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| Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC (741917) | |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 26 12:03:48 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 10:48:04 2011. I agree that it is alive. Where we disagree is that it has humanity. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Feb 26 12:08:18 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 10:48:04 2011. No, a fetus is a fetus. It's not a viable human life until it reaches a stage where it can survive outside the womb (admittedly, advancing medical technology has brought this age-of-fetus figure downward), at which point it is a baby. A fetus cannot be "alive" in the womb, because medically, it is actually a parasite, getting all of its oxygen and nourishment from the mother. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Feb 26 12:19:00 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 26 12:03:48 2011. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Feb 26 12:23:38 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 10:48:04 2011. So is sperm. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 12:23:48 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 26 12:03:48 2011. Yeah, it's complicated but I don't see it as an intellectual argument. It's instinctual. Maybe you just have it or you don't. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 12:24:13 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by R30A on Sat Feb 26 12:23:38 2011. True. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 12:29:28 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Feb 26 12:08:18 2011. Philosophical gibberish. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 26 12:32:30 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by R30A on Sat Feb 26 12:23:38 2011. Can a sperm cell grow into an adult human? |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Feb 26 12:34:14 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 12:29:28 2011. It's not philosophical "gibberish" at all, but established medical FACT. A fetus is attached to, and completely dependent on, the mother until it reaches a level of development where it can survive (or be kept alive mechanically) outside the womb. (I will grant that a neonate being kept on life support while it finishes its development into a full-fledged baby, is considered by some to still be a fetus, but the hospital will tell you a neonate is a baby.)Fetuses are not alive in the true sense of the word while still in the womb. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 12:38:00 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Feb 26 12:34:14 2011. What about your arms? Are they alive? |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 12:38:12 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Feb 25 20:30:17 2011. You just identified the irony in this situation. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 12:41:15 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Feb 25 20:17:42 2011. That's the way it should be. Inform people of the options, with pros and cons of each option...and let the person decide. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Feb 26 12:42:09 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 12:38:00 2011. In and of themselves, no, my arms are not "alive". My arms are part and parcel of my whole body. Similarly, fetus and mother function together for the entire term. If you remove the fetus too soon, it won't be alive. It will stop functioning immediately, just like my arms will if they become detached from the rest of me. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 12:49:35 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Feb 26 12:42:09 2011. Remember what I said about gibberish? Would you mind if we stick to the scientific definition of life and not a pseudo-scientific/philosophical legal one? |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Feb 26 12:57:13 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by bingbong on Fri Feb 25 20:37:06 2011. That is such bullsh-t. Tell that to the elderly Catholic women picketing in front of fetus killing centers in all kinds of weather that they don't care about life after birth, women, or family. The fact is almost all religions are against abortion, I don't know of any that's for it. (And don't mention Reformed Judaism as that isn't real Judaism) And most religions including the Catholics are against the death penalty so that argument isn't valid. (And even if it was, 2 wrongs don't make a right)The fact is, that pretty little girl in the poster wouldn't even have been a thought if she was aborted.
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sat Feb 26 13:17:08 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 10:50:35 2011. MMMM... you're making me hungry. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 13:25:09 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sat Feb 26 13:17:08 2011. I don't eat the shrimp though because Chinese restaurants don't devein them. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Feb 26 14:25:52 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 26 10:59:08 2011. At least Democrats make the effort to help poor people & improve their lives by providing welfare, affirmative action, equal hiring. I'm pretty sure the Republicans wouldn't care if every poor person became a homeless crackhead as long as they stayed out of their wealthy neighborhoods. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Feb 26 14:27:39 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Feb 26 12:57:13 2011. This isn't about the position on this issue regarding any religion. It is about the practical reality, long term, of raising an unwanted, unplanned child. First a woman puts herself through the risks involved in pregnancy (the US has a high maternal/infant mortality rate for a developed country) being poor or uninsured increases the risks. After that she will need some means of financial support, as it is extremely difficult to find day care and hold down a job with a baby. It doesn't get all that much easier over time, and it's roughly a 20 year commitment.None of the elderly women you say picket medical care providers offices are willing to do thing one for a pregnant woman or her baby to begin with, what happens years later, when that little girl isn't so cute anymore? Let's see them actually provide real support, LONG term if they want to change the choice a terrified newly unchosen to be pregnant woman makes. They won't. They don't. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 14:53:35 2011, in response to No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Easy on Fri Feb 25 19:53:29 2011. Wonderful, once again black people are made the poster child of something "bad" in this country. Seriously, this advertisement offends me to no end.I don't care what "the facts" are, but why did they just make this some sort of racial thing? Are they grasping for straws or something? Also, who are these "Pro-abortion people"? As I recall, the "sides" are "Pro-Life" and "Pro-Choice". Pro-Choice does not necessarily mean Pro-Abortion. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sat Feb 26 15:14:52 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by JayMan on Fri Feb 25 21:05:19 2011. IAWTP. |
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It's not just blacks.... (was: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC) |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Feb 26 15:18:53 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by bingbong on Sat Feb 26 14:27:39 2011. The War on WomenPublished: February 25, 2011 Republicans in the House of Representatives are mounting an assault on women’s health and freedom that would deny millions of women access to affordable contraception and life-saving cancer screenings and cut nutritional support for millions of newborn babies in struggling families. And this is just the beginning. The budget bill pushed through the House last Saturday included the defunding of Planned Parenthood and myriad other cuts detrimental to women. It’s not likely to pass unchanged, but the urge to compromise may take a toll on these programs. And once the current skirmishing is over, House Republicans are likely to use any legislative vehicle at hand to continue the attack. The egregious cuts in the House resolution include the elimination of support for Title X, the federal family planning program for low-income women that provides birth control, breast and cervical cancer screenings, and testing for H.I.V. and other sexually transmitted diseases. In the absence of Title X’s preventive care, some women would die. The Guttmacher Institute, a leading authority on reproductive health, says a rise in unintended pregnancies would result in some 400,000 more abortions a year. An amendment offered by Representative Mike Pence, Republican of Indiana, would bar any financing of Planned Parenthood. A recent sting operation by an anti-abortion group uncovered an errant employee, who was promptly fired. That hardly warrants taking aim at an irreplaceable network of clinics, which uses no federal dollars in providing needed abortion care. It serves one in five American women at some point in her lifetime. The House resolution would slash support for international family planning and reproductive health care. And it would reimpose the odious global “gag” rule, which forbids giving federal money to any group that even talks about abortions. That rule badly hampered family planning groups working abroad to prevent infant and maternal deaths before President Obama lifted it. (Mr. Obama has tried to act responsibly. He has rescinded President George W. Bush’s wildly overreaching decision to grant new protections to health providers who not only will not perform abortions, but also will not offer emergency contraception to rape victims or fill routine prescriptions for contraceptives.) In negotiations over the health care bill last year, Democrats agreed to a scheme intended to stop insurance companies from offering plans that cover abortions. Two bills in the Republican House would go even further in denying coverage to the 30 percent or so of women who have an abortion during child-bearing years. One of the bills, offered by Representative Joe Pitts of Pennsylvania, has a provision that would allow hospitals receiving federal funds to refuse to terminate a pregnancy even when necessary to save a woman’s life. Beyond the familiar terrain of abortion or even contraception, House Republicans would inflict harm on low-income women trying to have children or who are already mothers. Their continuing resolution would cut by 10 percent the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children, better known as WIC, which serves 9.6 million low-income women, new mothers, and infants each month, and has been linked in studies to higher birth weight and lower infant mortality. The G.O.P. bill also slices $50 million from the block grant supporting programs providing prenatal health care to 2.5 million low-income women and health care to 31 million children annually. President Obama’s budget plan for next year calls for a much more modest cut. These are treacherous times for women’s reproductive rights and access to essential health care. House Republicans mistakenly believe they have a mandate to drastically scale back both even as abortion warfare is accelerating in the states. To stop them, President Obama’s firm leadership will be crucial. So will the rising voices of alarmed Americans. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/26/opinion/26sat1.html?hp |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 15:22:01 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 14:53:35 2011. Are you offended by billboards that target the higher HIV rate among gay black men? |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 16:16:30 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 15:22:01 2011. Yup, I'm quite offended by those as well. My "favorites" are the ones where there's the black man with the woman saying "this is my wife" and then the same black man with another black man saying "this is my lover".I applaud people who are willing to take a stand to bring certain issues to light, but these are not solely a "black" issue, and regardless of the intent, make black people seem to be little more than baby killing HIV spreading criminals/rappers/welfare dependents. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 16:19:39 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 16:16:30 2011. Ok, then that gives me new perspective on your concerns although I can't say that I agree with you. Sometimes showing someone that looks like you or your sister or your mother, etc helps to have things hit home. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Feb 26 16:22:16 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 16:16:30 2011. your understanding of the world is limited. such ads may appear on a billboard in a neighborhood of color. in a white neighborhood the models look different. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Feb 26 16:23:43 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Feb 26 16:22:16 2011. LifeAlways is also running bus ads, however...with yellow typeface on a black background only. Those have gotten no controversy. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 16:28:40 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Feb 26 16:22:16 2011. The owner of the Clippers, Donald Sterling, was charged with violating the Fair Housing Act and now his newspaper ads are required to feature models of various races. I guess if you use only one race it gives the impression that only one race is preferred. In his case I think that he was renting exclusively to Koreans at his Koreatown properties and now uses black and Hispanic models.It was the same thing with HIV. Initially it was seen as a "white problem" even as blacks were disproportionately effected. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 26 16:29:55 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Feb 26 08:46:21 2011. One of McGruder's earliest signons for his strip was with the Albany Times Union. It all came natural after that when it got animooted. :)Our private road was given a name for E911 after the idiot that built this house. We wanted to change the name of our road to Timid Deer Lane but the village wanted $6000 for the new signage down on the main road and the county wanted to put us through a meatgrinder to update their database. So the road still has its old name much to our chagrin. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 26 16:31:31 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 06:43:27 2011. Heh. I'm getting a major kick out of the fact that people in Egypt are buying all those pizzas. Solidarnosc, y'all. :) |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 26 16:34:51 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 06:40:41 2011. Ain't that a bitch? And it's a legitimate parliamentary procedure too. And aside from the selected whining from the RWNB media, it seems as though the majority of THEIR constituents approve of what they're doing. Or do only the constituents that YOU agree with count? |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 26 16:37:22 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 07:12:43 2011. I dunno ... strikes me as a hell of a lot more mature than what YOUR guys did right here in New York in the senate when they didn't get their way by infamy ... Locking the keys to the Senate door in somebody's desk and then taking him to Massachussetts to hide so they couldn't find the key? What if there was a fire? Oh yeah - your guys so it's OK and forgotten.Thanks for Espada, BTW. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 26 16:38:52 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 12:41:15 2011. Imagine that ... as opposed to cramming it all down a woman's throat like the republicans. :( |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 16:40:15 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Feb 26 16:22:16 2011. Yep, you and Easy make a very good point about the models being used in certain areas that may reflect the "dominant" race in the neighborhood so that people can identify with someone that "looks like them."It's not really the case in SoHo, though...Defenders Online points this out . They do point out that a similar billboard campaign has been in place in primarily black areas in the South. Wow, reading further into the article, it makes some eyebrow raising points too. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 26 16:40:16 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 12:38:12 2011. Every breakfast should be fortified with irony and fundamentalist christian moral fiber. :) |
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Re: It's not just blacks.... (was: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC) |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Feb 26 16:40:35 2011, in response to It's not just blacks.... (was: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC), posted by bingbong on Sat Feb 26 15:18:53 2011. That would be relevant to the thread if the billboard in the OP was sponsored by the Republican Party and not an anti abortion group. |
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Re: It's not just blacks.... (was: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC) |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 16:45:17 2011, in response to It's not just blacks.... (was: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC), posted by bingbong on Sat Feb 26 15:18:53 2011. WOW! I have no words! |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 26 16:49:57 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 06:51:01 2011. Oh yes yes yes! The only gyros I buy are Lamb Gyros. Sadly the only places I can get them are at the Lexington Market in Baltimore as well as Grand Central Station (although seeing them slice it off the mount of meat wasn't so appetizing, but those are sooo good!).I wonder if Reading Terminal Market sells these...I haven't found a place in there that does, but I rarely go there anyway. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:19:36 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Fred G on Sat Feb 26 07:27:40 2011. LOL! I left too, do you think I spend the whole day here! :) |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:21:44 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 08:54:27 2011. In my opinion, a fetus is human, and is alive. But that is MY opinion, some feel it's not a living thing for some reason.I am pro choice, but I DO feel that an abortion is the killing of a human being. But it's not my place to impose my views on others, thus I am pro choice. I also would rather not see a baby born that is set for a life of misery because the parents/mother doesn't want it. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:23:40 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 26 09:10:57 2011. Yes, and I eat chicken AND eggs. But I am not a cannibal, and a fetus is human, even if it's not born yet.Furthermore, I'd like to see you eat a chicken egg that's been incubated for a week or two and see how well you will like it. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:27:52 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 26 10:46:37 2011. A Human fetus is human life. It's not a cow fetus. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:29:04 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Feb 26 12:08:18 2011. No, a fetus is a fetus. It's not a viable human life until it reaches a stage where it can survive outside the wombFalse, it's still a HUMAN fetus. It's not a cow fetus or a dog fetus, it's a human fetus, and if left in the womb, will in fact turn into a human baby, not a puppy. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:30:09 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Feb 26 12:34:14 2011. A fetus is attached to, and completely dependent on, the mother until it reaches a level of development where it can surviveSo? It's still a human fetus. The mother isn't carrying a dog fetus. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:33:16 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Feb 26 12:42:09 2011. It [An arm] will stop functioning immediately, just like my arms will if they become detached from the rest of me.So when some crazy serial killer cuts off people arms, and throws them in a back alley, that isn't a HUMAN arm lying there when someone finds it? Yes, it will stop functioning when it's disconnected from the body it was attached to, but that doesn't make it any less a human arm. When someone gets shot in the heart, their body will stop functioning too, does that mean the body lying there isn't a human body? |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:35:11 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by R30A on Sat Feb 26 12:23:38 2011. Your ejaculate with sperm in it is not a human fetus unless it's properly connected with the female's egg. A sperm with out the egg, just like the egg without the sperm can not become a human. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 17:35:24 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:19:36 2011. No, that was me. lol |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:36:00 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 12:24:13 2011. Sperm hasn't formed a human until it's connected to the egg. If it's squirted out across the room, it will do nothing. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:36:37 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 26 12:32:30 2011. Nope. But a fetus can. |
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Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 26 17:47:37 2011, in response to Re: No.1 killer of blacks in NYC, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 17:36:00 2011. It you are rolled across the room and left there for too long you won't do anything either. |
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