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| Have You Been To Philadelphia? (967909) | |
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Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010 * Is West Philadelphia safe (especially Market Street between 40th and 69th Streets)?* Are Front Street and Kensington Avenue safe around MFL stations? * How do you access Millbourne (MFL) from Market Street? * Can you transfer between the MFL and Broad Street Subway and between the MFL and the Ridge Avenue Connector? * Which trolley lines are the best in terms of scenery? |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Aug 17 03:48:33 2010, in response to Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010. Is West Philadelphia safe (especially Market Street between 40th and 69th Streets)?If you have to ask the question, then the answer is no. I've biked under the el out through 63rd without feeling too unsafe. But if you do not know exactly where you're going, then please, just stay on the train or in the stations and avoid becoming a grizzly statistic. Are Front Street and Kensington Avenue safe around MFL stations? The same goes for the MFL around Front and Kensington. Some of those areas are extremely unsafe, others are just mildly unsafe. If you have to ask, then chances are you would not be able to recognize which is which until it was too late. And unlike the nice rectangular street grid in West Philly you'll run into the screwed up street grid Northern Liberties and Kensington wound up with. Again, you're at least relatively safe on the train, so stay up there and don't bother going to street level. How do you access Millbourne (MFL) from Market Street? You walk. Or you get on the MFL at 63rd and Market and ride one station. From West Chester Pike it looks like it's a hike of a block or two down Sellers Ave. Can you transfer between the MFL and Broad Street Subway Yes, just follow the appropriately colored sign. between the MFL and the Ridge Avenue Connector Not really. I'm pretty sure if you buy a transfer when boarding the MFL or BSS you might be able to do it. But there is no free transfer between the Broad Ridge Spur and Market Frankford Line at 8th and Market. Which trolley lines are the best in terms of scenery? I like the 34 along Baltimore Ave as it passes Clark Park. The 13, which runs one block to the south on Chester is also nice where it passes through the park. The southern end of the 13, going from Cobbs Creek past Yeadon into Darby is also kind of nice. The 15's route around the where it crosses the Schuylkill is nice, but passes too quickly before the route heads off into the northern edge of Fairmount or Mantua. And of course when SEPTA gets it running again (hopefully Aug 30th), the 101's route into Media is beautiful as it picks its way through the parks around Paper Mill Road. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 17 03:52:53 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 17 03:48:33 2010. Actually:In the daytime, 46th/Market has become much safer. That neighborhood is slowly becoming more gentrified as Penn (and Drexel) continue to expand. Going west of there, I would still be careful, especially west of 52nd. I still would not be crazy of 46/Market at night, but even then the area is considerably better than it once was. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by EastSideRider on Tue Aug 17 03:57:19 2010, in response to Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010. As a South Jersey resident, with friends and others I know in Philly, I can answer this!* Is West Philadelphia safe (especially Market Street between 40th and 69th Streets)? Yes, but sadly due to the state of Philly in some/most parts and the EL reconstruction project, Market Street is a bit rundown and abandoned under the El part, between 45 and 63 St. 52 Street is definitely alive though, as its West Philly's main street. 56 isn't bad either. * Are Front Street and Kensington Avenue safe around MFL stations? IMO, if it isn't around Erie/Torresdale, Allegheny, or Girard, it may be risky. North Philly is the dodgy part, especially at night and around Huntingdon and Somerset Stations.... * How do you access Millbourne (MFL) from Market Street? Its a little alleyway (not a dangerous one, as this stop is lightly used) from the north side of Market Street. Go in the direction of the El. * Can you transfer between the MFL and Broad Street Subway and between the MFL and the Ridge Avenue Connector? The MFL and Broad Street Line connect at City Hall (BSL)-15 Street (MFL) for free and are connected (just follow the crowd really). The MFL and Broad-Ridge Spur at 8 St DON'T have a free connection. When you exit out the turnstiles for the El or Ridge Spur at 8th, your out of the paid area. PATCO to NJ is at 8th also. FYI, you can walk underground (outside the paid area) through Gallery Mall from 8 St Station, west down Market (Passing 11 St, 13 St, and Market East Stations) to City Hall, and from City Hall you can go either south down Broad Street to Walnut-Locust Station on the BSL/PATCO or Northwest into the Suburban Station Plaza. Here's a good map: Underground Map * Which trolley lines are the best in terms of scenery? I'd ride the 15 (Girard Avenue Trolley, which is popular among railfans for its PCCs) before its rerouted on its western part along Delaware Avenue/I-95. Also, the Route 101 Trolley is scenic, wooded areas, waterfalls, bridges, the whole nine. Plus, Media is a nice place to check out :-) I'd recommend the 102 Trolley also, but its branch is under construction now (gonna open back up soon I heard though). The Norristown High Speed Line is good too, though not a trolley. You can get the 15 at Girard Av from all Broad Street trains (Local, Express, and Ridge), the MFL at Girard, and the Route 10 Subway-Surface trolley at Girard and Lancaster Avenues in West Philly. The Norristown HSL, and Routes 101/102 are at 69 St in Delaware County on the MFL (Millbourne and 69 are actually outside Philadelphia County). Another tip, before you leave, check the SEPTA website for service details and disruptions, as SEPTA isn't as reminding of service changes and maps as NYC! |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Aug 17 09:45:08 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 17 03:48:33 2010. "Is West Philadelphia safe"This question brought to mind this very famous TV show opener from a very famous 90's TV show!! :-D And you might find your answer starting at about 0:30 in the video, and all the way up to 1:00 in the video!! :-D |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Aug 17 16:46:12 2010, in response to Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010. When is comes to Philadelphia, watch your back if you're not in the Center City is pretty much the rule of thumb. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 17 17:07:52 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Aug 17 16:46:12 2010. Except for CC and Chestnut Hill, I've never ventured off the train within city limits. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 17 17:23:05 2010, in response to Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010. I have been to Philadelphia.I'm displeased about what was done to Reading Terminal and 24th Street Station. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 17 17:36:05 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 17 17:23:05 2010. The current setup does preclude diesels, which is not good. |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Aug 17 17:39:01 2010, in response to Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010. Me and NETO fanned Philly a few times in the Summer went to a grimey hood right off Broad Street for some cheese stakes. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Aug 17 18:41:29 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 17 03:52:53 2010. 46th & Market? It may be better I guess, but I thought the gentrification was more South towards Baltimore and Chester Aves (off the 34 and 13.) I'd still be somewhat wary with 46th and Market if I was an out-of-town traveler with limited street smarts.Also, if I was such a traveler, I wouldn't recommend traveling anywhere near 52nd and Market...period (unless you remain on the train, of course). |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 17 18:43:16 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 17 17:36:05 2010. The 24th Street station location is still available, but it's now two tracks and freight only. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Aug 17 18:50:08 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 17 03:48:33 2010. Will said it best. Honestly, with the El construction destroying many businesses on West Market Street, it's kind of desolate around there. So...yeah it may be interesting, but I wouldn't recommend hanging out there when night falls.In regards to the Broad Ridge Spur, you can easily transfer to it for free from the Broad Street Subway. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Aug 17 18:52:39 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Aug 17 16:46:12 2010. Well...that should be a general rule anywhere. Besides, South Philly (NOT Southwest) isn't bad, as well as Northern Liberties and University City. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 17 18:59:10 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 17 03:48:33 2010. if you do not know exactly where you're going, then please, just stay on the train or in the stations and avoid becoming a grizzly statisticThere are no grizzlies east of the Mississippi, and that's rare nowadays there. Rarely, one might find a black bear wandering into the city, if he doesn't get hit by traffic first. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 17 19:00:05 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Aug 17 18:50:08 2010. Honestly, with the El construction destroying many businesses on West Market Street, it's kind of desolate around thereDoes anyone besides me think that for the same amount of money spent on el reconstruction, they could have put the el underground . . . ? |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Aug 17 19:00:38 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 17 19:00:05 2010. Underground over an el? What kinda railfan are you, eh? |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Aug 17 19:21:47 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Aug 17 18:52:39 2010. South Philadelphia and Northern Liberties are not really places you'd want to wander around as a tourist. As for University City, I'm not sure if they still do, but muggers used to hang out there and prey on UPenn students unfamiliar with the area. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 19:29:52 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 17 19:00:05 2010. Why does the El go underground near the sidewalk between 45th and 44th Streets instead of in the middle of Market Street?I've heard the area around 52d and Market Streets is pretty bad. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 17 19:56:40 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 17 18:43:16 2010. That site looks occupied. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 17 20:13:02 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 17 19:00:05 2010. Or extended it to Bustleton. |
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Posted by blue8IRT on Tue Aug 17 20:18:59 2010, in response to Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010. This is sort of scary. It's like asking if it's safe to wlak through Center City Allentown, Pa. Try Gordon and Jordan Sts. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Tue Aug 17 20:57:17 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 19:29:52 2010. "Why does the El go underground near the sidewalk between 45th and 44th Streets instead of in the middle of Market Street?"The Market Street Elevated originally left the subway at about 23 Street and ran on structure through West Philadelphia. In the fall of 1955 a subway tunnel under the Schuylkill River was completed and brought the line back to the elevated west of 44 Street. To avoid disrupting service during construction, the connection was made from the north side of Market Street. |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Tue Aug 17 21:13:53 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Aug 17 18:52:39 2010. Northeast Philly is not too bad either. It reminds me of parts of eastern Queens. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Aug 17 21:43:43 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 17 20:13:02 2010. Only after we extend the Broad Street Subway past that intersection:
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 17 21:45:55 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Aug 17 19:00:38 2010. Underground is still railroad. And it's underground through Center City besides. Underground was the preferred mode for NYC; the el wasn't wanted originally. |
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Posted by RiverLINE3501 on Tue Aug 17 22:34:31 2010, in response to Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010. * Is West Philadelphia safe (especially Market Street between 40th and 69th Streets)?HELL NO! Even my black ass wouldn't be caught dead there, especiually at 52nd St! * Are Front Street and Kensington Avenue safe around MFL stations? Daytime, it's iffy. Nighttime, carry an AK47 for protection. There are a lot halfway houses and the prostitutes are out in force especially at night. * How do you access Millbourne (MFL) from Market Street? Walk up Millbourne Ave and you get directly to the SEPTA station. * Can you transfer between the MFL and Broad Street Subway and between the MFL and the Ridge Avenue Connector? At 15th St, there's a free transfer between the MFSE and the BSS. At 8th St, there's no transfer between the MFSE and the BS Ridge Spur, the only way is if you have a Trans/Trailpass, or the Convenience/Independence Pass. * Which trolley lines are the best in terms of scenery? When they come back on line on 8/30, the Media/Sharon Hill trolleys are your best bets. In the city, the 15 should be a best bet, but SEPTA has a horrendous tendecy to put buses on the line on a frequent basis thanks to the "Shop Queen" reputation of the PCC2's. The Subway-Surface lines [10,11,13,34,36], if you ride to the end of the lines [except the 34], it's OK but use common sense and don't look like a tourist. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Aug 17 22:39:39 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Tue Aug 17 21:13:53 2010. It reminded me more of Staten Island than Queens, unless you mean Rockaway Park. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Aug 17 22:46:43 2010, in response to Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010. Is West Philadelphia safe?Not according to Will Smith :) |
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Posted by WillD on Wed Aug 18 00:59:26 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Aug 17 18:52:39 2010. ...And Manayunk, and Wynnfield, and West Oak Lane, and Chestnut Hill, and Roxborough, and Overbrook Park, and Fairmount, and East Falls, and Fishtown, and Fox Chase, and the northern end of Pt Breeze, and Society Hill, and West Mt Airy.I feel as safe in any of those neighborhoods as I do on any street in Manhattan. Just because the foamers here happen to see Philadelphia's blighted sections during their shallow, mass transit oriented trips to the city does not mean that is what the city consists of. Chestnut Hill, taken independently of the city, is one of the wealthiest communities in all of Pennsylvania. People need to get out and see the rest of Philadelphia, not just the tiny bit that is served by the BSS, MFL, or Subway Surface. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Aug 18 01:24:15 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by WillD on Wed Aug 18 00:59:26 2010. Just because the foamers here happen to see Philadelphia's blighted sections during their shallow, mass transit oriented trips to the city does not mean that is what the city consists of.Real classy statement. I can totally understand why you expect people to take this post seriously. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Wed Aug 18 01:27:53 2010, in response to Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010. I was in Philly last Sunday for the baseball game. I took this picture from the Amtrak train. I know it's not my best but it gets the point across: The only issue with the 30 Street Station vicinity is that it is full of vagrants and homeless people right inside the subway entrance. The few times I've traveled to Philly, quite honest, I just do not feel very comfortable on the Market Frankford Line but I do feel a bit more comfortable on the Broad Street Line. I guess it's because of the baseball crowds? I do not know. Their subway stations and transfer points seem to be run down and cluttered...especially at City Hall. Not only that but the signs were a little confusing to understand. I too, have walked the streets of Philly from Genos Steaks to the Broad Street Subway. That area is ok but not the best to walk through. Now seeing the el structure from Amtrak, I don't think I'd want to even drive a car through there. No offense to people that live in Philly but it looks really bad there. I'd rather walk through Bed-Stuy in Brooklyn than walk through there. I have not been to all areas of Philly nor would I really want to. But I am sure there are areas that are much better than others. I think I'll go to Philly again someday. But I got to know exactly where I am going to before I make the trip down there. I'm not going to go somewhere where I think I will feel unwelcomed. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Aug 18 01:41:47 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by RiverLINE3501 on Tue Aug 17 22:34:31 2010. In the city, the 15 should be a best bet, but SEPTA has a horrendous tendecy to put buses on the line on a frequent basis thanks to the "Shop Queen" reputation of the PCC2's.Interesting that people keep on answering that question with the 15 when outside of the Philadelphia Zoo area the scenery along the route is nothing special. |
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Posted by EastSideRider on Wed Aug 18 01:55:34 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Aug 18 01:24:15 2010. But you get the gist of it. Nobody in Philly is gonna stick you up as soon as you leave the train station. Its not THAT bad. |
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Posted by EastSideRider on Wed Aug 18 01:57:25 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by WillD on Wed Aug 18 00:59:26 2010. *T*R*U*T*H*Philly gets its bad rap from media and some of the people. Outside the bad apples, its not THAT bad. Just keep your guard on a few spots and your straight. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Aug 18 02:17:06 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Aug 17 18:41:29 2010. Yes, 46th/Market has become FAR better in recent years. The Penn-Drexel expansion has already gone as far south as it could for the most part, and now going north and west are more and more the only options (in fact, many of Drexel's athletic fields are now at 43rd-44th and Market/Powelton Avenue).That neighborhood still has some ways to go, but it's a far cry from where it was even just in say 2005 as opposed to now. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Wed Aug 18 03:20:46 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Tue Aug 17 21:13:53 2010. Heh, I completely forgot to mention the great Northeast. I do agree that it does have quite the Queens feel to it, based on my limited knowledge of Queens. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Wed Aug 18 03:28:00 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by WillD on Wed Aug 18 00:59:26 2010. Yeah, I forgot to mention those places, although really with West Oak Lane and Overbrook Park? I guess they've become better, especially West Oak Lane.Honestly, wherever you go in any city (even in rural places) you really should always use common sense and street smarts when making your way around town. Crime happens everywhere, just more often in some places than others. Gosh there are so many different neighborhoods in this city. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Wed Aug 18 03:30:06 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Aug 18 01:41:47 2010. Indeed. Guess the PCC aspect of the PCC IIs provide enough scenery for the people. |
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Posted by Paul Casey on Wed Aug 18 03:38:30 2010, in response to Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010. Philadelphia is riddled with crime thanks to years of democrat policies. |
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Posted by Triangle Junction on Thu Aug 19 12:08:30 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Aug 17 19:21:47 2010. What's wrong with the area by the Italian market and Pats/Genos? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 19 12:23:52 2010, in response to Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Union Turnpike on Tue Aug 17 02:17:26 2010. Have You Been To Philadelphia? Yep. 30th St and Suburban Stations, Philadelphia (photos) Take Pride,
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Thu Aug 19 15:45:12 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Wed Aug 18 01:27:53 2010. The few times I've traveled to Philly, quite honest, I just do not feel very comfortable on the Market Frankford Line but I do feel a bit more comfortable on the Broad Street Line.I visited Philly last month and I had the opposite reaction - I felt much more comfortable on the MFL than I did on the BSS. |
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Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Aug 19 15:52:49 2010, in response to Re: Have You Been To Philadelphia?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 17 20:13:02 2010. Interesting. Would it not be cheaper to simply extend the M-F down Roosevelt Blvd, instead of the Broad St. line? I see advantages to that plan, but it's cost is highly prohibitive. |
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