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| Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks (1352580) | |
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Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 09:46:14 2015 Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of WrecksA northbound #5 Lexington Av Express derailed south of Grand Central-42 Street Station about 10 PM. The first eight cars of the ten car train derailed. The consist was (n) 6239,7912-7771,7093,6633,7733,5822,6598,7071, 7260 (s). Car 6239 sideswiped the wall and car 7771 hit the northbound local rail. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon May 18 10:31:57 2015, in response to Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 09:46:14 2015. Well at least 6239 survived to be included in the museum fleet :)I didn't know that R-15s were still operating as lead motors in the spring of 1973. I was living in Illinois at that time, but I returned to NYC each summer. I remember seeing (and riding in at least once) consists with an R-12/14 or 15 as a lead motor, but by the summer of 1973, I no longer saw this, and didn't until I moved away from NYC in August 1976. Unless the correct date is 1978 instead of 1973? I know that the 12s/14s/152s were modified by that time to operate as lead motors. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon May 18 10:44:41 2015, in response to Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 09:46:14 2015. If I remember correctly 7260 was later involved in another wreck on the Seventh Ave. line. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Mysterious Friday 1986 on Mon May 18 14:01:37 2015, in response to Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 09:46:14 2015. If one goes to the Transit Museum today and sees car 6239, take a close look at the car above and to the right of the center door. One will find some dents abd dings on that part of the car. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 14:33:08 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon May 18 10:31:57 2015. BKLYN: I when back and double checked the original source which was rheJune 1973 issue of The bulletin. The date was May 18, 1973. I mis-posted the title as May 18, 1978. It could not have been 1978 because R-15 6239 was in the transit museum from July 1976 onward. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 18 15:50:36 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 14:33:08 2015. Thou art forgiven, my son! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 17:10:09 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon May 18 10:31:57 2015. The 12s 14s and 15s were always able to operate as lead motors. After radio antennas were installed, the 12s and 14s were not allowed to be used as C/R operating cars due to the potential for C/R injuries from the original antennas. Even though the R-15s were cab operation, they were lumped into the category of “Queens cars” and also banned from C/R positions. Even after smaller antennas like those on the R-10s were retrofitted to the 12s through 15s, IRT management kept the ban in place for all lines except the 3 Av El. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 19 00:41:36 2015, in response to Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 09:46:14 2015. What is interesting for me is when I began riding the subways a lot in 1980, the R-12's and R-14's were still in use on the 7th Avenue line, but I not once rode in an R-15 nor ever saw one. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 01:11:25 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 19 00:41:36 2015. You'd often see them on the 3, but I imagine by 1980 they were gone. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Stef on Tue May 19 01:15:55 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 01:11:25 2015. R15's would operate until the end of 1984.-Stef |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 01:35:50 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Stef on Tue May 19 01:15:55 2015. Ah! Last ones I encountered was back in the 70's. But by '76 I wasn't there every day either. Where did the last ones end up?I always got a kick out of the portholes, reminded me of R34's. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Stef on Tue May 19 02:32:36 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 01:35:50 2015. R14/15's should have finished their lives on the #3, although I do remember the white R15's on the 2/5 as well. I had forgotten what they were like when I got the surprise of Car 6235 (still in white) showing up at my front door late in 1994, it was headed off the property for scrap.It was what I like to call the great purge of old cars from 239th Street Yard. R12/14/15's which were utilized as RTO facilities were now banished, as well as the R17/21/22 work motors which were also tossed out. Anything dead in storage, left 239th St. Oh boy! Nostalgia is setting in for this old geezer (me!) --- Heh.  -Stef |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 19 02:42:54 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Stef on Tue May 19 02:32:36 2015. Heh. Yeah, once the redbirds faded away, it seems as though a lot of people have just lost interest now that stainless toasters on wheels have replaced them. Fortunately, we got to use the now classics that were to us too ordinary to care back then.Nice shot, bro! I was from the west side and never really saw a perspective on 239. That sure does it. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by chud1 on Tue May 19 05:06:41 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Stef on Tue May 19 02:32:36 2015. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars for da picture of da yard.chud1. :)..... |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Stef on Tue May 19 08:05:24 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by chud1 on Tue May 19 05:06:41 2015. I approve of this message.-Stef |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by chud1 on Tue May 19 09:32:58 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Stef on Tue May 19 08:05:24 2015. thank u Stef.chud1. :)..... |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue May 19 21:30:15 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by randyo on Mon May 18 17:10:09 2015. Someone had to be really stupid to lump the R-15s in with the R-12/14s. Didn't they know about the cab door controls? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue May 19 21:32:12 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 19 00:41:36 2015. I never rode on an R-15, either. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by murray1575 on Tue May 19 21:59:18 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue May 19 21:32:12 2015. There were only 100 made (5953-5999,6200-6252). The reason for the gap in car numbers was due to the Triplex cars on the BMT which used numbers starting at 6000. The small number of cars built made it more difficult to find one. The only SMEE cars which were less plentiful were the R-11/34 and the R-36ML. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed May 20 11:04:15 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by murray1575 on Tue May 19 21:59:18 2015. They operated in solid trains when on the 7, but once they were displaced to the mainlines by the World's Fair cars, they were distributed among various consists. I don't recall seeing (in person or pics) more than 2 in an 8, 9 or 10 car train. And they were never on the 6, AFAIK. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by renee gil on Wed May 20 11:18:14 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Stef on Tue May 19 01:15:55 2015. R14's and R15's both made their last runs on 12/10/1984. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Wed May 20 14:46:14 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Stef on Tue May 19 02:32:36 2015. By 1983/84, the R15s were only on the 1, along with the R14s. However, the 3 also operated the R14s. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 20 15:14:52 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue May 19 21:30:15 2015. I would think they should have but by the late 1960s/early 1970s, the NYCTA was starting to bring in educated fools titled “Transit Management Analysts” to make critical decisions about things that only seasoned operating personnel should have been allowed to make. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 20 15:20:15 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed May 20 11:04:15 2015. That’s something I did notice. For some reason, the R-12s, 14s and 15s were spread among all the lines with the exception of the 6. Two other car types which were conspicuously absent from the 6 were the R-21s and 22s although I did catch an extremely rare appearance of an R-22 on the 6 many years ago. That’s why the use of a solid train of R-22s in the original Taking of Pelham 123 seemed a bit odd. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 20 15:21:30 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by murray1575 on Tue May 19 21:59:18 2015. How about the R-33 singles. There were the same number of them as there were R-36 MLs. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed May 20 16:33:55 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Stef on Tue May 19 02:32:36 2015. When did they purge the old cars from 239th St? I remember seeing quite a few of them when we took a nostalgia ride there using WF R-33/36s. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Stef on Wed May 20 17:22:31 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by 3-9 on Wed May 20 16:33:55 2015. By purge, I was referring to the time when the remaining R12/14/15/17/21/22 cars (not used for the Money Train or as Riders) were removed... This was from 1990-94. This was also about the time the R127/R134's would be phased in, replacing the older R Types previously assigned to Garbage Service.I remember when the East 180th St and Corona Money Train Cars were assigned temporarily to refuse operations at 239th St! -Stef |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed May 20 18:27:16 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by randyo on Wed May 20 15:20:15 2015. And clean ones to boot. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed May 20 18:30:04 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1978 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by randyo on Wed May 20 15:14:52 2015. Ignorance is bliss. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu May 21 08:45:04 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by randyo on Wed May 20 15:20:15 2015. Yeah, the 6 in the 70s was loaded with married pairs. The only singles were about 150 R-17s (6750?-6899). They may have had some 6740s, although I did see 6742 on the 3 once.Re: Pelham, the story called for a single as the south motor, so it could be detached from the other 9 cars (I think the 6 may have been the only local in either division to run 10 cars in the mid-70s? (not counting the 7, which ran 11 cars on locals and expresses weekdays)). They also needed a car where the storm door window could be easily opened (handy for shooting at police, C/Rs etc.) And everyone knows it was about impossible to open an R-17 storm door window! (well, for me it was). So for that reason, I was willing to let that go :) Wonder why they used 22s from 240 St (or Lenox)? instead of from 239/Jerome/E 180. Maybe they had cars to spare. The only ones that I could identify were 7339 (hijacked car), 7439 (lead motor of the following train (Pelham 128 according to the novel), which Inspector Daniels used the radio to communicate with control, and 7343 which was seen when a train was in motion. I think I remember seeing an R-17 as a trailing motor in the background of a scene in Grand Central Tower (maybe that was an actual 6 train). Not long after I saw Pelham, I happened to see 7339 in a 3 consist. Still looked as pristine as it did in the movie. Oh, and it was not the lead car. :) |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by randyo on Thu May 21 15:28:45 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu May 21 08:45:04 2015. Some time in the 1970s, the #1 started running 10 car trains on an adjusted schedule that eliminated 137 St short turns during the rush hour. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri May 22 08:05:40 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by randyo on Thu May 21 15:28:45 2015. I remember when 1 (and 2) trains were seven cars long on weekends. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri May 22 08:42:05 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by randyo on Thu May 21 15:28:45 2015. Must have been after I left (August 1976). |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 22 10:39:10 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri May 22 08:42:05 2015. I can’t be sure now after so many years but I seem to recall it being done shortly before I left the Command Center in June 1976. The service was 10 cars during the rush and 5 cars during middays with midday short turns at 137 St. !0 car trains would alternately arrive at 137 St and V/C and cut to make 2 5 car trains. The headway S/O 137 St was 4 min instead of the former 5 min headway operated with 8 car trains. At the start of the PM rush 2 5 car trains would arrive at their respective terminals and add back up to10 car consists for the rush hour and all service would then operate to V/C. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 22 10:42:38 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri May 22 08:05:40 2015. That must have happened after I moved from Manhattan to Bkln, since while I was living uptown, the weekend consists on the 1 were 6 car trains and on the 2 it was 8 cars. Late on the TA experienced with 7 car midday consists on the 4 and 5 car midday consists on the 5 and 6 but that didn’t last too long since the cost of switching staff at the respective terminals cost more than the savings from running short trains. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by murray1575 on Fri May 22 18:00:45 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by randyo on Wed May 20 15:21:30 2015. Actually there were 40 R-33WF (single) cars (9306-9345) which is more than the 34 R-36ML cars (9524-9557). |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri May 22 23:51:24 2015, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - May 18, 1973 - The Book of Wrecks, posted by randyo on Fri May 22 10:39:10 2015. Hmm, I think I would have noticed a short 1 train when I did my "ride all the lines" railfan trip shortly before I left. But I don't remember if I rode the 1 during the rush hour or after (I started around 7:30 AM and was finished around 2 PM or so).I had written the itinerary up on a piece of paper, I know it made it out to L. A., but eventually it got lost (didn't help that I moved 4 times while in Southern California) I'm going to try to do another one of those the next time I am in NY, but unlike 76, I will ride each line only once (in 76, I rode at least one line twice). I will also include shuttles, which I didn't in 1976. And unlike 1976, where the entire trip was within fare control, I will take a lunch break at STL (arrive on a Q, leave on a D). Nathans of course! :) The trick is, in order to not duplicate any lines, is to start and end at a multi-line station. That was going to be Sutphin/Archer (start on the E, end on the J (or Z as it might be, BTW, I consider the J and Z as one line, so I will ride one or the other, not both (not like this is anything official)) I picked Sutphin, because I thought I might be staying with someone in Queens Village, so I would LIRR to/from Jamaica. Now, that probably won't be the case, but I might still LIRR from wherever. |
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