|
|
| Re: IND Second system (1591558) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 3 of 3 |
||
|
| (1591960) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 11:45:39 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 7 11:10:22 2021. That's not what the would do. They would just run more locals than off-peak to maintain some more frequencies at each station. |
|
|
| (1591968) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 7 12:41:10 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 11:45:39 2021. Why do you say that the pre-pandemic logic for serving increasingly heavy mid-day traffic would no longer apply? |
|
|
| (1591970) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 12:50:23 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 7 12:41:10 2021. Off peak traffic is now about 80% of normal, tends to be a more like 90% on weekends. You don't get more rush-hour style express service with that. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1591972) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 7 12:54:22 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by ntrainride on Tue Dec 7 01:14:24 2021. Well, I havbe fiber optic servicce as far as the modem in my house. An outfit based in Santa Rosa, and a reseller based in Berkeley installed fiber all over Berkeley and North Oakland a couple years back. As to what machines my friend has, don't know. Merely aware that he WFH and is apparently productive enough that the employer is happy. As to relevancy of WFH, a couple decades back when ordering Grateful Dead merch, I discovered that the order taker was a farm housewife in Iowa with a computer and the necessary telcom hookups to do the work. No need to even be in the same state as the fulfillment people or the Dead's business office in Marin County CA.I remain very pleased that it is a short walk to BART (need to bludgeon them into 24/7 service). |
|
|
| (1591984) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Dec 7 14:54:52 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Dec 4 11:14:05 2021. I work a hybrid schedule - 3 days/week in the office, 2 at home. |
|
|
| (1591994) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Tue Dec 7 15:31:21 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by ntrainride on Sun Dec 5 21:43:16 2021. Lol!I hear that. |
|
|
| (1591997) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Tue Dec 7 15:46:42 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 3 09:47:46 2021. Brooklyn either.Brooklyn NEEDS the new lines,especially a new north south route. There are ROWS available to make that happen, and owned by the very agency(MTA) in charge of our rail system. We need new modes 9f transport, and reinventing the MTA to accommodate it Changing ridership is the way to do it. |
|
|
| (1592041) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by WayneJay on Wed Dec 8 00:49:46 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by ntrainride on Sun Dec 5 18:58:47 2021. I don't know the numbers, but I doubt that WFH scenario (especially nowadays) are so rare. I'd agree that they're many jobs that must be performed at the worksite, but plenty of others that can be done remotely. That boss you speak of who likes to see employees in the workplace may have too much time on their hands. A good boss wants a balanced situation where employees are most productive, and sometimes that may include working offsite. |
|
|
| (1592048) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Wed Dec 8 07:56:07 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by WayneJay on Wed Dec 8 00:49:46 2021. listen, i do understand your point. and i do understand that there are certain jobs that can be done from home. all i'm saying is, not many.i'm also saying, there never has been and there never will be a viable successful society in which most of the people don't go to work. |
|
|
| (1592089) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Wed Dec 8 16:35:33 2021, in response to IND Second system, posted by jailhousedoc on Thu Dec 2 20:13:48 2021. With all the discussions on this forum about the IND “Second System,” has anybody ever considered what might have happened if the stock market crash of 1929 halted the construction of most if not all of the IND “First System?” While later parts of the IND were funded with Federal funds, the initial IND was not, and it could have been possible that either the original 8th Ave subway construction might have been halted or else if completed might have been the only portion of the IND constructed till after WWII. |
|
|
| (1592091) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Dec 8 16:52:08 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by randyo on Wed Dec 8 16:35:33 2021. I guess that we are lucky to have what we have today. In 1932, the contract for the IND Fulton tunnel segment between Lewis Ave and Rockaway Ave was held up for a year, for lack of money. The original opening for the line to Rockaway Ave had been late 1934 or early 1935. The next IND project, the 6th Ave tunnels, might not have been started in 1936, as well. Perhaps the 6th Ave el, second in ridership only to the 3rd Ave el, might have stayed up longer. |
|
|
| (1592535) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Tue Dec 14 09:17:29 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Dec 6 21:29:45 2021. Makes you wish NYC had a comprehensive mass transit system! Like a subway! :-) |
|
|
| (1592538) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 14 10:19:03 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by 3-9 on Tue Dec 14 09:17:29 2021. Except that it doesn’t. It’s impossible to commute by subway from parts of the five boroughs, not to mention the lack of “circular” transit. |
|
|
| (1592607) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Think twice on Tue Dec 14 20:23:33 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Dec 8 16:52:08 2021. Agreed. We did luck-in to having the system we have now. Even our unique four-track local/express layout came about because the old Board of Rapid Transit had the wisdom to hire William Barclay Parsons as it's chief engineer. Anyone else would've probably given us the standard two-track Metro layout, and that would've been the precedent in NYC. |
|
|
| (1592608) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Think twice on Tue Dec 14 20:23:54 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Dec 8 16:52:08 2021. Agreed. We did luck-in to having the system we have now. Even our unique four-track local/express layout came about because the old Board of Rapid Transit had the wisdom to hire William Barclay Parsons as it's chief engineer. Anyone else would've probably given us the standard two-track Metro layout, and that would've been the precedent in NYC. |
|
|
| (1592610) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Tue Dec 14 21:05:03 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Think twice on Tue Dec 14 20:23:33 2021. parsons brinkerhoff is still about the best engineering company on the planet. |
|
|
| (1592621) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Dec 15 00:43:46 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by ntrainride on Tue Dec 14 21:05:03 2021. i DISSENT. tHEY LEAD THE CONSORTIUM MANAGING THE CONSTRUCTION OF bart. sTARTING WITH THE NONSTANDAED TRACK GUAGE, CONTINUING WITH THE TRIANGLE FRONT CARS, A TOTALLY CRAPPY COMPUTER CONTROL SYSTEM, AND INSUFFICIENT CROSSOVERS, NO 4 TRACK SEGMENTS OTHER THAN AT ONE STATION. nEED i CONTINUE? |
|
|
| (1592622) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Wed Dec 15 01:09:18 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Dec 15 00:43:46 2021. they seem to be associated with many many projects. as far as the bart specific issues you'd know better than i would. although i'll comment on the four track issue.i doubt there are many cities on earth that have grown in a way to not only suggests four track local express subway lines but demand them! manhattan island has no equal to any other city. the linear street grid pattern, the long avenues, the walkable design, the continuous lines of high density development... no place like it. do you believe san francisco could legitimately support similar four track subway lines? is it that thickly developed? |
|
|
| (1592634) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Dec 15 08:45:51 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by ntrainride on Wed Dec 15 01:09:18 2021. Your point is taken re: San Francisco, but ironically, BART (albeit in Oakland rather than SF), has a brief 4-track segment in the middle of a highway at the MacArthur station. I think this is more for ease of switching (just north of that station is the junction for the Richmond and Pittsburg/Antioch branches. South of MacArthur, the 4 tracks are narrowed to three and go into a subway under (I think) Broadway in downtown Oakland. It is a 2-level subway, the top level has 2 tracks, one northbound, one southbound. The lower level has one track which is bi-directional, depending on the time of day (probably southbound AM rush, northbound PM rush). This is again to aid switching, as south of the 12th St-Oakland City Center station there is a junction for the line to San Francisco and points south, and the line to Fremont and North San Jose.Sorry for the detail, BART is my favorite heavy rail system. Been almost 25 years since I've ridden 😟 |
|
|
| (1592636) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Wed Dec 15 09:47:45 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Dec 15 08:45:51 2021. no, the details are appreciated. |
|
|
| (1592640) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Dec 15 10:56:40 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 4 11:25:24 2021. |
|
|
| (1592641) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Dec 15 10:58:41 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 4 17:10:05 2021. The Garden or Barclays Center?(You mentioned Islanders) UBS Arena is supposedly a nice area (haven't been there....yet, but if I could compare it to the Coliseum, I went to see Billy Joel @ the Coliseum and I didn't like it as much as MSG) |
|
|
| (1592643) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by murray1575 on Wed Dec 15 11:45:35 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Dec 8 16:52:08 2021. The incremental construction of the IND was due to the city's debt limit being reached on a number of occasions. The 6th Avenue line was a very expensive piece of construction due to the need to underpin the old elevated line and go over and under several other existing subway and railroad lines and one of the city's water tunnels. That's why it was the last piece of the original IND system to be completed in 1940. |
|
|
| (1592646) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by murray1575 on Wed Dec 15 11:56:41 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 4 17:10:05 2021. The Islanders won more playoff games there than in any other arena except of course the Nassau Coliseum! |
|
|
| (1592658) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by sloth on Wed Dec 15 14:02:19 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Dec 4 11:45:47 2021. Gotta say, my car is depreciating so I better use it, is not a thought I've ever had.How am I gonna park this thing when I get there? I would guess that informs a lot of decisions. |
|
|
| (1592669) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Dec 15 15:36:11 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by murray1575 on Wed Dec 15 11:45:35 2021. After buying out the Manhattan Elevated Ry, the IRT, and the BMT, the City ran out of money. Then came the costs of demolition. Properties along the former routes had their property tax rates increased. Just take a look at the staggered demolition dates for the older els, too. To appease some critics of Unification, La Guardia kept the fare at an artificial five cents. I could go on, but you hopefully get my point! |
|
|
| (1592671) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Dec 15 16:08:47 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by ntrainride on Wed Dec 15 09:47:45 2021. some corrections. When first opened, the bi-level tunnel in downtown Oakland had oly two tracks on the eastern side of the structure. Later the third track was laid in the upper level west side . It was that track which was operated bi-directionally in rush for several years. That operation has ceased many years ago.As to San Francisco, the upper level tunnel where SF Muni Metro LRVs operate was originally supposed to be a second BART route within SF and potentially beyond. At the Civic Center station, the west stairway was built to facilitate transfer between the two routes--now blocked by steel bars. One can also notice that Muni tracks are offset toward the extra long platforms as the tunnel was built for BARTcars in 10 car trains. As to other US cities w/multiple track ROW, the CTA north of the up ramp from the State Street Subway all the way to Howard Street, is four tracks. South of the subway ramp, that route was 4 to just north of Chicago Ave to allow greater throughput. Philadelphia's Broad Street line was build to be 4 tracks north of Spring Garden. See nycsubway.org for the history. One can consider the Metra Electric District, former Illinois Central Electric, was built w/ 4 tracks from Van Buren to 115th/Kensington, and 6 between 11th/Roosevelt Road to 53rd/Hyde Park, to allow hyper expresses (called 'Specials') on 4 of the 6 tracks. While nominally a mainline RR the Electric, as with most rapid transit, featured sliding doors controllable from any vestibule, (think IND triggers but inside) high level platforms, semi-barrier fare collection, In theory, BART was built as an "express only" route in the East Bay, but a classic subway within SF. FWIW, there has been recurrent talk of "infill stations" which staff has stonewalled by claiming immense costs. IMHO, for many years BART staff has denied it is a subway, preferring a comparison to the LIRR (from an interview decades ago of their PR guy, and repeated in his memoirts). More recently, some of the directors (entirely elected) speak of BART as a subway. |
|
|
| (1592680) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Wed Dec 15 18:13:23 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Dec 15 16:08:47 2021. that metra electric line has always interested me. an interesting mix of commuter rail and city transit. |
|
|
| (1592684) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Think twice on Wed Dec 15 18:20:50 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by murray1575 on Wed Dec 15 11:45:35 2021. The 6th Avenue line was a very expensive piece of construction due to the need to underpin the old elevated line and go over and under several other existing subway and railroad lines and one of the city's water tunnels.I wonder if it would've been less expensive for the IND to have built a subway down 5th Avenue or Madison Avenue instead. |
|
|
| (1592689) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Dec 15 18:39:59 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Think twice on Wed Dec 15 18:20:50 2021. "I wonder if it would've been less expensive for the IND to have built a subway down 5th Avenue or Madison Avenue instead."The people living along 5th & Madison Aves would have never allowed it. That would have been the ultimate pushback by NIMBYism. |
|
|
| (1592691) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 15 18:56:40 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Dec 15 18:39:59 2021. Fifth was the only avenue that never had a street railway or any railway. |
|
|
| (1592694) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Dec 15 19:01:23 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by murray1575 on Wed Dec 15 11:56:41 2021. Fine. My point was about the drunken hockey fans riding trains & not about the records & venues of individual teams. |
|
|
| (1592700) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by zac on Wed Dec 15 19:43:35 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Dec 15 16:08:47 2021. I've always thought of BART as the RER, separate from le metro and serving CDG, the worlds worst airport. |
|
|
| (1592703) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Dec 15 20:39:55 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by ntrainride on Wed Dec 15 18:13:23 2021. Mainline RR EMU's in 71sr St median, then running at 65 mph on the embankment whisking suits to office jobs in the Loop.When I moved east to Philly along the RDG Chestnut Hill brtanch I was floored by how small the ridership was. |
|
|
| (1592704) | |
Re: IND Second system |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Dec 15 20:56:06 2021, in response to Re: IND Second system, posted by zac on Wed Dec 15 19:43:35 2021. Nah, its the subway. They s*** canned the carpeting and decreased seating... |
|
|
|
Page 3 of 3 |
||
