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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Aug 20 09:22:43 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 20 09:11:58 2014. And of course Nilet leaves out about Egypt isolating Gaza and preventing its residents from going to Egypt |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 20 09:46:48 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 20 08:24:24 2014. There's English, and I don't know enough French to be able to determine if you copied and pasted from Google or not. I'm not going to get myself involved in matters where I know I don't know what I'm talking about. My French is limited to a few key phrases that have been just enough to get people in Montreal, Belgium, France, and Switzerland to speak to me in a language that I do speak. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 20 09:49:59 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 20 08:24:24 2014. The first 3 sentences look fine. The last sentence looks like Google translate having a bad day. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Aug 20 13:02:28 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 20 01:24:09 2014. You're insane. Completely insane. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 20 13:03:34 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Aug 20 13:02:28 2014. +∞ |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Aug 20 13:06:16 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 20 09:12:14 2014. Like a mofo. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 20 13:08:34 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 20 09:12:14 2014. On his elbows? |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Aug 20 13:30:23 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Aug 20 13:02:28 2014. iawtlp |
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Re: Questions Olog Can't Answer |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 20 19:28:35 2014, in response to Re: Question 11 An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 20 09:07:22 2014. Once again, you still haven't answered the question, so it remains on the list of Questions Olog Can't Answer. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 20 19:28:37 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 20 09:12:14 2014. Minimum of 10 cities per trip, minimum of 5 countries (or states, provinces, or oblasts for big countries) and traveling in first class on any trip longer than 4 hours. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 20 19:28:40 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 20 09:11:58 2014. A good chunk of that is simply not true. The blockade existed prior to 2007 (in fact, under international law, there's little distinction between the official occupation that ended in 2005 and the de facto occupation thereafter) and Israel damn well does indiscriminately shoot at schools, mosques, and hospitals— they just declare them "military targets" first and pretend that somehow changes anything.If Gaza unilaterally disarmed, they'd end up like the West Bank— natives living in fear of encroaching Israeli "settlers," second-class citizens in an apartheid state behind a wall. And claiming Gaza is at fault for being deliberately impoverished by Israel is both disgusting victim-blaming and a basic failure of causality— Gaza only considered electing Hamas because Hamas was the only entity providing the vital services that Israel was cutting off. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 20 19:28:43 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Aug 20 09:22:43 2014. Egypt isn't currently blockading Gaza, so this is yet another red herring.That said, it's a lot easier to cross the border into Egypt than into Israel. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 21 10:52:35 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 20 19:28:40 2014. A good chunk of that is simply not true.Correct, if the word that refers to what you wrote. The blockade existed prior to 2007 (in fact, under international law, there's little distinction between the official occupation that ended in 2005 and the de facto occupation thereafter) I can't find the MFA fact sheet on this right now and had to settle for this, but history and international law simply aren't on your side. The fact you conveniently ignore Egypt's blockade of Gaza is also very telling. Israel damn well does indiscriminately shoot at schools, mosques, and hospitals— they just declare them "military targets" first and pretend that somehow changes anything. Proff? If a Hamas militant is using the land next to a school, mosque, or hospital as a launching ground for rockets, or storing them in the aforementioned school, mosque, or hospital, how is that building not a military target? If Gaza unilaterally disarmed, they'd end up like the West Bank— natives living in fear of encroaching Israeli "settlers," second-class citizens in an apartheid state behind a wall. Incorrect. Most Israelis favor the creation of an independent Palestinian state. Most independent states have established borders that must be crossed at designated locations. It isn't unreasonable to expect that a Palestinian state would have that sort of arrangement with Israel. Which is it going to be? Israel takes steps to make an independent state and rid itself of the burden of having millions of people that Israel doesn't want in its state and who don't want to be in Israel, or Israel heads on a path to suppressing a minority population that supposedly wants a state but never takes the chance to create one on its own? You can't have it both ways. And claiming Gaza is at fault for being deliberately impoverished by Israel is both disgusting victim-blaming and a basic failure of causality— Gaza only considered electing Hamas because Hamas was the only entity providing the vital services that Israel was cutting off. The Palestinian people have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. They are political pawns, used by the rest of the Arab world (and by naive morons such as yourself) in an ongoing campaign to legitimize Israel with the outlandish notion that someday, they will succeed. You only further their plight by "supporting" them in the name of being anti-war. If this was the punishment for not fully supporting the governing power where I lived, I might vote for it too, even if I didn't want to. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 21 10:54:15 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 20 19:28:43 2014. The governing power in the Gaza Strip begs to differ with you |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 21 18:31:01 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 21 10:52:35 2014. I can't find the MFA fact sheet on this right now and had to settle for this, but history and international law simply aren't on your side.Ah yes, you had to "settle" for an unreliable and biased source. I wonder why. The fact you conveniently ignore Egypt's blockade of Gaza is also very telling. Ah yes, it's "very telling" that I "ignore" something completely unrelated to the topic at hand. Are you seriously claiming that Egypt is launching rockets into Gaza on a regular basis? Attacking ships bringing in supplies? Shooting anyone who tries to leave Gaza by sea? No? Then what "blockade" are you talking about? Proff? If a Hamas militant is using the land next to a school, mosque, or hospital as a launching ground for rockets, or storing them in the aforementioned school, mosque, or hospital, how is that building not a military target? By that logic, anything an IDF member is in or adjacent to is also a military target. Nice to see you agree with me, though— Israel does, in fact, attack civilians, they just declare them "military targets" first due to the possible presence of one dude who may be a militant. Incorrect. Most Israelis favor the creation of an independent Palestinian state. Most independent states have established borders that must be crossed blah blah blah blah None of this actually addresses my point, that if Gaza unilaterally disarmed without a peace agreement with Israel, they'd end up like the West Bank— an apartheid state with native Gazans living in fear of encroaching Israeli "settlers." The Palestinian people have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. The Palestinian people haven't been given all that many opportunities to miss. You only further their plight by "supporting" them in the name of being anti-war. Oh right, you essentially want them wiped out but I'm hurting them by opposing that. If this was the punishment for not fully supporting the governing power where I lived, I might vote for it too, even if I didn't want to. That was published today. It's a bit late to apply to 2005. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 21 18:31:25 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 21 10:54:15 2014. Oh, so suddenly you're taking what Hamas says at face value? |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 21 18:40:59 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 21 18:31:01 2014. The blockade of Gaza is not limited to the seas. Egypt shares only a land border with Gaza, but it places the same sorts of limits on the movement of both people and supplies through the Rafah Crossing that Israel places at Kerem Shalom. Where is your thread to condemn the Egyptian blockade of Gaza?Per international law, Israel's blockade of Gaza, while perhaps draconian at times in what it restricts, is legal. IDF soldiers don't conduct military operations from civilian areas, that is the difference between the IDF and Hamas. And the "possible presence of a militant dude" isn't just possible, those militants are in fact there. If you fail to realize the difference between how the IDF and Hamas operate, you just prove yet again you've been duped by Hamas and "anti-war" activists to promoting the side that is very much not anti-war. You have yet to prove to me (or anyone else) that if Gaza demilitarized that Israel would immediately resettle it. I expect to be waiting a long time for that one. The Palestinian have had lots of opportunities since the UN Partition Plan was rejected in 1947. Open a history book some time and read it. You might be surprised at what you find. Please find the posts where I advocate for the genocide of the Palestinian people. And if you think Hamas's SOP vis a vis dissidents have changed in the past 9 years, I have a bridge to sell you. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 21 18:43:49 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 21 18:31:25 2014. And the Egyptians and the Israelis (and the usually anti-Israel Wikipedia). The only person who seems to believe there is no Egyptian blockade of Gaza is you. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 21 19:18:57 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 21 18:40:59 2014. The blockade of Gaza is not limited to the seas. Egypt shares only a land border with Gaza, but it places the same sorts of limits on the movement of both people and supplies through the Rafah Crossing that Israel places at Kerem Shalom. Where is your thread to condemn the Egyptian blockade of Gaza?Are you seriously pretending you don't understand the difference between a nation controlling its own borders and a nation controlling someone else's borders? Egypt places restrictions on who can enter Egypt. I disagree with that, but it's not exactly uncommon. Israel places restrictions on who can enter or leave Gaza, which I also disagree with and is not commonplace. Per international law, Israel's blockade of Gaza, while perhaps draconian at times in what it restricts, is legal. Here comes this lame excuse again. At least you're willing to admit that Israel is, in fact, blockading Gaza and that Gaza is, in fact, kept impoverished as a result of this blockade. IDF soldiers don't conduct military operations from civilian areas, that is the difference between the IDF and Hamas. No, but IDF soldiers enter civilian areas, which makes those areas "military targets" by Israel's logic. Although frankly, if your argument is "we aren't worse than Hamas," you might as well give up. And the "possible presence of a militant dude" isn't just possible, those militants are in fact there. Way to miss the point. So a hospital or a crowded mosque becomes a "military target" by the presence of one dude? You have yet to prove to me (or anyone else) that if Gaza demilitarized that Israel would immediately resettle it. Take a look at the West Bank sometime. If you can't see it, then you're blind. The Palestinian have had lots of opportunities since the UN Partition Plan was rejected in 1947. Open a history book some time and read it. You might be surprised at what you find. I recommend that you do the same. You might be surprised at what you find. I also recommend you pay attention to current affairs, since you seem to love dredging up ancient history to justify current oppression. What happened in 1947 that justifies the death of someone born in 2002? Please find the posts where I advocate for the genocide of the Palestinian people. Fine, you only want Palestinians to be kept in the historical definition of a concentration camp rather than the post-1940s euphemism "concentration camp" which isn't actually much of an improvement. And if you think Hamas's SOP vis a vis dissidents have changed in the past 9 years, I have a bridge to sell you. If you think Hamas took power by retroactively using the power they had after they took it to coerce people into giving it to them in the first place, then I'd like to take your time machine out for a spin. Hamas is not Lord English. They cannot retroactively arrange the circumstances of their own creation. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 21 19:20:33 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 21 18:43:49 2014. OK, if you're accusing Wikipedia of being "anti-Israel" then you're clearly an extremist and I'm not sure it's worth my time trying to continue this "debate." |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Aug 24 21:49:11 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 21 19:20:33 2014. Wikipedia often has an anti-Israel bent to it. Is it really necessary to ask a friend of mine as part of his application to be an admin on the site if his being Jewish might affect his ability to be impartial on subjects pertaining to Israel? |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Aug 24 22:09:43 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 21 19:18:57 2014. Israel places restrictions on who can enter or leave Gaza, which I also disagree with and is not commonplace. Israel disengaged from Gaza and has created a Palestinian enclave in Gaza. Please explain to me the difference in the crossing between Gaza and Egypt (where Egypt supposedly limits only entry) and Gaza and Israel (where Israel supposedly limits both exits from Gaza and entry in to Israel)? Do you realize that someone who is permitted to leave Gaza but denied entry to Egypt is also being barred from leaving Gaza? It appears YOU are the one who doesn't understand the situation at hand in this circumstance. At least you're willing to admit that Israel is, in fact, blockading Gaza and that Gaza is, in fact, kept impoverished as a result of this blockade. Hamas is impoverishing the citizens of Gaza by diverting humanitarian supplies from the civilian population to wage terror attacks on Israel. Israel is merely defending its citizens, as any other nation would. No country is going to allow shipments of weapons in to a territory that it shares a border with so that those shipments can be returned to the first country in the form of missiles and rockets. Again, do you not understand which party is to blame in this instance? No, but IDF soldiers enter civilian areas, which makes those areas "military targets" by Israel's logic. When the IDF enter civilian areas to conduct operations in the area bordering Gaza, citizens are evacuated from the military zone. When Hamas sets up shop IN A HOSPITAL, the civilians remain in the same hospital. Exactly how you expect Israel to take out the Hamas operatives when they are nestled among civilians in that manner? Once again, do you not see the difference between how the IDF shields civilians while Hamas hides behind civilians? So a hospital or a crowded mosque becomes a "military target" by the presence of one dude? Correct. Collateral damage is an unfortunate cost of waging war. Israel still attempts to minimize such collateral damage. Hamas could care less. Take a look at the West Bank sometime. If you can't see it, then you're blind. Most Israelis oppose the establishment of tiny settler outposts that use up significant IDF resources in order to secure those outposts. Most Israelis expect that small settlements (accounting for significant territory in the future Palestinian state) will be evacuated as part of a peace agreement with the Palestinians. I also recommend you pay attention to current affairs, since you seem to love dredging up ancient history to justify current oppression. What happened in 1947 that justifies the death of someone born in 2002? I'm trying not to laugh too hard at the fact YOU are telling ME to pay more attention to history when you claim that historical events dating back over three millennia are not relevant to the current conflict. Ancient history is why the Jews stake a claim to modern-day Israel. To deny that history is to deny the Jewish people a right to their homeland. Fine, you only want Palestinians to be kept in the historical definition of a concentration camp rather than the post-1940s euphemism "concentration camp" which isn't actually much of an improvement. You'd have to pay far more attention to what I actually say to know what I truly think. You missed the mark by a long shot, however. If you think Hamas took power by retroactively using the power they had after they took it to coerce people into giving it to them in the first place, then I'd like to take your time machine out for a spin. If you think Hamas tactics suddenly changed in 2007, you're dead wrong, no pun intended. You seem to have no clue how Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, and other similar organizations operate. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 24 23:48:19 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Aug 24 22:09:43 2014. Israel disengaged from Gaza and has created a Palestinian enclave in Gaza....that they don't let anybody leave. Please explain to me the difference in the crossing between Gaza and Egypt (where Egypt supposedly limits only entry) and Gaza and Israel (where Israel supposedly limits both exits from Gaza and entry in to Israel)? Do you realize that someone who is permitted to leave Gaza but denied entry to Egypt is also being barred from leaving Gaza? It appears YOU are the one who doesn't understand the situation at hand in this circumstance. Come on, seriously? Do I really need to explain this to you? There are four ways out of Gaza— into Egypt, into Israel, into the Mediterranean, and into the air. Egypt restricts the first, just like every other country. Israel restricts the second, just like every other country. However, Israel also restricts the third and fourth. Often violently. Can you name any other country that prevents people from leaving by air or sea? That's not the same thing as merely restricting access to one's own borders. Right now, a Gazan who has permission from Italy to travel to Italy by sea or permission from Argentina to travel to Argentina by air is unable to do so without permission from Israel despite the fact that they will not be entering Israel at any point. Hamas is impoverishing the citizens of Gaza by diverting humanitarian supplies from the civilian population to wage terror attacks on Israel. That's as maybe, but it doesn't change the fact of what Israel is doing. Even Henry steals your car and then Irene burns down your house, you're worse off for Irene's actions regardless of Henry, and Henry's actions don't justify what Irene did. Israel is merely defending its citizens, as any other nation would. This again? Israel is the aggressor. It's not self-defense if you attacked first. No country is going to allow shipments of weapons in to a territory that it shares a border with so that those shipments can be returned to the first country in the form of missiles and rockets. The problem is that they define approximately everything as a "weapon," leaving Gaza unable to access vital supplies. Again, do you not understand which party is to blame in this instance? I do, but you apparently don't. When the IDF enter civilian areas to conduct operations in the area bordering Gaza, citizens are evacuated from the military zone. When Hamas sets up shop IN A HOSPITAL, the civilians remain in the same hospital. This really shows your blind spot re: Israel/Palestine. Israel is wonderful because when they conduct military operations, they move citizens elsewhere. Gaza is evil because when they conduct military operations, they don't have anywhere else to move their citizens because Gaza is tiny and is basically a prison that no one is allowed to leave without special permission from Israel. Exactly how you expect Israel to take out the Hamas operatives when they are nestled among civilians in that manner? Perhaps by some means other than launching giant bombs at the hospital and declaring that God will sort the dead? Once again, do you not see the difference between how the IDF shields civilians while Hamas hides behind civilians? Once again, do you not see that Israel is a military superpower and Gaza is basically a concentration camp (pre-1940s definition)? Hamas "hides" in civilian areas because there is literally nowhere else that they can physically go. You can't force someone into a tiny room full of people and then blame them for crowding the other people there. Correct. Collateral damage is an unfortunate cost of waging war. When you deliberately aim at civilians, it's not "collateral damage." It's a war crime. Israel still attempts to minimize such collateral damage. That's bullshit and everybody knows it. Most Israelis oppose the establishment of tiny settler outposts that use up significant IDF resources in order to secure those outposts. Most Israelis expect that small settlements (accounting for significant territory in the future Palestinian state) will be evacuated as part of a peace agreement with the Palestinians. Most Israelis this and most Israelis that, but the settlements are still standing and the natives of the West Bank are still second class citizens in an apartheid state behind a wall. I'm trying not to laugh too hard at the fact YOU are telling ME to pay more attention to history when you claim that historical events dating back over three millennia are not relevant to the current conflict. Three millennia??! It was ridiculous enough when you were claiming the events of the early 20th century were directly relevant to the conflict. Ancient history is why the Jews stake a claim to modern-day Israel. Come on, there's a statute of limitations on calling something your "homeland." Why should the people living there today be shoved aside to make way for people who have some tenuous ancestral connection that predates the Roman Empire? I had ancestors in England, Germany, and Poland within the last few hundred years, but I doubt any of those countries would let me in if I claimed "right of return." And what about all the people who lived in present-day Israel between then and now? Or before the Jews showed up? To deny that history is to deny the Jewish people a right to their homeland. My homeland is on the other side of the planet from Israel— as is yours, since we've heard you're an immigrant to Israel. I have ancestors I can name from a wide range of countries— England, Germany, and Poland, sure, but quite a few others as well. I don't feel any sense of ancestral connection to them, and that was three or four generations ago. I certainly don't feel any sense of ancestral connection to a place so distant that the ancestors who lived there wouldn't register as relatives on a genetic test. So tell me— is there something specific about the three thousand year timeframe, or does any country an ancestor of yours lived in count as your "homeland?" Does it apply to everyone or just Jews? What about converts? If someone can trace a few thousand years of Icelandic ancestry but then converts to Judaism, does Israel become his homeland? What about someone with clear Jewish ancestry, but only on his father's side? Or does it depend on whether his father is Orthodox or Reform? You'd have to pay far more attention to what I actually say to know what I truly think. You missed the mark by a long shot, however. Oh, so you believe that Israel should end the blockade/occupation and make a serious attempt to negotiate for peace? Or maybe Israel should just annex Gaza, give the Gazans full Israeli citizenship, and boot Hamas? Wasn't really getting that vibe from your posts. If you think Hamas tactics suddenly changed in 2007, you're dead wrong, no pun intended. You seem to have no clue how Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, and other similar organizations operate. So would you care to explain what tactics Hamas was using before they existed? |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 25 15:53:56 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 24 23:48:19 2014. ...that they don't let anybody leave. It isn't Israel's problem if Egypt enacts its own blockade in accordance with their own national interests. Let's be fair and if you are going to criticize Israel for its blockade, also make sure to criticize Egypt for doing the same. The fact you continue to claim that somehow the blockades are different shows your biases and true colors. There are four ways out of Gaza— into Egypt, into Israel, into the Mediterranean, and into the air. Egypt restricts the first, just like every other country. Israel restricts the second, just like every other country. However, Israel also restricts the third and fourth. Often violently. Can you name any other country that prevents people from leaving by air or sea? That's not the same thing as merely restricting access to one's own borders. Right now, a Gazan who has permission from Italy to travel to Italy by sea or permission from Argentina to travel to Argentina by air is unable to do so without permission from Israel despite the fact that they will not be entering Israel at any point. Gaza doesn't have an airport or a seaport, so it is necessary for all Gazans to travel either via Egypt or Israel to go anywhere else in the world. Again, Israel is not solely responsible for the fact that Gazans have to do this, and Israel should be under no additional obligation to provide this to Gaza when compared to Egypt. I'd be willing to bet most Gazans would rather travel via Egypt, anyway. Very few countries or territories in the world have no airport, so this is a bit of an unusual circumstance. I'm not familiar enough with the tactical decisions as to why the IDF chose to bomb the Gaza Airport during the Second Intifada, but it seems reasonable that a country might respond that way in response to terrorist attacks against its civilian population. (As an aside, if the Palestinians don't start the Intifada in 2000, perhaps there wouldn't be a need for the Security Fence in the West Bank that you bemoan all the time. There is a very strong correlation between the frequency of terrorist attacks against Israelis and the construction of the wall. I'm not saying the wall needed to run through people's olive groves, but building it was not a mistake.) Vis a vis the seaport and naval blockade, Gaza has never had a proper seaport, although they would like to build one. While there is only one other naval blockade in use right now (Armenia has been blockaded by sea since 1988), there have been plenty of other, shorter naval blockades in recent years against Taiwan, Yugoslavia, Croatia, Iraq, and other nations. Egypt blockaded the Straits of Tiran and Israel in 1973, so it isn't like Israel hasn't been blockaded itself. Your unrelenting criticism of Israel's blockade in light of the fact that other countries do this too does little to suggest that your issues are closed borders and people's predisposition to fight wars. That's as maybe, but it doesn't change the fact of what Israel is doing. Even Henry steals your car and then Irene burns down your house, you're worse off for Irene's actions regardless of Henry, and Henry's actions don't justify what Irene did. Yes it does. If the supplies were used for their intended purposes, Israel would be happy to send them in and the Gazans would be happy to receive them. You fail to see what role Hamas has in this mess and why Israel is not going to engage in any policy other than one that protects its self interests, just like any other country would. The problem is Hamas, not Israel. And your problem is that you fail, time and time again, to see that Hamas is the aggressor and at fault for much of what is going on in Gaza, not Israel, and then you promote policies that would put Israel and the values you supposedly stand for in extremely grave danger. This again? Israel is the aggressor. It's not self-defense if you attacked first. Open a history book, read about the events of May 1947, and see who attacked first. It wasn't Israel. The problem is that they define approximately everything as a "weapon," leaving Gaza unable to access vital supplies. Because Hamas finds ways to use lots of conventional items (i.e. ketchup) as weapons (i.e. fake blood for the propaganda that you fall for on a regular basis). Gaza is evil because when they conduct military operations, they don't have anywhere else to move their citizens because Gaza is tiny and is basically a prison that no one is allowed to leave without special permission from Israel. There are many open spaces in Gaza that Hamas could operate from and chooses not to, putting civilians at risk. So Hamas does have somewhere to go. If you truly cared about the Palestinian civilians, you would speak up against the egregious violation of international law that Hamas has engaged in since the moment they took control of Gaza. Perhaps by some means other than launching giant bombs at the hospital and declaring that God will sort the dead? What other means would those be? Sending in ground troops? That doesn't end well for anyone. The truth of the matter is you have no suggestion in response to this that doesn't result in Hamas continuing to oppress innocent Gazans while firing rockets at Israeli civilians. Once again, do you not see that Israel is a military superpower and Gaza is basically a concentration camp (pre-1940s definition)? Gaza could have been an economic powerhouse and a model to the West Bank of how an independent Palestinian state could thrive if Israel wasn't present on its territory. The Palestinians blew it up, literally, destroying all the infrastructure Israel left them to start their independent economy. Hamas "hides" in civilian areas because there is literally nowhere else that they can physically go. You can't force someone into a tiny room full of people and then blame them for crowding the other people there. See above. When you deliberately aim at civilians, it's not "collateral damage." It's a war crime. Was the US threatened with charges at the ICC for war crimes when errant bombs dropped in Afghanistan and Iraq? That's bullshit and everybody knows it. No it isn't. It's the truth and only anti-Israel and anti-Zionist, "anti-war" types can't see it, lest they bring themselves to realize that Israel isn't the problem in Gaza. Most Israelis this and most Israelis that, but the settlements are still standing and the natives of the West Bank are still second class citizens in an apartheid state behind a wall. The settlements will disappear when a peaceful, independent Palestinian state can be established. The chances of that happening now just took a big hit, since Hamas managed to fire a rocket at Yahud and shut down Ben Gurion Airport. Few Israelis even want to discuss giving up the West Bank right now. Again, the Palestinians have missed an opportunity for themselves by stalling in the recent round of peace negotiations instead of taking them seriously. If they wanted a state, they could have had it a long time ago. If they are continuing to fight for Israel's destruction and are unwilling to settle for anything less than that, they aren't going to win that battle any time soon. If you want to get your neighbor to make huge concessions, you need to build trust. Israel has been waiting for 66 years for a legitimate peace partner to come forward to resolve this conflict, and while it waits, the Palestinians and Arabs have started wars and intifadas. Not a real recipe for a lasting peace. You sure you want to blame Israel for that? It was ridiculous enough when you were claiming the events of the early 20th century were directly relevant to the conflict. Here we go again. If you don't understand where the origins of this situation truly date back to, you shouldn't bother replying to this post, or anything else Israel related untiil you do. Come on, there's a statute of limitations on calling something your "homeland." Why should the people living there today be shoved aside to make way for people who have some tenuous ancestral connection that predates the Roman Empire? Because the statue of limitations doesn't run out when you have a continuous presence in the land, and the "ancestral connection" isn't tenuous. Archeological remains have shown a constant, Jewish presence throughout modern-day Israel for thousands of years. Do you have any idea when the Palestinians came about? (Here's a hint, many of them deny the existence of the Jewish temples in Jerusalem, and their leaders often condone illegal digs that destroy archeological evidence of a Jewish presence on the land.) I had ancestors in England, Germany, and Poland within the last few hundred years, but I doubt any of those countries would let me in if I claimed "right of return." You ought to look up the citizenship laws for those countries. You might be surprised at what you find. And what about all the people who lived in present-day Israel between then and now? You're confusing me with Olog and CMM. They can stay, and they've been offered a state of their own, but they have rejected each and every proposal, preferring to go to war or to launch terror attacks against Israel instead. Or before the Jews showed up? The Jews showed up when Abraham arrived from Ur-Kasdim. They haven't really left since then. My homeland is on the other side of the planet from Israel— as is yours, since we've heard you're an immigrant to Israel. My home is wherever I happen to be. Are you saying that no immigrant can claim a connection to his or her new homeland? That sounds like something CMM would say. Who is the extremist now? I certainly don't feel any sense of ancestral connection to a place so distant that the ancestors who lived there wouldn't register as relatives on a genetic test. I can pass that test. I'm a many times great-grandson of Aaron the priest, Moses's brother, and a blood test can do a damn good job of providing evidence of that. So tell me— is there something specific about the three thousand year timeframe, or does any country an ancestor of yours lived in count as your "homeland?" Does it apply to everyone or just Jews? What about converts? If someone can trace a few thousand years of Icelandic ancestry but then converts to Judaism, does Israel become his homeland? What about someone with clear Jewish ancestry, but only on his father's side? Or does it depend on whether his father is Orthodox or Reform? Your hatred of organized religion is quite clear here, you don't need to remind us of it all the time. A homeland is the concept of the place (cultural geography) with which an ethnic group holds a long history and a deep cultural association, or the country in which a particular national identity began. Israel meets the criteria as set forth by this definition for all Jews, including converts and those who are Jewish through patrilinial descent. In fact, the State of Israel's own immigration policies confirm that. You're blinded by your own biases so much it isn't even funny anymore. Oh, so you believe that Israel should end the blockade/occupation and make a serious attempt to negotiate for peace? Or maybe Israel should just annex Gaza, give the Gazans full Israeli citizenship, and boot Hamas? Wasn't really getting that vibe from your posts. I believe the Palestinians should make a sincere and serious effort at negotiating with Israel, and they might find their lives drastically improved. I wouldn't have voted for Likud and there are times I have questioned Bibi's commitment to the two state solution (lately he seems to think it isn't happening any time soon, but I don't blame him for that in light of recent events, and you shouldn't either), but I believe he has done things in the hopes of reaching a peace agreement with the Palestinians, and Abu Mazen has dawdled each and every time Obama has forced Bibi to make concessions to his coalition and supporters in the name of reaching a final agreement. The world should be extremely upset with Fatah for failing to show up to the negotiations in 2010 for the first 9 months of the settlement freeze that Netanyahu took huge political risks to enact. It should be no surprise to anyone that after refusing to negotiate for much of that time, there was no willingness by Israel to extend that freeze. There is lots of blame to go around with regard to this mess over the years, and yes, some of it falls on Israel, but not in the proportion that you insist it does. So would you care to explain what tactics Hamas was using before they existed? You think Hamas just sprung up in 2007? Seriously Nilet, each time you post you make yourself look even more foolish. I strongly suggest you actually read what I have to say and read some history books and get a better understanding of what has happened in the Middle East in the past and what is going on today. What you claim to know is filled with so much bullshit in the form of anti-Semitic and anti-Israel propaganda in the name of being "anti-war" that you have no idea what mess you've gotten yourself in to. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Aug 25 16:07:45 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 25 15:53:56 2014. What is your opinion of Pamela Geller? |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 25 17:54:59 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Aug 25 16:07:45 2014. The Jews and Israel need some moderate Arabs and Muslims as part of their base of support. Pamela Geller is so extreme she drives nearly anyone who could potentially be a part of that base away. Jihadism is a problem, but Pamela Geller doesn't exactly help it with her own extreme rhetoric. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 25 18:14:34 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 25 17:54:59 2014. Pamela Geller is so extreme she drives nearly anyone who could potentially be a part of that base awayJust how? And where are these alleged "moderate Arabs/Muslims" and why have they not spoken out in seventy years? |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Gamera on Mon Aug 25 18:35:56 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 25 15:53:56 2014. A very well written and detailed response. Too bad that it will probably fall on deaf ears. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 25 23:17:28 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 25 18:14:34 2014. They are out there, perhaps not as numerous as they would be ideally, but Pamela Geller doesn't help them to come out of the woodwork. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Aug 26 20:07:52 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Gamera on Mon Aug 25 18:35:56 2014. 
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Aug 26 20:08:59 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 25 15:53:56 2014. Sigh, here we go again.A mixture of outright lies (like claiming Gaza doesn't have an airport) and mutilated half-truths (claiming Israel is not the aggressor; implying that Gaza's coastline is somehow impossible to navigate), spiced up with occasional lapses of logic where you spew complete and utter nonsense. I can't be bothered to write out yet another futile rebuttal that will go right in one ear and out the other. Maybe some other time. Right now, I'll just dissect some of the most egregious lapses of reason. Because the statue of limitations doesn't run out when you have a continuous presence in the land, and the "ancestral connection" isn't tenuous. Archeological remains have shown a constant, Jewish presence throughout modern-day Israel for thousands of years. A homeland is the concept of the place (cultural geography) with which an ethnic group holds a long history and a deep cultural association, or the country in which a particular national identity began. Israel meets the criteria as set forth by this definition for all Jews, including converts and those who are Jewish through patrilinial descent. You contradicted yourself. First you claim "right of return" is based on ancestry and descent, then you claim that anybody can claim right of return based on converting. I'm pretty sure you can't "convert" to a different ancestry. If you could, I'd claim a bunch of tax breaks by "converting" to First Nations of some sort. The problem here is that you're trying to play a shell game, where Judaism is an ethnicity when it's convenient to claim a land as an "ancestral home," but it's a religion when it comes to conversion. You can't have it both ways. Decide what Judaism is and stick with it. You're confusing me with Olog and CMM. They can stay, and they've been offered a state of their own, but they have rejected each and every proposal, preferring to go to war or to launch terror attacks against Israel instead. This is yet another attempt to claim a double standard— Jews anywhere in the world have an inherent right to move to Israel because of ancestors who lived there three millennia ago, but only Jews have this right. All the other people who can trace ancestry back there within the last 3,000 years need not apply— and you consider yourself gracious for not kicking out the non-Jews currently living there. Let's be fair and if you are going to criticize Israel for its blockade, also make sure to criticize Egypt for doing the same. Except Egypt is not doing the same— a fact you can't seem to wrap your head around even after I explained it in very small words. Because Hamas finds ways to use lots of conventional items (i.e. ketchup) as weapons (i.e. fake blood for the propaganda that you fall for on a regular basis). WTF? You can't possibly be serious. It was bad enough when you were claiming that Gaza needed to be forced into poverty because Hamas might use supplies to make weapons, but now you're claiming that Gaza needs to be impoverished because Hamas might use vital supplies as props in a video??! Even ignoring the fact that you seem to have this paranoid conspiracy theory that I watch propaganda from Hamas, do you seriously fail to understand the difference between a weapon and a stage prop? I'd love to see you explain to a Gazan child why he has to starve because giving him food might help a bad man say things you don't like. If you truly cared about the Palestinian civilians, you would speak up against the egregious violation of international law that Hamas has engaged in since the moment they took control of Gaza. (Armenia has been blockaded by sea since 1988), there have been plenty of other, shorter naval blockades in recent years against Taiwan, Yugoslavia, Croatia, Iraq, and other nations. Egypt blockaded the Straits of Tiran and Israel in 1973, so it isn't like Israel hasn't been blockaded itself. Your unrelenting criticism of Israel's blockade in light of the fact that other countries do this too does little to suggest that your issues are closed borders and people's predisposition to fight wars. This is just more rehashing of the tired old red herring you like to use— in a discussion about Israel, I criticise something Israel did, and you respond by pointing to some other country on the other side of the planet who did it too, and claim that since I didn't denounce them, in this thread, apropos of nothing, I must necessarily endorse their actions, making me a hypocrite by denouncing Israel for same. This time around, I'll remind you that by your own argument, you endorse the Holocaust, since you didn't denounce it in this thread, but since logic won't penetrate your skull, I might respond to similar use of the tactic by simply posting my picture of a red herring in the future. I can pass that test. I'm a many times great-grandson of Aaron the priest, Moses's brother, and a blood test can do a damn good job of providing evidence of that. Ah, a blood test will do "a damn good job" of proving that you are a direct descendent of a mythical figure who never actually existed. I think this tells me all I need to know about your competence and your qualifications to speak on this issue. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 27 23:53:19 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Tue Aug 26 20:08:59 2014. Gaza does not have a functioning airport. If you consider a runway strip with no functioning terminal and no passenger services to be an airport, that's fine. But that's not an airport in the minds of most people.As for your claim that I'm flipflopping, putting Jews in a single box as being an ethnic group, a religious group, or even a race as some hae tried to do over the years is impossible. Your constant attempts to do so say a lot about you. Converts fall in under having the same national identity, and converting to Judaism is not that easy, so it isn't like a ton of people can just become Jewish overnight and emigrate to Israel. Jews come from such diverse backgrounds you can't fit them in to a single ethnic group, and they most definitely aren't a race. Why shouldn't there be a country for all of them? There is no double-standard, you're just pissed that Israel doesn't have open borders and object to religious beliefs as being part of the criteria for emigration purposes. Egypt is blockading Gaza. Get over it. I have never claimed that Gaza needs to be forced in to poverty. Hamas needs to be eliminated for the sake not only of the Israelis but also the Gazans who you care about so much. And you're clearly a victim of Hamas propaganda, your posts are evidence of that. Ask me to speak out about human rights abuses around the world in other countries and I'd be happy to do so. There are people who have it far worse than the Palestinians, whether in the West Bank or Gaza, but the world is extremely concerned about the situation in Israel while the camps in North Korea, the massacres in Syria, and the rights of women in Saudi Arabia (among other places) go largely unnoticed by the rest of the world. That isn't to say that Israel is perfect, it isn't. But the world (and you, by extension) spends way too much time going after a small problem when there are much larger ones out there. Your comparison about the Holocaust is utter bullshit and you know it. If you could manage a normal conversation, perhaps you'd realize how wrong you are about these issues, how much you piss people off because you have no respect, decency, or manners, and what your reputation might be like if you listened to my advice and the advice of others here. You can neither prove nor deny that Aaron (or anyone else in the Bible) was a mythical figure who never actually existed. OTOH, I can prove that I and a whole lot of other people (including some who post on this board) share a common ancestors, so while that person may have not been Aaron as described in the Bible, it gives a whole lot of credence to that theory. You exhibit your lack of competence and qualifications on the issues at hand frequently, but that doesn't stop you from posting. But keep at it, maybe someday you can correct the errors of your ways. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 00:36:31 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 27 23:53:19 2014. Gaza does not have a functioning airport. If you consider a runway strip with no functioning terminal and no passenger services to be an airport, that's fine. But that's not an airport in the minds of most people.It's enough to allow physical departure by air— or it would be, if Israel wasn't blockading Gaza. There was a proper airport too, but Israel destroyed it. Converts fall in under having the same national identity... Bullshit. Your basis for claiming Israel as a homeland is based on ancestry, and you can't "convert" ancestry. Jews come from such diverse backgrounds you can't fit them in to a single ethnic group, and they most definitely aren't a race. Why shouldn't there be a country for all of them? Name the country for atheists, the country for railfans, and the country for fans of Bungie's FPS series Marathon. There is no double-standard, you're just pissed that Israel doesn't have open borders and object to religious beliefs as being part of the criteria for emigration purposes. Or, in other words: There is no double-standard, you're just pissed that Israel has a double standard. Excluding people who don't belong to the "correct" religion is the definition of a double standard. Egypt is blockading Gaza. Get over it. Having run out of arguments, you've got nothing left except to simply reassert your well-debunked claim. If a ship departed Gaza bound for Greece, would the Egyptian navy stop it? I have never claimed that Gaza needs to be forced in to poverty. You've repeatedly claimed it was justified. Hamas needs to be eliminated for the sake not only of the Israelis but also the Gazans who you care about so much. Thank you for pointing that out, Captain Obvious. And you're clearly a victim of Hamas propaganda, your posts are evidence of that. Paranoid conspiracy theory again. Ask me to speak out about human rights abuses around the world in other countries and I'd be happy to do so. There are people who have it far worse than the Palestinians, whether in the West Bank or Gaza, but the world is extremely concerned about the situation in Israel while the camps in North Korea, the massacres in Syria, and the rights of women in Saudi Arabia (among other places) go largely unnoticed by the rest of the world. Ask me to speak out about human rights abuses around the world in other countries and I'd be happy to do so. But you didn't— you claimed the fact that I didn't speak out about them unsolicited in a conversation about a completely different topic necessarily proves I support them. That isn't to say that Israel is perfect, it isn't. Indeed. But the world (and you, by extension) spends way too much time going after a small problem when there are much larger ones out there. Exactly how much time do you think I spend going after Israel? Your comparison about the Holocaust is utter bullshit and you know it. If you could blah blah blah blah blah My "comparison about the Holocaust" was a simple reductio ad absurdum which successfully debunked one of the arguments you use repeatedly. I apologise if reading the word "holocaust" causes your brain to shut down. You can neither prove nor deny that Aaron (or anyone else in the Bible) was a mythical figure who never actually existed. ...And here comes the religious bullshit. Let me guess, you also believe rivers turn into blood and frogs have discovered an amazing new method of reproduction? At this point, your credibility is now zero. OTOH, I can prove that I and a whole lot of other people (including some who post on this board) share a common ancestors, so while that person may have not been Aaron as described in the Bible, it gives a whole lot of credence to that theory. Yeah, um, all life on Earth shares a common ancestor. The only theory you've given credence to is evolution, and that one's pretty much settled right now. You exhibit your lack of competence and qualifications on the issues at hand frequently, but that doesn't stop you from posting. But keep at it, maybe someday you can correct the errors of your ways. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 28 00:41:35 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 00:36:31 2014. I'm not out of arguments, you just aren't willing to listen to anything that doesn't line up with your worldview. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 01:06:13 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 28 00:41:35 2014. You're out of arguments because you just aren't willing to listen to anything that doesn't line up with your worldview. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 28 01:32:42 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 01:06:13 2014. I'm quite open minded, believe it or not. I just don't take well to the notion that I should endorse political positions that would almost assuredly end with my death in an absolute worst case scenario. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 03:06:55 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 28 01:32:42 2014. I'm quite open minded, believe it or not.I'mma go with not. When you simply reiterate a position after it's already been debunked, you lose the right to call yourself open-minded. I just don't take well to the notion that I should endorse political positions that would almost assuredly end with my death in an absolute worst case scenario. Then I'm afraid you'll have to abstain from any political involvement, as literally any position will end in your death in an "absolute worst case scenario." In fact, I hate to tell you this, but no matter what you do with regard to politics or anything else, there is a 100% chance that your life will end in your death. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by subfan on Thu Aug 28 04:15:05 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 25 15:53:56 2014. A couple of minor corrections to two of your points:1. Armenia has not had a maritime blockade since 1988, as it is totally landlocked. You are likely thinking of Turkey's refusal to open its land border with Armenia in sympathy with Azerbaijan. 2. Egypt's blockade of the Straits of Tirana (between the southern tip of Sinai and Saudi Arabia) took place in 1967, not 1973. It was considered an act of war, and led directly to the Six Day War. Other than that, a well-written and reasoned post. subfan |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Gamera on Thu Aug 28 08:53:42 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 03:06:55 2014. When you simply reiterate a position after it's already been debunked, you lose the right to call yourself open-minded.Neither you nor anyone else ever "debunked" any of his positions. You just like to bully and insult people into ending their debates with you. You are nothing but an internet bully. By the way read this and maybe you will learn why some of us consider your statements here antisemitic Some highlights of what are considered antisemitic comments: Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations. Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 28 11:07:01 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 03:06:55 2014. Then I'm afraid you'll have to abstain from any political involvement, as literally any position will end in your death in an "absolute worst case scenario." In fact, I hate to tell you this, but no matter what you do with regard to politics or anything else, there is a 100% chance that your life will end in your death. The fact you responded with this demonstrates my point about your abilities to have polite, civil, adult conversation quite clearly. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 28 11:09:55 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by subfan on Thu Aug 28 04:15:05 2014. Thanks for the pointers, I think I got a bit crosseyed when pulling up the list of blockades enacted in recent years against various countries. The 1973 blockade was part of Operation Badr. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 11:35:23 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by subfan on Thu Aug 28 04:15:05 2014. Straits of Tiran. Tirana is the capital of Albania. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by subfan on Thu Aug 28 17:16:08 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 28 11:09:55 2014. OK, I'd need to look that one up. Post-67, any blockade of the Straits of Tiran would have been more difficult on account of Israel being in control of Sinai.subfan |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by subfan on Thu Aug 28 17:18:13 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 11:35:23 2014. Of course - *#!# autocorrect on a smartphone strikes againI'd written Tiran but neglected to check for bad autocorrects before posting. subfan |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 19:27:23 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Gamera on Thu Aug 28 08:53:42 2014. Neither you nor anyone else ever "debunked" any of his positions.Try reading the thread. He insisted Egypt was blockading Gaza; I proved they weren't. You just like to bully and insult people into ending their debates with you. No, I "like" having reasonable debates. It's not my fault that you and WMATA insist on being wrong and irrational. By the way read this and maybe you will learn why some of us consider your statements here antisemitic Some highlights of what are considered antisemitic comments: I read it, and that you think any of those things apply to me says a lot more about you than it does about me. Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations. Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis. Case in point. I've never actually done any of those things. That you think I did says a lot more about you than it does about me— for example, you've repeatedly insisted that I'm guilty of the second one on the grounds that anything short of pronouncing Israel to be perfect in every way constitutes demanding Israel's immediate destruction. This says basically nothing about me, but it says volumes about you— though mostly that you're an extremist and an idiot. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 19:28:58 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Aug 28 11:07:01 2014. The fact that you can't understand sarcasm or think it has no place in polite, civil adult conversation is just the icing on the cake after you've proved yourself completely incapable of having a reasonable debate like an adult. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 2 23:43:14 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 19:28:58 2014. You wouldn't know what adult conversation is, I suggest you don't tell others they are incapable of having one. |
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Sep 3 00:04:34 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 2 23:43:14 2014. Dunning-Kruger bit you too? |
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