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(1531919)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Dj Hammers on Fri Dec 6 14:57:53 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Train Dude on Fri Dec 6 11:36:36 2019.

The optical sensors (OSMES) used both on Canarsie and for QBL CBTC have been replaced by a more reliable system called DIGIMOVE that is much less labor-intensive.

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(1531920)

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VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by Dj Hammers on Fri Dec 6 14:59:04 2019, in response to VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Dj Hammers on Wed Dec 4 23:02:49 2019.

This morning saw the first R46 W consist. There are two consists in operation today cycling between the N and W lines. Enjoy!


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(1531922)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by Chicago44 on Fri Dec 6 15:42:55 2019, in response to VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line, posted by Dj Hammers on Fri Dec 6 14:59:04 2019.

I am really waiting for the R46 to arrive on the B train.

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(1531928)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Edwards! on Fri Dec 6 16:16:46 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Dec 6 12:59:29 2019.

No need for a new Tunnel.
The 63rd St Tube has plenty of capacity to handle Flushing line trains.
The problem is constructing the Trackage and portal connecting to the elevated line.
One way of doing this is use the Bypass row and bellmouths to tunnel under the Sunnyside yard.
The remaining Flushing Line route can retained as a shuttle service or used as the revived Montauk service to Jamaica.




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(1531940)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 6 17:35:25 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line, posted by Chicago44 on Fri Dec 6 15:42:55 2019.

They may not since the B is currently R-68/68A so no need for a swap.

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(1531941)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Dec 6 17:35:31 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Edwards! on Fri Dec 6 16:16:46 2019.

My thought I posted here years ago was to re-configure QBP to give back the Astoria line to the IRT & run from Hudson Yds to Ditmars. THe middle track above 31st St. could be used for IRT equiptment layups on the off hours & weekends. Then have B division size Flushing trains go down the 60th St tunnel via BMT lines. However I was reminded that the 60th St Tunnel & its Broadway line is pretty much maxed out as in TPH & couldn't handle all those Flushing Trains. This might have been one way to keep the Steinway tunnel, as long as its borrowed time dosen't run out that is.

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(1531944)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by VictorM on Fri Dec 6 18:44:56 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 6 17:35:25 2019.

But if the B ran R46s instead of R68/68As it would be a lot easier to change the northern destination signs (145 St or Bedford Park Blvd) during the day. The B's R68/68As could then be assigned to the Q which always has the same terminals.

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(1531948)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Dec 6 19:30:06 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Train Dude on Fri Dec 6 09:41:41 2019.

thank you for the informative writings. Now if only some of the MTA managers would get these ideas into their minds....


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(1531949)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Dec 6 19:35:05 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Dec 6 17:35:31 2019.

if the Steinway tunnel is in need of repairs, how bad is it and why is there a delay ? When disaster strikes, it cannot be undone.....

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(1531955)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by italianguyinsi on Fri Dec 6 20:15:17 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 6 17:35:25 2019.

If the Nancy is starting to eat away at the Bravo's R68/68As, then the Bravo would have to get some 46s to replace. Or, the Nancy could stay with the 46s; however recent sightings are showing Nancy using Bravo 68 sets.

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(1531956)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Dec 6 20:25:18 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Dj Hammers on Fri Dec 6 14:56:01 2019.

Thanks.

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(1531957)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Dec 6 20:28:47 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Edwards! on Fri Dec 6 16:16:46 2019.

It doesn’t, actually. You’d be limited to only 15 tph on Flushing because of the F train, unless you kick the F out of the 63rd Street Tunnel. But then where would you run the F?

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(1531958)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Dec 6 20:33:09 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Dec 6 12:59:29 2019.

This would also include the underground stations before and after the Steinway Tubes, I presume. If I’m not mistaken, those stations are built to the smaller IRT clearances. Main St-Flushing, I don’t think would be a problem. I believe that station and its short subway tunnel are built to B-Division clearances.

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(1531959)

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Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit

Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 6 21:00:42 2019, in response to Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Dec 6 14:28:09 2019.

I remember 6 car R46's on the N.

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(1531965)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by K. Trout on Fri Dec 6 22:25:34 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 6 17:35:25 2019.

Don't the R46s have a better MBDF than the R68/A? If so, they should be assigned to a full-time line for better reliability. The N makes most sense since the electronic signs are useful for the overnight runs via tunnel.

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(1531968)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Dec 6 22:30:39 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by VictorM on Thu Dec 5 22:27:59 2019.

Fred REALLY isn't going to like that!

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(1531969)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by R33/r36 mainline on Fri Dec 6 22:32:09 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line, posted by K. Trout on Fri Dec 6 22:25:34 2019.

The 46s and 68s MDBF is about the same. 68A is a little higher than both.

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(1531971)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Railman718 on Fri Dec 6 23:38:50 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by cortelyounext on Fri Dec 6 11:28:49 2019.

Where are you training

In the Land of the robo trains AKA the L Line..

and where do you intend to utilize CBTC?

The Korridor of Khaos AKA Queens Blvd.. When they let me of coruse...

Are you still out there in Nevada?

I got paroled back in New York...



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(1531972)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by K. Trout on Sat Dec 7 00:06:32 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line, posted by R33/r36 mainline on Fri Dec 6 22:32:09 2019.

OK, thanks.

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(1531973)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 7 00:07:05 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by cortelyounext on Fri Dec 6 11:28:49 2019.

CBTC=

Catch Bus to Canarsie.

Catch Bus to Corona.

Catch Bus to Continental coming soon.

Next?

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(1531974)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 7 00:13:41 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 7 00:07:05 2019.

Catch Bus to Church?

Catch Bus to Chambers?

Catch Bus to Concourse?



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(1531975)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 7 01:07:00 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Dec 6 20:28:47 2019.

The F would become the new Flushing line service.
The V(the Original 6th avenue Express/Brooklyn Express concept) would replace it on Queens Blvd as the express to 179th St.

M remains the same.
N moves to the Tunnel as the local
R moves to the bridge,as the exp. Continues to Brooklyn as the Brighton Exp',while B assumes local service to 9th Ave,peak periods to Bay Pkwy.
J becomes 4th Ave local to 95th St.

So..
F to Main St.
R to Brighten Beach Broadway Exp.
B replaced with enhanced C and D service.
J becomes 4th Ave local replacing the R.
N becomes Broadway local.
Q unchanged.
V replacing F in Queens.

6 Ave
D/F/M and V
F and M locals
D and V Exp.

Broadway
N/Q/R/W
Q and R Broadway Exp.
N and W Broadway local.

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(1531976)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 7 01:07:56 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Dec 6 20:28:47 2019.

The F would become the new Flushing line service.
The V(the Original 6th avenue Express/Brooklyn Express concept) would replace it on Queens Blvd as the express to 179th St.

M remains the same.
N moves to the Tunnel as the local
R moves to the bridge,as the exp. Continues to Brooklyn as the Brighton Exp'.
J becomes 4th Ave local to 95th St.

So..
F to Main St.
R to Brighten Beach Broadway Exp.
B replaced with enhanced C and D service.
J becomes 4th Ave local replacing the R.
N becomes Broadway local.
Q unchanged.
V replacing F in Queens.

6 Ave
D/F/M and V
F and M locals
D and V Exp.

Broadway
N/Q/R/W
Q and R Broadway Exp.
N and W Broadway local.

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(1531983)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 7 06:36:57 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Dec 6 12:59:29 2019.

They did it to the whole southern division of the BMT, 120' feet worth of extensions, and it didn't cost "billion's" in 1960 dollars.

Your fantasies about replacing the Steinway tunnels and converting the Flushing line to "B" Division is what would cost many billions.

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(1531986)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Dec 7 10:38:58 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 7 01:07:56 2019.

But then you’d have the F and V in the 63rd St Tunnel. That would mean far less F trains to Flushing versus the amount of 7 trains currently running there.

Not to mention one hell of a lot merging elsewhere in the system.

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(1531990)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 7 11:59:54 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Dec 7 10:38:58 2019.

Bigger, longer trains on the Flushing line.
I did away with more than a few merges but kept a few since that could not be helped.
The changes to the R is the most important.
Moving it to the exp along Brighton and Broadway kills most of the issues that ruin the line today.
The N replaces the R from Lexington to 59th st. 4th Ave.
The J provides Supplimented service 95th st to Court St.

No B service.
D trains receive enhanced services,C trains get a boost.
Q,and W remain the same.

Even if there isn't any Flushing swapping...or V train..
You can still move the R to the Broadway Brighton Express from Continental to Brighton Beach.

Or,Make the Q the Brighton Express.
Either way, most of the issues effecting the R train Today won't be a problem anymore.


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(1531998)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by randyo on Sat Dec 7 16:15:27 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line, posted by VictorM on Fri Dec 6 18:44:56 2019.

I agree about the signage issue and obviously some cars other than the R-46s and the NTTs might not have to be swapped but they do have to be assigned somewhere.

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(1531999)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by randyo on Sat Dec 7 16:20:25 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 7 11:59:54 2019.

What would be the Concourse/CPW lcl?

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(1532000)

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Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit

Posted by randyo on Sat Dec 7 16:21:26 2019, in response to Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 6 21:00:42 2019.

When? I only recall 8 car R-46s on the N along with a few R-44s.

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(1532007)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by MTA T on Sat Dec 7 16:59:11 2019, in response to VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line, posted by Dj Hammers on Fri Dec 6 14:59:04 2019.

Hi Max

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(1532008)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Dec 7 17:47:01 2019, in response to VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line, posted by Dj Hammers on Fri Dec 6 14:59:04 2019.

Did I miss something? Why are they doing this?

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(1532011)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Dec 7 17:52:27 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the W Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Dec 7 17:47:01 2019.

Nevermind.

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(1532012)

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Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Dec 7 17:56:00 2019, in response to Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 5 20:14:46 2019.

R46 back on the Astoria line for the first time since 1987. Sans blue stripe, tho ....

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(1532014)

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Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 7 19:11:27 2019, in response to Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 5 20:14:46 2019.

I'm sure they'll love it with its much more comfortable seating & ride...as long as they keep the schedule & the a/c & heat work.

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(1532016)

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Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit

Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 7 19:26:19 2019, in response to Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit, posted by randyo on Sat Dec 7 16:21:26 2019.

In the late 1970's or early 1980's - 6 car R46's. They had not been link barred. All they had to do was uncouple a normal 4 car set.

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(1532019)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 7 19:31:38 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Dec 6 19:35:05 2019.

That depends on who you talk to. At appx 120 years old, some say its obsolete & would not be able to stand up to another Sandy type storm & a replacement should be on someone's 5 year plan before another Sandy happens. Others say that, while not in any imminent danger of failure, an increased inspection & maintenance schedule should buy it some time.

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(1532022)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 7 19:34:45 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 7 00:13:41 2019.

Cant Believe This Crap.

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(1532023)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 7 19:41:29 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 7 19:31:38 2019.

PATH tunnels are even older than Steinway tunnels and no one is thinking of replacing them, even though a portion of the Uptown tunnel is lined with brick.

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(1532026)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 7 19:55:11 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 7 19:41:29 2019.

PATH tunnels under the Hudson are older than the Steinways? Did not know that. However, the Steinway's handle appx 36 TPH in the rush hr. The PATH tunnels run nowhere near that amount of traffic. The amount of traffic and stress & vibratons coupled with age makes the Steinways more vulnerable to traffic induced damage, therefore a good candidate for replacement.

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(1532035)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 7 22:08:25 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 7 19:55:11 2019.

Thru the 1990's, downtown tunnels handled 40 trains per hour. They did not cut them because they weer afraid of the tunnels. They are now getting their 2nd overhaul. The first from 9/11 flooding, the 2nd from Sandy.

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(1532044)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 8 07:15:30 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 6 00:51:02 2019.

It makes no sense to commit to an older tech (Canarsie Line) everywhere.

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(1532046)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 8 08:27:43 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Dec 6 12:59:29 2019.

Wider cars would sure come in handy if the Airtrain is ever built to Willets Point & passengers come on loaded with baggage.

I have taken A Division trains (7), B Division (R) trains, and LIRR to and from NYC airports with luggage. A Division is not worse than B. I can get my luggage out of the way of passengers just fine. It's actually harder to get luggage out of the way on the LIRR, because I don't want to lift my luggage onto the high rack.




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(1532047)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 8 08:29:37 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 7 19:55:11 2019.

What kind of irreparable damage does passage of trains do to tunnels over time?

It seems hard to imagine something that causes damage over 150 or 200 years, but not over 100 years.



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(1532050)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Dec 8 09:23:07 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 8 08:29:37 2019.

Vibrations, induced by the passage of more and heavier trains over the years, specially in older cast iron ring tunnels like Steinway

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(1532055)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Dec 8 12:02:21 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Dec 8 09:23:07 2019.

Older tunnels can be rehabilitated.
The process would strip the walls to the rings and reinforce them.
However, the new lining could be made to fit larger rolling stock.
The Steinway Tubes are very restrictive, considering how they were constructed, with tight clearances, and irregular distortion due to shifting.
The MTA did the best it could do at the time to correct the distortions, but that only lead to slow speed orders.

These are very old tunnels, older than the original IRT Downtown crossing.

Even Amtrak's Hudson Crossing is nothing compared to the Flushing line tubes,as far as Replacement goes.

The process of elimination places the Hudson River tunnels higher priority, but sooner or later, the question of the day is going to be what do you do when one of your most important transportation arteries faces collapse, shut down, and/or needs replacing.

What do you do?

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(1532066)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Dec 8 17:03:56 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 7 19:34:45 2019.

Cant Believe This Crap. Excellent definition of CBTC to most people.

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(1532072)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Dec 8 17:47:16 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Edwards! on Sun Dec 8 12:02:21 2019.

Anything can be fixed...as long as the $$$ and the fire in the belly determination (ala west side #7 extention) is there to get it done.
Having said that, I've read that rebuilding, and enlarging cast iron ringed tunnels is very difficult from an engineering standpoint. In addition, it would be interesting to find out if those tunnels are resting on bedrock as opposed to silt to determine if there is a sagging feature to take into account based on the tunnels 120+ year age.
Those tunnels are so tight, the R62's barely fit. But if rebuilding can be done, then go for it. That would be much cheaper than building a new tunnel from scratch.
My first suggestion would be to figure out a way to get continuous welded rail installed down there & rip up all the bolted "stick" rail to cut down the vibrations and smooth out the ride. That should buy some time while the suits haggle over rebuilding funding.
When the time comes to do the deed & proceed with the rebuilding, do it one tunnel at a time, running single track shuttles between Hudson Yds & QBP & full (as can be expected)QBP service to Main St. with beefed up BMT train service to/from Astoria
If the CWR train cannot negotiate the curves west of QBP, build a temporary ramp just east of the Hunterspoint portal, connecting to LIRR trackage & have the welded rail enter the tunnel that way.
Nice to dream, ain't it??

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(1532073)

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Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit

Posted by randyo on Sun Dec 8 17:53:35 2019, in response to Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit, posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 7 19:26:19 2019.

I recall 6 car R-46s on the GG with the consists including the 2 car R-46 units but I used the N at that time and never saw anything but full 8 car trains.

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(1532077)

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Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines

Posted by randyo on Sun Dec 8 18:14:18 2019, in response to Re: VIDEO: R46s Operating on the G and N Lines, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 8 07:15:30 2019.

Actually, it does unless the cars themselves can be programmed to operate on all CBTC systems and/or older systems made to be upgraded as new technology becomes available.

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(1532080)

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Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit

Posted by Joe V on Sun Dec 8 18:29:15 2019, in response to Re: R46 on the N - CI swap is legit, posted by randyo on Sun Dec 8 17:53:35 2019.

I clearly remember one crossing the Manhattan Bridge too (on a weekend).

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