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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jan 6 15:12:54 2019, in response to Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 5 18:33:29 2019.

I'm an regular L rider, it's easy to get a seat on BK bound L trains in early evenings on Saturday's... L trains to the city due sometimes be SRO in the afternoons though.

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(1499039)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 6 15:15:01 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 6 13:01:50 2019.

Regardless of what it looks like on a map, trolley and light rail are NOT the same as heavy rapid transit.

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(1499049)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 6 15:31:16 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 10:07:06 2019.

1968.

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(1499054)

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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 6 15:38:09 2019, in response to Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jan 6 15:12:54 2019.

Well, yesterday at 5:30 the inbound trains were pretty empty. That may have been due to three trains in a row with 4 minute headways, though.


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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 6 16:14:28 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by randyo on Sun Jan 6 15:15:01 2019.

Except that they co exist between the downtown Cleveland 'Terminal Tower" and the point where the Shaker Heights Rapid diverges to become a private median ROW with Breda built "light rail vehicles" (which replaced MU capable PCCs) while the "Red Line" continues as high platform transit with subway looking cars.
I should note that for years the Red Line ridership is so low that in off hours the T/O collects fares.

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(1499068)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 16:27:00 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 6 16:14:28 2019.

Seems that the Red Line should have been light rail in the first place.
Airport extension wasn't the magic bullet either.

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(1499075)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 6 16:58:23 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 10:07:06 2019.

That's kinda my point. The so called MTA was a new entity when the R44s came along. I would think the 75 footers were related to the new LIRR cars at the time.
I suppose that's an obvious statement by me. But I don't think 75 foot cars were a bad idea. I'm one of the few that actually likes them.

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(1499076)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 17:00:20 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 6 16:58:23 2019.

They had things like the Queens Express Bypass in mind for them.
The original brakes in the R44's sounded like M-1's (and PATCO).

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(1499077)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 6 17:04:41 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 17:00:20 2019.

I would imagine they were ordered with great things in mind. Even the second ave subway right?

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(1499078)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 17:09:59 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 6 17:04:41 2019.

Yes, and LIRR service run onto the Nassau Loop from the Atlantic Branch. It was rumored the TA had 5 rush hour gaps on the Brighton Line schedules to accommodate then. Ronan was quite a dreamer.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 6 17:43:28 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 17:09:59 2019.

It's good to dream

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(1499088)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 6 18:34:26 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 16:27:00 2019.

What we now call the Red Line was planned before the Depression but opened in 1955. All high platform, barrier fare control rapid transit style. Ther route mostly used surplus ROW along mainline RRs between East Cleveland and the early West Side terminals.
As to the Airport, they were the first US city. Sadly, however, Cleveland has lost much of its industrial base and executive HQs. Like unto Philly, hollowed out economically.
(for examples, Sohio--merged out of town, C&O, Erie, same story.) So, fewer suits copmmuting to offices whether driving or taking transit.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by italianstallion on Sun Jan 6 18:45:31 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 6 18:34:26 2019.

Philly's in a lot better shape than Cleveland.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by 3-9 on Sun Jan 6 18:47:48 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 5 17:47:20 2019.

That still puts them in quite the minority, though.

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(1499093)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by 3-9 on Sun Jan 6 19:06:08 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 6 16:58:23 2019.

I didn't realize so many people hated them. I grew up with them, so I have no problem with the cars, at least with their size.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 6 19:12:06 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by 3-9 on Sun Jan 6 18:47:48 2019.

Not to mention that even of NJ residents who drive into NYC, most don't drive anywhere near 14th Street.



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(1499108)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jan 6 21:12:56 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 17:00:20 2019.

Yup.
The NEW MTA had a plan.
1) replace the pre war cars by the mid 70s with rhe introduction of the 375ft contracts (R44/46/55).
2)Contracts R44/46 to be used on routes linked to the new subways being planned,such as Second ave..Queens Bypass,Long Island Expressway and the South Jamaica lines.
3)Replace older cars every few years...as with former contracted cars..
New cars such as the R38/40/42 were all delivered back to back 1967...68...69 to 70.
The new cars would be longer..new tech to enable ATO ATS ATC along the new routes that will have cab signaled tech.

However,the bottom dropped out of all wishful thinking.

The 3rd car order never was placed..the 44 and 46 were lemons that took years to get working correctly.
The new routes never appeared in the proposed plan..only shortened versions.

The plan for the Eastern Division line and stations expansion/reroute was deferred due to the cancelled new routes program.
The R55 joint system car was a wash...it was the car planned for the Eastern Division lines to replace the R7/9 cars and service expansion.



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(1499109)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jan 6 21:13:36 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 17:00:20 2019.

Yup.
The NEW MTA had a plan.
1) replace the pre war cars by the mid 70s with rhe introduction of the 3 75ft contracts (R44/46/55).
2)Contracts R44/46 to be used on routes linked to the new subways being planned,such as Second ave..Queens Bypass,Long Island Expressway and the South Jamaica lines.
3)Replace older cars every few years...as with former contracted cars..
New cars such as the R38/40/42 were all delivered back to back 1967...68...69 to 70.
The new cars would be longer..new tech to enable ATO ATS ATC along the new routes that will have cab signaled tech.

However,the bottom dropped out of all wishful thinking.

The 3rd car order never was placed..the 44 and 46 were lemons that took years to get working correctly.
The new routes never appeared in the proposed plan..only shortened versions.

The plan for the Eastern Division line and stations expansion/reroute was deferred due to the cancelled new routes program.
The R55 joint system car was a wash...it was the car planned for the Eastern Division lines to replace the R7/9 cars and service expansion.



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(1499113)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by jimmymc25 on Sun Jan 6 21:59:36 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by 3-9 on Sun Jan 6 19:06:08 2019.

Me neither. I remember them on the D and thought they were kind of cool.

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(1499124)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 7 00:54:40 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 6 19:12:06 2019.

Right, but that additional traffic on top of other traffic diverted is the issue.

Just because the NJ drivers themselves would not be near 14th Street, their traffic on other blocks added on to those going to/coming from elsewhere is what creates the problem.

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(1499125)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 7 01:50:12 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 7 00:54:40 2019.

unless you are delivering materials/merchandise etc, ferrying seriously disabled persons, or transporting heavy tools/equipment, I have zero sympathy for driving in Manhattan. As any of us who have lived there and now live in lower transit quality cities can tell you....

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(1499126)

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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by displaced angeleno on Mon Jan 7 02:39:36 2019, in response to Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Jan 6 07:30:39 2019.

I do that most days, twice a day.

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(1499129)

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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 7 07:00:52 2019, in response to Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by displaced angeleno on Mon Jan 7 02:39:36 2019.

PWN3D!

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(1499130)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jan 7 07:22:43 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 4 16:45:27 2019.

Yep- the service guide on the 1978 map states such explicitly (I was going to say "expressly", but that'd be an awful pun).

Ok- well, the guide doesn't state where the trains turned. But it does state that the G ended at Queens Plaza during "midnight hours", and the F ran local.

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(1499131)

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Re: Ben Kabak's take - Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jan 7 07:41:49 2019, in response to Ben Kabak's take - Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 4 16:19:54 2019.

Very good article. Thanks for sharing. I guess we'll find out in 20 years if this was an acceptable substitute- or a spit-'n-bubble gum, handyman special job.

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(1499132)

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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by MTA T on Mon Jan 7 07:45:15 2019, in response to Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Chicago44 on Sun Jan 6 10:41:02 2019.

idk, vtrain

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by zac on Mon Jan 7 07:47:21 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 10:07:06 2019.

They continued to order 75' cars even too, so this wasn't considered a problem.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jan 7 08:38:07 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by pragmatist on Thu Jan 3 16:51:40 2019.

Quotingpragmatist

The engineering advisory group seems to be made up of the type of people that wouldn't need to go out on a limb to try and make someone look good to advance their standing.They are all pretty much at the top of their profession. Lots of things other systems do that we have avoided because we always want to do what we always did. Sometimes that's not a bad thing, but on the other hand when someone else has a better or more efficient way to do something, we can't always look for excuses why we should be 100 years behind.

I'm not an engineer, I was a mechanical design/draftsman. I seems that this "hanging the cables"idea is what is going to speed up the process. Assuming that is really going to work for the long term, then we have a plan.



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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by AlM on Mon Jan 7 10:18:33 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jan 7 08:38:07 2019.

Assuming that is really going to work for the long term

And that's the question. Will this be opening up the tunnels to dozens of emergency repairs over the next 20 years as pieces of the bench wall collapse?



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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 7 12:59:00 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by AlM on Mon Jan 7 10:18:33 2019.

If they are any kind of smart, once the new cables are in service, the bench area should be demolished/repaired section by section. The value of the scheme, IF I understand it correctly, is that installing fresh cables should be much faster so that none of the work requires full shut down. That, it seems to me is the point of the new plan.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jan 7 13:08:00 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 7 12:59:00 2019.

Thank you, Jackson Park B Train

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by AlM on Mon Jan 7 13:14:32 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 7 12:59:00 2019.

That makes sense.

Somehow I don't think this is only going to be 65 weekends, though.



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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by jailhousedoc on Mon Jan 7 13:56:25 2019, in response to Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by MTA T on Thu Jan 3 13:03:20 2019.

why is the governor touting the cheap fix instead of the proper repair job ? the cheap fix will not last long and will require a major do-over in a few years - once he is long gone. The proper repair job will last longer and pay for itself in the long run. Why do they not see this ?

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 7 15:38:12 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by AlM on Mon Jan 7 13:14:32 2019.

Still wearing my optimistic hat, my hope isthatthe recabling canbe done efficiently with single tracking very late nights. After that is done, the demolition/repair can be done on a less pressured schedule.
On my cynical/pessimistic/realist days, it will all be f''ked up AND over priced. I would be pleased to be wrong.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 7 15:51:47 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 7 01:50:12 2019.

Well in my case I have to go into Manhattan for doctors.

Right now with 2 bad knees, I can't walk very far and subway stairs are killers.

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Re: Odds Of An R42 Running This Weekend?

Posted by Nilet on Mon Jan 7 17:59:18 2019, in response to Re: Odds Of An R42 Running This Weekend?, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Fri Jan 4 22:24:46 2019.

I didn't see any Saturday, but there were, in fact, 2 sets running on Sunday.

So this past weekend, I got an R42 on the (J) and an M3 on the "J" for double RFW bonus.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 7 19:37:21 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 7 01:50:12 2019.

Unfortunately I have had to drive into Manhattan for my gigs since the local music venues stopped providing sound equipment for the bands years ago so I have to be my own roadie.

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(1499218)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by AlM on Mon Jan 7 19:43:49 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 7 19:37:21 2019.

So you fall into his "transporting heavy equipment" category.


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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by AlM on Mon Jan 7 19:45:07 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 7 15:51:47 2019.

Yeah, my wife has bad knees too. She can use buses a lot, but subway trips have to be planned with elevators or escalators in mind. And sometimes it has to be a taxi.





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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 7 20:33:54 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by jailhousedoc on Mon Jan 7 13:56:25 2019.

According to the press coverage I have seen the alternate repair is not a “cheap fix” but a legitimate method of installing tunnel cables that has been in use in Europe for years and is also used on the Wash DC Metro.

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Re: Odds Of An R42 Running This Weekend?

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jan 7 21:58:03 2019, in response to Re: Odds Of An R42 Running This Weekend?, posted by Nilet on Mon Jan 7 17:59:18 2019.

They had to catch a few Zzzzzs on Saturday.:)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 7 23:22:59 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by AlM on Mon Jan 7 19:43:49 2019.

Pretty much.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jan 8 02:36:24 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 7 23:22:59 2019.

As others have said, IMHO musical equipment is just like large construction tools. I don't envision boarding the subway w/ a table saw or PA and instruments. As to B from M's bad knees, yes of course--did I not type seriousy disabled? I had a family member living in NYC who used a wheelchair mid 90s to 05. Mostly traveled by bus. As we age (I wlll hit 75 in late summer) stairs become serious issues.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Express Rider on Tue Jan 8 02:53:43 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jan 8 02:36:24 2019.

re: I don't envision boarding the subway w/ a table saw

One of the larger home improvement stores, with branches throughout NYC, and a liberal return policy; it is not beyond comprehension (mine anyway) given what has been brought onto the subway through the years, that someone, or two people without other transporation, would bring a table saw onto the subway that they were going to return to one of these stores....

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 8 07:31:15 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by AlM on Mon Jan 7 19:45:07 2019.

Going up and down steps is not fun for me because of my knees, so I love low floor buses and rapid transit platforms (level boarding). When I was younger , I had no sympathy for old folks who hobbled around. Now the laugh is on me.:)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 8 09:22:11 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jan 8 02:36:24 2019.

did I not type seriousy disabled

But you should have typed somewhat disabled.

People who can walk two blocks are not considered seriously disabled, but they will often still need a private vehicle (including taxi in that category) to get around.




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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Michael549 on Tue Jan 8 12:48:58 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Express Rider on Tue Jan 8 02:53:43 2019.

From a previous message:

"re: I don't envision boarding the subway w/ a table saw

One of the larger home improvement stores, with branches throughout NYC, and a liberal return policy; it is not beyond comprehension (mine anyway) given what has been brought onto the subway through the years, that someone, or two people without other transporation, would bring a table saw onto the subway that they were going to return to one of these stores.... "

---

Man, New York is getting stranger every day! (Smile)

Does anyone have any pictures of this?

Just wondering.

Mike


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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 8 12:58:24 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 8 07:31:15 2019.

And because of how I sometimes shop, I have an appreciation for those elevators that are in many stations. They are definitely needed well beyond their intended purpose.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jan 8 12:58:57 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Michael549 on Tue Jan 8 12:48:58 2019.

well, maybe. There is video of someone moving a fridge on BART I think. If one still has the box, putting the saw on a hand truck seems perfectly reasonable. I was more suggesting that a carpenter would not be likely to haul a table saw to a job site on transit although I carry a right angle drill sometimes for my electrical work.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 8 13:00:25 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 7 20:33:54 2019.

He also didn't want a full shutdown still going in the middle of a possible Presidential campaign.

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