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| Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel (1218548) | |||
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Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 24 23:48:19 2014, in response to Re: An Article Worth Reading: Why They Hate Israel, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Aug 24 22:09:43 2014. Israel disengaged from Gaza and has created a Palestinian enclave in Gaza....that they don't let anybody leave. Please explain to me the difference in the crossing between Gaza and Egypt (where Egypt supposedly limits only entry) and Gaza and Israel (where Israel supposedly limits both exits from Gaza and entry in to Israel)? Do you realize that someone who is permitted to leave Gaza but denied entry to Egypt is also being barred from leaving Gaza? It appears YOU are the one who doesn't understand the situation at hand in this circumstance. Come on, seriously? Do I really need to explain this to you? There are four ways out of Gaza— into Egypt, into Israel, into the Mediterranean, and into the air. Egypt restricts the first, just like every other country. Israel restricts the second, just like every other country. However, Israel also restricts the third and fourth. Often violently. Can you name any other country that prevents people from leaving by air or sea? That's not the same thing as merely restricting access to one's own borders. Right now, a Gazan who has permission from Italy to travel to Italy by sea or permission from Argentina to travel to Argentina by air is unable to do so without permission from Israel despite the fact that they will not be entering Israel at any point. Hamas is impoverishing the citizens of Gaza by diverting humanitarian supplies from the civilian population to wage terror attacks on Israel. That's as maybe, but it doesn't change the fact of what Israel is doing. Even Henry steals your car and then Irene burns down your house, you're worse off for Irene's actions regardless of Henry, and Henry's actions don't justify what Irene did. Israel is merely defending its citizens, as any other nation would. This again? Israel is the aggressor. It's not self-defense if you attacked first. No country is going to allow shipments of weapons in to a territory that it shares a border with so that those shipments can be returned to the first country in the form of missiles and rockets. The problem is that they define approximately everything as a "weapon," leaving Gaza unable to access vital supplies. Again, do you not understand which party is to blame in this instance? I do, but you apparently don't. When the IDF enter civilian areas to conduct operations in the area bordering Gaza, citizens are evacuated from the military zone. When Hamas sets up shop IN A HOSPITAL, the civilians remain in the same hospital. This really shows your blind spot re: Israel/Palestine. Israel is wonderful because when they conduct military operations, they move citizens elsewhere. Gaza is evil because when they conduct military operations, they don't have anywhere else to move their citizens because Gaza is tiny and is basically a prison that no one is allowed to leave without special permission from Israel. Exactly how you expect Israel to take out the Hamas operatives when they are nestled among civilians in that manner? Perhaps by some means other than launching giant bombs at the hospital and declaring that God will sort the dead? Once again, do you not see the difference between how the IDF shields civilians while Hamas hides behind civilians? Once again, do you not see that Israel is a military superpower and Gaza is basically a concentration camp (pre-1940s definition)? Hamas "hides" in civilian areas because there is literally nowhere else that they can physically go. You can't force someone into a tiny room full of people and then blame them for crowding the other people there. Correct. Collateral damage is an unfortunate cost of waging war. When you deliberately aim at civilians, it's not "collateral damage." It's a war crime. Israel still attempts to minimize such collateral damage. That's bullshit and everybody knows it. Most Israelis oppose the establishment of tiny settler outposts that use up significant IDF resources in order to secure those outposts. Most Israelis expect that small settlements (accounting for significant territory in the future Palestinian state) will be evacuated as part of a peace agreement with the Palestinians. Most Israelis this and most Israelis that, but the settlements are still standing and the natives of the West Bank are still second class citizens in an apartheid state behind a wall. I'm trying not to laugh too hard at the fact YOU are telling ME to pay more attention to history when you claim that historical events dating back over three millennia are not relevant to the current conflict. Three millennia??! It was ridiculous enough when you were claiming the events of the early 20th century were directly relevant to the conflict. Ancient history is why the Jews stake a claim to modern-day Israel. Come on, there's a statute of limitations on calling something your "homeland." Why should the people living there today be shoved aside to make way for people who have some tenuous ancestral connection that predates the Roman Empire? I had ancestors in England, Germany, and Poland within the last few hundred years, but I doubt any of those countries would let me in if I claimed "right of return." And what about all the people who lived in present-day Israel between then and now? Or before the Jews showed up? To deny that history is to deny the Jewish people a right to their homeland. My homeland is on the other side of the planet from Israel— as is yours, since we've heard you're an immigrant to Israel. I have ancestors I can name from a wide range of countries— England, Germany, and Poland, sure, but quite a few others as well. I don't feel any sense of ancestral connection to them, and that was three or four generations ago. I certainly don't feel any sense of ancestral connection to a place so distant that the ancestors who lived there wouldn't register as relatives on a genetic test. So tell me— is there something specific about the three thousand year timeframe, or does any country an ancestor of yours lived in count as your "homeland?" Does it apply to everyone or just Jews? What about converts? If someone can trace a few thousand years of Icelandic ancestry but then converts to Judaism, does Israel become his homeland? What about someone with clear Jewish ancestry, but only on his father's side? Or does it depend on whether his father is Orthodox or Reform? You'd have to pay far more attention to what I actually say to know what I truly think. You missed the mark by a long shot, however. Oh, so you believe that Israel should end the blockade/occupation and make a serious attempt to negotiate for peace? Or maybe Israel should just annex Gaza, give the Gazans full Israeli citizenship, and boot Hamas? Wasn't really getting that vibe from your posts. If you think Hamas tactics suddenly changed in 2007, you're dead wrong, no pun intended. You seem to have no clue how Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, and other similar organizations operate. So would you care to explain what tactics Hamas was using before they existed? |
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