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| Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling (1077021) | |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by fwt9000 on Sat Jun 29 15:56:03 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Easy on Sat Jun 29 15:35:22 2013. Why only men with many wives?If it is legal then women can have many husbands too Like the hottie I know that lives with and sleeps with two guys at the same time. She may be adding a third one to her stable soon |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 15:57:17 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 14:37:07 2013. Polygamists today live their lifestyles the way they do for the same reason that pre-Stonewall gays lived their lives the way they did.If polygamy becomes legal, it will not be practiced in fundamentalist communes or hippie camps. They will be your neighbors and co-workers. They will be your family members. They will be at your company's Christmas parties. It's not just Mormons and Muslims. They're here. They like beer. Get used to it. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 29 16:02:37 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by fwt9000 on Sat Jun 29 15:56:03 2013. She's going to come to a not-so-pleasant end. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 29 16:06:16 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 29 12:27:38 2013. Search for your posts, Train Dude's posts, and Chicagomotor's posts. You'll find them ...Add a touch of brimstone and heat until done. :) |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by daNd124 on Sat Jun 29 16:09:37 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 15:57:17 2013. SMAZ, i'd like to know what you think about the Zimmerman trail, don't respond here respond in one of the threads. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 16:26:01 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 29 16:02:37 2013. You are blaspheming. Taking upon yourself God's role. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:04:27 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by fwt9000 on Fri Jun 28 21:26:31 2013. That's just your opinion. No one should force anyone into monogamy, or away from it. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:08:04 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by fwt9000 on Fri Jun 28 21:41:32 2013. That "contract" is marriage.Desanctify marriage now! |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by fwt9000 on Sat Jun 29 19:10:30 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:08:04 2013. Desanctify marriage now!We do agree on that anyway |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:10:36 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by bingbong on Fri Jun 28 22:27:15 2013. That's just your opinion. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by fwt9000 on Sat Jun 29 19:12:37 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by bingbong on Fri Jun 28 21:58:50 2013. What if two bi men want to have a woman in the mix or two bi girls want to marry each other as well as their male lovers?Why do you oppose the right of bisexuals to have one of each partner? |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:14:30 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 29 07:21:12 2013. LOL! |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:15:49 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by fwt9000 on Sat Jun 29 19:10:30 2013. I agree with you on allowing polygamy, I just disagree that monogamy is dead. Let different people decide for themselves what they want. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:26:42 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 02:43:59 2013. Me too. And at the time you didn't consider it a prejudice, did you?And even when I first believed in same sex marriage, I didn't consider it a right, I considered it a matter for the legislature. I now consider it a fundamental right. I consider all state constitutional amendments restricting marriage to one man and one woman to be unconstitutional under the standard in Romer v. Evans. It is not a matter of if we will have nationwide same-sex marriage, it is a matter of when. The so-called "family values" conservatives can choke on their sanctimony. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by daNd124 on Sat Jun 29 19:31:00 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 16:26:01 2013. he's just trying to keep up with scrabbleship |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 19:35:31 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:26:42 2013. It is not a matter of if we will have nationwide same-sex marriage, it is a matter of whenI think it will happen in your lifetime but not in mine. A few of the current Supreme Court liberals are afraid of another partially unaccepted decision along the lines of Roe v Wade. The open matter in my mind is whether they will make all states recognize other states' gay marriages. But I expect gay marriage in WY to arrive in about 2050. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:41:02 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 19:35:31 2013. I think it will happen during the 2020s. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 29 19:44:14 2013, in response to Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 28 10:25:05 2013. I guess the Polygamists have a good argument.But people who bring up bestiality, incest and pedophilia are talking stupid. What is polygamy? I mean to say, can it be one woman and several husbands? I tend to think this movement is lead by a small group of men who want a bunch of needy women around them. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 29 19:53:32 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by fwt9000 on Sat Jun 29 15:56:03 2013. Why only men with many wives?Yeah. Why? If the Polygamists movement gains traction, and they're told that the law would have to allow for a woman to have several husbands, I wonder how they would react? |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 29 19:57:12 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 29 19:53:32 2013. Women with multiple husbands is included in the term "polygamy", which divides into three different categories: polyandry (wife with multiple husbands), polygyny (husband with multiple wives) and group marriage. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:57:25 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 29 11:32:23 2013. Correlation doesn't imply causation. Some children of single parents grow up to be very successful. Like Barack Obama. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 20:00:51 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:57:25 2013. The correlation is also skewed.On average, children growing up with one parent do worse than children who grow up with two. But the average is skewed by the really bad ceases. The median outcome for children who grow up with one parent is essentially the same as that for those who grow up with two parents. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 20:00:52 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:57:25 2013. The correlation is also skewed.On average, children growing up with one parent do worse than children who grow up with two. But the average is skewed by the really bad ceases. The median outcome for children who grow up with one parent is essentially the same as that for those who grow up with two parents. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 20:01:11 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 29 11:46:25 2013. There are other aspects of those cults that harms the children. It's not the polygamy. And the aspect of their polygamy that is harmful is the polygyny. Any law legalizing polygamous marriage would also allow polyandry and group marriage, preventing the phenomenon of "lost boys." |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 20:02:35 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 11:50:15 2013. That's the problem with polygyny and forced marriage. Not polygamy in general. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 29 20:08:09 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 29 19:57:12 2013. thanks.you and dand124 are not friends. I wonder what religion you each belong to? Would be interesting to know. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 20:14:00 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 20:02:35 2013. What happens to many teenaged boys in Hildale has nothing to do with forced marriages.It has to do with a closed polygamous community which doesn't recruit new members from the outside, doesn't expose its kids to outside influences, and also doesn't make it OK for children to leave on amicable terms. The gay equivalent of Hildale (which doesn't exist) is gays who insist their children must be gay or else be shunned forever. But right now in the US, polygamy = Hildale/Colorado City. Most polygamists are FLDS. It would be different if other types of polygamous communities or groups existed, or if polygamists were integrated with the rest of the population. But they're not. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 20:20:17 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:26:42 2013. Me too. And at the time you didn't consider it a prejudice, did you?No I didn't consider it a prejudice on my part since I already considered myself very pro-LGBT-friendly. My thinking went like this: "I'm all for gay equality in employment, housing etc, but marriage...you know....it's MARRIAGE. THAT's different". or "I'm not a bigot. I feel for "you people". I even have gay friends. However, gays should focus on things with widespread public support like ending discrimination in employment and in attitudes. When it comes to hospital visitation rights and other benefits, I'm all for things like domestic partnerships....but MARRIAGE? LOL! A dude and a dude...MARRIED? LOLOLOL!!!" or "Marriage? If even open-minded people like me don't support it, it will never happen. It's too weird for America. "You people" are wasting your time on this". What I REALLY thought and wouldn't say was: "SMAZ just doesn't like this ridiculous idea even though it doesn't harm him. Marriage is for MY kind. You people are not normal like me. You unnatural freaks haven't earned it. Be happy that we even talk to you without lynching you." It's like people in the 60's who were in favor of civil rights but when it came to blacks marrying whites it was: "Think about the children.....OHHHH BUT THOSE POOR CHILDREN!!!" Those people were full of shit then just like I was full of shit until about 12 years ago. I'm glad (and surprised) that the rest of America evolved on their views just as quickly as I did. I consider all state constitutional amendments restricting marriage to one man and one woman to be unconstitutional under the standard in Romer v. Evans. The times are not yet ripe for that. However it seems that Justice Kennedy may be ahead of me on this. It's interesting that he killed DOMA Section 3 on 5th Amendment grounds rather than 10th Amendment ones. He goes further than I would've. That means Section 2 of DOMA may be on its last gasps. Without section 2, state constitutional amendments prohibiting same-sex marriages will have their teeth knocked out. In line with Windsor, the fact that Congress would codify such a rare exemption to the Full Faith and Credit Clause for the sole purpose of discriminating against one class of people, and no other compelling reason, renders it unconstitutional in my eyes. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 20:22:30 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:41:02 2013. I think DOMA Section 2 will fall within the next four years. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 20:26:04 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 20:01:11 2013. any law legalizing polygamy would be gender-neutral anyway. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 20:29:30 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 20:22:30 2013. I think you are right. The full faith and credit clause is unambiguous. Roberts may be able to scramble his brain to void it for this purpose, but I doubt Kennedy will.But that's not what Spider Pig and I were discussing. I said I didn't expect WY to allow gay marriages until 2050. I wasn't referring to it recognizing those of other states. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 29 20:43:19 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 20:26:04 2013. but I don't get the impression that those leading the charge see it that way.clearly they are doing this for one-man many-women. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 29 20:51:02 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 02:51:38 2013. I did NOT say biological parents. I said TWO parents. That includes 2 homosexuals as parents (usually there's a blood tie to one). |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 29 20:54:00 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 19:15:49 2013. He'll be surprised to see just how popular polygamy isn't. One woman friend that's into it is NOT an entire gender. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 29 20:55:15 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by fwt9000 on Sat Jun 29 19:12:37 2013. Federal law says no. THIW. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 20:55:54 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 29 20:51:02 2013. That's arbitrary. What if the other biological parent wants to have some rights to the child? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 20:58:24 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 29 20:55:15 2013. Marriage has nothing to do with federal law. See US v. Windsor. If a state legalized polygamy, the federation* would be forced to as well.*I think we should use "federation" instead of "federal government." |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Jun 29 21:05:47 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by fwt9000 on Sat Jun 29 08:35:29 2013. You are totally crazy!!!!!!! Go to some other place on the Web. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 21:06:12 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 29 20:43:19 2013. It doesn't matter.It was right-wing Christians that pushed for schools to grant classroom space during non-school hours. The actual beneficiaries ended up being the likes of Wiccan groups, atheist forums and Gay-Straight Alliances. It was right-wing Christians who pushed for exemptions from zoning laws when it came to building churches. The beneficiaries ended up being mainly mosques and New Age religions. It blew up in the righties face. Then they blamed The Libruls. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 29 21:07:04 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 29 20:58:24 2013. Explain why Utah had to not only make it illegal but also eliminate the practice before obtaining statehood. The ban was done through Federal law some 10 years before Utah applied for statehood, so it wasn't a suppression issue. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by daNd124 on Sat Jun 29 21:07:24 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Jun 29 21:05:47 2013. 
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by daNd124 on Sat Jun 29 21:09:43 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 29 21:07:04 2013. and this all happened in the last three days? |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 29 21:10:44 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 21:06:12 2013. btw- When in NYC I did some sightseeing.Looked at some Pentecostal churches in Queens. They are almost all old industrial buildings. They all put content up on youtube. It's all ranting and raving. You should go to a few in Jackson Heights and Corona. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 21:13:39 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by daNd124 on Sat Jun 29 21:09:43 2013. ???The Supreme Court did not overturn the Edmunds Act of 1882 the other day. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by daNd124 on Sat Jun 29 21:14:17 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 28 22:04:16 2013. the Jewish law that you claim to follow doesn't prohibit polygamy |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by daNd124 on Sat Jun 29 21:16:43 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 21:13:39 2013. it wasn't asked to there's no way it will survive review in total. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Jun 29 21:18:57 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 28 14:06:05 2013. PROFF required. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jun 29 21:20:51 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by daNd124 on Sat Jun 29 21:16:43 2013. Someone would have to get themselves charged under it, or another federal anti-polygamy law, for it to be overturned.And the logic of this week's case wouldn't apply, since there is no state that has tried to effectuate polygamous marriages. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 29 21:25:03 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 28 14:06:05 2013. Wrong. It was about the rights of monogamous same sex couples to access the same rights and privileges as heterosexual married couples when lawfully and fully recognized as married in their state of residence.It's actually a pretty narrow decision. |
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Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Jun 29 21:25:07 2013, in response to Re: Polygamists celebrate SCOTUS DOMA ruling, posted by bingbong on Sat Jun 29 20:55:15 2013. Federal law says no. THIW.What federal law? Were you asleep over the last 3 days? That section of the law is dead....dead....DEAD. May God have mercy on its rotten soul. and the Court used very aggressive Fifth Amendment grounds to shitcan it rather than more restrained Tenth Amendment ones. The separate Section 2 (not challenged in Windsor) would have survived future challenges had they used 10th Amendment grounds. It would have even STRENGTHENED it. Now that rump part of DOMA is also on borrowed time. So not only does the federal government have to recognize any legal marriage performed in these United States, but pretty soon, so will all the other States. Soon you will have a sympathetic Edith Windsor-like person moving from Iowa to Missouri and bringing an almost identical case and challenging Congress' use of a Full Faith and Credit Clause exemption to certain duly-performed marriages. Under the Fifth Amendment logic used in Windsor, such an exemption will be deemed constitutionally untenable. I give Section 2 three-four more years in the ICU before they pull the plug on it. |
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