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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 23 19:44:42 2012, in response to Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 13:55:15 2012.

You cannot choose an arbitrary timepoint to make your argument. Prices have been steadily climbing since about 2000, with one peak and one valley. The peak was Katrina...the valley was when the subprime crisis hit.

As for the 39 percent---they may be people who don't believe that any opposition is any better qualified.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 23 19:46:06 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 16:25:07 2012.

Those states have to take the lead themselves; the feds cannot tell them.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 19:46:48 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 19:42:41 2012.

Yeah but if America's Breadbasket is polluted, that's a boon for Canadian farmers and agribusinesses who take up the slack.

They go two for two.

Meanwhile, we become India.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by ClearAspect on Thu Feb 23 19:47:32 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 19:42:38 2012.

No, it's the speculators in the commodities market that's driven up prices.

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(G00GLE)

Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.


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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 19:47:38 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 23 19:44:42 2012.

The peak as the summer of '08 when our dollar became worthless.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 19:48:47 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 19:44:34 2012.

If the president has nothing to do with the oil industry operation how can you claim that obama "PRESIDED" over an increase in domestic oil production? I've done no audits. Anything obama puts out is self serving and suspect. But as we know, this is not a supply and demand issue as our there is plenty of oil to be had given the warm winter. So your framing this as a supply and demand issue is not representative of the real issue.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 19:51:52 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by ClearAspect on Thu Feb 23 19:47:32 2012.

Absolutely! And back to my point. If speculators were not trading on the crisis with Iran right now, oil prices would be lower. If we were not so dependent on foreign oil from that part of the world (35%+) the speculators would have nothing to trade on. Right back to obama's policies.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 19:56:32 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 19:46:48 2012.

But look at the bright side ... T Boone Pickens' water cartel is finished. For those who weren't aware, Pickins is the big complainer about that pipeline ... yaknow, Dubya's friend? :)

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 19:57:29 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 19:51:52 2012.

Used to be 60% under the previous President. I'd call that progress right there ...

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:02:01 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 19:48:47 2012.

But as we know, this is not a supply and demand issue as our there is plenty of oil to be had given the warm winter.


then what is causing prices to rise. you've spent the entire thread claiming that Obama is limiting supply and now you claim that it is not a supply and demand issue!

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by RockParkMan on Thu Feb 23 20:11:47 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 19:46:48 2012.

That's why the Nazi pipeline should never see the light of day. that idiot Harper should look at NAFTA repeal and protecting his people instead of fucking the US up with a stupid Oil project.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:37:19 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:02:01 2012.

Excuse me but I did not say or intend to say that obama was limiting supply. If we are exporting oil then there is enough. My point was that he was preventing increasing domestic production of crude which has us captive to the OPEC countries. Then anything that could disrupt the global oil production is played upon by the speculators which affects our prices. That's what's happening now. The speculators have to be eliminated from the price equation.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by ClearAspect on Thu Feb 23 20:38:06 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 19:51:52 2012.

Speculators would trade based on global disruptions... Also would building any new oil rigs right now or stopping refiniries from closing would stop the prices from rising right now?

No and no

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 20:40:22 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:37:19 2012.

My point was that he was preventing increasing domestic production of crude which has us captive to the OPEC countries.

and I have pointed out that he is the first US President in 30+ years to preside over an increase in domestic oil production.

The speculators have to be eliminated from the price equation.

ahh, more regulations and balls and chains on the energy markets.
Yeah that'll work.


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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:42:23 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by ClearAspect on Thu Feb 23 20:38:06 2012.

Depends on how far out you want "no and no" to go. If you are talking next week or next month or even next year then I'd have to agree. BUT an increase in domestic production would start to curb the volatility in the American commodity markets almost immediately.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Fred G on Thu Feb 23 20:45:52 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 19:41:29 2012.

Probably take a course in oil and oil production too.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:45:56 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 20:40:22 2012.

I did not mention regulation. You continue to re-frame the argument to suggest that I am calling for things that I am not. It's very simple - even in a global market, our economy would be less impacted if there were a sudden loss of middle eastern oil IF we were no longer dependent on it. That would take the speculators out of the game without additional regulation.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:47:17 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:37:19 2012.

Excuse me but I did not say or intend to say that obama was limiting supply.

then how is Obama responsible for high Gas prices?


If we are exporting oil then there is enough.

we aren't exporting oil.


My point was that he was preventing increasing domestic production of crude which has us captive to the OPEC countries.


most of our oil imports are from non-opec countries.


Then anything that could disrupt the global oil production is played upon by the speculators which affects our prices. That's what's happening now.

since oil is a globally traded commodity that will happen now mater what domestic production is.

The speculators have to be eliminated from the price equation.

speculators do not effect consumer prices. at least not in the long run.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:49:02 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:45:56 2012.

middle eastern oil IF we were no longer dependent on it.

we aren't dependent on it we get very little oil from the middle east.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 20:50:35 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:45:56 2012.

I did not mention regulation.

Restricting speculation through the force of law is not regulation?

What is it then?


It's very simple - even in a global market, our economy would be less impacted if there were a sudden loss of middle eastern oil IF we were no longer dependent on it.

So with 3% of proven reserves and 20% of consumption, how do we become less dependent on it?

Ethanol, wood chips, algae, cat shit?


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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:51:44 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 19:31:28 2012.

Still waiting for you to admit that these photos were misleading. The smog was produced by China's reliance on high sulfur coal in power plants and industry without any form of primitive pollution control. They had nothing to do with the Chinese using unadulterated gasoline.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:53:10 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:47:17 2012.

Believe what you will. 61% of the American population agree with me

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Fred G on Thu Feb 23 20:53:52 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 19:33:21 2012.

However we do know that vehicle emissions produce smog as well.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:53:58 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:49:02 2012.

We get over 37% of our imported oil from that region.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:55:08 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 20:50:35 2012.

I did not mention force of law - you did. At least be honest in your debate.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 20:56:09 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Fred G on Thu Feb 23 20:45:52 2012.

And market economics too. And these are the republicans who consider it to be a church. LOL

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a ^$%@ Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 20:56:20 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:49:02 2012.

Sure, if 22 percent of total imports (which accounts for 60 percent of total US oil consumption per Dick Lugar) is "very little" . . . and it's no small fact that OPEC countries do work together as evidenced from back in 1973 (far more than just the Middle East) . . .

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TRAIN DUDE CHANGES THE SUBJECT Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:56:51 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:53:10 2012.

so rather than talk about the points i made you change the subject to Obama's approval rating?

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a ^$%@ Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 20:57:01 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a ^$%@ Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 20:56:20 2012.

And of course let's forget who created OPEC. Hint: wasn't the ay-rabs.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 20:57:54 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 23 20:50:35 2012.

Heh. I'm loving this proppy-gander.

So let's solve the problem then ... hand Sarah Palin a spoon, problem solved! :)

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:58:35 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:53:58 2012.

wrong 14.5%

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_a.htm

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:59:19 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 20:55:08 2012.

then how do you plan on getting rid of of the speculators?

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a ^$%@ Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 21:01:34 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a ^$%@ Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 20:56:20 2012.

it's 14.5% of our imports making it 8.7% of the total assuming you 60% number is accurate.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:04:08 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Fred G on Thu Feb 23 20:53:52 2012.

Not to the extent that SMAZ attempted to dishonestly depict in those photos.

Now if you really want to get technical - MTBE and other oxygenates may actually do more harm than good. They are known carcinogens and are banned in some places. On the other hand, the replacement, Ethanol or ETBE, blended with gasoline can actually be more harmful to the atmosphere especially when subject to evaporation. But we all know where ethanol comes from and we don't want to piss off the farmers - right?

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Fred G on Thu Feb 23 21:04:33 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 20:56:09 2012.

This thread is really ignant.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: TRAIN DUDE RE: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:05:59 2012, in response to TRAIN DUDE CHANGES THE SUBJECT Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:56:51 2012.

No I'm just tired of explaining the same shit over and over. Beleive what you want.

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RE: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:06:19 2012, in response to TRAIN DUDE CHANGES THE SUBJECT Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:56:51 2012.

No I'm just tired of explaining the same shit over and over. Beleive what you want.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Fred G on Thu Feb 23 21:06:54 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:04:08 2012.

Agree about the gas additives and yes, ethanol was heavily lobbied by the farm industy, aka Cargill and ADM, among others.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:07:34 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:58:35 2012.

I have a pie chart from 2009 that says different

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 21:08:13 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Fred G on Thu Feb 23 21:04:33 2012.

Sanitorium/GoogleRon, 2012. :)

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Dave on Thu Feb 23 21:08:26 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 17:35:42 2012.

Adam E. Sieminski of Deutsche Bank/Global Markets Commodities Research: http://www.hartwrfs.com/HomePageNewsDetails.aspx?Id=5061

Or how about:

Michael A. Giberson, PhD
Center for Energy Commerce
Rawls College of Business
Texas Tech University

Dr. Michael Giberson is assistant professor of practice with the Center for Energy Commerce in the Rawls College of Business at Texas Tech University. Giberson teaches U.S. Energy Policy and Regulation, Energy Economics, and other energy-related courses.

Formerly, he was an economist with Potomac Economics, Ltd., a leading provider of independent market monitoring and economic analysis to the electric power industry. Prior to working for Potomac, Michael Giberson worked for five years as an independent energy industry analyst and served one year as a research fellow with George Mason University's Critical Infrastructure Protection Project and the Interdisciplinary Center for Economic Science. He previously worked for the Center for the Advancement of Energy Markets and Argonne National Lab.

Do you want me to find some more?

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 21:08:55 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:07:34 2012.

I have a Captain Crunch whistle from 1975. :)

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:09:27 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Fred G on Thu Feb 23 21:06:54 2012.

So now we're back to unleaded gasoline without the summer and winter blends which I have complained about since the beginning of this thread. Take them out of the equation and gasoline drops by $1 per gallon

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 21:09:34 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 20:59:19 2012.

Make them take delivery on their contract. Once delivered, they can do what they want with it once they possess it.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:10:56 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 21:08:55 2012.

And if you stick it up your ass we'll know when you are coming.

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Re: TRAIN DUDE RE: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 21:11:21 2012, in response to Re: TRAIN DUDE RE: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:05:59 2012.

you haven't explained anything. you keep changing your explanation of how Obama is at fault for high oil prices. on minute it's too much regulation the next it's not enough regulation. one minute you claim we import too much oil the next minute it's we export too much oil. once people point out why one of your arguments is wrong you make up another one.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 21:12:13 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:10:56 2012.

If any vapors of any kind pass through that whistle, it'll take out the telephone network. I'm guessing that you don't know what 2600 Hz is all about.

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Re: TRAIN DUDE RE: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 23 21:13:40 2012, in response to Re: TRAIN DUDE RE: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 21:11:21 2012.

Since republicans are incapable of splitting an infinitive, they split the personality instead. You'll get used to it.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:16:02 2012, in response to Re: TRAIN DUDE RE: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 23 21:11:21 2012.

Then just move on. My comments were not directed at you.

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Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For.

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:25:05 2012, in response to Re: Me to Barry - Get a Fucking Job You Are Qualified For., posted by Train Dude on Thu Feb 23 21:09:27 2012.

And Smaz's argument about smog is out the window - so to speak

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