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Re: I guess ny sucks

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 19:48:41 2007, in response to I guess ny sucks, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Dec 23 15:40:28 2007.

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Newsday is as left-wing and liberal as newsrags get. In this case, all the perfume can't get a skunk to smell good.. On a positive note, we were spared Les Payne's usual racist bullshit and tales of the old south when he was a boy young lad.

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(271394)

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 19:50:45 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 19:26:14 2007.

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It's not the "acting ghetto" aspect of rap that seems so dangerous. To me, it's the acceptance of violence as being part of the rap culture. If you really want to be something in rap music, you pretty much have to have a feud going with another rapper. The possibility of that feud escalating to full-scale violence, even murder, is very real. Don't believe me? Look at the body count, and number of incidents over the years. This mentality prevails in rap, and no other genre of music.

In rap, your lyrics can get you killed. I don't think Kevin Federline is going to get together with his posse and shoot Eminem for "dissin" his girlfried. Nor do I think the Backstreet Boys plan on killing Justin Timberlake anytime soon over some perceived grieveance. 50-cent has many enemies, many of whom are capable of killing him if given the chance. That's the difference.

Look at Young Jeezy. I never heard of him until he was facing weapons charges in Atlanta, and USA Today was more than happy to do a piece on him, and his long troubled history of run-ins with the law. The relationship between rap and criminality has become a marketing tool.

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(271396)

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Re: I guess ny sucks

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 23 19:59:03 2007, in response to Re: I guess ny sucks, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 19:42:09 2007.

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I won't be railfanning in Suffolk County anytime soon.

Your loss. More room for the rest of the railfans and commuters.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 20:24:54 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 19:50:45 2007.

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I guess I'm getting old. I don't recognize any of the names you mentioned.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 20:31:16 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by R30A on Sun Dec 23 17:56:29 2007.

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Isolated from the world? Heck, did you see how sad and desperate he looked with his TRAIN DUDE PLEASE EMAIL ME topic? People were laughing at him.

I get the feeling he's the kind of guy who has an elite left attitude simply to separate himself from others, not because he has a genuine interest in any injustices done to minorities. He talks like he marched with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., or organized The Million Man March himself.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 20:40:52 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 20:31:16 2007.

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No, I generally ignore Ron in Bayside's posts but in this thread he made many good arguments. While most people that I considered to be decent showed their true colors in this thread Ron has addressed the racism aspect of the trial. I commend him for that.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by aem7ac on Sun Dec 23 20:50:24 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 20:40:52 2007.

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You're so smelly!

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Re: I guess ny sucks

Posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 20:52:18 2007, in response to Re: I guess ny sucks, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 19:48:41 2007.

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Newsday did a horrid job of reporting both the shooting and trial. A lot of misinformation and omission.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 20:52:30 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 20:40:52 2007.

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In other words, you agree with Ron's point of view even though he may just be pandering to people like you?

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 20:54:36 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 19:33:23 2007.

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Actually, he didn't - he was just following the theme :)

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Re: I guess ny sucks

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 20:54:37 2007, in response to Re: I guess ny sucks, posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 20:52:18 2007.

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That's why newsday circulation has so dropped into the crapper they lied about circulation numbers to maintain their revenue. People are tired of the Race-Baiting rants of Les Payne and the other soldiers of the far left.

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Re: I guess ny sucks

Posted by aem7ac on Sun Dec 23 20:57:14 2007, in response to Re: I guess ny sucks, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 20:54:37 2007.

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I didn't read Newsday back in the day, but from what I gather it was a pretty good paper compared to most small town papers, like the Lowell Sun or the Haverhill Gazette.

Certainly based on my reading, the Newsday writers had a little more depth than those at the two Massachusetts papers I've just mentioned, but that doesn't mean much.

NY Post, on the other hand, I can't stand at all. That paper is worse than The Sun.

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Re: I guess ny sucks

Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 23 20:58:08 2007, in response to Re: I guess ny sucks, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 20:54:37 2007.

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Most newspapers around the country are losing circulation like crazy. NYC is one of the few cities where people still read the paper at traditional levels. "They" say that it's because so many people read the paper on mass transit.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by R30A on Sun Dec 23 20:59:17 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:28:27 2007.

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We all know ron has a disconnect from reality.
Seriously chris, what do you expect?

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by R30A on Sun Dec 23 21:04:46 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 19:33:25 2007.

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Many black people do not agree that all uses of such word are offensive.
Your second statement is simply idiotic.

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Re: I guess ny sucks

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Dec 23 21:25:31 2007, in response to Re: I guess ny sucks, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 23 20:58:08 2007.

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Most newspapers around the country are losing circulation like crazy. NYC is one of the few cities where people still read the paper at traditional levels. "They" say that it's because so many people read the paper on mass transit.

Newspapers have long gotten a big share of their revenues from classified ads. That source is rapidly drying up, however, now that so many people use Craigslist instead.

My LIRR/NYCT blog


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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Dec 23 21:27:30 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 19:50:45 2007.

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Nor do I think the Backstreet Boys plan on killing Justin Timberlake anytime soon over some perceived grieveance.

Pity.

My LIRR/NYCT blog

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Re: I guess ny sucks

Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 23 21:28:24 2007, in response to Re: I guess ny sucks, posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Dec 23 21:25:31 2007.

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I didn't realize that. I didn't even notice that Craigslist had spread outside California since I never use it.

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Re: I guess ny sucks

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Dec 23 21:30:52 2007, in response to Re: I guess ny sucks, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 23 21:28:24 2007.

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I didn't even notice that Craigslist had spread outside California since I never use it.

It's all over the place now.

My LIRR/NYCT blog

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Dec 23 22:15:15 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 20:24:54 2007.

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Judging by your previous posts regarding your fondness for doo-wop and your dislike of 70's and 80's pop music makes you ancient!!! :-)

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 23:02:12 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:17:49 2007.

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However, they did enter the property illegally without permission of the owner...and the law treats the land the same as the house. Why weren't the friends charged with trespassing, since they were clearly unwelcome on the property?

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 23:04:13 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 11:29:22 2007.

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However, is it possible that John White believed that they weren't leaving the property, and were looking to pick a fight? Given that the kids were 16-18 and Mr. White at the time was 53...I would think that the kids could possibly have caught up to him BEFORE he could have made it back in.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 23:06:42 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 23:04:13 2007.

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Unsupportable hypothesis based on poor suppositions and no evidence. If he never came out and just called 911 none of this would have happened.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 23:07:19 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:19:57 2007.

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Goetz, however, was NOT justified, in shooting Cabey AFTER he was already down. No matter what, when someone is no longer a threat, harming that person further now puts YOU in the wrong.

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(271481)

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 23:09:10 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 23:06:42 2007.

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Then I ask you...in such a circumstance...what would YOU do in the heat of the moment?

Ciccaro isn't 100% blameless. He and his friends knew (or should have known) not to enter the property. Why aren't these kids also prosecuted for trespassing?

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 23:59:51 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 23:09:10 2007.

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"Why aren't these kids also prosecuted for trespassing?"

Please! Is this "we need to get them on something", time? Were they actually on the White property or in the street in front of the house? I don't know and most likely, neither do you. You have one dead 17 year old and 2 families ruined by the crime and you want to worry about a misdemeanor tresspassing charge like that will fix everything?

I think it's pretty much agreed here and by the jury that the reasonable thing to do would have been to lock the door and call 911. Shooting in self defense should have been the last resorn - not the first option.


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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:00:11 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 23:06:42 2007.

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"If he never came out and just called 911 none of this would have happened. "

Same is true of Mr. Horn in Texas, who came out and shot two burglars, not even at his house but next door, just as the police rolled up. He too should get time.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 24 00:05:17 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:00:11 2007.

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Why don't you hop on your moped, head for texas and talk to the prosecutor - who may give a shit.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:06:41 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 24 00:05:17 2007.

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Do you disagree with my post? And why? Or do you just wanna be a dick?

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 24 00:12:04 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:06:41 2007.

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I have no idea who Mr. Horn is nor do I care. We are discussing Mr. White in Suffolk County, NY. Texas is another state with different laws. Now do you want to grow a dick and be a man?

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:13:40 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 24 00:12:04 2007.

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You're always good for a laugh before bedtime.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 24 00:15:51 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:13:40 2007.

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"You're always good for a laugh before bedtime. "

I'm sure that your female friends say the same when you drop your pants but hey, that's a topic for another thread

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:16:57 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 24 00:15:51 2007.

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So sadly predictable. Like, as the oldtimers say, a broken record.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 24 00:21:43 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:00:11 2007.

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He shot two people, illegally in the United States, who were in the act of robbing a home. That's a violent crime. Totally different situation. "He should get time" you say. It's like your keeping a racial scoreboard or something. Mr. White was convicted, therefore Mr. Horn should be convicted, just to keep things even.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:29:33 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 24 00:21:43 2007.

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Not at all . I just seems to me the crimes were similar. In both cases, a homeowner is "confronted", once by an arguably racist group threatening his son, the other by a group of burglars of a different race burgling bis neighbor's house.

If anything, John White's actions were more understandable than Mr. Horn's. Mr. Horn was not physically threatened, nor was his own house being broken into. And the 911 operator told Mr. Horn to stay put, the cops were on their way. And the cops did roll up just as he shot the 2 burglars.

And what is the relevance of the burglars being illegal? Mr. Horn did not know that. Does their illegal status make them more deserving of being killed for an burglary where they were not attacking any people?

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Re: I guess ny sucks

Posted by Grand concourse on Mon Dec 24 00:42:54 2007, in response to Re: I guess ny sucks, posted by aem7ac on Sun Dec 23 19:47:04 2007.

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Well if so then I'd want the $25 and $30 some mil [1800s value] the US sent to mexico to pay for those lands annexed from Mexico [but do we have to give back Vegas too? :) ]

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Re: I guess ny sucks

Posted by Grand concourse on Mon Dec 24 00:44:11 2007, in response to Re: I guess ny sucks, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 20:54:37 2007.

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How about the Daily News? I think it is ok.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 24 00:48:55 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 13:33:15 2007.

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Last night I prayed for him and his father.

At least you didn't do anything constructive.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by Easy on Mon Dec 24 00:53:27 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 24 00:48:55 2007.

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You need jeebus.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 24 00:54:55 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:29:33 2007.

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Burglary is a violent crime. Mr. Horn has a right to confront someone committing a violent crime. Don't you agree? Wouldn't you feel better knowing you live in a community where people watch out for each other?



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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:55:49 2007, in response to John White Found Guilty, posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 22 23:29:44 2007.

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Very simple analysis. While I sympathize with White's dilemma, what he did was wrong. The "punishment" (death) just did not fit the "crime" (vague threats). Killing was disproportionate to the threat. Cicciaro did not deserve to die even if he was a racist.

Similar to the case in Texas where homeowner killed 2 guys burgling next door neighbor's house. Punishment did not fit the crime. And there was a racial component there too -- homeowner was white, victims Hispanic. He too should do time.

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(271518)

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 01:00:17 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 24 00:54:55 2007.

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Burglary is a crime against property. Death by vigilante is not an appropriate punishment. It isi disproportionate to the act. "The punishment does not fit the crime."

He watched out for his neighbor by calling 911. (That's all I would expect form my neighbor -- I don't expect my neighbors to put their lives on the line for my property by confronting violent criminals.)

911 told him to stay put. Just as he killed the bad guys, cop car rolled up. He shoulda waited.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 24 01:05:33 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:55:49 2007.

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And yet, the New Black Panther Party is leading the protests against Mr. Horn, even though the guys who were shot are Central American. In a city with millions of Hispanics, why is NBPP involved?

The burglars were engaged in a violent act. They posed a threat. Thanks to Mr. Horn, two less violent ciminals are on the streets. The world is a better place.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 24 01:06:28 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 01:00:17 2007.

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Sorry. World is a much better place without those two criminals on the street.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Dec 24 01:34:10 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 24 00:54:55 2007.

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Potentially violent. If Cicciaro had burglarized White's home, White would be within his rights to detain Cicciaro; if Cicciaro resisted by force it would turn into robbery. But that did not happen here. That's not what Cicciaro did.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Dec 24 01:40:59 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 24 00:21:43 2007.

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Robbery means use of force to steal from another. Burglary means no confrontation with homeowner occurred.

In Missouri, if you break into a home and threaten the occupants to steal cash or valuables, and use a weapon, you will be charged with:

1) Robbery
2) Illegal possesion of weapon (if no permit or illegal weapon type like full automatic)
3) Armed criminal action - use of a weapon to commit a crime (will add additional mandatory prison time to your sentence)

Missouri has mandatory sentencing for gun crimes: "Use a gun, go to prison. No probation."

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 24 01:48:26 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 24 00:55:49 2007.

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Texas Penal Code allows use of deadly force to stop a robbery. Do a little research on it. That's why Horn wasn't arrested.

If you think the fact that these violent criminals were Hispanic, the Hispanic community isn't feeling it like you are. They're tired, like everyone else, of these break-ins.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Dec 24 03:43:17 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 23:02:12 2007.

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From what I read in the Daily News, the gang of kids may have been standing on the sidewalk, as it states that Mr. White walked all the way out to "the edge of" of the driveway.

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Dec 24 03:59:24 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by R30A on Sun Dec 23 17:49:42 2007.

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Next time I see a Jewish friend in the street I'm gonna go,

"Yo, my cracka kike, Jesus killin' homie, what up, foo?"

I'll make sure to perform some illin' hand gestures along with it. Then I'll be ballin', y'know wut im sayin?

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Re: John White Found Guilty

Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Dec 24 04:07:08 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:11:55 2007.

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Cicciaro did have a KKK type lynching in mind when he went to White's place.

You were there?

AND in Cicciaro's mind?

You're amazing, Ron.

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