYCT loading guidelines -- you know, the guidelines that the folks who write service plans and schedules consult to determine adequate levels of service. |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 12:50:32 2006, in response to Re: Ron's Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by WillD on Sun Jul 30 02:45:08 2006. Your basic point about light rail not being useless in general is a good one. However, you stumble here:"Too bad the MTA shares your close minded outlook." Your lack of experience and knowledge comes into play here. Why would MTA not build light rail? 1) NIMBY factor - why? Because politiciansd call MTA and and the Governor and if they out muscle the proponents MTA has to hesitate. That's deomocracy. In the Soviet Union and in China today, it was/is much easier to get things done. You just throw opponents in jail. 2) Introducing light rail: Unlike NJT, MTA has no in-house experience in light rail, nor support infrastructure. Supporting light rail means hiring engineers, administrators and operators who know all about it, if you want to avoid mistakes and pitfalls. One way to do that might be to ask NJT or SEPTA or MBTA to build and run it on contract while you get your own organization up and running. The legal, administrative and political hurdles are enormous (but it's not impossible to do). That's why you really need to think this through. You think about the tracks and the wheels and the electricity, and forget that this is also about people. If people do not agree with you, they are closed-minded, morons or just incompetent. Do you know what they really think over at 2 Broadway? If MTA hired you tomorrow, would you be able to handle it? I'm happy to see the Rockaway ROW turn into an expansion of a park. If light rail advocates were to succeed in getting a trolley up there, fine too. I'm not going to oppose it, even if I live there. I'm not saying you are wrong about light rail. But successful engineers always think about people. Kelly Johnson, Ben Rich and Ed Heinemann (look them up!) are legends in aerospace engineering NOT just because they knew their science, but because THEY UNDERSTOOD THEIR AUDIENCE AND UNDERSTOOD THE POLITICS and how to handle them. Hyman Rickover understood reactors and control rods and submarines and he seemed always to be able to get around people who opposed him not because he was so superior in science (he was superior, but so what?) but because he had patrons and he was careful never to cross them. It takes time to pick up on that - and you're not there yet. |
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Re: Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs to die now |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 30 12:52:18 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 12:50:32 2006. subject fixed |
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Re: Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Jul 30 12:57:00 2006, in response to Re: Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs to die now, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 30 12:52:18 2006. Even though no one should deserve to die, Ronnie baby deserves a total and permanent ban here.Brian, you took it a bit too far here. |
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Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here? |
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Posted by New Brunswick Station on Sun Jul 30 13:02:03 2006, in response to Re: Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Jul 30 12:57:00 2006. I'm not convinced that Ron needs a "total and permanent b7" - even though he's annoying, this isn't exactly the sorta post that I would go b7ing RonisBS from Subchat over. |
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Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 13:03:40 2006, in response to Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here?, posted by New Brunswick Station on Sun Jul 30 13:02:03 2006. I agree with that. He can be annoying and downright mean to some people sometimes, but I can't see anything warranting banning of all things.This is an internet board, sometimes people take this way too seriously. People have done a lot lot worse than Ron has ever done, and they are still here..... |
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Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here? |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Jul 30 13:11:26 2006, in response to Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here?, posted by New Brunswick Station on Sun Jul 30 13:02:03 2006. Really? Ron attacks at least eight people, including myself, in telling us to either grow up. He tells an Engineering grad in Philadelphia that he knows nothing about LRT even though Ron does not live anywhere near Philly. He tells a Stuyvesant H.S. grad to study more and go back to school even though I am sure this grad (and fellow Ultimate Rider) is working through college, not sure though. Ron tells a math professor from Kingsborough C.C. to sto acting immature even though the professor knows just as much transit as he does in math. He loves to spate to Brian, even though Brian should cool it at times. He has given false statements and assumptions on this board, I can attest to that.Do you think that is right to flame and attack these 8 people like that? |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 13:12:03 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 12:50:32 2006. Cut the stupid ad hominems. In general, I don't agree with WillD on light rail issues, but I don't insult him because of it. If I decide to enter into a debate with him, I debate him on the issues.Some people descend into ad hominems when they've lost an argument and don't want to admit it. Some don't even try to win the argument; they jump straight into the ad hominems. That seems to happen incredibly frequently to you. Perhaps you should take a break from this board and take John's suggestions. |
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Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here? |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 13:12:46 2006, in response to Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 13:03:40 2006. Who? |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 13:18:32 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 13:12:03 2006. "If I decide to enter into a debate with him, I debate him on the issues."And one legitimate issue is that a lack of experience and a narrow education leads to the kind of expression often seen on this board. That's not an insult. If you don't like it, that's too bad. You don't have to read the post or respond to it if you don't want to. |
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Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 30 13:19:44 2006, in response to Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by WillD on Sun Jul 30 03:39:49 2006. I think that your cost estimate for light rail construction is on the low side. Look at new light rail construction costs in places like NJ and LA for a more realistic estimate. |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 13:29:28 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 13:18:32 2006. If you merely peppered your arguments with insults, that would merely be rude.But you present insults instead of arguments. You think Will is wrong? Fine, tell us how he's wrong. Don't tell us that he's wrong because he doesn't have experience or because he has Asperger's or because he's a railbuff or because he writes down car serial numbers -- he didn't ask for your advice and the rest of us don't care. |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 13:34:26 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 13:29:28 2006. That about sums it up. |
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Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 13:36:14 2006, in response to Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here?, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 13:12:46 2006. Heh, I know it's tough (wow is it tough), but I think the racists remarks some people post here sometimes are worse. And there are some people that came and are gone over time. |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 13:42:50 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 13:29:28 2006. "Don't tell us that he's wrong because he doesn't have experience "He doesn't. "because he has Asperger's or because he's a railbuff or because he writes down car serial numbers " That's your problem, not his. :0) |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 13:44:31 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 13:42:50 2006. Oh well, I tried. |
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Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here? |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 13:45:44 2006, in response to Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 13:36:14 2006. What racist remarks? |
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Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jul 30 13:53:49 2006, in response to Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 10:33:50 2006. Right. And a Pelham Parkway LRT to replace the Bx12 would largely be able to run off-street in the median of Pelham Parkway. |
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Re: Subway vs. LRT costs |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 13:59:33 2006, in response to Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by WillD on Sun Jul 30 03:39:49 2006. "For the 8 to 10 miles of the Second Avenue Subway you could potentially have 80 to 100 route miles of light rail track filling in the gaps the subway system was created with."No. You might have 25-30 miles of LRT for that much if you paid close attention to the budget. |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 14:01:49 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 13:44:31 2006. No, you didn't. |
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Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 14:07:45 2006, in response to Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jul 30 13:53:49 2006. No, that's a street; it's just a bus lane in the middle of the street. It's still subject to the same traffic signals as the rest of Pelham Parkway (except that now buses will conflict with traffic in the same direction turning left, leading to even longer red phases). All you've done is move the bus stops to a less convenient location, make it impossible to run both limited and local service, and increase headways -- at very substantial capital cost. |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 14:08:13 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 14:01:49 2006. I rest my case. |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 14:12:57 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 14:08:13 2006. Maybe you should just rest. |
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Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jul 30 14:16:30 2006, in response to Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 14:07:45 2006. Pelham Parkway isn't a typical street. It consists of two streets along the edges of a park corridor, through which the LRT would be routed with minimal interference from other vehicles. |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 14:18:03 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 14:12:57 2006. Speak for yourself. |
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Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 14:23:39 2006, in response to Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jul 30 14:16:30 2006. I'm familiar with Pelham Parkway.The median still has the same cross streets as the existing roadways. It would have the same red lights as the existing roadways -- except that, with through traffic (LRV's) traveling to the left of left-turning traffic, signal phasing would, by necessity, be more complex and would cause delays for traffic on both sides. A pair of bus lanes on the existing roadways would serve the exact same function -- but at lower cost, with greater operational flexibility, and with more convenient and more frequent service for the passengers. |
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Re: WillD needs to learn more. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 30 14:49:57 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 13:34:26 2006. Yup. |
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Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sun Jul 30 16:58:07 2006, in response to Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by Easy on Sun Jul 30 13:19:44 2006. Overkill drives costs up. KISS and his figures might be realistic. |
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Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here? |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sun Jul 30 17:00:02 2006, in response to Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here?, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 13:45:44 2006. Salami doesn't like mayonnaise. |
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Re: Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sun Jul 30 17:01:53 2006, in response to Re: Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Jul 30 12:57:00 2006. Slap her with a dick. |
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Germantown Ave's Abandoned Tracks (was: Rockaway Beach Line's Abandoned Tracks...) |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Jul 30 17:29:55 2006, in response to Re: WillD lacks experience and perspective, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 12:29:28 2006. No, it has less effect on tires, but not "minimal." It chews them up more slowly, but that still isn't good.Really? What extended first hand experience do you have with the newly installed rail on the Rt15 or Subway Surface lines? It's important to note that most of this reconstruction has been done since 2002, by which time I do believe you would not be a resident of Philadelphia. reactivating the line were desirable overall (cost-benefit). SEPTA has decided it is not, and I agree. It's in SEPTA's capital budget, so somebody somewhere in SEPTA thinks it's worth the effort. You can hide behind SEPTA's inept attitude toward fixed guideway transit, but it's clear that when the Rt15 can be returned to service for somewhere around 10 or 15 million dollars a mile it's hard to see how the 23 or 56 could have an undesirable cost/benefit ratio. For little more than what the three generations of bus fleets for the 23 would cost over 40 years you could likely rebuild the 23 and equip it with one generation of LRVs which would reduce operational costs relative to the bus fleets. Unless you're going to start BSing about emergency vehicles inducing a cost which cannot be quantified it's pretty hard to argue with those numbers. You don't know why the Streets Dept. put the rails back in. It could be that the Mayor wants to preserve the trolley option (and make sure voters know it) even if some of his own engineers do not fully agree with it (I don't know what their opinions are and neither do you). Actually I do, and if you paid attention to the Philadelphia Inquirer and other local media perhaps you would too. For those members who weren't paying attention the tracks are being replaced because the Chestnut Hill merchants along Germantown Ave feel that the 23's tracks increase the attraction of their business district. This is in marked contrast to the business owners along Torresdale Avenue, who blamed the 56's decrepit track for their decline and wouldn't hear of track replacement. Now Torresdale Avenue has been paved, and the businesses are still in decline as their potential customers drive to Cottman Center and Franklin Mills. If you think that Mayor Street, or his undoubted replacement, Michael Nutter, actually gives a crap about Philadelphia's transit then why don't I just sell you Germantown Avenue? You can make the check out to "Cash" and there's no need to fill in any specific dollar amount, just sign it. I am going to need you to refinance your house and deposit that money in your checking account before the transaction can go through. Because Germantown is already traffic-laden. When I lived there I saw at least a half-dozen police cars and other emergency vehicles trying to negotiate Germantown Av. Well at least you finally admit that emergency vehicles don't use Germantown Avenue because it's already an insanely congested. I notice that you're still being vague as to how many vehicles you saw. Is that a half dozen vehicles a minute, an hour, a day or, per week? A half dozen emergency vehicles with lights flashing per day seems to be about right from the time I've spent along Germantown Avenue. That's in stark contrast to Chew Ave, Stenton Ave, or Lincoln Drive, where it's quite common to see upwards of a dozen emergency vehicles just during a 6 to 7 hour midday period. And if you want a street which is truely crowded with emergency vehicle traffic then Chestnut St around 37th would certainly be up there, since I once counted 50 ambulance, fire, and police vehicles travelling with their lights on in a 20 hour period (yes, most were ambulances likely going to HUP). By comparison Germantown Avenue is just too narrow and congested for emergency vehicles and since ordinary traffic isn't going to attempt the manuvers a police officer would try why not run LRVs there? True part of the time, not all of it. The bus, additionally, can pull over at at intersection if the light is green and pedestrians are not directly in the way. This results in the bus blocking the pedestrian crosswalk while the police officer or ambulance passes. Most of the time the cross streets to Germantown are around 20 to 30 feet wide. A few somewhat major cross streets like Chelten and Upsal may have two traffic lanes, a pair of parking lanes, and maybe even a Bike lane for somewhere between 45 and 50 feet of width, but other streets like Walnut and Washington Lanes, and most other cross streets usually have some form of three lanes, be it two traffic lanes and a parking lane, or vice versa. These three lane roads are usually 30 feet wide or less and, even if the bus stop and corner parking requirements on Germantown are respected, would present difficulties to 40 foot buses to use, and would be next to impossible for the 60 foot buses you've advocated to negotiate. Is there a law against SEPTA creating a new depot for the 56? Not at all. I've frequently suggested SEPTA build a new LRV depot on Midvale's sprawling grounds, which would place the 23 and 56's depot at the western end of the 56. However, if you build that depot for the 56 alone then you're incurring a fixed cost which is not spread among the passengers for both lines, so the all important dollar per passenger number would go up. Also since you initially called for the 23 to be completely destroyed without leaving any sort of diversion route you'd either be forced to replicate Woodland Depot's actions at Midvale, or truck LRVs between Midvale and Woodland for heavy work. But at least you saw how stupid it sounded to isolate one line from the rest of the network: If we were to accept your argument that the new tracks are not harmful to tires, then we can do this: Remove the catenary and substation infrastructure needed for Germantown av per se, because maintaining that costs more than any "tow benefit" you get, but you can still tow the disabled trolley with a diesel vehicle while the trolley stays on the tracks ::Smacks head on desk:: WHAT? What happened to your "Trolleybuses can use the 23's power infrastructure" argument? Once again you're giving in to your NCL tendancies and advocating the destruction of a perfectly good transit infrastructure. I can't believe I friggin have to hold your hand and form your arguments for you, but this should work. Have SEPTA build the Midvale Rt56 depot, and restore the 56 to LRV operation. Then convert the 23 to Trolleybus operation with the operations shared between Southern Depot and Midvale, which would require installing wire at Midvale and a deadhead route out of the depot to Germantown Ave. Then tear up all track between Mermaid Loop (or perhaps Germantown Depot) and Erie Ave or so, for your bus. This leaves the track between Mermaid or Germantown Depot and Chestnut Hill Loops for a potential future tourist trolley to distribute shoppers throughout the Chestnut Hill commercial district. South of Erie you'd at least need the tracks down to Girard to access the rest of the network, but I'd argue that everything south of there should be retained, even if it's just for a future historic trolley or something. Now that you definitely have tracks between Erie and Girard on Germantown, 11th, and 12th you need a vehicle to tow your LRV between Midvale and Woodland Depots. If the 56 is done with a catenary and pantograph system then this vehicle would need both a pantograph and a trolley pole. An LRV being towed out of Midvale would have the tow vehicle use a pantograph down Erie to either Germantown or Old York Rd, wherever the 23 Diversion Route had a junction with the 56's track on Erie. Wherever the towed LRV joins the Route 23 ETB, be it Germantown and Erie (and Broad), or Germantown and Old York (and Rising Sun Ave), the tow vehicle would drop it's pantograph and the pole would be raised to contact the left ETB wire. This would provide power between Erie and Girard Avenue, at which point a special trolley frog would be placed which would automatically divert the tow vehicle's trolley pole onto the diverging route for Girard Ave. From there south to Woodland the vehicle would either use a trolley pole if the Subway Surface overhead remains unimproved, or a pantograph if SEPTA actually gets around to fixing it up. Seems a hell of a lot easier (and cheaper) to me to just bring back the 23 as an LRV than to go through all those contortions just to avoid a major cost. You have a long way to go before you mature as a professional engineer, Will. You do some pretty nifty things now but you know just enough to get yourself and others in trouble if you tried making supervisory or higher-level policy decisions. Better to be a "could someday be" than a "never was". :) Oh, and while posting on subchat is harmless and fun (usually) I hope you understand when you need to keep your mouth shut at work. Hell no! I yelled "get me a shovel" at my boss at the Philly Water Dept (who is now head of the Load Control) after a disagreement over what was in a sand filled sewer cover. I asserted it was a valve, while he was under the impression it was a stuck sanitary sewer water cover, but called in the Vacuum Truck crew and it turned out to be a valve. When I worked for a survey crew I had a running political debate with my Crew Chief. And just the other day I got yelled at by my current employer for cursing and saying "Nobody thinks around here". Of course if I was working at somewhere I actually wanted to spend an extended period with I might look at it somewhat differently. |
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Re: Germantown Ave's Abandoned Tracks (was: Rockaway Beach Line's Abandoned Tracks...) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 18:31:26 2006, in response to Germantown Ave's Abandoned Tracks (was: Rockaway Beach Line's Abandoned Tracks...), posted by WillD on Sun Jul 30 17:29:55 2006. "For those members who weren't paying attention the tracks are being replaced because the Chestnut Hill merchants along Germantown Ave feel that the 23's tracks increase the attraction of their business district."If that is the case, then of course we're talking aesthetics, not function. The merchants attitude has nothing to do with whether or not the tracks function. So you can rip down the catenary and leave the tracks for their effect. And this confirms you do NOT know what the streets dept engineers are thinking. "If you think that Mayor Street, or his undoubted replacement, Michael Nutter, actually gives a crap about Philadelphia's transit " If they don't, it again proves my point. "Is that a half dozen vehicles a minute, an hour, a day or, per week?" Per day. I worked out of my house and could hear and see them passing. "Have SEPTA build the Midvale Rt56 depot, and restore the 56 to LRV operation. Then convert the 23 to Trolleybus operation with the operations shared between Southern Depot and Midvale, which would require installing ..." Nice fantasy, but to whom and how are you going to sell any plan? I said I wouldn't be opposed to a trolley bus on Germantown Av but if SEPTA leaves the route just as it is (bus only) I'd understand. Maybe they could use hybrid buses or CNG buses to reduce pollution. I tink there are parts of the route which are dense enough to support a two-track subway under Germantown Av. SEPTA would never get the money to do it but a Germantown Av subway line (call it the Purple Line, what the hell) once in operation would provide rapid transit service and not clog any streets. It might even help reduce congestion, and of course it would help Philadelphians who do not own cars (of which there are many). "Better to be a "could someday be" than a "never was"." I'm confident you'll get there. You go to a great school, you had to be bright to get in, and Drexel opens lots of doors for its graduates. Go out there and be the Chief Engineer of the next Philadelphia subway or rail project - or what the hell, put the trolley back on Germantown Av. But I want YOU to do it, so you can say "See Ron, you were wrong!" and mean it, and I can clap for your accomplishment. |
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Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here? |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jul 30 18:40:28 2006, in response to Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Jul 30 13:11:26 2006. To add another "victim" to your list (# 9), Ron has also attacked a C/R from NJ Transit (me) on a couple of occaisions. I guess the fact that I spend about 10 hours a day working for a commuter railroad brings less credibilty to this board than an "armchair" transit fan like Dr. Aryel. |
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Re: NJT Conductors can be crybabies too |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 18:43:10 2006, in response to Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here?, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jul 30 18:40:28 2006. "I guess the fact that I spend about 10 hours a day working for a commuter railroad"Means you have an honorable job, not that you post well on-line, or that you can't whine with the best of them. |
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Re: NJT Conductors can be crybabies too |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jul 30 18:44:29 2006, in response to Re: NJT Conductors can be crybabies too, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 18:43:10 2006. Who's crying? The fact that you think that your opinions are more valid than actual facts is the issue here. |
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Re: NJT Conductors can be crybabies too |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 18:46:58 2006, in response to Re: NJT Conductors can be crybabies too, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jul 30 18:44:29 2006. "Who's crying? "You are. Stop whining about your thin skin and move on. |
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Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch |
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Posted by American Pig on Sun Jul 30 18:47:36 2006, in response to Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sat Jul 29 01:19:13 2006. Parsons/Archer is certainly south of Hillside. |
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Re: NJT Conductors can be crybabies too |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jul 30 18:49:56 2006, in response to Re: NJT Conductors can be crybabies too, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 18:46:58 2006. Here we go again. :-)Exhibit "A". |
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Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 18:53:06 2006, in response to Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Jul 29 01:34:23 2006. Where would you say it ends on the eastern side? 179 Terrace or so? south of Jamaica is Addesleigh Park but I don't know what you'd consider the "border." |
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Re: Dr. Ron M. Aryel of Kansas City think he's a f_cking god |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 30 18:54:18 2006, in response to Re: NJT Conductors can be crybabies too, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jul 30 18:49:56 2006. see subject |
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Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here? |
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Posted by American Pig on Sun Jul 30 19:06:51 2006, in response to Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 13:03:40 2006. False. This isn't an isolated incident. Most of Ron's posts are condescending and belittling. He does not respect anyone here, he does not belong. |
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Re: Growing up on Subtalk |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 19:10:41 2006, in response to Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here?, posted by American Pig on Sun Jul 30 19:06:51 2006. They can't be condescending if I'm reaching you at your level. and, in fact, I am.I'm disappointed, Morris. I thought you'd made more progress than this. Oh well. |
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Re: Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs to expire |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 30 19:13:38 2006, in response to Re: Growing up on Subtalk, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 19:10:41 2006. would you cry? |
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Re: Ron needs to learn how to write better arguments |
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Posted by JohnL on Sun Jul 30 19:16:53 2006, in response to Re: WillD needs to learn more., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 12:50:32 2006. Let’s review:Your basic point about light rail not being useless in general is a good one. However, you stumble here: Oh dear, stumble! Perjorative word. Insult couched as fact. Maybe a phrase “I think you missed som political points…” "Too bad the MTA shares your close minded outlook." From WillD’s post. Not a good sentence, but there is some frustration here. Your lack of experience and knowledge comes into play here. Why would MTA not build light rail? Let’s delete the first sentence, as it is condescending. Perhaps phrase it as “From an engineering point of view…but there are other factors…” 1) NIMBY factor - why? Because politiciansd call MTA and and the Governor and if they out muscle the proponents MTA has to hesitate. That's deomocracy. In the Soviet Union and in China today, it was/is much easier to get things done. You just throw opponents in jail. Good point. 2) Introducing light rail: Unlike NJT, MTA has no in-house experience in light rail, nor support infrastructure. Supporting light rail means hiring engineers, administrators and operators who know all about it, if you want to avoid mistakes and pitfalls. One way to do that might be to ask NJT or SEPTA or MBTA to build and run it on contract while you get your own organization up and running. Good point: John comment: Most likely true. We don’t know that the MTA has no in-house expertise, we do know that the MTA isn’t responsible for a light rail system. But it’s also possible to build up the expertise while someone else builds the system. The legal, administrative and political hurdles are enormous (but it's not impossible to do). Maybe true. You don’t say why. I think I would disagree with this as there are currently two high-profile DBOM contracts in the region that I can think of off the top of my head: JFK AirTrain and the RiverLine. That's why you really need to think this through. You think about the tracks and the wheels and the electricity, and forget that this is also about people. If people do not agree with you, they are closed-minded, morons or just incompetent. Do you know what they really think over at 2 Broadway? If MTA hired you tomorrow, would you be able to handle it? Delete paragraph. Condescending and doesn’t add to the argument. I'm happy to see the Rockaway ROW turn into an expansion of a park. If light rail advocates were to succeed in getting a trolley up there, fine too. I'm not going to oppose it, even if I live there. I'm not saying you are wrong about light rail. But successful engineers always think about people. Kelly Johnson, Ben Rich and Ed Heinemann (look them up!) are legends in aerospace engineering NOT just because they knew their science, but because THEY UNDERSTOOD THEIR AUDIENCE AND UNDERSTOOD THE POLITICS and how to handle them. Hyman Rickover understood reactors and control rods and submarines and he seemed always to be able to get around people who opposed him not because he was so superior in science (he was superior, but so what?) but because he had patrons and he was careful never to cross them. Irrelevant. The main job of an engineer is to be an engineer and come up with engineering solutions. Other members of a team work the financial/social/political aspects. I can assure you that the chief engineer of ESA (to pick a project at random) spends a relatively small portion of his time dealing with NIMBY issues, though he (she?) may attend outreach meetings occasionally to present some of the engineering issues of the construction. It takes time to pick up on that - and you're not there yet. More condescention. Strike. |
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Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 30 19:22:19 2006, in response to Re: does Dr. Ron M. Aryel needs be B7d from here?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Jul 30 13:11:26 2006. Email or IM me when you get a chance... |
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Re: Growing up on Subtalk |
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Posted by JohnL on Sun Jul 30 19:22:58 2006, in response to Re: Growing up on Subtalk, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 30 19:10:41 2006. They can't be condescending if I'm reaching you at your level. and, in fact, I am.I disagree. A not-insignificant number of your posts are condescending. You are not reaching anyone at any level except to annoy them. However, as part of my educational service (have you taken any action about the course suggestions yet?) I will point out the condescending portions of your posts so you can learn to avoid these remarks. Yours in education. |
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