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The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 28 12:38:50 2013

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Forty years ago on April 28-29, 1973, passenger service on the Bronx portion of the IRT Third Avenue El, from 149th Street to Gun Hill Road, came to an end on that weekend back then. The line still had about 5,300 passengers a day towards the end. It would be replaced, of all things, with the new BX55 limited bus service that operated much of the el's route, plus an alternate branch going out to 161st Street-River Avenue.

So, the last train consisted of R-12's s/#5778-5760-5893-5802/n leaving Gun Hill Road at 11:42pm [April 28] going southbound towards 149th Street. Then, the train left at 12:06am [April 29] going northbound towards Gun Hill Road, and finally arriving at 12:23am. Another train of R-12's s/#5782-5791-5768-5754 followed running "lite" along the line.

A post-abandonment fan trip run by the E.R.A. soon followed during the day of April 29, with a train of Lo-V's s/#5443-4902-5466-5292-5290/s making two round trips on the Third Avenue El. The second and final round trip, as recorded, left Gun Hill Road at 4:04pm going southbound towards 149th Street. The train left 149th Street at 4:50pm going northbound towards Gun Hill Road, with its final arrival there at 5:46pm.

There was most likely a longer running time on that fan trip due to a lot of "photo stops" along the route. Afterward, work trains would be seen along the Third Avenue El in order to remove any signals, track or other hardware scheduling to end on July 31, 1973. Any thoughts of reviving the line was shelved permanently when the Claremont Parkway station was on fire shortly afterward.

As of today, only the lower level of the Gun Hill Road station remains of the line, but its platforms had been removed during a station renovations some years ago, plus its trackways connecting with the IRT White Plains Road line was sliced off in alternate sections.

R-12 #5760, used on the last regular passenger run on the El, has been part of the New York Transit Museum's collection as a restored car since 1976, while a second one #5782 is in storage at the 207th Street Yard in upper Manhattan. Of course, the Lo-V's used on the farewell fan trip are still around, with Lo-V trailer car #4902 seen now at the Transit Museum, and the other Lo-V's still exist. Cars #5290, #5292 and #5443 are still on NYCTA property, while #5466 is at the Shore Line Trolley Museum in East Haven, Connecticut.

[Source: New York Division ERA "The Bulletin", April 1973.]

-William A. Padron
["Shuttle"]


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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by chud1 on Sun Apr 28 12:41:26 2013, in response to The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 28 12:38:50 2013.

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that was truely a sad day in da bronx and da third ave el.
chud1

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Apr 28 13:33:53 2013, in response to The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 28 12:38:50 2013.

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It was a sad day indeed. I took my very first rapid transit ride on the 3rd Avenue El when it still ran down to Manhattan. I had to be there for the end and I did ride the ERA fantrip on that Sunday. As a footnote to the above I might add that when the excursion train left from Grand Central 5483 was part of the consist as well. She experienced some mechanical problems enroute and had to be set out at the Westchester Square Yard. We made two round trips on the El. On the last trip the whistle was blowing almost continuously and local residents waved to use from their windows. An old friend was passing from the scene and this was his wake.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 28 14:47:11 2013, in response to The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 28 12:38:50 2013.

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I guess that we all forgot the passing of the Fulton street el on April 27th, 1956!

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by 5119 on Sun Apr 28 15:56:16 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Apr 28 13:33:53 2013.

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I was on that trip. Most poignant was the Lo-V leaving each station slowly, blowing its whistle. Sad feeling and the end of an era.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Apr 28 18:14:00 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 28 14:47:11 2013.

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Elkeeper: Here's an excerpt from "The Book of Last Runs."

April 27, 1956 This is the last day of operation for the portion of the BMT Fulton Street El between the Rockaway Avenue Terminal in Brooklyn and the 80 Street-Hudson Street Station in Queens. The last #13 Fulton Street Local left Rockaway Avenue at 6:55 PM and arrived at Lefferts Boulevard at 7:17 PM. It left Lefferts Boulevard at 7:33 PM and arrived at Rockaway Avenue at 7:55 PM and consisted of C-Types 1504 and 1511. The last # 13 - 14 Street-Fulton Street Express consisted of Multis 7011 and 7009 and arrived at Lefferts Boulevard at 7:01 PM.
ERA Headlights June 1956

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Bob Andersen on Sun Apr 28 18:26:22 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Apr 28 18:14:00 2013.

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Larry, you should publish that Book of Last Runs!

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 28 18:52:00 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Apr 28 18:14:00 2013.

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Soon after, the R-10s took over that portion and would maintain their grip until 1977. Of course, the R-1/9s also ventured out there as well until they left the scene.:)

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 28 19:07:14 2013, in response to The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 28 12:38:50 2013.

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I was on the fantrip. We went to various other places as well.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Sun Apr 28 19:35:35 2013, in response to The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 28 12:38:50 2013.

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I was the C/R on that last trip with the Low-V cars. My M/M was Martin Begley. He operated these cars in regular service and I believe he retired soon after the trip. I, on the other hand, was a brand new C/R fresh out of school car.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by blue8irt on Sun Apr 28 20:21:03 2013, in response to The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 28 12:38:50 2013.

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I was born at 770 Hegney Place whish is one block east of Third Avenue between 157th and 156tgh. I lived there over 3 years and the last thing I recall as we left was the screeching brakes as a train pulled in to the station.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by zac on Sun Apr 28 21:38:10 2013, in response to The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 28 12:38:50 2013.

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There are 2 lines that I always wish I had taken, the 3rd Ave El and the Myrtle. I remember watching a 3rd Ave train leaving Gun Hill Road while I was on a 2 train, and I did ride the Q cars on Myrtle, but only on the upper portion.

Oh well, at least I rode a Jamaica train to 168th, but that may be the only dismantled part of the system I've been on.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Apr 28 22:42:09 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by zac on Sun Apr 28 21:38:10 2013.

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Same here. I was too young to go railfanning solo when the Myrtle closed (I was 10). I probably could've ridden the 3rd Av el, but I was living in Illinois 40 years ago this time, only came to NYC summers and at Christmas time. Don't think I did any solo railfanning in the summer of 1972, and by the next summer, it was too late :(

At least I did the Culver Shuttle shortly before it closed :)

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 29 03:17:03 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Apr 28 18:14:00 2013.

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By a strange twist of fate I happen to have the master controller and brake valve from 7011 but unfortunately when I got it from the scrapper, I forgot to note which end of the unit I took it from.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by zac on Mon Apr 29 06:14:27 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Apr 28 22:42:09 2013.

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Right, the Culver shuttle. I did ride that one as it wasn't far from where I lived. IIRC it was a pair of R27s.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 29 07:19:13 2013, in response to The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 28 12:38:50 2013.

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Thank you, sir!- for reminding us of this sad anniversary. Some yesrs ago, I bought a VHS tape of NYC elevated, which (among other things) showed footage of this line near the end- the cars already had graffiti. It looked reasonably well patronized to me, and I doubt tearing it down did anything to help The Bronx.

In a better political climate, it would have been rehabbed, and the R39 cars ordered. In fact, they'd have come up for replacement themselves by now.

Oh well.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 29 07:20:34 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Apr 28 13:33:53 2013.

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Do you recall if there was any meaningful opposition, or any opposition at in the community, towards eliminating this line?

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 29 07:22:42 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Apr 28 18:14:00 2013.

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Thanks. I guess this closure gets less attention because the service was fully replaced- with more modern facilities.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 29 07:30:36 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 29 07:20:34 2013.

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I was there at the time, there was some, but the Bronx fatalism of the time wasn't up to the fight. :(

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Apr 29 09:51:49 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by zac on Mon Apr 29 06:14:27 2013.

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2 pairs, actually. (4-car train)

When I rode (a Saturday afternoon), I rode the B to 9th Av and went downstairs to get the CS. I may have just missed one, because it seemed like forever for it to arrive. Back then, I knew next to nothing about the history of the subway in general and the Culver in particular, so I figured it was like the Franklin shuttle, with trains running in both directions with a single track terminal at each end. Then I'm riding (at the RFW of course), and I see that the northbound track is missing. Of course now it makes sense. :)

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 29 13:45:48 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 29 07:20:34 2013.

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Do you recall if there was any meaningful opposition, or any opposition at in the community, towards eliminating this line?

There was some opposition but it was poorly organized and the prevailing wisdom? at the time was still to raze the els. The Bx-55 bus was a poor substitute. Third Avenue at 149 Street was already crowded with bus routes and the branch to 161 Street and River Avenue was a joke.

There was some who though that the removal of the el would lead to a renaissance in The Bronx. The reverse is exactly what happened.

Larry, RedbirdR33


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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Q4 on Mon Apr 29 13:49:36 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Bob Andersen on Sun Apr 28 18:26:22 2013.

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"Larry, you should publish that Book of Last Runs!

Yes he should as I was thinking that I need to find out where I can get a hold of a copy of this book.


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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Q4 on Mon Apr 29 13:54:17 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 29 07:19:13 2013.

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Were the R-39's supposed to be for Myrtle Avenue or 3rd Ave?

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by trains61 on Mon Apr 29 14:00:42 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Q4 on Mon Apr 29 13:54:17 2013.

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Don`t know about 3rd Ave. But they were definitely were going to be for Myrtle Ave. (R-39`s)

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by William A. Padron on Mon Apr 29 14:06:13 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 29 13:45:48 2013.

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The first news I heard about the El's demise was from the family of a schoolmate I was visiting at their home living nearby the 166th Street station. They told me that, and I was surprised to hear about it.

My own visual (i.e. television) memories had to come while watching it on WCBS-TV News by its last day in service. I did not buy the story from then MTA chairman William Ronan, as he told the reporter, that it outlived its usefulness! Then, there was this irate passenger commenting that they had no right to close the el, and this while riding inside a really packed R-12 car. Remember, it was 5,300 to 5,800 passengers a day the line was getting.

WCBS-TV's news report of the el on that last day started with an R-12 train leaving the Gun Hill Road station and rounding the curve going southbound onto Webster Avenue. It ended when a northbound train enters Gun Hill Road, and the M/M "dumps" it there, with the reporter saying, "It's time is now up!"

-William A. Padron
["Gun Hill Road"]

P.S. To Larry,RedbirdR33 = As a request, can you repost from your Book of First Runs, the day when the IND took over the Fulton Street El on that April 29, 1956 with those R-10's running and the car numbers? Thanks in advance for your cooperation and understanding.

-WAP
["Fulton-Lefferts Blvd."]


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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 29 14:39:11 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Q4 on Mon Apr 29 13:54:17 2013.

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Yes ... both.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Apr 29 15:22:04 2013, in response to The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 28 12:38:50 2013.

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I have a picture in one of my subway books of the dismantling of the steelwork of the Third Avenue El above the Cross Bronx Expressway. I thought that the photo was very indicative of Robert Moses' triumph over mass transit.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Q4 on Mon Apr 29 17:20:51 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 29 14:39:11 2013.

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Thanks.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 29 18:00:09 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Apr 29 14:06:13 2013.

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.S. To Larry,RedbirdR33 = As a request, can you repost from your Book of First Runs, the day when the IND took over the Fulton Street El on that April 29, 1956 with those R-10's running and the car numbers? Thanks in advance for your cooperation and understanding.

William: Always glad to help.

April 29, 1956 This is the first day of operation of IND Route A 8th Avenue Express trains over the former BMT Fulton Street El in Queens between 80 Street-Hudson Street Station and Lefferts Boulevard Terminal. The first train was a special which ran non-stop from Grant Avenue to Lefferts Boulevard. It carried passengers and various dignitaries. The consist was ten R-10s, 3153,1811,3288,3316,1851,1817,3108,3185,3342,3343.
The first train in regular service left Euclid Avenue at 12:21 PM and had a four car consist of R-10s; 3004,1820,1808,3049.
ERA Headlights June 1956

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by blue8irt on Mon Apr 29 18:29:31 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by zac on Sun Apr 28 21:38:10 2013.

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Believe it or not, the Myrtle Avenue El was the last El I rode regularly before leaving NYC for good. We moved to Pa. in January of 1968. We lived on Pratt's campus and the Myrtle was our way around.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by 5119 on Mon Apr 29 19:11:54 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 29 07:20:34 2013.

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Some people complained that a bus wouldn't carry as many passengers and also, the closest line was now the the IND Concourse Line, which was too far to walk from Webster Avenue.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 29 19:28:08 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 29 13:45:48 2013.

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The Bronx burned..just like Bushwick did.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by murray1575 on Mon Apr 29 21:06:24 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by zac on Sun Apr 28 21:38:10 2013.

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I rode on both in the 1960's when I was in high school (the 3rd Ave. line operated with Steinway Lo-V cars by then) but I wish I had been around to ride the 3rd Ave. line when it operated in Manhattan and the Myrtle Ave. line when it went to Park Row over the Brooklyn Bridge.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Apr 29 21:25:00 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 29 13:45:48 2013.

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Way back when, I went to St Helena HS in the Bronx. When I was a freshman in 1964, it was strongly suggested that we all attend a High School Basketball game when we played Fordham HS on the college campus.
Since at that time I lived in Queens, at games end, the thought of waiting for a bus to connect with the Q44 to take me over the Whitestone to hook up with the #7 at Main St seemed like a bad idea (it was freezing out). So at the time, being an entry level subway buff, I hop on a 3d ave el train at Fordham Road to go to 149 to hook up with the 6 to GCT & then to the 7 to get home.
So on the platform, It seems that im in a time warp. Wooden platforms, several burnt out bulbs, mezzanine level reeking the scent of aged urine & in comes a set ov Lo-V/Steinway consist to get me to 149.

The first thing that comes to my young mind is why isin't there any modernization being done here similar to what I saw happing on the Flushing line? Just look around & the rider never got the hint of either upgrading maintenence or any sign of long term existance plans for the line.
Other elevated lines were getting concrete platforms (except Myrtle) but not the 3d ave line. The writing was on the wall, & it was'nt graffiti.
Local riders back in 1964 should have screamed big time to upgrade the line to match the upgrading that was happening on Jerome Ave or WPR road but as far as I know, that never happened.
My reference point is as a regular rider of the Flushing line, they get new cars, concrete platforms & platform modernization as in steel platform walls replacing the old dirty windows with the drab olive paint. What does the 3d ave line get?? New cars? Yeah, R-12s . They must have seemed new there & then like they did on the Flushing line 20 something years earlier.
Bottom line, based on what was not happening, the City was planning the demise of the 3d ave el long before the first box girder pillar was cut.

Its the oldest trick in the book, institute minimal service & make the enviornment least attractive as possible & there goes the clientele. Then the TA says, AHA! ridership down, time to tear the line down.
The rest is history.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 30 07:25:41 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 29 13:45:48 2013.

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They were probably following the example of 3rd Ave in Manhattan, where demolishing the el was supposedly an improvement. However, the neighborhood has to be desirable in the first place.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 30 12:42:49 2013, in response to The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 28 12:38:50 2013.

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The south Bronx was dying at the time, and the line was woefully underused.

However, with the revival of the neighborhood, if it had not been abandoned, it would be very well patronized today.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 30 13:34:35 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 30 12:42:49 2013.

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Hell, if it had survived and been modernized, these days there may even have been talk of extending it.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 30 13:59:23 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 30 12:42:49 2013.

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It was pretty decently used in Norwood for getting up to E233 and down to Fordham and Tremont. Particularly on weekends, it was SRO at times. I used it often myself from 149 to 204.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Apr 30 14:14:05 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 29 13:45:48 2013.

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Yep- getting rid of the transit service made things even worse. Just like in downtown Jamaica.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Apr 30 14:16:27 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 28 14:47:11 2013.

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I guess that we all forgot the passing of the Fulton street el on April 27th, 1956!

Elkeeper: I wonder how many of us on this board actually rode the Fulton Street El between East New York and Hudson Street. (The section that was abandoned in 1956) . That section was abandoned seventeen years before the 3 Avenue El. Many of us here have very good memories of the 3rd Avenue El. Throughout the 60's it was the one place where you could sill ride the First Generation IRT cars and it was the last of the five Manhattan Railway Els. I was fortunate to ride the el all the way to Chatham Square when I was very young and still have soon memories of it . The Bronx section lasted until I was 23 so I rode it quite often. Anyone who was old enough to remember riding the Fulton Street El would now be pushing 80.

When we lost the el in The Bronx we lost the last of the IRT elevateds. The only surviving elevated ROW is paradoxically is the now closed 162 Street Tunnel.

The Brooklyn guys were much more fortunate. Except for the Fifth Avenue El which is completely gone portions of most of the other elevated lines remain to this day.

The Lexington Avenue El between Gates Avenue and Cypress Hills.
The Myrtle Avenue El north of Broadway.
The Broadway - Brooklyn El between Marcy Avenue and Gates Avenue.
And the Fulton Street El between Hudson Street and Leffert Boulevard.

Its true that these lines have changed somewhat from when they were built but they still are running.

I guess its just the passage of time.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Apr 30 14:20:07 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Q4 on Mon Apr 29 13:54:17 2013.

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Both, I believe.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Apr 30 14:22:18 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 30 13:59:23 2013.

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It was pretty decently used in Norwood for getting up to E233 and down to Fordham and Tremont. Particularly on weekends, it was SRO at times. I used it often myself from 149 to 204.

There was still a good deal of interchange at 149 Street until the end.
There was very little northbound local passenger traffic originating at the stations from 156 Street to 183 Street due to the fact that most of those station had unmanned entrances and very often the "Iron Mary" turnstiles didn't work and the station house was a hangout for low-lifes. Many people would take the el southbound in the to connect to the subway but on the northbound trip they used the buses.

Larry, RedbirdR33


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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 30 14:36:37 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Apr 30 14:22:18 2013.

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It's a shame that Ronan went so far out of his way to kill off the remains. While the TA still had it, those N/B stations were maintained as best as they could. Once 1967 came though, it all went to hell fast. :(

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by davesgcr on Tue Apr 30 14:50:25 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by murray1575 on Mon Apr 29 21:06:24 2013.

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So how far "down" did the neighbourhood go after the end of the route - or was it in bad decline as service was withdrawn ?

And today - has it come back up , like many other Bronx areas in terms of rehabilitation etc ?

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 30 20:49:18 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Apr 30 14:16:27 2013.

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I remember riding the Fulton St el between Greenwood Av (111 St) and Rockaway Av in the 1940's, and transferring to the A train at that point. I remember the S curve on Euclid Av which mimiced the S curve on Crescent St on the Jamaica BMT. I also remember riding the Lexington Av el between Eastern Parkway and downtown Brooklyn in 1947. It had only 2 cars. I also remember riding the 3rd Av el as far south as Fulton St in 1946.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by cortelyounext on Tue Apr 30 20:51:54 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 30 20:49:18 2013.

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Now that right there is a truly outstanding post.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 30 21:07:48 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by cortelyounext on Tue Apr 30 20:51:54 2013.

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Thanks!

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by 5119 on Tue Apr 30 21:13:42 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 30 12:42:49 2013.

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Has the neighborhood been revived? I left the Bronx for Ohio in December of 1978. At that time, the area was had declined significantly.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by 5119 on Tue Apr 30 21:18:45 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Apr 30 14:22:18 2013.

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I remember many passengers getting off at 169th Street, where a large public housing project was located.

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Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 1 07:04:09 2013, in response to Re: The Third Avenue El: Finale - April 28-29, 1973, posted by cortelyounext on Tue Apr 30 20:51:54 2013.

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For sure!!

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