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Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 4 11:31:10 2019



I was on the 8th Avenue subway on October 28 and noticed a few changes. The R-46's have long been the dominant equipment on the "A" train. I observed six "A" trains; two each of R-32, R-46 and R-179 (in five car sets). The "C" was using a mixture of R-32's and R-179's (in four car sets).

While on the southbound platform at Spring Street in did see a tunnelrat exiting the station. I think he was looking for his friend at 14th Street where they have the pizza.


Larry, RedbirdR33

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(1529014)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by HART BUS on Mon Nov 4 11:55:40 2019, in response to Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 4 11:31:10 2019.

And you didn't say hello to Super Cop?


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(1529019)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 4 12:19:22 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by HART BUS on Mon Nov 4 11:55:40 2019.




And you didn't say hello to Super Cop?


Alan: It was a tunnelrat not THE TUNNELRAT. Besides we had not yet been properly introduced.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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(1529057)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 4 18:34:57 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 4 12:19:22 2019.

Did he pay his fare?:)

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(1529058)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 4 18:36:28 2019, in response to Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 4 11:31:10 2019.

I saw the same during my visit on the 15th through the 17th. Saw two R-32 Abbotts, both headed in the opposite direction, of course, as well as some R-179 sets. Rode on two R-46 trainsets which did not break any speed records along CPW.

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(1529096)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by gbs on Tue Nov 5 03:27:18 2019, in response to Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 4 11:31:10 2019.


I rode an R46 A this afternoon from Broadway Junction to 125 St. Most of the ride was frustratingly slow, hardly any maximum speed at all. With the relatively new timers, the train enters Broadway Junction (and then later Jay St) agonizingly slowly. All along Fulton St there are timers, and at no time did we fly by any local stops. The ride is nothing like the Queens Blvd line, where the express trains do often fly by the local stops. Then even in Manhattan the train rarely achieves sustained maximum speed.

If they're "speeding up the system" it sure ain't happenin' on the A train.

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(1529101)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Express Rider on Tue Nov 5 05:45:57 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 5 03:27:18 2019.

Can anyone answer, why, in spite of the "speeding up the system" PR, new timers are still being installed?

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(1529111)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 5 08:15:44 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Express Rider on Tue Nov 5 05:45:57 2019.

Perhaps there was another train ahead of yours.

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(1529114)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Nov 5 08:19:37 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 4 18:34:57 2019.

Ha your dreaming. He tins the booth I am sure.

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(1529115)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Nov 5 08:34:40 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Express Rider on Tue Nov 5 05:45:57 2019.

To preserve rider aggravation.

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(1529116)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Tue Nov 5 08:51:21 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 5 03:27:18 2019.

During a visit to NY two weeks ago, I rode a northbound R68A B. It did better than anything I previously recall between Atlantic Av. into Dekalb. The fastest, I think, I've ever been through there and, strangely enough, no lurching. No feel of speeding, either, I guess because on an R68A you don't feel the speed. But surely, we did it fast, they must have eased the timers in that stretch. The southbound direction from Dekalb to Atlantic, though, is agonizingly slower than ever. And the timer southbound before the curve into Prospect Park is positioned much too far north than it should be. It was much closer to Prospect Park back in the 60s and 70s.

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(1529125)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Nov 5 11:48:02 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Express Rider on Tue Nov 5 05:45:57 2019.

In the 1st "Taking of The Pelham 123", after the baddies got off, that train hauled ass, "movie magic" , no red signals, no "timers"...... LOL!

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(1529128)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Nov 5 12:52:27 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 5 03:27:18 2019.

When I would work the A line back in the day it was a fast line. With the new signals they have ruined it.

My biggest complaint is the timer on the n/b express track at B'way Jct. at the c/r board. It clears agonizingly slow plus the back of the train is still on the upgrade. There is no justification for that timer IMO.

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(1529132)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Nov 5 13:02:14 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 5 03:27:18 2019.

How do you know there wasn't some obstruction, a delayed train, right in front of you?

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(1529168)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 5 17:51:29 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 5 03:27:18 2019.

On weekends, the A train timetable calls for 53 minutes most of the weekend day from Broad Channel to 34/Penn Station. Each of the several times I have taken it, it takes 60 -61 minutes. I have not figured out where they lose all that time. But 7 minutes of dawdling means they are not running at track speed.

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(1529170)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Nov 5 17:56:53 2019, in response to Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 4 11:31:10 2019.

Love the R-32's. Wonder how much longer they will be around. They're already over 50 years old. Terrific piece of transit equipment.

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(1529186)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 5 19:08:50 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Nov 5 12:52:27 2019.

I agree. As far as Im concerned, there is no justification for ANY timers upgrade.

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(1529187)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 5 19:09:50 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 5 03:27:18 2019.

"You'll get there - eventually." That hasn't seemed to change.

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(1529188)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 5 19:11:16 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Nov 5 11:48:02 2019.

Remember, Mr. Blue demanded that all switches be properly set, all signals green. "I emphasize green, Garber. If I so much as see a red light, let alone get tripped by one, I'll kill another hostage."

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(1529190)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 5 19:12:36 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 5 19:08:50 2019.

Guess the dorks in management never studied physics.

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(1529193)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 5 19:14:22 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by italianstallion on Tue Nov 5 13:02:14 2019.

Im sure he knows the difference between a signal on GT and one that is red or yellow due to a train ahead. At one time there were a few locations such as the Manny B and Willy B that had timers with no special aspect to indicate whether they were on time or not. Otherwise GT signals are designated by an illuminated S below a yellow signal or a lunar white below a red. if neither the S or lunar white are illuminated that means that there is a train ahead.

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(1529199)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by VictorM on Tue Nov 5 19:33:43 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Nov 5 12:52:27 2019.

Maybe they slow down the trains because of the heavy crowds that sometimes appear at the west end of the platform, which has the only entrance.

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(1529208)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by R33/r36 mainline on Tue Nov 5 20:10:42 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 5 03:27:18 2019.

The N/B run is much better with the 179's, they actually fly by local stops on CPW.


42 - 59th N/B is dreadful though no matter what equipment it is.

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(1529224)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by ro_jo on Tue Nov 5 23:58:33 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by R33/r36 mainline on Tue Nov 5 20:10:42 2019.

Sad too because 59-42 S/B is a pleasantly speedy express run.

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(1529226)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by gbs on Wed Nov 6 00:53:26 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Nov 5 17:56:53 2019.


Most of us here probably have a soft spot in our hearts for them, and many of us remember when they were new, and there is something special about their longevity.

But today, unless I want the RFW, I don't enjoy riding in them. Their interior lighting and colors are unpleasant, they're noisy and their ride is harsh, the retro-fit air-conditioners are problematic, and they just feel antiquated and primitive. We've all gotten used to better. I imagine the crews are tired of them too, the operators being confined to the tiny cab, the conductors having to change cars to change sides.

Nevertheless, there's that RFW and soft spot....



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(1529227)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by gbs on Wed Nov 6 00:54:58 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by ro_jo on Tue Nov 5 23:58:33 2019.


As is southbound through 23 St, but northbound is crawlly.

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(1529247)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Nov 6 11:14:52 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by gbs on Wed Nov 6 00:53:26 2019.

Thank You. I agree.

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(1529263)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Q4 on Wed Nov 6 15:28:20 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 5 19:09:50 2019.

MTA = Might Take Awhile

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(1529271)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 6 17:06:02 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by VictorM on Tue Nov 5 19:33:43 2019.

Dont you mean the EAST (RR south) end of the platform.

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(1529273)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 6 17:21:37 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by gbs on Wed Nov 6 00:53:26 2019.

If you were ever a M/M on them as I was, you would probably say that Pre GOH the were the best operating SMEEs on the NYCTS. I had the opportunity to operate them after GOH and the GOH was definitely not an improvement.

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(1529275)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by VictorM on Wed Nov 6 17:31:05 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 6 17:06:02 2019.

Yes, you're right!

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(1529295)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Nov 6 21:50:30 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by gbs on Wed Nov 6 00:53:26 2019.

My favorite car class is R46 but that is followed closely by R32. The retro style is awesome and now unique in the US. It's basically a museum train you can get fairly easily on 8th ave.

The R46 simply provides a smooth, comfortable, quiet ride. I wish they just made that the template for every B division car class since, the R143/R160 style would be for the eastern division. Nothing since comes close.

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(1529297)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Nov 6 23:07:15 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Nov 6 21:50:30 2019.

Pretty good post. I pretty much totally agree with you.

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 7 13:54:49 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Nov 6 21:50:30 2019.

Exactly!
The R46 has the sweetest most comfortable ride out of All subway cars.
The Soundproofing is unequalled..
If there were some way to chop those 75ft cars to 60.6 ft, rebuild them to modern standards... while retaining their charm.. like PATCO..
Then the need for billion dollar new car contracts won't be needed so much.

They can even be rebuilt with articulated joints/open gangways..!

One 8 car set is all that's needed.. like the one rebuilt set on the A line.
This set has had it's interior refurbished to NTT/ADA standards.

Why Not rebuild the fleet?

Preserve the R46

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(1529326)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 7 13:55:55 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Nov 6 21:50:30 2019.

Exactly!
The R46 has the sweetest most comfortable ride out of All subway cars.
The Soundproofing is unequalled..
If there were some way to chop those 75ft cars to 60.6 ft, rebuild them to modern standards... while retaining their charm.. like PATCO..
Then the need for billion dollar new car contracts won't be needed so much.

They can even be rebuilt with articulated joints/open gangways..!

One 8 car Test set is all that's needed.. like the one rebuilt set on the A line.
This set has had it's interior refurbished to NTT/ADA standards.

Why Not rebuild the fleet?

Preserve the R46

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(1529328)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Nov 7 13:57:32 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 7 13:54:49 2019.

Very accurate post.

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(1529330)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Nov 7 14:54:44 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 7 13:54:49 2019.

While I haven't personally liked the R46 all that much since they got rid of the blue stripe, I do have to agree that they're the quietest riding cars. Perhaps new cars could have installed whatever makes the R46s so quiet?

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(1529332)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 7 15:11:07 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Nov 7 14:54:44 2019.

The NTT are only loud because of the HAVC, if you ride in a tech train with the HVAC off or broke, their very quiet.

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(1529334)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 7 15:17:02 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 7 13:54:49 2019.

I like the 46s but I think they should be scrapped once the 211s come. The HVAC is weak on the 46s and the tech trains are far superior in that regard. 40+ years is a great run for a subway car, let them retire with some dignity and not be limping along like the 32s and 42s are (MDBF wise)

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(1529335)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 7 15:17:56 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 7 15:17:02 2019.

Also IMO would lose all their charm if they got upgraded into tech trains.

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(1529336)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 7 15:20:11 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by gbs on Wed Nov 6 00:53:26 2019.

To me the remaining 42s are more pleasant to ride than the 32s and stop smoother. They look like crap but the ride is decent on the 42s.

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(1529339)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 7 16:07:11 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Nov 7 14:54:44 2019.

The HVAC system on 160s make the cars loud.
The cars ride smoothly however because of the improvement in air bag technicals..
But that is nothing compared to the R46s.

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(1529342)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 7 16:56:14 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 7 13:55:55 2019.

I have mentioned in several posts that since the post GOH R-46s have certain technological amenities that the R-68s and 68As lack such as OB drawheads and electronic signs it wouldnt surprise me if thy dont outlast the 68s and 68As the way the R-32s are outlasting several newer car contracts.

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(1529368)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Nov 8 00:53:03 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 7 16:56:14 2019.

The R-46 is restricted from the Eastern Division - the MTA needs cars that can be sent to where they are needed. The 75 foot long cars were a mistake ( in my view ) made by someone who only thought about saving money and did not take into account any problems that would arise.

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(1529377)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Nov 8 07:19:20 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 7 16:56:14 2019.

But are the R46 car bodies in good enough condition to permit replacement of the R68s/R68As first?

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(1529406)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Edwards! on Fri Nov 8 12:01:52 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 7 15:17:02 2019.

PATCO cars are just as old as the 46s, and they were rebuilt.
In England,The D Stock were rebuilt into modern railcars after over 50 years of service.
Because some thing is old, doesn't mean it's outlived it's usefulness.

The shell are inspected regularly, so why can't the very best of them be retained for refurbment?

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(1529407)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Edwards! on Fri Nov 8 12:02:06 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 7 15:17:02 2019.

PATCO cars are just as old as the 46s, and they were rebuilt.
In England,The D Stock were rebuilt into modern railcars after over 50 years of service.
Because some thing is old, doesn't mean it's outlived it's usefulness.

The shell are inspected regularly, so why can't the very best of them be retained for refurbishment?

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(1529436)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Nov 8 15:54:08 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 5 19:11:16 2019.

My favorite movie! Thank you, Steve B-8AVEXP

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(1529445)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by randyo on Fri Nov 8 17:53:48 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Nov 8 07:19:20 2019.

That will probably have to be looked into when the time comes.

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(1529477)

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Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway

Posted by Train Dude on Fri Nov 8 23:37:22 2019, in response to Re: Some notes for the Eight Avenue Subway, posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 7 15:17:02 2019.

The AC on the R-46 is 9 Tons per end or 216,000 BTU per car. That was the same as on the 60 foot cars. By contrast, the R44s had 240,000 BTU per car. Of course in 1991 when the R46s we're overhauled, the size of the HVAC Units we're seen as adequate.

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