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| Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County (1341362) | |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 27 18:06:00 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 26 22:33:16 2015. LIRR Queens fares are ridiculous.The LIC City / Vernon Jackson "transfer" is a 3 block walk. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 27 18:22:16 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 13:32:36 2015. Where along the South Shore could they build another yard, even for 5 or 6 trains ?Not Patchogue. No room and NIMBY's. What about Sayville or Mastic-Shirley ? |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 19:26:27 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by ntrainride on Fri Feb 27 00:54:47 2015. " and The LIRR diesels aren't that bad."Yes they are. The DMs are some of the most unreliable diesels ever to run on the LIRR. Many in high levels of transit expertise refer to them as "lemons" Now, if the LIRR went with an MN style Genesis loco which has a much better MDBF rate,paired with shoreliner single level coaches that could fit into the ESA link which equates to more one seat rides into NYC, diesel trains MIGHT have been more attractive than they are now. All assuming a Genesis loco would fit into the LIRR sta at GCT that is. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:31:48 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 19:26:27 2015. The reliability difference has been nonexistent the last few years. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:44:17 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 19:26:27 2015. I take that back.There was a difference last year. 24839 vs 23632. LIRRs DM30s on average lasted 1200 miles longer than MNCR's P32DM between failures. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:44:17 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 19:26:27 2015. I take that back.There was a difference last year. 24839 vs 23632. LIRRs DM30s on average lasted 1200 miles longer than MNCR's P32DM between failures. |
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| (1341673) | |
Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 27 19:47:53 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:44:17 2015. Interesting. |
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| (1341674) | |
Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 27 19:47:59 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 19:26:27 2015. All assuming a Genesis loco would fit into the LIRR sta at GCT that isThe P32AC-DM is 14' 6" tall IIRC; EMUs and Shoreliners are about 12' 8" tall. The station would not be the problem, presumedly; the 63rd Street Tunnel might, and of course the third rail gaps at the new station's interlockings. |
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| (1341675) | |
Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 27 20:05:42 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 19:26:27 2015. Old information. While they were horrible, you are quoting 18 year old problems. |
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| (1341676) | |
Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 27 20:08:24 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 27 19:47:59 2015. You are correct. The problem Jim talks about in regard to ESA is the 1970s era 63rd St tunnel, not the 90s poor choice of locomotives |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 27 20:09:53 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 27 18:04:45 2015. ????????? What does that have to do with whether theywill continue train service? I live on the south shore, I am quite aware of summer traffic here. |
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| (1341678) | |
Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 27 20:16:26 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 27 18:03:16 2015. You are correct......port Jeff service as well as some south shore bled to the ronkonkoma line in the early 90s in the years after electrification.As for the New Village discussion he brought up in Patchogue, its irrelevant to the discussion and laughable They are having so much trouble renting some of the units tthat some of the rents were reduced by almost half as so many were vacant. This is causing many problems as this is a huge problem for some of the people that signed leases at the higher prices. Some had 6 month excape clauses however, who h some have been using because of it. I laugh whenever he brings up New Village in Patchogue, as its not putting even a slight dent in LIRR traffic |
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| (1341679) | |
Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 27 20:19:15 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 27 15:15:08 2015. It had the same traffic since the 50s yet it remained. There was a requirement to keep passenger service on the line because of literature i n the line's original charter. ADA was the saving grace for something they wanted to do since the 60s. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 27 20:20:30 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 13:32:36 2015. Shirley is not. Riverhead also is not, but that would probably be doom for east of there. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 27 20:24:28 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Feb 27 12:57:25 2015. Perhaps, but more so electrified |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 21:02:31 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 27 20:05:42 2015. "you are quoting 18 year old problems."Have they all been solved?? Do you think the LIRR would be exercising good judgement in ordering more of them, considering their track record & assuming that design is still available?? Do you think the LIRR thought it was a good Idea (after awhile) ordering them in the first place?? Did any other railroad in the country order the identical (LIRR) design w/o 3d rail shoes that is.?? Did Amtrak ever consider ordering LIRR style DMs?? Has any high level transit official publicly referred to Genesis locos as "lemons"?? Just wonderin. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Fri Feb 27 21:33:25 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 21:02:31 2015. Do you think the LIRR would be exercising good judgement in ordering more of them, considering their track record & assuming that design is still available??Who is suggesting the LIRR should be ordering more DM/DE 30s? Was that even an option? Do you think the LIRR thought it was a good Idea (after awhile) ordering them in the first place?? Irrelevant. Done is done. Did any other railroad in the country order the identical (LIRR) design w/o 3d rail shoes that is.?? Did Amtrak ever consider ordering LIRR style DMs?? Irrelevant. Still has nothing to do with now. Whether it was a mistake originally is up for debate for sure, but that isn't relevant in the present, and quoting 15 year old stats on them is also irrelevant to now. |
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| (1341719) | |
Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 07:28:28 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 27 20:16:26 2015. Do you remember the consists on the Port Jeff trains ?The 5:47 from HPA was 1 (packed) bar car and 12 117-seat coaches. Now do the seat math. 8 C-3 cars don't come close to that seated capacity. The 3:40 was 7 coaches. Now 4 C-3's. Changing the subject, are they asking for ridiculous rents in "New Village" ? |
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| (1341720) | |
Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 07:29:25 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 27 20:09:53 2015. Those diesel trains are well patronized because the highway situation is so horrible on summer weekends. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 07:30:39 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 19:26:27 2015. There is a perception the Gennies have a better MDBF than the DM's.They do not. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 07:31:21 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:44:17 2015. Does LIRR cheat on their MDBF metric ? |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:31:39 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 19:26:27 2015. The 63rd Street tunnmels can clear an MU car of 12'10". Forget about any type of locomotive. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:41:32 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 21:02:31 2015. < Did Amtrak ever consider ordering LIRR style DMs?? >Why would Amtrak want Super Steel junk where their Gennies at least have some spare parts commonality with the P40 and P42 ? They were also not under Paturkey's thumb like the LIRR was to buy them. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 28 09:43:01 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 19:26:27 2015. I work in Jamaica. A now-retired colleague always tried to catch a diesel train from Jamaica to Syosset.He found the C3s to be more comfortable than the M7s. He said they rode smoother. As far as MDBF. I don't remember him ever complaining about breakdowns. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Feb 28 09:44:13 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 07:28:28 2015. Yup....I remember it well....the port Jeff line used to be the LIRRs premiere commuter line till early 90s.... It did get cannibalized.As for Me Village, yes....they were/are asking ridiculous rents in New Village....like its Manhattan or something, and that doesn't include all the extras added on rent. Parking per car, separate garbage charge, etc, etc. They don't realize this is Patchogue, not the city |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:45:29 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 28 09:43:01 2015. < He found the C3s to be more comfortable than the M7s. He said they rode smoother. >Tell that to the people driving to Ronkonkoma from St James and Patchogue. They even did so to ride broken down M-1's until 10 years ago. 72K miles MDBF for a loco hauled coach is disgraceful. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Feb 28 09:45:35 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 07:30:39 2015. Yes, the issue was the engines themselves, not the fact of DE or DM |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Feb 28 09:46:38 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:31:39 2015. So it's the tunnel, not the fact that they bough DM30s |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:49:37 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Feb 28 09:44:13 2015. They do the same at a complex in Raritan, and it is right next to a road that floods with every hurricane or heavy nor'easter. A couple of years ago, it was $2,200/month for 2 bedroom, more for a garage spot, more for a dog. I don't know what their vacancy rate is, but Raritan train loadings are flat year over year.They think it is Hoboken. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 28 10:06:17 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:45:29 2015. In terms of MDBF what does "failure" mean? Does it mean a breakdown on the road or a cancelled train or does it just mean that the car had to go to the shops before it was scheduled for maintenance? |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Feb 28 10:43:55 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:49:37 2015. Exactly! And new Village is more than $2000. Then parking, garbage, and all the other extras. It doesn't fit with market rent of the area, that's why they are been having trouble |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 13:00:19 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 28 10:06:17 2015. That I do not know. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 28 13:11:51 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 28 10:06:17 2015. An honest measurement would definitely be the latter. Even going to the shop for routine maintenance and discovering a failure there should count. |
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| (1341754) | |
Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 28 14:20:59 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Feb 28 10:43:55 2015. And new Village is more than $2000. Then parking, garbage, and all the other extras.Doesn't $2K a month get you a two or three bedroom apartment with those amenities included in a decent looking complex out there? The pricing that this complex is looking for just isn't sustainable, and aiming for luxury prices in some far flung suburban outpost doesn't make much sense, especially when you can pay nearly the same amount and be in Nassau, or even Queens. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Feb 28 15:12:49 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 19:26:27 2015. Jeez, can't anyone build a decent diesel/third rail dual mode locomotive the LIRR could use to run service directly from these lines without spending billions on third rail?There HAS to be a way around the gapping issue that currently requires the use of 2 locomotives. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 15:16:12 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 27 20:19:15 2015. Richmond Hill had/has high level platforms. All it needed was an elevator. LIC is now ADA. But Richmond Hill had 0 to 1 customer per day. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 28 15:16:24 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Feb 28 15:12:49 2015. The old way around the gapping issue in NYP was to use overhead third rail, which of course got decommissioned when the overhead wire was put in. Amtrak runs all of its single-diesel Genesis IIs with the locomotive on the front. In GCT, when Metro-North push trains get stuck in a gap, they turn the prime mover on. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Feb 28 15:23:19 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 28 15:16:24 2015. Then perhaps the solution is to ditch the third rail locos altogether, hang some wire to Woodside and use NJT's engines, which seem to be performing acceptably well. IIRC, The DM30's only use the third rail in the East River tunnels anyway. |
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| (1341766) | |
Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 15:25:33 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Feb 28 15:23:19 2015. Can't do that. NJT engines stop for 2 minutes to change over such as in Newark Penn or Broad. LIRR will not tolerate that in Woodside or at all on an express train. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Feb 28 15:31:04 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Feb 28 15:12:49 2015. DEMU with third rail capability. |
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| (1341773) | |
Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 28 16:25:53 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 15:25:33 2015. That's a self-imposed stop; those locomotives were designed to change modes on the fly. Kind of like the self-imposed brake inspections on the MLVs.Also, anecdotally, the ALP-45DPs are still quite thirsty in diesel mode. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 28 16:26:37 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Feb 28 15:31:04 2015. They should have changed the turbine M1s to DEMU. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 28 16:31:13 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 15:16:12 2015. Precisely. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 17:06:51 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 28 14:20:59 2015. Younger folks who can't do down-payments will get expensive apartments, but why not just do that in Queens or Brooklyn, rather than pay $$$ more per month for shitty train service from Patchogue. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Feb 28 17:07:14 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 28 16:26:37 2015. I agree. It had steps for low platforms too. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 28 18:36:22 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:31:39 2015. OK, thanks for the info. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 28 18:49:40 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:45:29 2015. " He found the C3s to be more comfortable than the M7s. He said they rode smoother. "I agree. The M-7s are clunky rattle traps that ride rough especially over the trucks. MN is discovering premature bushing wear on M-7 trucks that was not a problem on their M-3a s General consensis over there is that a better ride quality to be had on the M-3a v/s M-7a. Also, the M-7 is little top heavy inasmuch as many components are located in the car body level as opposed to the underbelly. This also affects ride quality. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 18:51:18 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 28 18:36:22 2015. I think they will get 1 or 2 of some sort of Genset, low slung loco for rescues. But you can't run a revenue service with them. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 18:52:51 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 28 18:49:40 2015. M-7 is also just too damned heavy.The M-1 was just 48 tons, although they rode like shit in a different way. |
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Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 28 18:57:39 2015, in response to Re: Officials push to electrify LIRR train lines in Suffolk County, posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Feb 28 09:46:38 2015. Yup.Not that any other type of dual-mode loco would help matters. |
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