Home  Maps  About

Home > OTChat

[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]

[1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10>> : Last

< Previous Page  

Page 4 of 32

Next Page >  

(726832)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 09:05:36 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jan 28 16:35:26 2011.

So was Saddam. Let's face it, we screwed the pooch on this issue.

I agree that this is not going to be good. Tel Aviv must be shaking their heads right now and wondering how many more tanks and fighters they're gonna need. The Muslim Brotherhood is waiting in the wings and once that happens, Algeria, Liyba and Arabia are next.

(726833)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by ClearAspect on Sat Jan 29 09:06:14 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 08:55:57 2011.

We have ElBaradei and its usually out of Chaos where leaders will start to form, but if this anger is suppressed successfully then extremist and Islamist will make the successful argument that the US has a foreign policy which oppresses Arabs and as a result Muslims. So we're our butt cheeks are spread either way.

(726834)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:12:42 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 09:05:36 2011.

So the whole shootin match of the oil supply is in danger of changing hands.

your pal,
Fred

(726835)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 09:12:42 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by ClearAspect on Sat Jan 29 08:45:26 2011.

We CANNOT have a foreign policy that is the exact opposite of what our country is supposed to fight for and believe in.

Sorry to shatter the dream, but America has never given two shits about democracy or freedom beyond our national borders. Weither it's our Latin American policy, our almost siding with Hitler, giving away half of Eastern Europe to the Soviets, Propping up African dictators with cash/weapons in exchange for minerals, Maifest Destiny, etc.....

We lost our innocence when we stopped listening to Jefferson and Washington about not moving beyond a pastoral, small, uninvolved nation. We wanted what the Brits had (Empire) and it'll eventually be our downfall.






(726836)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 09:14:15 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 09:12:42 2011.

No, none of what you said is true.

(726837)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 09:15:09 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by BMTLines on Fri Jan 28 17:29:14 2011.

That goes without saying.

(726838)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:17:12 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by ClearAspect on Sat Jan 29 09:06:14 2011.

They say that about us anyway. We're the Great Satan to them so supporting Mubarek isn't going to make a long term difference. Just like how we should have left Saddam Hussein in power or at least when they found him in the spider hole, given him a shave and sent him back to Baghdad.

your pal,
Fred

(726839)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 09:17:19 2011, in response to Egypt Revolts!, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Jan 28 16:01:55 2011.

Apparently Akhbar al-Arab reported that Hosni Mubarak fled the country on his private jet, heading to London.

Why is it that you want Egypt to turn into a copy of Iran?

(726840)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:18:06 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 09:12:42 2011.

A small, pastoral, uninvolved nation=HAITI.

It was necessary for our country to become large and prosperous.

(726841)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Jan 29 09:18:42 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by ClearAspect on Sat Jan 29 08:45:26 2011.

We can't use what happened 30 years ago as a measure of whats happening now, we're in the age where people want freedom, internet freedom, freedom to express themselves. This is a revolt against the government not lead by an Islamist but by Youth hungry for change. I think if the US continues it support of Mubarek then we invite Islamist and extremism in.

If this were ten years ago there wouldn't be all these fears. What has happened is that Americans are now so terrified of fundamentalist Islam that it is impossible to see any Middle Eastern events in any other terms. Being blinded by fear is, when you come down to it, being blind to events.

My blog


(726842)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts

Posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:18:54 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 09:14:15 2011.

Deep down inside you know you're wrong.

your pal,
Fred

(726844)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:22:12 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:18:06 2011.



your pal,
Fred

(726846)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts, Saudi King Criticizes

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 09:24:16 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Jan 29 09:18:42 2011.

What has happened is that Americans are now so terrified of fundamentalist Islam that it is impossible to see any Middle Eastern events in any other terms

So are Saudi Arabians "Americans"?

I see you're still lost in your little dreamworld.

Wall Street Journal

WORLD NEWS | JANUARY 29, 2011, 8:21 A.M. ET

Saudi Arabia Voices Support for Mubarak

By CHIP CUMMINS
Saudi Arabia strongly criticized Egyptian protesters and voiced support for beleaguered Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak on Saturday, appearing to underscore growing concern across the Arab world over possible spill-over from popular protests that have ousted Tunisia's long-time strongman and now threaten Mr. Mubarak's grip on power.

In a statement carried by Saudi's state news agency, King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz al-Saud said protests rocking Egypt were instigated by "infiltrators," who "in the name of freedom of expression, have infiltrated into the brotherly people of Egypt, to destabilize its security."

The king said protesters had been "exploited to spew out their hatred in destruction . . . inciting a malicious sedition,'' according to the statement, posted on the English website of the Saudi Press Agency.

The statement said the king telephoned Mr. Mubarak early Saturday and had been "reassured about the situation in Egypt." Saudi Arabia and Egypt have been strong allies in the region, representing two of the most important U.S.-allied Arab bulwarks against Iran.

In the wake of the Tunisia unrest, several Arab regimes, including Jordan and Yemen, have also been rocked by large protests. Those demonstrations and the ones now buffeting Egypt have raised the specter of protests spreading wider, including to the relatively wealthy, but still-authoritarian, Arab regimes of the Persian Gulf.

The king's harsh criticism of the Egyptian protesters on Saturday suggested Riyadh is eager to signal it won't tolerate unrest inside the kingdom's own borders.

Saudi's oil wealth has allowed Riyadh to insulate the Saudi population to some degree from the economic ills that have helped trigger the recent regional unrest. Flush with oil revenues, Saudi has embarked on a massive infrastructure and development splurge, including plans for giant new cities aimed at creating jobs for its ballooning youth.

Iranian officials, meanwhile, voiced continued support on Saturday for demonstrators in Egypt. The Shiite-led Iranian government in Tehran has long been at odds with its neighboring Arab states, in particular Mr. Mubarak's Egypt.

A spokesman for the Iranian Foreign Ministry said Saturday that Tehran expected Egypt to "respond to (protesters') rightful demands and refrain from exerting violence," according to Press TV, Iran's English-language state media.


(726847)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 09:24:23 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:12:42 2011.

North Africa isn't an oil region. Their biggest threat is simple geographic proximity to Europe and Israel. If Algeria gets going you're going to see France become a major player in NATO again, becasue the last thing they want is an angry Algeria. Arabia may fall, but in all honesty we can make up their oil output. What'll really happen is a giant Caliphate will now be in play from Casablanca to Tehran. And this time we might not even have the Turks onboard. (Oh, and don't forget the coming implosion of Pakistan!)

The State Department must be eating antacids like they're skittles.





(726848)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:25:23 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by SMAZ on Sat Jan 29 00:33:55 2011.

Yes, correct.

(726850)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts, Iran Very Happy

Posted by clearaspect on Sat Jan 29 09:25:45 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts, Iran Very Happy, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 08:54:33 2011.

Uhh...so you actually believe what the Ayatollah says? ....

Do you believe that the US is the Great Satan while were at it?

(726851)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:26:38 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:22:12 2011.

Good post. A small, pastoral, uninvolved nation does not produce great automobiles, or any automobiles.

(726852)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts, Iran Very Happy

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 09:28:47 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts, Iran Very Happy, posted by clearaspect on Sat Jan 29 09:25:45 2011.

so you actually believe what the Ayatollah says?

Why should he lie about this matter?

Do you believe that the US is the Great Satan while were at it?

Your attempt at twisting things is not very effective. An admission of guilt on the Ayatollah's part is not equivalent to any support of his evil views on my part.

(726854)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by clearaspect on Sat Jan 29 09:33:27 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:17:12 2011.

Touche! Btw I think this is the first thing we've disagreed on! But what I'm trying to really say is that if we look at the situation in egypt in an array of of colors rather than in black in white, and you make some strong points, but let's try to hear what the voices of the egyptian people and see where they want their country.

As much as their anti US some might be... remember who owns Facebook, twitter...americans! I love irony! Someone get me a pic of an iron!

(726855)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 09:33:58 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:18:06 2011.

Haiti is basically a slice of Africa in the Western Hemisphere, with all that entails. You can't compare situations. I have certainly no beef with our prosperity, but then again Switzerland is prosperous too w/o the dick waving and delusions of grandure.

We had it all figured out during the 50s when we could simply arm the people we liked against the people we didn't and let them fight it out on their turf. It worked in Africa, Latin America, and yes, even Afghanistan during the 80s. The problem is after we toppled the Soviets we drank our own kool-aid into believing America can will capitalism and democracy into being over every corner of the globe. That, coupled with our insatisable material greed brought this about.

We can blow up the world 10,000 times over, that's deterrant enough. Why the fuck are we sitting here playing around and sweating over camel riders in Africa? Don't you think that's enough evidence that maybe we've stuck our hand in the oven too many times?

(726856)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts, Saudi King Criticizes

Posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:34:25 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts, Saudi King Criticizes, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 09:24:16 2011.

You watch, Qaddafi will say similar. They're noivus

your pal,
Fred

(726858)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:35:19 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jan 28 17:33:57 2011.

You mean like the Muslims that controlled Egypt for 1300 years blew up the pyramids?

(726859)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 09:36:30 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:26:38 2011.

Bullshit. American freedom to succeed and do is what brought about our success. Not trying to be hero to every banana republic in the world.

(726860)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts, Iran Very Happy

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:41:26 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts, Iran Very Happy, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 08:54:33 2011.

What ever happened to Ayatollah Razmarah? Back in 1996, he and his cadre of fanatics were consolidating power.

(726861)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:42:18 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 09:24:23 2011.

Besides including Saudi Arabia in my assessment, Oil reserves in Libya are the largest in Africa and the ninth largest in the world with 41.5 billion barrels (6.60109 m3) as of 2007. per Wikipedia. You can make up the amount of oil but not inexpensively and that is more what I'm concerned about: that the Shia will be able to play havoc with our economy, which ebbs and flows with oil prices.

your pal,
Fred

(726862)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:42:51 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 09:36:30 2011.

And that success is what makes us not a small, pastoral, uninvolved country.

(726863)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 29 09:43:15 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:03:58 2011.

You made it sound like we went from a "proUS" country to a potentially antiUS country at 'our own hand". That is false, they were FAR from "proUS" prior to this.

(726864)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 29 09:44:12 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:05:06 2011.

Correct, it "depends" on their cost of living, which I haven't a clue what it is, but you can't just take an arbitrary number, and compare what that number means here in the US to another country.

(726865)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:45:02 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 09:33:58 2011.

Switzerland is not small (economically), not pastoral. It is uninvolved though. We tried to be uninvolved in the eastern hemisphere until the 20th century. It didn't work out.

(726866)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 29 09:48:35 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by SMAZ on Sat Jan 29 00:33:55 2011.

Duh. That's not what I said. I said the effect of that collapse would have been far worse if the prices weren't down. They have been creeping back up. You can find posts of mine during the lower oil prices time back then about how much more money I had in my wallet with the lower prices, and how that money was being fed back into the economy for things I was buying, that now am not buying anymore. And multiply that by everyone else who also isn't spending that gas/oil money on other things, and instead putting it into their cars and furnaces.

(726867)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 29 09:48:53 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:25:23 2011.

Yes, he's correct, but that's not what I said.

(726868)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 09:50:00 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by vfrt on Fri Jan 28 17:25:04 2011.

"Might" . . . ? Here's Iran's confession.

(726870)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts, Iran Very Happy

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 09:50:42 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts, Iran Very Happy, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:41:26 2011.

You worried about two bad neighbors or something . . . ?

(726871)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 29 09:50:47 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:35:19 2011.

They didn't blow up the Buddhas in Afghanistan until 10 years ago either. It's the current regimes of fundamentalist Muslims that have done that, and will continue to do that. They don't give a damn about any other culture or history except for their own, and their twisted religious beliefs.

(726872)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:53:00 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 29 09:43:15 2011.

My point was that we replaced Saddam with another group who will become anti-US, not that we changed it from pro to anti.

your pal,
Fred

(726874)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:53:37 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 29 09:43:15 2011.

My point was that we replaced Saddam with another group who will become anti-US, not that we changed it from pro to anti.

your pal,
Fred

(726877)

view threaded

Re: EU!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:58:35 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jan 28 22:58:11 2011.

EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU EU

(726878)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 10:06:48 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 09:45:02 2011.

If you're talking about WWII, Japan attacked us. No one would argue America didn't have a right to go and kick Tokyo's ass. As far as Europe is concerend, again, Germany dclared war. With U-boats being spotted as close as 100 miles offshore, they too need to be ass-kicked.

America has a right to defend herself/allies/interests. It's when we morph that into a cultural/ideological mandate to mold the world into our image that powers crumble. As much as I agree with the American ideal as virtous and preferable to what's out there, we don't have a divine provence to rescue people from themselves. Every great force thinks they're the one who has the final answer, and each and every one has disappeared or fallen from the podium.

I do agree that we may necessarily have to have remained "Small and Pastoral" per say, but it's a epuhinsum(sp) for putting american vaules before any precieved geo-political glory.

(726879)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts, Iran Very Happy

Posted by clearaspect on Sat Jan 29 10:08:25 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts, Iran Very Happy, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 29 09:28:47 2011.

1. Because this revolt isn't based on Islamists or extremism
2. Because the ayotollah is in Iran
3. Because they used Twitter and facebook to organize... both are banned in Iran

The fact that you're using what the ayotollah has said proves you're grabbing at straws...quit while you're ahead, this proves you have 0 understanding of the situation in Egypt.

If anything if this spreads...Iran will be in the crosshairs of any revolt, it was squashed after Amablahblah was elected again... this time the opposition will be re-energized and we can see a possible change in Iran.

Iran...sorry the Ayotollah is just manipulating the situation...

...and you like a sucker believed it

I got a bridge id like to sell you

(726880)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 10:10:58 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 09:42:18 2011.

I may be mistaken, but I believe Reagan cut Libya off from the American market becuase he too started acting stupid in the early 80s. It's probably the Europeans tapping that if anyone and to be somewhat cold it's their problem.

Remember kids, supporting Mass Transit is Supporting America! Maybe we should run down to Kinkos and start printing up some old school posters with that one...

(726881)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 10:14:07 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 10:06:48 2011.

OK, I agree.

(726882)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 10:16:49 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 29 09:44:12 2011.

I think a good metric is how many calories per day they eat. While eating less than Americans is good, significantly less is bad.

There's also life expectancy.

(726884)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 10:18:41 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 10:10:58 2011.

Didn't we reconcile with Libya recently? We have diplomatic relations with them again.

(726885)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 10:19:43 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 29 09:48:35 2011.

They are creeping back up due to the economic recovery.

(726886)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 10:20:14 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 29 09:50:47 2011.

The Taliban is not the same as other Islamic movements. They're less Islamic than insane.

(726888)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 10:26:54 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 29 10:10:58 2011.

That doesn't matter per se, as an unstable hand controlling oil could shut off, say, Europe and then they'll chase after other available sources of oil and even if not successful in taking oil away from us, will drive the price up.

I think individual electric cars solves our transportation issue. No major petroleum consumption and no government make work transit agencies. Everybody is happy.

your pal,
Fred

(726893)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 29 11:02:28 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 29 10:19:43 2011.

Yes, I understand that. But that also is a double sided sword, as it allows for less money to spend on other things in the economy.

(726902)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Easy on Sat Jan 29 11:38:54 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jan 28 17:17:14 2011.

And the soon to follow "kill the gays" laws.

(726904)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by Railman718 on Sat Jan 29 11:45:01 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 29 07:50:16 2011.

IAWTP.

(726905)

view threaded

Re: Egypt Revolts!

Posted by BMTLines on Sat Jan 29 11:47:42 2011, in response to Re: Egypt Revolts!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jan 28 19:25:47 2011.

Unfortunately if they succeed in overthrowing the government they will leave a power vacuum which the radical islamists will most likely quickly maneuver to fill. The French revolution probably never envisioned that it would evolve into Napoleon's empire, but that is what happens when governments are toppled with no organization in place to fill the void.

[1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10>> : Last

< Previous Page  

Page 4 of 32

Next Page >  


[ Return to the Message Index ]