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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 13:09:44 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Apr 12 12:58:22 2009. I doubt if there is anybody with the balls to say the nonsense they post to people's faces that they post here. Otherwise, there would be some REAL ass kicking.Online lions. Offline sheep. No offense to our Broadway Lion, of course. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Apr 12 13:11:13 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 13:06:28 2009. Adults?Here? You gotta be kidding! |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 13:11:38 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 13:08:11 2009. Your post makes absolutely no sense at all. You're going around in circles arguing...nothing. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 13:11:57 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Apr 12 13:11:13 2009. Gotta point there... |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED |
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Posted by BigBusDriver on Sun Apr 12 13:12:47 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 13:09:44 2009. Oh man, can't wait to hear the ROARING!!! |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 12 13:28:58 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 12:36:53 2009. Don't think that's parallel to Wading River. If MN were running Metropolitans on the Putnam Division, then that might be more of a parallel . . . |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Apr 12 13:46:02 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 12 11:12:13 2009. They can add a reversionary clause to the language granting the land to whatever entity administers the trail so if there is a crying need for it to return to rail it can be done without it being a taking. That said, it makes more sense to make a trail out of an unused ROW than to just let it sit with no benefit to anyone.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 13:46:14 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 12 13:28:58 2009. It wasn't meant to be a an analogy to restoring Wading River service, but rather that MNCR has been more effective at improving service to 'the far reaches' in a way that LIRR hasn't.If MN were running Metropolitans on the Putnam Division, then that might be more of a parallel . . . Perhaps. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 12 15:25:50 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 12:36:53 2009. with electrification to Southeast (ex-Brewster North)Southeast and Ronkonkoma are the two electrification projects undertaken by the MTA in the early 80s, and oddly, both are roughly the same distance away from Midtown. The difference is that Southeast is extremely exurban with low density homes, while Ronkonkoma is suburban in character still with continuous development stretching out further to Medford. For all intents and purposes, the LIRR would have to go out to Yaphank or Manorville or even as far as Riverhead to have a similar effect. Contrast that to LIRR service to a place like Mastic-Shirley (60+ miles from NYP), or even worse, to Yaphank (a little under 60 miles to NYP). I'm wondering if the Northern suburbs are exurban, but catering towards Manhattan bound commuters while LI's exurbs cater to those who are too poor for Long Island. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 12 15:29:08 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 13:08:11 2009. an argument could be made, depending on where people originate from, that extension would drastically reduce commuting time for a sizable chunk of the ridership.Given a potential schedule and current (and future) road designs, the question to ask is given the ridership and demographics and development, is it faster (and cheaper) for the locals and the MTA to just have everybody drive to Port Jeff (or Ronk or future Yaphank/Manorville station) or build the line eastward. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 15:49:19 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Fred G on Sun Apr 12 13:46:02 2009. You have an excellent idea there. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Apr 12 16:08:26 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Apr 11 12:23:33 2009. Why should you care either way living in Queens. Unless you would be using the line it really shouldn't matter to you. It's not like it was a Manhattan el where tearing it down diminished the flavor of the city. It was a line that most people didn't even know about and most people don't miss. As a railfan it should be more important in keeping what we have now.Today I was at a car show in a parking lot in Garden City. Behind the lot was the ROW of the old tracks that went from Mineola to Country Life Press. It was nice to look at but I know they'll never reactivate it. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Apr 12 16:10:46 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Fred G on Sun Apr 12 04:44:02 2009. Right. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 16:11:33 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Apr 12 16:08:26 2009. "It's not like it was a Manhattan el where tearing it down diminished the flavor of the city"Fortunately, there's still Peter Luger's in Brooklyn to add the flacot back. :0) Seriously, the loss of the Manhattan Els on the East Side was a serious matter. We're finally doing something about it. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 16:11:50 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 16:11:33 2009. flavor, not flacot. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 17:18:45 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 12:22:21 2009. A certain percentage of people who move out to Suffolk do so because they are intolerant of racial minoritiesm and have poor social skillsBut it is not for you to dictate what their opinions of others should be or how long it should take them to acquire your more "enlightened" ways. Just because you were better able, equipped, enlightened, or fortunate enough not to be burned by your adaptability doesn't mean others should be vilified for their cautiousness or their tolerance of intolerance. I would sooner go after those who ACT upon their dislike of others by committing physical harm to them and not merely wanting to retreat into a zone they consider "safe" without any threat. Sometimes, prejudice is a safety reaction and not an ignorant one. In Juneau, Alaska They don't have fifteen thousand people living cheek-to-jowl there to create discord, distrust, and prejudice. Maybe they are open to sociability because there is so little chance for it. Apples to Oranges when it comes to comparing Juneau to Suffolk. I predict the trail will develop very nicely, and we'll read more whining here on Subchat about how horrible it is, and that is OK I've changed my opinion on here many times. And to tell you the truth, if the residents along the trail think it is good, then who am I to say it isn't? I don't live there, and I won't live there with the trail, unless I consciously choose to. These people don't have a choice but to adapt. The goal posts changed far too radically after the ball was kicked. But I do hope you give me credit for resolving that it is a good thing if the people directly involved in it think it is good. I, personally, don't see the good in it, and that doesn't make me a racist. I won't allow that. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 17:20:26 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 12 11:18:40 2009. what r u talking bout not serious? |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 17:34:50 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 12:05:59 2009. They could come within inches of your property line, the same way I pass close to people's property line every time I walk down the street That's prepared for: Locked doors, better-secured design, and a social code that tells people not to traipse on other peoples' property on the way to or from somewhere although it does happen every now and then. Right, so the only people on the ROW now are vagrants, drug addicts and the mentally ill. Everyone else feels restricted Not everyone of course, but why should I have to suffer the presence or potential presence of even one more vagrant, drug addict, or social miscreant than once was? If you build it, they will come. I like how you paint everybody's thinking as absolute and then label them as mentally defective by the words you put into their mouth. Maybe, but the current configuration leaves no reason to attract the element that would warrant a call from 911 from the better-adjusted amongst the trail's users. And even if they WERE attracted, it's a jungle back there -- one they may not be willing to escape from as quickly as they entered because of the natural dangers and obstacles there. That's why the land should be left undisturbed . . . as a buffer for the residents around it. So now you imagine their building it in your backyard, not next to your backyard? That's called paranoia. Your lack of social skills is your own problem. Oh please. Semantic games no better than Weinberg. Of course I don't think it will be IN my backyard. NEXT to it is encroachment enough. And my social skills dictate peace, quiet, and solitude. That's why I [figuratively] moved out to the Island. That's why I "suffer" the long commute on the clean, quiet, and efficient LIRR instead of the piss-soaked, filthy, loud, and slow subway . . . why should all "changes" mean a dilution of the quality of life, and why should anybody have to put up with it? Better yet, why should holding yourself to conservative quality-of-life standards translate into poor social skills or racism? Only in the mind of those who want me "equal" to thee. Rest of Ron's passage . . . As I mentioned elsewhere, the issue as it stands does not affect me. It affects others who, presumably, could and do have similar opinions. If they can adapt, I'll resolve the trail is good. If they can't adapt, I'll resolve I was right and the trail is unneeded and unwanted and should not have happened. Who knows? If I lived in Juneau, AK, I would like a trail behind my house. Maybe even in Reno or KC. But in good ole NYC and its catchment area, I would like to maintain a bit more control over how I see the people I do. That's not a sickness; it's a lifestyle choice. A legitimate one. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 17:37:30 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 17:18:45 2009. "But it is not for you to dictate what their opinions of others should be or how long it should take them to acquire your more "enlightened" ways"I am not dicatating anything - I'm merely pointing out that their attempts to hide are ultimately futile and that the population will change regardless of their abilities to deal with it. Developments like the trail will then happen whether they like it or not. "Just because you were better able, equipped, enlightened, or fortunate enough not to be burned by your adaptability doesn't mean others should be vilified for their cautiousness or their tolerance of intolerance." Actually, yes they should, especially when that intolerance leads to a lower quality of life for their neighbors because things like empty weedy lots and abandoned trackways can't be cleaned up. "They don't have fifteen thousand people living cheek-to-jowl there to create discord, distrust, and prejudice" Actually, they do. And they do live cheek by Jowl, because the front garden I step next to on the stairway is right next to (actually, and above or below the level of) their neighbor's. The houses are beautiful, but they are set close to each other because putting them into the mountain was hard to begin with. You could learn a lesson from that were you to open your mind a little. "But I do hope you give me credit for resolving that it is a good thing if the people directly involved in it think it is good." The people involved in it are not all of one mind and do not all think alike. But I predict that it will work out OK in the end. It looks like, from the article, that it's going well. "I, personally, don't see the good in it, and that doesn't make me a racist." Yes, it does. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 17:41:02 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 17:34:50 2009. "Maybe, but the current configuration leaves no reason to attract the element that would warrant a call from 911 from the better-adjusted amongst the trail's users"Actually, the current configuration is exactly the right kind to attract vagrants - they know they can shoot up or do whatever the hell they want becsause nobody else wants to go there. It also encourafges people to dump there. "And my social skills dictate peace, quiet, and solitude. That's why I [figuratively] moved out to the Island. That's why I "suffer" the long commute on the clean, quiet, and efficient LIRR instead of the piss-soaked, filthy, loud, and slow subway" And that's what you got. The trail wouldn't change that. Put trains back on it, though, and you'd have a different story... |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 12 17:41:51 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 17:20:26 2009. u know what I mean bout not serious |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 17:42:48 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Ken S. on Sun Apr 12 12:10:43 2009. Jesus Christ . . . why do I bother to post here? If this gets sent to the reef because of your petty, empty, visceral hatred of Ron . . . oh nevermind. I said I would leave and I never have. But I see too much idiocy on here to let stand -- just like yours -- to keep me from wanting to reply and set the record straight. You're not a man, Ken. You're a mouse. An ankle-biting, malcontent, mouse. There was nothing wrong with his reply that a little counter-reply couldn't address. If you as the reader couldn't see between our arguments and stand with the one you think is proper without resorting to name calling (and maybe being a good community citizen and synthesizing both arguments into an acceptable amalgamation), then you ARE a simplistic, knee-jerk foamer like Ron says. And for ME to say that despite my intermittent lack of esteem for Ron's posting practices says something. Grow up. Formulate opinions, and THEN duke it out with the heavyweights on here. Stop being a jealous, helpless, pish-in-your-pants child. I'm sick of wasting posts to The Reef because some cacazote can't keep it within him. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 17:47:15 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 17:42:48 2009. I sympathize with you.I dish it out, but I take it too. Wherever you are, "Silver Fox," I hope your Easter is peaceful and that you ate too much good food. I appreciate your trying out my ketchup and Coke BBQ sauce idea (well, it wasn't my original idea) and adapting it. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Sun Apr 12 17:48:00 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 12 17:41:51 2009. f |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 17:52:09 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 17:47:15 2009. Boy, I can't wait for BBQ season to start. Carbs? What are those? LOL And as for Easter . . . I was never Christian. I was always "Hanukkian" -- a word I created for those who didn't understand that around Christmastime there would be people in this world who didn't celebrate Christmas. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 18:11:55 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 17:52:09 2009. My apologies! Happy Passover then - or whatever you like to celebrate.Any excuse for a party... |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by aem7ac on Sun Apr 12 18:49:14 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 15:49:19 2009. Most trails are done that way (with a "reverse" clause), but no trail has ever been reversed to a rail corridor even when the transportation benefits are overwhelming.The fucking yuppies' park lobby is much stronger than the public transit lobby. Yuppies should go fuck themselves. OK, I was having a bad day yesterday. But yuppies should still fuck orff. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by aem7ac on Sun Apr 12 18:51:58 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 13:08:11 2009. The demand/supply argument as it applies to commuter rail is one of the most stupid arguments. The answers are all well known and well researched. Everyone who uses it misrepresents the arguments for their own benefit and agenda. Wendell Cox makes a living doing it. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Apr 12 19:22:25 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by aem7ac on Sun Apr 12 18:51:58 2009. POTD! |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by d_mind on Sun Apr 12 19:55:42 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Fred G on Sun Apr 12 04:44:02 2009. That's what I meant. It's good that its becoming a sanctioned trail rather than letting it sit there. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Apr 12 19:56:18 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by aem7ac on Sun Apr 12 18:49:14 2009. Then they need to bring back the cat o' nine tails and start swingin.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Apr 12 20:02:18 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 12 11:14:07 2009. You see that very situation on the Columbia Trail in High Bridge, NJ.And Motor Parkway in Queens. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 21:16:51 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 12 11:23:27 2009. I've had a slug of Dial, Ivory, and a kitchen dishwashing liquid called "Grease Relief" in a red spray container in my day. Yes. It was definitely done. Even had friends to whom this happened. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED |
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Posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 21:23:12 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Apr 12 12:35:43 2009. "Who's got the biggest balls" No matter how big your balls are, there's always about a million people out there whose balls are bigger than yours. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED |
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Posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 21:29:03 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Apr 12 12:58:22 2009. What's funny is that Ron started in with the racism accusations against me, and that I didn't seem to mind. I analyzed the source of the comments and weighed them against the overall importance of our conversation and my own sureness of my opinions and just let what he said stand for the rest of the board to see. Let them make up their minds. There's no use in converting the unwilling, and worse, there is no use in reflexively getting angry if part of the crowd outside your audience heckles you. It means you're doing your job. Upright. Without the need to resort to biting ankles. I wish some of our smaller-minded children (and I say that to those whose need for instant gratification and lack of regard for consequences for what you say or wish hasn't matured beyond the childhood level) would pick up on this. After all, isn't childhood the period in life where we retain the most of what we learn? |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 21:34:41 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 12 11:14:07 2009. In Rocky Point, the homes are LITERALLY less than 50 feet from where the center of the tracks used to be. It's VERY tight as it went through Prince and King Rds in Rocky Point.Here are some photos I took last year along the ROW. Here's how close the ROW is actually to the homes through Rocky Point. You can also see this if you look at aerial images: The power lines are litterly in people's back yards.  Here's the ROW at the site of the old Miller Place Station, where it's much wider:  Here's the old Rocky Point station house. it is currently being used by a lumber yard. The right part of the building used to be one of the open canopies, and was enclosed. You can also see where the main part of the building was:  And finally, the old Railroad Bridge mentioned in the article, in Shoreham: 
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED |
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Posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 21:38:22 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 13:09:44 2009. Do you really think that any right-headed individual will screw up their real-life lives with an arrest record trying to set things straight with someone from on here? Actually, the charges will be for "cruelty to animals" but will garner the same, or similar, sentences, since a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 21:56:47 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 12:22:21 2009. A certain percentage of people who move out to Suffolk do so because they are intolerant of racial minoritiesm and have poor social skills.You OBVIOUSLY have no idea how diverse Suffolk County is. What they find out over time, though, is that they can't hide forever from people who don't look or act like them or go to the same church or shul that they go to, and then they complain about the "decline" of the neighborhood. Where do you get these delusions about Suffolk County from? How many years did you live there? Truthfully, I live around more people from different backgrounds in Suffolk County in the various communities near by, as well as the one I live in, than I did when I lived in Queens! Talk about some delusional, false stereotype you have about Long Island! Things like public trails terrify them because they've never been taught how to get along with anybody. What the hell are you talking about, and where do you get these delusions from? It's no different than the Nimbyism that took place along any project, or even the High Line in the middle of Manhattan. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:00:56 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 17:37:30 2009. Actually, yes they should, especially when that intolerance leads to a lower quality of life for their neighbors because things like empty weedy lots and abandoned trackways can't be cleaned up. Weedy lots? And what needs to be cleaned up? There is no "overgrowth", it's a maintained power line ROW. BTW, do you have ANY idea what the demographics of Port Jeff Station, Rocky Point, Sound Beach, and some of the other areas you are talking out of your ass about are? |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:06:54 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 12 11:08:45 2009. Actually it would take traffic off of over burdened RT 347 and Route 25 and 25A, also overburdened. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:12:44 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 12:46:40 2009. The frequency of service and demand at Port Jeff does not make a good case for service extension further east. Of course I won't say that in 20 years there won't be a different situation...That wasn't always the case. That was only the case after 1987 when the electrification to Ronkonkoma canibilized the Port Jeff line, and made the madhouse and mayhem which is now known as Ronkonkoma. Ronokonkoma's ridership is only as high as it is because it's artificially made that way. While I am sure the LIRR knew that canibilization of the Port Jeff and Montauk branches would occur once electrification reached Ronkonkoma, I am sure even they weren't prepared to the extent of it, and the mayhem that would follow. Until the early 90's, the Port Jeff line was one probably the LIRR's "premier" commuter line. Hard to believe today. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 12 22:21:56 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 13:06:28 2009. adults don't resort to violenceThen you'll fall victim to children. Isn't that emasculating? |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:22:40 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 13:08:11 2009. You are correct.First off, ridership on the Port Jeff line was actually swallowed up by Ronkonkoma in the late 80's and early 90's, once that line was electrified. As for the Wading River segment, Rocky Point and Sound Beach were probabably already developing in the 1940's, but back then, that was a summer community. The houses are so close to the ROW, and so close together there in Rocky Point and Sound Beach, because they WANTED to be near the LIRR back then, as it was a walkable, summer community, and most of the homes were built as summer bungalows. Rocky Point and Sound Beach were developing before the line was abandoned. That being said, Miller Place, Shoreham, and Wading River were still farming communites back then, and Wading River still is basically. But anyone that sees the traffic on RT 25, and Route 25A, as well as Route 347 will know that there is plenty of population there that would use the Railroad today. The problem though is to get them OUT of their cars, and prevent them from DRIVING TO RONKONKOMA, which is what many/most LIRR commuters are doing now. Not only are they not driving to Port Jefferson, they are driving all the way to Ronkonkoma. My own comment that LIRR's failure to electrify to Port Jefferson speaks volumes about its capacity (or lack thereof) to re-extend service to Wading River was not meant to imply that the non-electrified Port Jefferson Branch lacks for ridership, especially as compared to other non-electrified territory. Indeed, LIRR found that electrification to Port Jefferson was warranted, but not feasible because they were unable to site a yard; they did not explain why the present yard facilities east of Port Jefferson station are inadequate (even if improved). You are absolutely correct. The Port Jeff line WAS the LIRR's premier Commtuer line until Ronkonkoma was electrified. That ridership DID NOT fade away, it just was shifted away from the Port Jeff line, and to the Ronkonkoma line artificially, causing the Mayhem there that even the LIRR didn't expect to happen to the extent that it did. The Wading River Branch would do quite well in ridership, the problem being though that unless it was electrified all the way for it's length, it would fail, as unless the Port Jeff line was abandoned, there is no way of stealing the lost riders back from the Ronkonkoma Branch. And while extending electrification to Yaphank is also a great idea, and in the LIRR's capital plans, all that will do is shift a lot of the eastern originated onslaught from Ronkonkoma to Yaphank. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 12 22:23:46 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 12 15:25:50 2009. Southeast and Ronkonkoma are the two electrification projects undertaken by the MTA in the early 80sAnd what has followed . . . ? |
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TYPO Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:25:24 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:22:40 2009. The Wading River Branch would do quite well in ridership, the problem being though that unless it was electrified all the way for it's length, it would fail, as unless the Port Jeff line was abandoned, there is no way of stealing the lost riders back from the Ronkonkoma Branch.Sorry, that was supposed to say "Unless the Port Jeff line was ELECTRIFIED, there is no way of stealing back the lost riders from Ronkonkoma.... Sorry for the confusion! |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:29:34 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 13:46:14 2009. Also, don't forget, that the line between Dover Plains and Wassaic was NOT ABANDONED with the rest of the Harlem line between Wassaic and Chatham. The line north of Dover Plains, while didn't have passenger service, was served by freight for some years after passenger service was trunkated at Dover Plains. The rails were still even in place north of Dover Plains. The line was NOT Abandoned. What Metro North did was not resurect an abandoned rail line, instead, what it did was take a line that was "put into disuse" and bring back passenger service. The case of the east of Port Jeff is not really the same thing, as that line WAS abandoned. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 22:35:29 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by aem7ac on Sun Apr 12 18:49:14 2009. OK. We'll start with these two. The girl, conveniently, isn't wearing much:
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:36:23 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 12 22:23:46 2009. And what has followed . . . ?Suburbanization along the Ronkonkoma branch after electrification did not increase with that electrification, it was ALREADY suburbanized when that electrification came. In fact, it was suburbanized by the 60's and 70's at LEAST to Medford. Most of Medford was developed in the 1960's and 70's. What the electrification DID DO however was canibilize the Port Jeff and Montauk branches' riderships, especially that of Port Jeff. Ronkonkoma is only mayhem because of all the people coming there ARTIFICIALLY. Ronkonkoma isn't all that suburban, in fact, not to what you would think when you see the parking lot there. The VAST majority of the people using the Ronkonkoma station, probably close to 90% are from OTHER communities north, south, and mostly east of Ronkonkoma. In fact, the electrification has done VERY LITTLE to change what Ronkonkoma the community looked like before and after the electrification, all it changed was the station areas themselves, and that's about it. ALL of the communities along the electrified Ronkonkoma Branch have changed very little since the electrification, all of them were developed in the 50's, 60's, and 70's, and were basically complete by the 70's. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by d_mind on Sun Apr 12 22:37:31 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by aem7ac on Sun Apr 12 18:49:14 2009. I agree, yuppies should go fuck themselves. |
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Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 22:37:44 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:00:56 2009. "BTW, do you have ANY idea what the demographics of Port Jeff Station, Rocky Point, Sound Beach, and some of the other areas you are talking out of your ass about are? "Yes, and I know them a lot better than you do. So stop farting and start reading. |
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