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| What's up with the Staten Island Bus Study. (323785) | |
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| (323786) | |
Re: What's up with the Staten Island Bus Study. |
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Posted by Dan on Sat May 13 12:40:54 2017, in response to What's up with the Staten Island Bus Study., posted by Chicago44 on Sat May 13 12:35:53 2017. Seems to have fallen off the radar............... |
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| (323793) | |
I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 14 08:07:50 2017, in response to Re: What's up with the Staten Island Bus Study., posted by Dan on Sat May 13 12:40:54 2017. I was looking at the link for Courtesy Counts buttons, and cut some off of the URL and found the study info. |
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| (323794) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by gOld_12th on Sun May 14 08:16:24 2017, in response to I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 14 08:07:50 2017. theres still no "report". MTA is probably not really ready to release the report. |
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| (323795) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 14 08:30:34 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by gOld_12th on Sun May 14 08:16:24 2017. This is not the report, but I did find something. |
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| (323797) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Dan on Sun May 14 10:04:43 2017, in response to I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 14 08:07:50 2017. Interesting but not an official MTA website:Domain Name: CIVICCONNECT.COM Registry Domain ID: 2252087_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com Update Date: 2016-10-21T18:47:38Z Creation Date: 1998-10-22T04:00:00Z Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2017-10-21T04:00:00Z Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC Registrar IANA ID: 146 Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@godaddy.com Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4806242505 Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited Registry Registrant ID: Registrant Name: Robert McConnachie Registrant Organization: CIVIC RESOURCE GROUP Registrant Street: 915 Wilshire Blvd suite #1805 Registrant City: Los Angeles Registrant State/Province: California Registrant Postal Code: 90017 Registrant Country: US |
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| (323798) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 14 10:12:24 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Dan on Sun May 14 10:04:43 2017. This is official. The MTA Courtesy Counts button page is also from this site, and that is official, it was mentioned in a press release. |
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| (323799) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 14 10:12:26 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Dan on Sun May 14 10:04:43 2017. This is official. The MTA Courtesy Counts button page is also from this site, and that is official, it was mentioned in a press release. |
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| (323801) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Dan on Sun May 14 10:23:51 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 14 10:12:26 2017. You're right, and thanks for the info. I guess the MTA contracts some web stuff out -http://nymta.civicconnect.com/courtesy But that SI express bus page has no specific info and appears outdated. The only official MTA SI Bus Study is at - http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/SI_Bus.htm |
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| (323802) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 14 11:11:23 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Dan on Sun May 14 10:23:51 2017. In what was is it outdated? Also, it has been taken down. Perhaps because I found it and posted it. I did save it on the webarchive here. |
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| (323803) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Dan on Sun May 14 13:27:02 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 14 11:11:23 2017. No date on it. Anyway assuming it meant anything I understand why the MTA might want to streamline the express routes but still think that some routes should start/end at the New Dorp (Mill Road & Tysens Lane) location. |
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| (323805) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun May 14 22:23:47 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Dan on Sun May 14 13:27:02 2017. Alright, so taking a glance at the map (which BTW, the original map is a little off. For example, off the top of my head, I see they're missing the X30 AM routing via South Avenue & Goethals Road North), it looks like they're trying to do the following:X2 extended to Hylan & Richmond X3 extended to the ETC X4 eliminated X5 eliminated X7 goes up the FDR Drive to Midtown X8 goes to Worth Street. X9 eliminated X10 eliminated X11 remains as-is X12 goes to Worth Street X14 goes to Worth Street X15 goes to Worth Street. Also, Clarke Avenue diversion eliminated. X17A cut back to ETC X17J extended to Annadale Road X19 rerouted to run the length of Huguenot Avenue X21 increased frequency X22A & X22 Park-and-Ride loop eliminated. Also, X22 runs straight to Bloomingdale Road instead of traveling via Rossville Avenue. X23 runs the length of Rossville Avenue/Seguine Avenue/Foster Road and terminates at Hylan & Sharrott X24 runs the length of Arden Avenue and terminates at Hylan & Barclay. X42 rerouted to Port Richmond Not sure what they plan on doing with off-peak service (I notice that nothing resembling the X1, X10, and X17C appears to be on those maps). |
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| (323806) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun May 14 22:25:04 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun May 14 22:23:47 2017. Also, the X30 looks like it's cut back to Forest & Brighton, and the "Port Richmond" express bus terminal is shifted from Castleton & Jewett (next to the bus depot) to Port Richmond & Richmond Terrace (with the local buses). |
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| (323880) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by dkupf on Sat May 20 02:54:09 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun May 14 22:25:04 2017. WOW!Only 4% of SI express riders use these services between City Hall and the Flatiron District?! No wonder why such a rerouting in Manhattan was proposed. And what about current X8 riders? Those who work around Water Street, in the Financial District, will be forced to walk 10-15 minutes for the bus, negating the proposed savings in travel time. Regarding the routings within SI itself, I have long believed that routes should be simple and easy to understand. But not too simple. In the "What This Means For You" segment, NYCT states that 14% of current express bus riders would no longer have a one-seat ride. Just try adding 14% more riders on subway routes that are already overcrowded during the weekday peak! When SEPTA, MBTA, and the TTC plan route changes, they first compare operating costs and revenue added/lost. Then, separately, they compare ridership gained/lost, travel time increased/decreased, and transfers added/negated. This the NYCT's service planners refuse to do. For years, Operations Planning (OP) has been overseen by the accountants. These people only want to cut service, not improve it. It's my belief that it's time for this practice to end! OP should be its own department under the Executive Vice President. Current riders that would be negatively impacted by these changes deserve to be heard, and must be addressed in their plans. NYCT executives must realize this. They must not be allowed to rest on their laurels. This can only be done by applying constant and consistent pressure on the service planners, as well as on Mr. Irick and Ms. Hakim. And we must not let up! Not one bit! |
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| (323882) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat May 20 08:46:06 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by dkupf on Sat May 20 02:54:09 2017. I'm also noticing that none of the trips via Brooklyn would bring anyone to the center of Midtown (only East Midtown). I cannot tell from the colored map if most Staten Island residents would have the option to go to NJ and get to 6th Ave or if some would be forced to use routes that only go to 3rd or Lex. |
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| (323887) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat May 20 12:36:34 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by dkupf on Sat May 20 02:54:09 2017. Operation Planning has been overseen by accountants because that is what they are told to do from above.MTA/NYCT has a chain of command starting with the governor, chairman, head honcho of each railroad/bus, vice president.....all the way down to the front line employee. |
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| (323893) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat May 20 18:16:02 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat May 20 08:46:06 2017. Hmmm, interesting, it looks like even the archived pages have no reference to that diagram/pamphlet they put out about the SI Bus Study.Anyway, at a glance, it appeared that they planned on sending the "via NJ" routes to 57th & 6th, and the FDR routes to 57th & Madison (so they wouldn't run via 3rd. Possibly they would run via Lexington instead of 5th southbound and leave West Midtown to the "via NJ" routes, because it looks like they were just focusing on AM service in that graphic). In any case, I made a quick summary of what it looks like they're planning on doing in one of my earlier posts (this one to be exact: http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=323805 ). Basically, it looks like unless you live within walking distance of the ETC (or Forest & Richmond, Hylan & Richmond, or in Meiers Corners where you have the X12/42 or X11/31 depending on which direction you walk), you will be restricted as to what part of Midtown you have a one-seat ride to. I will say that Hylan Blvd is really the only corridor where you have all those branches to different parts of Manhattan (East Midtown, West Midtown, WFC, Water Street, Chelsea, etc). The X17 is the second-busiest express route, and during rush hour, you just have the X17A & X17J running to Downtown & Midtown, respectively. |
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| (323894) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat May 20 18:53:26 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by dkupf on Sat May 20 02:54:09 2017. Wow, clearly a course in statistics isn't required as part of your course of study. Requiring 14% of Staten Island express riders to transfer equates to a 14% increase in subway ridership?But then again, this is from a person who wants to bend over backwards to serve people at a single local stop on the S79 route (that could just as easily be covered by a reroute of the S78 that would straighten it out in the process) and screw over an entire housing development by removing all of their service. But anyway, that 4% number is definitely fudged. Most likely it refers to the percentage of rush hour passengers who use the express bus system to travel to points between Worth Street & 23rd Street. And do you know why that is? Because the vast majority of express routes already avoid that section. Between 23rd & Worth at the height of rush hour, you only have the X1/7/9/10B/12. In the meantime, you have the X2/5/17J/21/22/23/24/30/31/42 which serve Midtown-only, and the X3/4/8/11/15/17A/19 that serve Downtown-only. The X14 serves both Downtown & Midtown, but bypasses areas in between, and every single SI express bus that runs through Greenwich Village also serves destinations Downtown (and the X7/9/10B continue north of 23rd as well). I live off the X17, the second-busiest express route in the borough. You tell me how I'm supposed to get a one-seat ride to 14th Street during rush hour in the peak direction. You don't think there's riders who take the subway to Downtown or Midtown because that's where the express bus happens to stop and that skews the ridership towards the better-served Downtown & Midtown areas? Last night, I took the last X17 of the evening (who was technically an "extra" bus that left 20 minutes after the last official bus). There were 67 people on that bus (57 seated plus 10 standees). Are you going to tell me with a straight face that only 3 of those people were boarding between 23rd & Worth? I'm not even saying they're wrong for trying to focus the services on Downtown & Midtown. But to just blindly believe their statistics without considering how or why they arrived at those numbers is just wrong. In any case, in order to serve the World Financial Center (which I can say from experience is a major stop), I would at the very least have the X7 & X10B continue serving it, and truncate those routes at 23rd Street (to continue providing some sort of service between Worth & 23rd). Off-peak, I will admit that while there is a lot of ridership north of Worth Street (and the subways have their construction work), there's often parades and street fairs that mess up service. I've seen routine bunching on 30 minute headways, which shouldn't be the case. So I would understand if the X1/10/17 were cut back to Downtown off-peak, but at the same time, there would have to be a compromise (perhaps running the X22 off-peak while also adding more frequent off-peak service on all routes to account for the fact that some passengers may miss their transfers). Also, they should take into account the fare structure (if somebody presently takes the local bus to access the express bus, they shouldn't have to pay an additional fare to take the subway or local bus in Manhattan). |
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Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Sat May 20 19:07:03 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat May 20 18:53:26 2017. What about sending the X11 to the World Financial Center instead of Worth St. |
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| (323897) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Sat May 20 19:07:34 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Chicago44 on Sat May 20 19:07:03 2017. I wonder if NYC Transit will finally takeover both the X23 & X24 routes from Academy. |
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| (323898) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat May 20 19:46:50 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Chicago44 on Sat May 20 19:07:03 2017. You mean by going straight to/from the tunnel or by having it do what the X3/4 currently do?You definitely need to run it on Greenwich/Trinity/Church (and Broadway southbound) to maintain easy access to the subway. Turning it off at Murray instead of going a couple of more stops to Worth...I could see the logic in that, but at the same time, it makes the ride that much longer for those going to the WFC. They talk about how the plan saves 20 minutes, but I could easily see that loop adding 20 minutes to those riders' trips. Something from Hylan still needs to go directly there, though. |
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| (323899) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun May 21 08:51:07 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat May 20 18:16:02 2017. I think the basic idea of the plan is to be credited, however -- eliminate service to the middle area between Downtown and Midtown. Why should everyone have to sit through such a traffic- congested trip when statistically the number of passengers served there is so small? Command and Queens Surface knew not to go there. . .hence their routes to this day, now MTA itself may jump on that bandwagon with its own (original) routes. |
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Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Sun May 21 09:20:06 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun May 21 08:51:07 2017. Don't forget, the X27 & X28 express routes go through that area as well. |
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| (323901) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun May 21 09:34:10 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat May 20 18:53:26 2017. I understand your point that often ridership is not representative of demand but rather a result of the lack of service provided to a point. That I get.But what I don't get is why it's necessary for you to have a one-seat ride to 14th Street. I have lived in the suburban-like sections of Brooklyn and Queens (BM and QM territory), so within NYC and closer in distance than Eltingville, but have never had a one-seat ride to 14th Street, and never felt that I should have one. If I really needed 14th Street, I would probably use an FDR express to 23rd and take the subway down a stop. |
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| (323902) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun May 21 09:46:02 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Chicago44 on Sun May 21 09:20:06 2017. That's a section of Brooklyn (Bay Ridge / Bensonhurst) I've never lived in. . .offhand I can't think of much reason why they would need access to the "middle" area in Manhattan any more than any other express route. If Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights, and Coney Island were part of Staten Island I wonder if they would be included in this study. |
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| (323903) | |
Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun May 21 14:44:21 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun May 21 09:34:10 2017. For me personally, I was just using 14th Street as an example of a stop between Worth & 23rd where I would have to take the subway to Downtown or Midtown to catch my bus, even though my actual destination was in between (so yes, you understand my point). I'm not suggesting that the X17 should have a Greenwich Village branch or anything during rush hour.As for why a Staten Islander in general would want to to go Greenwich Village (I know there's multiple areas between Worth & 23rd, Chelsea, Tribeca, etc, but I'll just use Greenwich Village to refer to that area), the thing you have to consider is that SI express ridership is much higher and so while there might not be a market to sustain any type of BM or QM route that runs via Greenwich Village, I would say there's a market to sustain at least a rush hour route that covers it. Let me put it to you this way, on a typical rush hour trip on the X7, you might pick up 3-4 people at each stop between 23rd & WFC (not inclusive), and then say, 15-20 people at the WFC itself. So say you come into the WFC with 20-30 people and leave with 40-50. And remember, this is taking into account that you're splitting some of the ridership with the X1 & X9. If you had a dedicated route (eliminated the X1 during rush hour, combined the X7/9, and cut that route back to 23rd Street), I could easily see such a route justifying 5 minute headways during rush hour. The X10B is a little harder to make the case for, but I could see a 23rd Street-Port Richmond via West Street route justifying 15 minute headways (especially if the X12 were cut back to Worth Street) As for what's causing that ridership between Worth & 23rd, you have to consider that SI is more dependent on its express buses than a typical rider in BM/QM territory. So somebody going to say, NYU might say "Well, I can take the QM1/5/6 to Herald Square and catch a train down, or just take the Q46 to the E/F and save the money and it'll still take approximately the same amount of time". Staten Islanders have no comparable alternative. So you have more students and retail workers using the SI express buses compared to the QM/BM buses (the majority of ridership of course, is people heading to professional jobs, but still those little secondary ridership bases do add up). |
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Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon May 22 10:08:03 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun May 21 14:44:21 2017. Thank you for helping me understand your perspective better.I might suggest that if the Staten Island express buses simply do what the BM and QMs do (ignoring the X27/28 for now) and just get people to the Downtown and Midtown CBDs, i.e. put people in a good place to snatch a quick subway ride, it may be better even for those who want Greenwich Village, etc. Even if I lived in Staten Island, I might consider that an express bus picking me up, say, in Annadale, and taking me to either Downtown or Midtown CBD (both options available at any time) is the best I can ask for because then that route will have higher reliability (not subject to traffic in the "middle" of Manhattan) and in all cases put me in a great spot to catch the subway. Basically, Annadale would be just like Mill Basin or Gerritsen Beach or eastern Union Turnpike in terms of express service, except that service would be more frequent (assuming demand is higher) and the ride would be longer in minutes (which is a given due to Annadale's location). |
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Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by dkupf on Mon May 22 21:22:11 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by dkupf on Sat May 20 02:54:09 2017. Frankly, you are all correct.It seems that the first draft, for the Manhattan leg, the service planners have oversimplified. Having all 5th/6th Avenue service not operate south of 42nd St, and having all service from there to 23rd Street operate solely via Lex/Madison?! Such a proposal may look good on paper, but would affect too many riders. I'm sure that for the little time that this "draft" was up, NYCT received an earful, due to the aforementioned. Let's hope that this was the reason it was taken down. |
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Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Mon May 22 22:36:41 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by dkupf on Mon May 22 21:22:11 2017. When did the MTA posted this up on their website & when was it taken down. |
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Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed May 24 22:56:19 2017, in response to Re: I HAVE FOUND INFO ON THE SI BUS STUDY, posted by Chicago44 on Mon May 22 22:36:41 2017. You can see from this very thread: It was posted up and taken down on May 14th. That leads me to believe it was just inadvertently released prematurely. |
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