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| [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) (1495551) | |
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| (1495551) | |
[PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018  June 1982 - Looking the other way, the "Y" shaped columns are ready for further steel work  September 1982 - New and old structures are compared.  November 1984 - Broadside comparison of both structures. The R-16 on the right is #6398, currently a museum car.  May 1985 - No trains on the el because the track panels have been removed. Razing the old steel work is next.  June 1985 - The structure has been removed and ready for the new steel for the subway connection  August 1985 - The new structure in red lead primer paint is taking shape.  August 1985 - The new steel work is connected to the older structure.  September 1985 - Installation of track panels is taking place. Painting of structure would come later.  THE END |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Dec 12 11:06:32 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. nicework. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Dec 12 11:23:46 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Thank you! |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Dec 12 11:54:29 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Dec 12 11:23:46 2018. Thank you! Bill Newkirk. I love construction photos:) |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Q4 on Wed Dec 12 12:51:02 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Dec 12 11:54:29 2018. Thanks for the photos. |
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| (1495573) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 12 13:09:17 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Except for the graffiti, great pictures. |
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| (1495576) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by El-Train on Wed Dec 12 13:25:10 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Your photos are a treasure. Thanks Bill! |
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| (1495581) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Wed Dec 12 14:08:41 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. nice photos |
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| (1495583) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Allan on Wed Dec 12 14:14:10 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Great photos, Bill |
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| (1495591) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Dec 12 14:55:26 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Like... .Like... Like ... |
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| (1495609) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Dec 12 16:34:02 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. If they had designed to Archer Av connection the same way the connections for the Culver and Fulton St els were done, the Jamaica el to 168 St could have been kept running until the actual weekend the new line went into service. |
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| (1495612) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Dec 12 17:10:26 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Thanks for the photos.The line was never supposed to end at Parsons Boulevard, though. Not by a long shot. |
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| (1495629) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 12 19:34:54 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. I remember watching this as it happened. They literally had the tracks ripped off the old structure within a week. Once the structure was up work seemed to tail off big time. The crossover wasn't installed at 121st until 1987. |
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| (1495631) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 20:02:28 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 12 19:34:54 2018. Is this it ? (May 1985) 
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| (1495634) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Dec 12 20:15:11 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by randyo on Wed Dec 12 16:34:02 2018. Apples & oranges as they say. When they connected the Fulton St & Culver lines, there wasn't any outcry for a removal of an existing El structure by any local merchants & politicians, like what happened on Jamaica Ave.The Culver Shuttle remained & AFAIK nobody was demanding removal of the Fulton St El east of B'way Jct. Simply put, they never would have put up with the Jamaica El going to 168 until the Archer Ave connection was built. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by WayneJay on Wed Dec 12 21:23:40 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Awesome! Thanks for the trip down memory lane. |
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| (1495644) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Mike Cruz on Wed Dec 12 22:17:02 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Man I remember seein this stuff as a kid and thinkin it was gonna be a 2nd section of the J in the area. Awesome shots! |
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| (1495649) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Dec 12 23:09:09 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Dec 12 14:55:26 2018. yeah.......................!! :)Bill, Thank you for sharing these. Excellent photos. Now with such great historic value! As someone else has posted, these photos are a real treasure! |
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Question: Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by gbs on Thu Dec 13 01:36:08 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. When they installed the new (red) steel posts, did they use the same underground footings from the old posts that had been removed? |
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| (1495657) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 13 02:47:55 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Dec 12 14:55:26 2018. Do you remember qualifying on Archer before revenue service. |
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| (1495658) | |
Re: Question: Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by VictorM on Thu Dec 13 04:51:17 2018, in response to Question: Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by gbs on Thu Dec 13 01:36:08 2018. No, they didn't. They used new footings and columns that were not in the same locations as the old ones. |
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| (1495659) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by VictorM on Thu Dec 13 04:58:59 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 20:02:28 2018. Yes, that's the location of the crossover at the east end of 121 St station, but while they may have started construction in 1985, it didn't go into service until about October 1987 when they resumed 2-track operation between 111 and 121 streets. |
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| (1495671) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Dec 13 07:22:24 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Thank You!!Interesting that despite this work, in 1986, they were toying with the idea of ending the J at Crescent Street- which would have made all this work a waste. I'm glad (as I'm sure all of us are) that didn't happen. Then the portion of the old El east of this point stood until 1990! |
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| (1495676) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Thu Dec 13 08:19:53 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Mitch45 on Wed Dec 12 17:10:26 2018. Besides the upper level's tracks being proposed as going far out to Springfield Gardens, the lower level tracks goes further and end at a point where there is a provision to possibly extend the "J" line. There is space for a diamond crossover switch near its bell mouth, perhaps for a Merrick Boulevard terminal station.-William A. Padron ["Jamaica-Parsons Blvd."] |
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| (1495749) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 13 15:30:33 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 13 02:47:55 2018. Yes I did. |
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| (1495775) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 13 18:09:39 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Dec 12 20:15:11 2018. Only goes to show that you should be careful what you wish for because you might get it. Many of the merchants along Jamaica Av wanted the el down and because there was no immediate convenient replacement, many of them went out of business when it did come down. |
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| (1495776) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 13 18:12:47 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by William A. Padron on Thu Dec 13 08:19:53 2018. Although that may be a remote possibility, When I was in the schedule office in the 1970s, there were no plans immediate or otherwise to extend the J Line past Parsons. The IND level was, however definitely supposed to be extended much farther out. |
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| (1495780) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 13 19:45:53 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by MainR3664 on Thu Dec 13 07:22:24 2018. "...Interesting that despite this work, in 1986, they were toying with the idea of ending the J at Crescent Street.."That is very true. I lived in the neighborhood until Jan'86. There were petitions going around to have the El ripped down east of Crescent St. It almost happened. One reason was service was lousy,thus low ridership. Why put up with a noisy eyesore if the service sucks was a major beef. Another was no skip stop service then long waits for empty filthy trains thatseemed to take forever to get to Manhattan. The R-16s & 30s that supplied the service, were rolling scrap. Even the graffiti was filthy. The occasional R-42 that wandered out there seemed out of place. But cooler heads prevailed & the El stayed put. Maybe thats why at the time extending the J beyond Parsons/Archer plans were abandoned due to the possibility that nothing would connect to it. |
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| (1495784) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 13 20:14:21 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Mahvelous, simply mahvelous. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 13 23:33:06 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Nice!Where did J trains relay/switch over when 121st was the terminal? |
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| (1495812) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Dec 14 04:23:16 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by randyo on Thu Dec 13 18:09:39 2018. That is what has been written about in a paper - raze an el structure through a business neighborhood with no effective replacement, and the area will go downhill economically; those former blocks of healthy businesses will have no one to travel to them to shop there.An example given IIRC was the Pitkin Ave. business/shopping area stretch of the Fulton St. el from just east of Atlantic Ave. east to just past Crescent st. station. |
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| (1495813) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Dec 14 07:00:52 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by randyo on Thu Dec 13 18:09:39 2018. Yeah- they thought that making it harder for their customers to reach them would improve their business!! |
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| (1495814) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Dec 14 07:04:33 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 13 19:45:53 2018. Just shows how prophesies become self-fulfilling. The MTA provided service so lousy that a lot of people would rather not even have it. Make the service at least somewhat attractive, and it builds its own constituency.Just think- if they had done that demolition, that woulda made all the work pictured here a total waste. There was some talk of using the lower level of Archer to connect to a new line along the Montauk route- but we all know that would almost certainly not materialized. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Fri Dec 14 14:09:58 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by MainR3664 on Fri Dec 14 07:00:52 2018. Wasn't the head of the MTA at the time somehow affiliated with Macy's? I don't remember where I read it, but I remember seeing that he championed the demolition. Soon afterward, they closed the Jamaica store to focus on Valley Stream Green Acres. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 14 17:34:00 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Express Rider on Fri Dec 14 04:23:16 2018. However, the Pitkin Av portion of the Fulton St el was pretty much replaced by the IND subway which runs under the same street. The subway did not have as many stations as the el, but in all likelihood, if the el structure had been rebuilt to dual contract standards instead of replaced by the subway, some of the el stations would have been eliminated anyhow. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 14 17:36:14 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 13 19:45:53 2018. As I mentioned in another post, there were never any plans for the J Line to go past Parsons. Only the IND was planned to go farther out. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:08:34 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by randyo on Fri Dec 14 17:36:14 2018. Further out via teh Atlantic Branch. I remember seeing the end of the tunnl exposed up against NY AVenue (whatever it is called now. It wrapped around that old gas or water tank. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by VictorM on Fri Dec 14 18:09:47 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 13 23:33:06 2018. From about April 1985 until October 1987 eastbound trains leaving 111 St station would cross over to the center track at 114 St, and then, using a realignment between 114 and 115 streets, be moved on to the Manhattan bound track, then wrong rail into 121 St. Returning in the westbound direction the realignment would put them on the center track and then, using the crossover switch at 113 St, the trains would move back on to the Manhattan bound track at the east end of 111 St station. From October 1987 until Archer Av opened in December 1988, 2-track operation resumed between 111 and 121, with the trains using the new scissors crossover at east end of 121 St station to relay. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Dec 15 01:45:35 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Phenomenal pictures! |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Dec 15 03:04:18 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Excellent pictures! |
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| (1495972) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sat Dec 15 12:07:37 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 12 10:59:07 2018. Awesome! If only we had such photos of the original el construction :) |
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| (1496009) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 15 18:54:33 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by randyo on Fri Dec 14 17:36:14 2018. Yeah there was.Phase One was suppose to end at Merrick Blvd...with Phase Two ending along Jamaica ave and Holis adjacent to the LIRR Station. |
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| (1496025) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 15 21:18:05 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 15 18:54:33 2018. That would explain why J1 & J2 tracks of the J/Z extend beyond the Parsons/Archer station instead of ending at a brick wall & bumper block like whats at Main St. Flushing. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Dec 15 21:21:22 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 13 19:45:53 2018. I heard another reason why they wanted the el torn down east of Crescent Street is because fear of bad elements moving in. |
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| (1496031) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 15 21:50:56 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Dec 15 21:21:22 2018. Nah. Strictly real estate speculation. Woodhaven & Richmond Hill were full of White flight Whites that were looking to leave & figured they would cash in on rising property values that a torn down El would bring. |
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| (1496032) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Dec 15 22:33:33 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 15 18:54:33 2018. Exactly. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Dec 16 03:27:55 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 15 18:54:33 2018. Thank you.I don't recall phase one and phase two being on the 1929 map - I could be/or am wrong? - if so please let me know. If these were on later BOT projected plans map, could you tell me the years? Yes, I have seen those few maps 30's through latel 40s & 50s but don't remember details like phase one or phase two terminals. Thanks, |
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| (1496054) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Dec 16 03:32:45 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 15 21:18:05 2018. To digress a little - the lore and exaggeration about built but never finished tunnels - during the late 90s (around the time of the reconstruction of the eastern end of the Main St. terminal), I was at Main St. talking to one of the train operators about unused tunnels/stations, and she told me that she heard there were tunnels beyond the Main Street wall behind the bumping block "that extend all the way out to Nassau." heh! |
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| (1496144) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Dec 16 16:11:00 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Express Rider on Sun Dec 16 03:32:45 2018. That may not be beyond the scope of reality, since the lIRR ROW in that area is (was) 4 tks wide to allow for rapid transit service to operate on the lcl tks. |
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| (1496146) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el) |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Dec 16 16:15:11 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Archer Ave. Subway Connection Construction (Jamaica el), posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 15 18:54:33 2018. Where did you get your info? I was in the schedule office in the 1970s through the 1990s except for a short period 1983 - 1985 when i was a zone trainmaster and there were never any plans for the J line to go any farther than it does today. The IND portion was a different story. |
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