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Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch

Posted by WillD on Sun Jul 30 03:39:49 2006, in response to Re: oops. the full post. (Re: My Route Suggestion of the Old Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 02:21:06 2006.

You're massively overstating the cost to start up an LRV line. It's clear that a high capacity, relatively high speed LRT service can be initated for roughly 20 to 25 million dollars a mile, you'd be hard pressed to build a subway for ten times that price. For every year you run that LRV after it's built it will save money relative to the buses it replaced, and for some reason LRVs usually attract considerably more passenger than the buses they replace, so you'd also likely see a ridership increase.

You also greatly overstate the difficulties storage and maitenance of LRVs would present. NYCTA clearly has considerable experience with 600-750 volt DC IGBT driven AC powertrains, they have experience with articulation joints, and they certainly can repair a body, so I fail to see how LRVs are supposed to be some great new surprise for them. You think they'll be confused by the track brakes or something? Yes, NYCTA would have to either acquire property for an LRT depot, or would have to designate space within an existing facility to the storage and repair of those vehicles, but that's hardly something which should eliminate them from consideration.

When did a line being PACKED mean that it needed to be replaced by LRT? Buses are often crowded, but not for very long; usually for a short distance from important travel points. Building an LRT would certainly help in the immediate vicinity of the Subway stations, but would mark wasteful spending once you get away from them.

I.E. my time on the B6 has revealed to me that it is crowded Right at Nostrand, but by Utica, it's comfortable. That does not justify building an LRT.


So if I ride the 6 train and I'm cheek to jowl with my fellow passengers until East 149th then I shouldn't look to the SAS to help out any? By the standards you appear to be setting the SAS, with it's 750 million to one billion dollar per mile pricetag, would be wasteful spending since it'd only alleviate crowding in the vicinity of Manhattan. I admit you've crafted a wonderful argument for those who oppose all transit construction, but when comparing one mode to another a non-sequitor such as this doesn't help us much.

Your insistence on a heavy-rail only system shows a shortsighted pennywise, poundfoolish approach to transit planning. For the 8 to 10 miles of the Second Avenue Subway you could potentially have 80 to 100 route miles of light rail track filling in the gaps the subway system was created with. By no means am I saying that the 2nd Ave Subway should not be built or that a light rail system be built in it's stead, I am merely advocating for a system in which the existing subway, with some extensions, coexists efficiently with a light rail network which fills in the subway system's gaps. The Feds are never going to supply NYC with enough money to build subways through all the neighborhoods that need them, so light rail can easily provide an intermediate capacity system for those areas that do not warrent subway construction.

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