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| Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) (1027802) | |
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| (1029436) | |
Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jan 24 22:33:30 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jan 24 22:21:04 2011. The architectural style is completely inconsistent with anything after the 1940s. |
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| (1029437) | |
Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jan 24 22:33:30 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jan 24 22:21:04 2011. The architectural style is completely inconsistent with anything after the 1940s. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by arnine on Mon Jan 24 22:34:18 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by zac on Mon Jan 24 22:31:43 2011. Maybe we will see, I wish there was a way 2 get in there |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jan 24 22:39:53 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by arnine on Mon Jan 24 22:34:18 2011. Tell some homeless people there's a place back there. They'll find a way in. :D |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by arnine on Mon Jan 24 22:40:57 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jan 24 22:39:53 2011. Hmmm it's an idea :) |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jan 24 22:47:08 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by arnine on Mon Jan 24 22:40:57 2011. Or some bridezillas that Filene's Basement is having the wedding gown sale in there. |
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| (1029446) | |
Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jan 24 22:51:36 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 24 20:14:37 2011. A pile of dirt *is* something.
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jan 24 22:53:56 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 24 22:25:30 2011. The building may have a 1971 addition, which would have its own cornerstone.
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| (1029448) | |
Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by arnine on Mon Jan 24 22:56:41 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jan 24 22:47:08 2011. There ya go :) That's our way in :) |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by monorail on Tue Jan 25 02:08:43 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jan 24 21:44:49 2011. who has the 'perfect ass'? |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jan 25 02:10:28 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by monorail on Tue Jan 25 02:08:43 2011. Heh. Dunno ... not my style. But we know who IS an ass and loves to fill his site with pictures of them. :) |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Jan 25 07:23:01 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jan 24 22:21:04 2011. Thanks. So that disproves that hypothesis. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 25 07:30:24 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Jan 25 07:23:01 2011. DOH! |
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| (1029549) | |
Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by GIS Man on Tue Jan 25 10:50:56 2011, in response to 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Teddmann on Mon Jan 24 11:54:28 2011. "S RD" is actually Old South Rd, a remnant of a road which included portions of Pitkin Av, Van Wicklen Rd, Albert Rd, North Conduit Av, another block of Old SOuth Rd off North Conduit Av between 118th St and Lefferts Blvd, and several more blocks between 124th St and 130th St.Bob |
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Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jan 25 11:47:24 2011, in response to Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Jan 23 17:10:44 2011. Yes, I have to slightly correct myself, because I rechecked some of the proposed track diagrams as found in Jeff Erlitz' articles in some of the NYDERA's "Bulletin" newsletter...Cross Bay Boulevard was going be a four track express/track station, and whose track and platform layout was to have been similar to 168th Street on the Washington Heights branch. The local tracks, now in the center, would have continued eastward for relaying trains or storage layups (just like at 174th Street Yard). Then, as you had stated, the main express tracks would had to continue for one more stop to around 105th or 106th Street and Rockaway Boulevard, nearby Aqueduct Race Track. There were to be track provisions after leaving Cross Bay Boulevard to go into the LIRR's Rockaway Line, with two tracks meeting up with the route just north of what is now the Aqueduct-North Conduit Avenue station. And you are right, that plans was to have the Fulton Street Line all the way out there to the terminal station in Eastern Queens, but had been cut back. Let's not forget though that a in-between station at 84th Street and Pitkin Avenue was also planned to be built, between those for at 76th Street and Cross Bay Boulevard. -William A. Padron ["A7/A8"] |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 11:53:19 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 24 20:21:47 2011. At some point the boundary was shifted to follow the street grid, which in general is not based on geography. The same thing happens in Ridgewood. IINM if you put a straightedge on a map and align it with the B-Q border north of Flushing Avenue, it will align with the border in the Cemetery of the Evergreens (before it turns east).This was done IINM after 1898. Interestingly, the border between Queens and Nassau in Floral Park/Bellerose runs on a diagonal, streets change names/numbers and address schemes shift mid-block, houses have the border running through them. They presumably have to pay property taxes to both New York City and Nassau County/Town of North Hempstead. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 11:55:29 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 24 20:08:24 2011. The only thing that was likely there was utility relocation work. The same thing happened on Second Avenue in the East Village in the 70s. No structure was built, and the site was backfilled. This explains the hasty wall at the end. It was decided that in the event of future extension it wouldn't make sense to build something more final, but it also wouldn't make sense to waste money finishing work that wouldn't be used for years if at all. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 11:57:20 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 24 14:56:48 2011. Even that's not necessary. If the documents are in some MTA vault and someone's seen them, it's not like they wouldn't allow copies to be made, it's not like the MTA has anything significant to hide here. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 11:58:37 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 24 13:45:38 2011. Good post. |
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| (1029567) | |
Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 12:00:48 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by tunnelrat on Mon Jan 24 13:50:56 2011. Blueprints mean nothing. Blueprints are just a drawing of plans to build something, it doesn't mean that what was depicted was actually built. Blueprints are ALWAYS* made in advance and therefore will always at least at some point depict something that doesn't exist.*Blueprints can also be made of existing structures if the originals are unavailable or lost, but that is unlikely here. Did the TA ever have an archive fire? |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 12:01:44 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jan 24 14:47:59 2011. There's a huge difference between natural phenomena which would exist whether or not man observed them, versus something that was obviously built by man. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 12:03:03 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jan 24 17:22:39 2011. There is something there: earth and possibility utility pipes and conduits. |
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Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jan 25 12:06:07 2011, in response to Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street, posted by Randyo on Sun Jan 23 16:17:23 2011. The street name below at Lefferts Boulevard most likely changed from as an "avenue" around the same time when the streets' names were redone starting circa 1915. Yet, up until the IND extension was opened via the Liberty Avenue elevated, all the maps issued and the actual station name remained as "Lefferts Avenue".When the 1958 NYCTA schematic map was issued, the station was listed on the "A" line as "119 St-Lefferts". Yes, I recall the Grant Avenue station as early as 1964-5 of having a platform white directional sign a painted "BLVD" in black letters over what would have been "AVE" for the Lefferts service. As to when I finally was starting to ride the R-10's on the "A" out to Lefferts Boulevard in the early 1970's, all the platform signs had the correct station name signs in white lettering on a blue background, with no trace of any paint that may have been applied to them if they were indeed covering up the "AVE." Of course, the R-10's roll signs, at my earliest recall from the 1960's, had "Fulton-Lefferts Blvd." destination readings (regularly used with worn dirt), while the R-11's had the "Lefferts Avenue" ones. There is currently even a vintage NYCTA official notice posted in one of the R-1/9 museum cars, as seen during the Holiday Train Runs, that announced the 1956 changeover from BMT to IND Division operation via the "A" line to Lefferts, but it states it was going to "Avenue" not "Boulevard". And, an historic aside, the 1939 WPA New York Guide has the street name as "Boulevard", while the el station was "Avenue". -William A. Padron ["K1/K2"] |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 12:09:02 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Teddmann on Mon Jan 24 15:52:06 2011. I disagree. The evidence points to the fact that there is NOTHING there. While there is certainly the possibility that there is something there, the simplest explanation is that there's nothing there. All other abandoned sites in the subway are well documented, there is evidence of their construction, even if they were never used (like Nevins St LL). In order to believe that there is something beyond that wall, one would have to believe that whatever is there is so unbelievably strange that it would have been covered up so that no evidence of it exists. That is just about impossible.There are two possibilities here: Either the station exists or it doesn't. Accepting that it doesn't exist requires fewer bizarre assumptions. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 12:15:30 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by zac on Mon Jan 24 22:31:43 2011. My guess is there is another 5-10 feet of tunnel at most.That is the most rational explanation. |
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| (1029575) | |
Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 12:16:01 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by arnine on Mon Jan 24 20:27:54 2011. To prevent it from falling into the tunnel. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by GIS Man on Tue Jan 25 12:24:08 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 24 14:01:13 2011. I-78 was supposed to have been built on that median, connecting with the Nassau Expwy which comes out of N & S Conduit Av at about 88th St. Every "paper street" map I have seen, however, shows the wide median disappearing at the Brooklyn-Queens line, so the exact route from there to the corridor between Broadway and Bushwick Avs to the Williamsburg Bridge remains uncertain.Bob |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by GIS Man on Tue Jan 25 12:27:42 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Edwards! on Mon Jan 24 16:16:16 2011. The Cross Brooklyn Expwy, I believe, was to use the Bay Ridge LIRR ROW from the Brooklyn Army Terminal area east to about where the ROW turns north, then across the street pattern SE, and then along the south side of Flatlands Av. There used to be a depression running along the south side of Flatlands Av. around Starrett City. Where it went after reaching Fountain Av I don't know, although it must be of some significance that the 156th Av. underpass at the Belt Pkwy. is double width, with one side unused.Bob |
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Re: Interesting geo-oddity Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by GIS Man on Tue Jan 25 12:29:53 2011, in response to Re: Interesting geo-oddity Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 24 18:09:51 2011. There are two places where the Queens numbered streets extend into Nassau County: Bellerose and 106th and 109th Avs near Elmont.Bob |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by arnine on Tue Jan 25 12:34:40 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 12:16:01 2011. Yes, I c that now thanks :) |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by GIS Man on Tue Jan 25 12:43:23 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 24 20:07:11 2011. Yes, according to the map referenced above, it clearly connected to the east end of New Lots Av, which went around a few curves going east past Fountain Av, where the housing project is now.Bob |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by GIS Man on Tue Jan 25 12:45:18 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 11:53:19 2011. And God help them if they don't have bathrooms in both counties...LOL Bob |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by GIS Man on Tue Jan 25 12:52:26 2011, in response to 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Teddmann on Mon Jan 24 11:54:28 2011. We know that it was intended to extend the line much further east, but does anyone know if it was intended to continue onto Linden Blvd? This could explain the partially built street between Pitkin Av and Cross Bay Blvd. Most maps from, say, the 40's to the 80's show Linden Blvd completed there, as well as a cut across the northwest corner of Aqueduct Race Track, also never built. They also show a more elaborate interchange at Conduit Blvd, and the street continuing across a still-visible ROW through Tudor Park to 88th St. When Dumont Av was first built through to 88th St there was actually a curb cut on the southwest corner, blocked by a temporary real estate office building.BTW, I occasionally still see current maps showing most or all of the above. Bob |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Jan 25 13:20:28 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 12:00:48 2011. ? mean nothing,these are the AS BUILT BLUEPRINTS with track&signals IN PLACE. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Jan 25 13:20:37 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 12:00:48 2011. ? mean nothing,these are the AS BUILT BLUEPRINTS with track&signals IN PLACE. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Jan 25 13:22:17 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jan 24 14:47:59 2011. ' |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Jan 25 13:42:26 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 24 20:31:45 2011. the school has no subbasement,I was in the basement with the custodian about 4 years ago.what you see from the basement windows is all there is,no hidden entrance to the tunnel.he told me `bout a tear or so before I showed up he heard someone trying one of the coal chute doors from the street.going up he found several guys in t.a.vests,he asked them whats going on,they told him they were looking for the 76st tunel.he took them into the basement&showed them there was no hidden entrance.I was reading an ERA headlites on "red mike hyland"yesterday.it seems that in one of his hairbrained schemes of subway/el expansion he wanted to recapture& extend the new lots ave el thru blake ave.into queens.guess where?yup,76st.it seems that even in 1922 76st was controversail. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Jan 25 14:02:13 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jan 24 14:39:06 2011. sorry I can`t answer all these questions today,i,ve only got an hour at the library&its up in 2 minutes. |
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Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street |
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Posted by Randyo on Tue Jan 25 14:11:20 2011, in response to Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jan 25 12:06:07 2011. I remember in the 1960s, riding the Astoria Line and although the station signs read "Ditmars Blvd," the small signs on the light poles had not been changed and read "D. A." short for "Ditmars Ave." |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Randyo on Tue Jan 25 14:16:42 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 11:53:19 2011. I would think that the property taxes would be based on the legal address of the property. If the legal address of the property is in Queens, then the taxes go to NYC and if the legal address of the property is in North Hempstead then the taxes go to Nassau County. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jan 25 14:24:56 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Randyo on Tue Jan 25 14:16:42 2011. I would think that the property taxes would be based on the legal address of the property. If the legal address of the property is in Queens, then the taxes go to NYC and if the legal address of the property is in North Hempstead then the taxes go to Nassau County.In most places, taxes are pro-rated for the portion of the property in each locality. It's not entirely clear from this article if that's true for Queens/Nassau splits, but it seems to be the case: A House Divided |
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Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Jan 25 14:32:27 2011, in response to Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jan 25 12:06:07 2011. The station at Vernon Boulevard and Jackson Avenue on the (7) line in Queens is still tiled as "VERNON-JACKSON AVE'S" even though the street name was changed to Vernon Boulevard a long time ago. |
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Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jan 25 14:32:35 2011, in response to Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street, posted by Randyo on Tue Jan 25 14:11:20 2011. You mean something like these examples...Ditmars Avenue sign now painted over with "Blvd", 6/28/1970. Ditmars Boulevard sign, 11/14/1965. The small "Ditm's" signs, 2/11/1962. Ditmars Avenue sign, 10/18/1958 [two days after my birth]. -William A. Padron ["Astoria"] |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Jan 25 14:36:14 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jan 24 14:39:06 2011. The nearest streetcar line was on Jamaica Avenue (converted to bus 11/30/47), or Fulton Street (up to Crescent/Eldert's Lane, converted to bus 3/12/50). There was also a line on Liberty Avenue which went east to Grant Avenue (converted to bus 11/23/31). So there was really no active streetcar line in the vicinity of Pitkin and 76th Street. |
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| (1029613) | |
Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 25 14:45:02 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 12:09:02 2011. So bottom line is..because YOU don't think there's something there..all speculation is moot?You've got all figured out so its an waste of time,regardless of TUNNEL MAN'S stated eye witness account? Is that a "gut feeling"..or is it "solid proof" that there's nothing there..? hmmmm..since there is no way to prove either right or wrong with out some sort of radar kit..or someone pulling back that manhole cover and going down there..I rather believe there is "SOMETHING" down there than than nothing.. it keeps the imagination going..excited about the "great mystery or myth" begging to be solved,rather than quickly dismissed at a whim due to someone willing disbelief. As you can see..the topic keeps coming up on various levels..so some of us[most of us] are willing to talk about it..or even will to explore. So stop tossing water on the flames..and go with it. You don't want to "believe"..fine..but stop trying to tell US about it..we don't care. |
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Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street |
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Posted by Randyo on Tue Jan 25 14:45:07 2011, in response to Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jan 21 07:17:27 2011. With the length and number of sub posts in this thread, I'm not exactly sure where to put this but the end of the entire thread seems a good place. Since apparently there was a lot of non transit construction going on in the area as well as transit work, as I mentioned in some other posts, it could be possible that some other city department like water supply or even a private company like Con Ed or Bkln Union Gas might have built the infrastructure past the wall at the end of the known subway. It may be that the other agency or company was informed of the impending subway construction and opted to excavate the area for both utilities and the subway rather than have their newly installed utilities dug up again for the subway construction. That may explain why the MTA may have no records of such construction since it may not have been built by the B of T and therefore there would be no records to transfer. There are 2 other documented instances of similar construction vagaries. As per a PSC report circa 1915, the BMT 4 Av subway was built in the west side of 4 Av S/O 65 St with room left for an additional 2 tracks in case the subway were to be expanded to 4 tracks at a future date. The existing tracks would have become a S/B lcl and exp track of such a subway. With this in mind, the PSC requested that the Bkln Edison Co which was building in the area at the time, construct its circuit breaker chambers as small sections of subway tunnel so that should the line be expanded, the additional tunnel sections could be easily connected to them. That is why the NYCTA records don't show any such construction even though it exists. Those sections were not built either by or for the PSC or any dual contract subcontractor and so as far as the TA is concerned they were never built and do not exist. A similar situation exists in Washington Hts Manhattan with 174 St Yd. The Board of Ed was building PS 173 around the same time as the subway plans were made public. Rather than have the school and its adjacent schoolyard underpinned during subway construction, the B of Ed built the yard itself and all the B of T had to do was merely connect the yard leads when the rest of the subway was built. In the case of 174 St Yd unlike the 4 Av subway and 76 St, the infrastructure was put to use and remains so to this day thus the documentation is readily available. If 76 St does exist and additionally, is not itself actually in use by any agency or utility company, any records of its construction may have by now either been destroyed or at best may be extremely difficult to find since nobody but transit historians like us would really know what to look for or even care about it or know what it is even if they found it. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 25 14:55:17 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by GIS Man on Tue Jan 25 12:24:08 2011. It was to travel over ATLANTIC AVENUE as an Elevated road to Penn Avenue,then branch off to the LIRR ROW[WITH THE CANARSIE LINE],The INTERBORO PKWY and the BUSHWICK EXPWAY[it went roughly along Bushwich avenue in one plan..further north in another]..My Grandfather was one of the protesters when the city planner came around talking about how they were going to tear down one side of the street along Bushwick Avenue from ENY to the BQE..to build an elevated road and open cut. needless to say..the roads werent built due to protest.. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Teddmann on Tue Jan 25 15:00:41 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 25 14:45:02 2011. IAWTP!If I didn't care about getting arrested, or getting zapped by 600V, I would love the opportunity to venture down there and see it for myself...not that that would solve anything, but just to see it. Those pictures only left me wanting more... |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Randyo on Tue Jan 25 15:04:52 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 25 14:45:02 2011. I think I should in addition to my post later in this thread, that I first heard about the plans to extend the subway farther out in 1959 when I met George Horn and joined the ERA. In 1962, I met an IND C/R that had been in the unfinished station on a long relay move a few years before and I think that was long before the current rumor mill was started. A fellow TA employee mentioned to me that when he was flagging for the construction of Grant Av in the early 1950s, he and another flagman got lost in the labyrinth of tunnels S/O Euclid and ended up in a partially built station which fit the description given by the C/R who first told me about it. The long relay move possibly from Pitkin Yd makes sense since from personal observation I know that the A7 and A8 Yard leads were at one time connected to the existing leads and were used for some yard moves before they were disconnected and removed. These accounts describe the station similarly and were given by people who didn't know each other so that seems to lend credibility to the existence of such a structure. The listing of 2 emergency exits on Pitkin Av in the approximate area of the station in the trainmaster's emergency exit book in 1983 also adds to the credibility. There are too many factors pointing to the existence of such a station shell to outright discount its existence. |
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Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street) |
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Posted by Randyo on Tue Jan 25 15:07:39 2011, in response to Re: 76th St area - Satellite (Re: Q About LTV Squad and 76th Street), posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jan 25 14:24:56 2011. The question then comes in as to where is the property owner entitled to vote. If the property owner is compelled to pay taxes to both jurisdictions then he/she should be entitled to vote in both of them too. |
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