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| 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel (1526242) | |
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| (1526244) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Oct 8 12:11:44 2019, in response to 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 8 11:36:16 2019. Train service still suspended south of Hunters Point AveNot intending to hijack a thread about a sad event, but do you understand that the use of the word "south" in that sentence has little meaning for many people? And in fact, Hudson Yards is significantly north of Hunterspoint Avenue. |
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| (1526246) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by BrooklynTrain on Tue Oct 8 12:32:41 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by AlM on Tue Oct 8 12:11:44 2019. I think they use the words North and South to signify which direction the trains move in Manhattan. Example F train runs express southbound in Queens = Coney Island bound.They can't use a destination (such as 34th-Hudson in place of the words North or South) since I don't believe there are currently thru-trains to 34th-Hudson Yds. |
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| (1526250) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Oct 8 13:28:45 2019, in response to 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 8 11:36:16 2019. How'd they get into the East River Tunnel? |
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| (1526253) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 13:53:45 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by AlM on Tue Oct 8 12:11:44 2019. True subway fans understand that north/south are terms used to identify the direction of travel of trains specific to that line only. So you might understand, a J train at Myrtle Ave Manhattan bound is said to be going South while an M train at the same station traveling in the same direction us considered northbound.I would have thought that you would have understood that. |
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| (1526259) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Oct 8 14:39:37 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Oct 8 13:28:45 2019. Station to tracks most likely. |
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| (1526261) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Tue Oct 8 15:00:25 2019, in response to 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 8 11:36:16 2019. i thought when the redbirds were gone rail service would be perfect |
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| (1526270) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:21:57 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 13:53:45 2019. Hopefully the MTA planners will change the J’s directions back to Pre Chrystie like it should be. Back pre Metro North and most likely pre Penn/Central, NYC trains lvg GCT were RR westbound while NH trains lvg GCT in the same physical direction were RR eastbound even though the actual physical direction was northbound. |
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| (1526271) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:23:15 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Tue Oct 8 15:00:25 2019. The type of rolling stick has no bearing on incidents involving passengers. |
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| (1526282) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Oct 8 18:03:28 2019, in response to 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 8 11:36:16 2019. Trackworker, trespasser? |
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| (1526283) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 8 18:08:37 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:23:15 2019. The type of rolling stick has no bearing on incidents involving passengers.There was some question as to whether a passenger or worker was the victim, according to one description. There are two questions. 1. Was the T/O as alert to what was out front, while running under ATO? 2. There's a radio beacon that workers carry, with most CBTC installations. The radio beacon communicates the worker's presence to the CBTC system which automatically slows down/stops approaching trains. However, NYCT decided against this extra expense. If a worker must go onto the tracks, that worker must first call command. Command will then cause this info to be entered into the CBTC system and then authorize the person to enter the tracks. This process takes 10 to 20 minutes. |
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| (1526285) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Oct 8 18:19:59 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Oct 8 18:03:28 2019. Could be someone pissing or smoking between the cars and fell under... |
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| (1526287) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 18:27:13 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 8 18:08:37 2019. Why not simply install a flashing yellow at the station just before the area where the worker has to go? CTA has that and underneath the flashing yellow is a black on yellow sign that reads “WA” which presumably stands for workers ahead. The worker merely energizes the sign to alert T/Os of his/her presence ahead and to be on the lookout. |
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| (1526292) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 8 19:59:54 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 13:53:45 2019. Septa's MFSE runs east and west on Market St.In the Frankford section, it runs rather North and South. Septa calls the whole line East and West, or Frankford bound of 69th St. Bound. |
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| (1526294) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 20:14:15 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:21:57 2019. Well then there is the OTHER issue with the M train. The southern terminal on the line is geographically north of the northern terminal. Go figure. |
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| (1526295) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 20:16:54 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 8 19:59:54 2019. There are any number of those oddities in the wide world of transit. |
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| (1526299) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 20:22:52 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Oct 8 18:19:59 2019. Could be exactly that |
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| (1526309) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Oct 8 21:25:03 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Oct 8 18:19:59 2019. Maybe. From my experience of subway riding, the between car pissers & smokers usually come out between 1 & 5 AM. This happened around 8. Must have been coming home from an after hours joint. |
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| (1526310) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by BrooklynTrain on Tue Oct 8 21:35:20 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 20:14:15 2019. Isn't Metropolitan Ave (southern terminal) SOUTH of 71st Ave (northern terminal)? (I'm not talking about when 71st Ave makes that crazy 90 degree turn into Forest Hills Gardens.) |
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| (1526312) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 21:58:24 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by BrooklynTrain on Tue Oct 8 21:35:20 2019. Metropolitan Ave runs slightly NW. In fairness, I've also seen maps that show Metropolitan. Ave slightly south too. |
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| (1526316) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Oct 8 22:47:41 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by AlM on Tue Oct 8 12:11:44 2019. And in fact, Hudson Yards is significantly north of Hunterspoint Avenue.Not if using the Manhattan geodetic datum, where HP is clearly north of the 34th parallel North of Houston. |
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| (1526317) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Oct 8 22:50:17 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 20:14:15 2019. According to Wikipedia, Metro is at 40° 42′ 44.03″ N and 71-Continental is at 40° 43′ 17.05″ N |
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| (1526319) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 23:32:23 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Oct 8 22:50:17 2019. Ok thanks for the info |
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| (1526320) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 8 23:43:00 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 18:27:13 2019. What you described works only if the worker and train are proceeding in same direction from where flashing yellow light or yellow flag are placed. Fatal problems have occurred when worker proceeds on track before warning or train is wrong railing. |
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| (1526329) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Oct 9 03:23:18 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 23:32:23 2019. In Southern Pacific days, any train headed toward SF (the center of the world, right?) was WB,; away,EB. So a geographically SB train from Portland to Oakland was considered a WB. PRR considered trains from NYC to Wash WB, not SB.And in highway signage here in the SF Bay Area, we have a stretch of I-80 and I-580 (shared ROW for several miles) running N-S. Entry ramp signage shows I-80 East and I-580 West pointing in the same direction. |
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| (1526354) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Oct 9 10:36:56 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Oct 9 03:23:18 2019. Thanks. The original point that I tried to make was that the direction of travel identified by the railroad was only about their convention and not about geographical reality. |
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| (1526355) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Wed Oct 9 10:47:36 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Oct 9 03:23:18 2019. That's like the Grand Central Parkway being signed as East and West even though it runs N-S between Laguardia Airport and Union Turnpike.And the BQE runs essentially N-S in Brooklyn and Queens but it's signed as (I-278 E-W) |
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| (1526357) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 9 12:52:00 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by N6 Limited on Wed Oct 9 10:47:36 2019. I-95 in Connecticut. |
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| (1526364) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 13:42:32 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 9 12:52:00 2019. Right, but I-95 runs from FL to ME, and its direction is overwhelmingly N-S. The 7's direction is overwhelmingly E-W, and giving it a south end and a north end is railroad jargon that means nothing to anyone else. |
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| (1526367) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Oct 9 14:13:20 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 13:42:32 2019. It's hard to find a street anywhere that runs exactly magnetic north . The "north"streets in Manhattan seem to run NNE??? |
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| (1526368) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 9 14:19:10 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Oct 9 14:13:20 2019. Plenty of American cities have streets that run geographic north-south. Chicago for one. |
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| (1526369) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Oct 9 14:48:45 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 9 14:19:10 2019. Thank you! My bad! |
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| (1526370) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Oct 9 14:50:55 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Oct 9 14:48:45 2019. I just did a MapQuest on Chicago, Ill. You are on the money, Spider-Pig |
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| (1526373) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 15:18:28 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Oct 9 14:13:20 2019. Manhattan avenues run 29 degrees north of east. |
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| (1526374) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 9 15:27:14 2019, in response to 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Oct 8 11:36:16 2019. So what actually happened?12-9 was in the East River tunnel? Was the person walking or found on the ROW itself, or just a jumper or fall from a platform? |
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| (1526402) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 9 17:16:18 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 8 23:43:00 2019. For the sake of safety, the workers would have to enter the work area from the appropriate direction. |
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| (1526404) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 9 17:24:04 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 8 20:14:15 2019. Actually, on most of the BMT East, the south terminals were physically north of the north terminals. Jamaica, Lefferts (pre IND) and Met are perfect examples. Their designation as south terminals would make more sense if the Eastern Div els had been connected into the BMT’s Bway subway as per dual contract plans. It definitely rings true with the present configuration of the M, the original KK service and the A Line out of Lefferts which was originally BMT East. |
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| (1526405) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 9 17:29:13 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 8 19:59:54 2019. According to a BMT old timer I knew, originally, BMT lines were designated east and west instead of north and south. Lvg CI, and the Eastern Div terminals was west and outbound towards CI and the eastern Div terminals was east. How that played out with the Astoria and Flushing Lines I don’t know, since lvg Flushing is physically westbound but technically part of a Southern Div CI bound line it would probably be considered eastbound. |
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| (1526406) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Oct 9 17:30:39 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by BrooklynTrain on Tue Oct 8 21:35:20 2019. Middle Village - Metropolitan Avenue Station is definitely farther south than Forest Hills - 71 Avenue Station. But not by all that much. |
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| (1526407) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 9 17:31:36 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Oct 8 21:25:03 2019. Although it is not always the case, it seems that 99% of incidents of passengers falling to tracks between cars involves doing something illegal like smoking or urinating between cars rather than merely crossing from one car to another. |
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| (1526415) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Oct 9 17:47:36 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 8 23:43:00 2019. Well, if an unscheduled wrong rail movement happens along a track full of trackworkers, wouldn't it make sense that communications would be made to the crew down there that this is about to happen via radio contact to the track foreman ( and the T/O leaning on the horn) with acknowledgement of the message, noting time, location & names so everything is on tape? Two reasons for doing that, one to save lives & two, CYA.I'll assume that the TA has rules & procedures etc.that govern situations like that. |
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| (1526422) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Oct 9 18:09:53 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 15:18:28 2019. Thank you. |
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| (1526429) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 9 18:36:56 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Oct 9 14:48:45 2019. Geographic north or magnetic north. Vincennes IN runs according to the shadow at the fall equinox, the old Indian way of lining things up, since the had no compass to tell the which way was north.ROAR |
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| (1526436) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Oct 9 19:24:03 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 9 18:36:56 2019. Thank you. |
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| (1526438) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed Oct 9 19:35:27 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 15:18:28 2019. I think you mean 29 degrees east of north (compass heading 029). |
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| (1526439) | |
Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 19:59:27 2019, in response to Re: 12-9 on (7) train in East River tunnel, posted by VictorM on Wed Oct 9 19:35:27 2019. Yes I do. |
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