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| Re: More insane laws (243623) | |
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Re: More insane laws |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Sep 10 02:15:17 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Easy on Mon Sep 10 01:35:36 2007. WRONGJimmymc25 |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Sep 10 05:27:32 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 5 10:01:35 2007. LOL, you must be a smoker.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Sep 10 05:31:43 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Grand concourse on Mon Sep 10 00:44:06 2007. The answer is unknown. New York is so screwed up, that may be the only solution given it'd bleed special interests out of government. |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Sep 10 05:41:42 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Rail Blue on Sun Sep 9 11:12:06 2007. Bars are smoky places where people get drunk. Next you'll hear someone complaining that "a guy was slurring his words in the barroom" and we'll ban drinking in bars.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Sep 10 06:50:32 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Easy on Sun Sep 9 12:17:10 2007. You just didn't like the fact that everyone would know where you were ell oh ell.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by BMTLines on Mon Sep 10 07:34:59 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Sep 10 01:16:55 2007. Since the employees (i.e. waiters and waitresses) wanted the smoking ban then the smokers should have organized a tip strike - bring them to their knees till they are begging the city to allow smoking again! |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 10 07:59:16 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by BMTLines on Tue Sep 4 21:26:49 2007. I agree but IMHO, drinking age should go to 20. 18 is pushing it, especially when most still happen to be high school students.Vader |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:19:04 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 10 07:59:16 2007. If 18 year olds are old enough to join the military, go to far off places killing themselves and fighting in wars with guns and all....they are old enough to walk into a bar and buy a beer. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:23:37 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Easy on Sun Sep 9 23:39:05 2007. The smoke also affects employees. IIRC employee complaints had a lot to do with the ban. Smokers have the freedom to stay home and smoke as much as they want.Of course, and people have tehe right to work in smoke free enviroments, that's why it's not legal in buplic buildings. However, there is no reason they couldn't have some smolke free restaurant AREAS. Again, if employees are a problem, HIRE employees who smoke (waiters, waitresses, etc) There ARE plenty of them. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:26:54 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by BMTLines on Mon Sep 10 07:34:59 2007. It's not the city. The city had a common sense law that allowed smoking in fully enclosed areas, similar to Suffolk county (I believe). It's New York State that eventually banned it completely, and state law overrules municipality law. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:28:14 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Fred G on Mon Sep 10 05:41:42 2007. Fred, it doesn't sound all that outrageous. That's what happens with these nanny laws, they keep building up amd up until it gets out of control, and more and more freedoms are legislated away, little by little. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:30:00 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 00:49:55 2007. Totally untrue. I have seen it in many restaurant/bars in the city, and MANY more in suffolk county. Every single bar/restaurant I know that was around before the law enclosed their bar areas in with glass, or smoking areas in with glass., installed filtration system, etc. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 10 08:30:36 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:30:00 2007. PWN3D |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:32:53 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by BMTLines on Mon Sep 10 00:37:07 2007. Absolutely, and this is why this has gone too far (and again, I don't even smoke!), but totally feel this is completely wrong. I totally understand it being illegal inside most public buildings, but it has gone too far when it's become illegal to smoke on the sidewalk, in private cars, and in private homes. And that is the next step which is now materializing, now that the first round of nanny laws were put out on it. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:35:00 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Sep 10 01:22:38 2007. What's interesting, is that many airports have smoking areas, a little enclosed area, usually outside where people can smoke, inside security control, but before they board the plane. I know I have seen them at LAX, Miami, Las Vegas Mc Carren, and actually many other airports (New York airports excluded....but at least they allow it outside the terminal, but that's before security checkpoint). |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 10 09:12:17 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:32:53 2007. I totally understand it being illegal inside most public buildings, but it has gone too far when it's become illegal to smoke on the sidewalk, in private cars, and in private homes.Where in the US is it illegal to smoke on the sidewalk, in private cars, or private homes? And you can't cite Norway as a trend of what might happen here. |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 10 09:33:31 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 4 14:32:17 2007. McDLT was the zhit. I always liked that sandwich and was what started me eating lettuce and tomatos on my burgers. My cuz who used to manage several McDonalds in Brooklyn said it was the Big Mac that killed the 'DLT because the sandwiches were similar with exception to tomatos, double pattys and secret sauce(which I make myself, lol). But the 'DLT did have some reincarnations, namely the Arch Deluxe and the Big n' Tasty.Lord Vader |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:43:11 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:30:00 2007. I was referring to the NYC ban, which I had thought was obvious considering the post responded to. |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:44:03 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 10 08:30:36 2007. Nope...it was obvious (or should have been) that I was talking about the five boroughs EXPRESSLY, and NOT Suffolk County. (Had I been talking about Suffolk, I wouldn't have made that statement.)Re-read. |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Sep 10 09:50:44 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:28:14 2007. I just wonder if it's worth the 2 year bump in life expectancy to protect ourselves from ourselves.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 10 09:55:23 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Fred G on Mon Sep 10 09:50:44 2007. I just wonder if it's worth the 2 year bump in life expectancy to protect ourselves from ourselves.I don't want to be protected from myself. I want to be protected from my fellow humans whose behavior seriously affects my health (in the case of indoor smoking) or my wallet (in the case of non-seat-belt use). |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Sep 10 10:17:12 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 10 09:55:23 2007. Smoking, I can agree with you since if you wanted to smoke, you'd light one up yourself, but as far as your wallet, you're pointing to the source of the nanny state laws. "I don't want to pay for [your indiscretion here]". Obesity will be next after smoking to get the zealot treatment. Then "extreme" sports. It will continue until we live in a rubber/nerf lined insurance industry paradise :(your pal, Fred |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 10 10:53:13 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:19:04 2007. Understood, but like I said, most are still students. I cannot imagine myself at 18 with a hangover reporting at 7:30 AM for Economics class. One exception that I can say to agree with your view is that they are out of high school. After graduation, bring on the kegs.Vader |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 10:53:54 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Fred G on Mon Sep 10 10:17:12 2007. That's the point. Humans are self destructive, you can't change that. What's next, outlawing McDonalds because it's fattening, and causes problems that medical care may one day have to take care of? THAT is the point about my outrage over the smoking laws and these other nanny laws.The same with seatbelt laws, helmut laws, and all the rest of them. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 11:00:45 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 10 09:33:31 2007. I also liked the McDLT....until the strofoam ban came into effec, and they began selling it as a wrapped burger, and defeated the whole purpose of the cold side cold, and the hot side hot....However....in the case of the strofoam bans, I am for that...I don't consider them to be "nanny laws". |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 11:02:27 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 10 10:53:13 2007. I cannot imagine myself at 18 with a hangover reporting at 7:30 AM for Economics class.Of course...but again, at that age you could be in Iraq on covert missions too..... Kids are GOING to drink, there is no stopping it. And 18 year olds are "adult" for many things. I much rather have them legally drinking semi-supervised in a bar, than doing it on the downlow in someone's basement.... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 11:08:15 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 10 09:55:23 2007. I don't want to be protected from myself. I want to be protected from my fellow humans whose behavior seriously affects my health (in the case of indoor smoking)Then don't go into the enclosed "smoking areas" of a restaurant! Walking past someone on the street, in open areas is not going to hurt you, and it's already illegal in indoor public areas (like buildings, etc). The problem is, they are legislating all our freedoms away. The next progression on this will be a ban on the street, and then a ban in private cars, and then in people's own homes. This IS what is happening as we as a people keep allowing this erosion, little by little. And this goes way beyond smoking laws. or my wallet (in the case of non-seat-belt use). Bullcrap. So let's ban drinking because it may cause liver disease (thus insurance for medical care). Let's ban fast food restaurants because they may cause health problems later in life (thus insurance for medical care). Let's ban cars completely, because you may get into an accident (thus insurance for medical care if you are hurt). Whenever I hear that ridiculous excuse for saying it's "not a protecting us from ourselves law", I want to heave, as it's the lamest excuse out there for erosion of freedom. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 11:10:56 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:44:03 2007. And as I said in my post, I have seen the conversion in MANY NYC restaurants before the complete ban by NY State. So yes, you are wrong. Many have since removed the enclosures, as it's a while ago at this point. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 11:11:43 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:43:11 2007. Right, and what can't you read about my statement: Totally untrue. I have seen it in many restaurant/bars in the city, and MANY more in suffolk county. |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 11:15:15 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 11:10:56 2007. The stat that I am going by, is that one establishment made a formal application for reimbursement...and this was reported on the news. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 11:21:29 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 10 09:12:17 2007. In sdome cities in Californis....the same state many of the original smoking bans came from. These are just some examples out there. It's more and more each year. This is how it begins, as I said, just think of the freedoms we lost since the 70's, and it's worse each year. It starts small, but spreads:Calabassas, California/ And it's on the table in many other places. Little by little they ARE legislating our freedoms away. As I said, you give an inch, they keep taking more and more: Council hears about sidewalk smokers from residents And there are many more....just google outdoor smoking ban, and you will find hundreds of laws or proposals in hundreds of municipalities. ANd as for the ban on soming in PRIVATE cars, New Jersey just tried it....and other places too...here's one article. It starts with ridiculousness like this. Sounds outrageos...just mark my word as this trend continues: No butts behind wheel? N.J. moves on smokers I can link you to MANY more spots and legislation all around the country, but these are just three in a simple 3 minute google quick search. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 11:24:55 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 11:15:15 2007. I can name just three restaurants in a quick thought in Ridgewood, Queens. That's three in a small part of one borough. I have also been in Manhattan restaurants (again, this was a while ago, some may not even be open today anymore, or may have removed them). I have NO idea if they sued, probably not....but what does one restaurant suing for reimbursment have to do with the fact that many did the conversion?Go to many bar/restaurants....notice the glass around the bar....most didn't have that before the "seperation" ban went into effect, and was added at that time....many also added glass doors to the bar areas when that happened to totally enclose them....many restaurants simply removed the glass doors, or leave them open now...but most were put there when the law was enacted. |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Sep 10 11:26:12 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 08:23:37 2007. Dude, it's not the employees that are the problem, it's the smokers. I don't see how you can't see that. For some reason you're okay with people not smoking in the building where you work, but you think that restaurant workers should have to tolerate it or move on.Would you feel the same way if your company setup a safe-to-smoke zone for employees that took over half the office? And you still need to use that half of the office to make copies, talk to accounting, go to the breakroom, etc? Would you say that YOU were the problem and that you should find another job? And then let's say that you decide to move on only to find out that EVERY office is setup the same way? That seems fair to you somehow? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 11:35:52 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Easy on Mon Sep 10 11:26:12 2007. For some reason you're okay with people not smoking in the building where you work, but you think that restaurant workers should have to tolerate it or move on.I told you, hire smoking workers. There are PLENTY of them. It's a FREE country, you are free to work where you want, or don't want. Would you feel the same way if your company setup a safe-to-smoke zone for employees that took over half the office? Who cares? As long as I have my area free of it, what the hell difference does it make? And as I said, you had enclosed smoking areas in the restaurant, and the rest is non-smoking. Don't work or patronize the smoking area if you don't want it! And you still need to use that half of the office to make copies, talk to accounting, go to the breakroom, etc? Why should they be allowed to use the hall to smoke!? I said, an enclosed area. If you can't make that seperate area seperate...then you don't have a smoking area....if you can however, they it should be an allowable option. Would you say that YOU were the problem and that you should find another job? Who is saying anyone is a "problem"? These were areas where there were SEPERATE smoking areas. You knew that BEFORE you took your job. As I mentioned many, many times, I said that all buildings should be smoke free....however, if you can have, or do have a SPERATE smoking area, then I don't see a problem at all, and it should be allowable. It's up to restaurant/building owners to decide it's worth the expense. Many would opt not to spend the money, some will. The choise should be theirs, not the governments. If it's so hard to understand the concept of a "free country", then move to a country where the government decides what's "good for you". |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Sep 10 13:03:19 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 11:21:29 2007. We need a national protest with all the rights taken from us which we were not able to protest.We need direct democracy, NOW!! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Mon Sep 10 13:22:38 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Sep 10 13:03:19 2007. We need direct democracy, NOW!!Actually that is even more frightening - leave it up to the "majority" and your freedoms will be voted away faster than ever! |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 13:51:18 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 10 07:59:16 2007. I disagree. In nearly every other country it is 18, or even lower. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 13:52:07 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 10 10:53:13 2007. Just because it's legal to drink doesn't mean that one would drink to excess all the time. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 13:58:40 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by BMTLines on Mon Sep 10 13:22:38 2007. TRUTH |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Sep 10 14:07:42 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by BMTLines on Mon Sep 10 13:22:38 2007. How can you say? The fed-up majority wouldn't have risen the drinking age or have gone haywire after 9/11 or passed smoking bans. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 14:15:01 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Sep 10 14:07:42 2007. I completely disagree. The legislatures represent the majority. At least with our system there is some semblance of minority control which would be completely lost with a direct democracy. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 14:17:18 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 13:51:18 2007. Exactly....and as mentioned, just because it's legal, doesn't mean that everyone is going out getting sloshed all the time. Unfortunately, the few bad eggs spoil all the responsible people's freedoms....and that is wrong. |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Sep 10 14:22:51 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 14:15:01 2007. Why then does the current system seem so corrupt and unrepresentative while direct democracy seems pure and representative? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 14:26:36 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Sep 10 14:22:51 2007. There are no practical examples of direct democracy to compare. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 14:42:09 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Sep 10 14:22:51 2007. Your head is in the stand. Things may not be perceft here, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be. If it's so "horrible" here, I suggest you find a country that's more to your liking and move there. Trust me, you won't know how good you have it.... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 14:44:04 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 14:42:09 2007. I meant "the sand", not the "stand". |
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Posted by BMTLines on Mon Sep 10 14:52:41 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Sep 10 14:07:42 2007. As an example of "democracy" look at the way some homeowner associations are run. The majority dictates how high your grass can be, what decorations you can and can't put on your lawn, what color your house must be painted, etc, ad nauseum. OTOH I would like the freedom to put trolley tracks and railroad signals in front of my house and turn the garage into a replica of a subway station if I so desire. Sometimes freedom needs to be protected from democracy! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 14:58:19 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by BMTLines on Mon Sep 10 14:52:41 2007. look at the way some homeowner associations are run. The majority dictates how high your grass can be, what decorations you can and can't put on your lawn, what color your house must be painted, etc, ad nauseumThat's different...that's not government. Anyone living there knew about the rules that were in effect before they decided to buy in those communities. Remember, it's a free country, you can CHOOSE where you want to live.... OTOH I would like the freedom to put trolley tracks and railroad signals in front of my house and turn the garage into a replica of a subway station if I so desire. Well...then you shouldn't have moved to such a community that you know would not allow that before you moved in!!!* (Rhetorical, I don't know whether you live in such a community). |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 15:13:34 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 14:58:19 2007. That's different...that's not government. Anyone living there knew about the rules that were in effect before they decided to buy in those communities. Remember, it's a free country, you can CHOOSE where you want to live....But there are more and more of those all the time. In some metro areas it's becoming so that you have a choice of living in such a community or living in a hovel. And this reminds me: STREET HIERARCHIES SUCK ASS! GRIDS FOREVER! |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Mon Sep 10 15:36:35 2007, in response to Re: More insane laws, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 10 14:44:04 2007. Nobody's perceft. |
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