|
|
| Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. (321363) | |
 |
|
| Home > BusChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 2 of 11 |
||
|
| (321601) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 2 15:27:57 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 11:09:20 2017. No, it's not. We're having a serious discussion on important issues. There is no need to dumb it down. If you can't keep up, that's on you. |
|
| (321607) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 21:26:10 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 11:49:49 2017. Yes I have but not recently. I do not remember encountering problems with turning cars.If the decision was made just to accommodate cyclists with no consideration to traffic delays or emergency vehicles, then that was wrong. You shouldn't base your decisions only on the needs of cyclists and pedestrians which is just what the city is now doing. When I used to drive through Downtown Brooklyn many years ago, I remember traffic enforcement agents allowing cars to override red lights during rush hours to reduce delays and move traffic. Most have since been reassigned to giving out parking tickets because the city us no longer interested in moving traffic. |
|
| (321608) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 21:32:59 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 11:45:34 2017. My last comment was not addressed to you.The 85 percentile rule applies to highways, not the city speed limit. When traffic permits, very few abide by the 25 mph speed limit because most of the time (in good weather) it is ridiculous. Just go to Queens Blvd where the speed limit click us and you will see virtually every car going above 25 mph. In fact they are doing the same speed as when it were 30 and previously 35 mph. That is because most drivers believe in driving at a safe speed. Most of the accidents are caused by those who are really speeding line at 50 or 60 mph. Those nuts still will speed if the limit is 25, 30, 35 or even 15 mph. How do you redesign cars to name it safer for the pedestrian? Place a maximum speed on the vehicle of 25 mph? |
|
| (321609) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 21:35:49 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 11:55:49 2017. So does that mean if a road is separated, you only have to stop behind school buses with flashing red lights if they are stopped going in the same direction as yourself? |
|
| (321610) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 22:03:55 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 21:26:10 2017. Yes I have but not recently. I do not remember encountering problems with turning cars.Why don't you try to use the cycle path now. Driver turning behavior has become a lot more agressive since Lundy's was a destination. If the decision was made just to accommodate cyclists with no consideration to traffic delays or emergency vehicles, then that was wrong. Consideration was to how much delay the regulation would cause was taken into account. It was deemed acceptable for a recreational road. The City could have turned Ocean Parkway into a limited access highway in the late 1960's early 1970's. NYC decided keeping Ocean Parkway as a recreational parkway was more important than any time savings that might be achieved. You shouldn't base your decisions only on the needs of cyclists and pedestrians which is just what the city is now doing. Nor should decisions be based solely on saving a few seconds for motorists. When I used to drive through Downtown Brooklyn many years ago, I remember traffic enforcement agents allowing cars to override red lights during rush hours to reduce delays and move traffic. Most have since been reassigned to giving out parking tickets because the city us no longer interested in moving traffic. Traffic enforcement agents used to be part of DOT. They have been transferred to the Police Department. Their training and deployment is now controlled by the police commissioner. If you feel both are less effective than in the "brownie" days, blame the NYPD. |
|
| (321611) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 22:03:55 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 21:26:10 2017. Yes I have but not recently. I do not remember encountering problems with turning cars.Why don't you try to use the cycle path now. Driver turning behavior has become a lot more agressive since Lundy's was a destination. If the decision was made just to accommodate cyclists with no consideration to traffic delays or emergency vehicles, then that was wrong. Consideration was to how much delay the regulation would cause was taken into account. It was deemed acceptable for a recreational road. The City could have turned Ocean Parkway into a limited access highway in the late 1960's early 1970's. NYC decided keeping Ocean Parkway as a recreational parkway was more important than any time savings that might be achieved. You shouldn't base your decisions only on the needs of cyclists and pedestrians which is just what the city is now doing. Nor should decisions be based solely on saving a few seconds for motorists. When I used to drive through Downtown Brooklyn many years ago, I remember traffic enforcement agents allowing cars to override red lights during rush hours to reduce delays and move traffic. Most have since been reassigned to giving out parking tickets because the city us no longer interested in moving traffic. Traffic enforcement agents used to be part of DOT. They have been transferred to the Police Department. Their training and deployment is now controlled by the police commissioner. If you feel both are less effective than in the "brownie" days, blame the NYPD. |
|
| (321612) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 22:55:07 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 21:32:59 2017. The 85 percentile rule applies to highways, not the city speed limit.Here's a link to chapter 2 of the NYS Highway Design Manual. You will note that the 85-percentile very much applies and that a "non-standard speed is not to be used". Most of the accidents are caused by those who are really speeding line at 50 or 60 mph. The NYPD collision reports are available on the web. It's available in a format that can be imported into a database and analyzed. It is updated daily. The database shows: 300256 collisions for which "Unsafe Speeding" was mentioned in 1179 crashes for 0.39% of the crashes. |
|
| (321613) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 22:55:07 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 21:32:59 2017. The 85 percentile rule applies to highways, not the city speed limit.Here's a link to chapter 2 of the NYS Highway Design Manual. You will note that the 85-percentile very much applies and that a "non-standard speed is not to be used". Most of the accidents are caused by those who are really speeding line at 50 or 60 mph. The NYPD collision reports are available on the web. It's available in a format that can be imported into a database and analyzed. It is updated daily. The database shows: 300256 collisions for which "Unsafe Speeding" was mentioned in 1179 crashes for 0.39% of the crashes. |
|
| (321614) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 23:07:49 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 21:32:59 2017. How do you redesign cars to name it safer for the pedestrian?Google is trying. Ralph Nader devoted a chapter to the second collision in "Unsafe At Any Speed". That's why we have seat belts, shoulder harnesses, air bags, etc. Google is applying the same principle to make sure the only impact for a pedestrian is the one with the car. No secondary impact onto the pavement. They are trying glue. Place a maximum speed on the vehicle of 25 mph? That's actually a very easy thing to do. Most cars are or will be equipped with a device that tells its geographic position. A database can look up the speed limit. This can them limit the car's top speed to the speed limit. |
|
| (321616) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jan 2 23:46:24 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 23:07:49 2017. Glue huh?What if the car is out of control and squashes someone on the side of building and really kills them? |
|
| (321617) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 23:52:00 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jan 2 23:46:24 2017. What if the car is out of control and squashes someone on the side of building and really kills them?Just because a device won't provide 100% protection doesn't mean it isn't useful. |
|
| (321618) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 3 00:12:35 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 23:52:00 2017. What percent would you put it at? |
|
| (321619) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Tue Jan 3 09:06:14 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 21:26:10 2017. You shouldn't base your decisions only on the needs of cyclists and pedestrians which is just what the city is now doing.After decades of basing its decisions only on the needs of motorists, resulting in decisions that are cemented into the unbalanced transportation system we currently have. It's about time the city started remedying this. |
|
| (321620) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 3 10:45:01 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Tue Jan 3 09:06:14 2017. It's about time the city started remedying this.Fine. But in some cases they've gone overboard. Especially in cases where they have seriously damaged bus routes. |
|
| (321621) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 10:50:41 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by AlM on Tue Jan 3 10:45:01 2017. Especially in cases where they have seriously damaged bus routes.Bus routes were irretrievably damaged when Manhattan avenues were made one-way. This was done to speed travel by private automobiles. |
|
| (321622) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BusMgr on Tue Jan 3 11:03:48 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by merrick1 on Sun Jan 1 18:58:39 2017. An interesting case, and one where I think the Court of Appeals may have gotten it wrong. Relying on precedent, the court found (and the City did not contest) that the City acts in a proprietary manner, not in a governmental manner, in maintaining its highways. It is reasonable, I think to then charge the government with the duty to maintain the physical infrastructure of such highways, including the traffic control devices installed to permit all to use the highways with a reasonable degree of safety. Here, the issue was whether it was the City's duty to install physical barriers (or other devices) in order to prevent highway users from traveling at excessive speed, thereby endangering other highway users. That seems a bit much to me. There was a speed limit, and here the automobilist traveled in excess of the speed limit, not because the City extolled him to do so, but because of his own free will, and with disregard of the safety of other highway users. It is as if the court declared speeding along Gerritsen Avenue to be irresistible, for which a normal law-abiding citizen would be unable to control their own actions. |
|
| (321623) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BusMgr on Tue Jan 3 11:06:04 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 11:00:30 2017. Essentially, you're looking at correlation, not causation. True, the more cyclists, the more cycling fatalities. But the overwhelming causes of the fatalities are the automobiles, not the bicycles, because of their weight and inertia. |
|
| (321624) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BusMgr on Tue Jan 3 11:10:55 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 11:09:20 2017. The common law definition of "highway" goes back to at least the Norman Conquest. Automobility is relatively new. It is fine to change the law if circumstances change, but it requires some affirmative act of the legislature to do so. Meanwhile, we have 1,000 years of common law behind us. |
|
| (321625) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 11:33:41 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Tue Jan 3 11:10:55 2017. And you dint think circumstances have changed since the Norman Conquest? |
|
| (321626) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 3 11:41:56 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 11:33:41 2017. LOL! |
|
| (321628) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BusMgr on Tue Jan 3 11:45:21 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 11:08:16 2017. Although people may not, in common usage, refer to something correctly, that does not change the true meaning of the term.It is true that relative automotive safety has improved, and the number of annual motor vehicle fatalities declined in recent years from about 40,000 to about 35,000. But an improvement in safety alone does not change the characteristic of the thing from inherently dangerous to safe. The term "inherently dangerous" has been defined as follows. "Danger inhering is instrumentality or condition itself at all times, so as to require special precautions to prevent injury, not danger arising from mere casual or collateral negligence of others with respect thereto under particular circumstances. Brown v. City of Craig, 350 Mo. 836, 168 S.W.2d 1080, 1082. An object which has in itself the potential for causing harm or destruction, against which precautions must be taken. Dangerous per se, with requiring human intervention to produce harmful effects; e.g., explosives. Product is 'inherently dangerous' where danger of an injury arises from product itself, and not from defect in product. General Bronze Corp. v. Kostopulos, 203 Va. 66, 122 S.E.2d 548, 551. Work is 'inherently dangerous' when in ordinary course of event ts performance would probably, and not merely possibly, cause injury if proper precautions are not taken. Paladis v. U.S., D.C. Fla., 564 F. Supp. 1397, 1401." In the context of automobiles, one court described stated: "Driving an automobile is an inherently dangerous act which potentially endangers the public." Florida v. W.W., 16 So. 3d 305 (Fla. App., 2009) (Cohen, J. dissenting). Admittedly, I may be taking a shortcut in describing the automobile itself as being inherently dangerous, rather than more fully stating that it is the act of driving an automobile that is inherently dangerous ("There is nothing inherently dangerous about an automobile any more than about an axe. Both are harmless so long as no one attempts to use them, and both are likely to injure those who come in contact with them when they are used for the purpose for which they were intended." Danforth v. Fisher, 75 N.H. 111, 71 A. 535 (N.H., 1908)). There are other cases that do hold otherwise, but ultimately what I think is the key aspect is the reason that we label something as inherently dangerous: to hold its owner or user strictly liable, and to not unfairly impose the impose onto society the risks of ownership or usage of such things. |
|
| (321629) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 11:45:34 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 2 15:27:57 2017. I disagree. Using common terms in having a discussion is not dumbing down anything. It just assures there are fewer misunderstandings. There is no reason to use the word "highway" to cause confusion when you are just referring to a street or roadway.It is also confusing to use the word "street" when you are referring to building line to building line and not curb to curb where there are sidewalks. Legal definitions are intentionally not updated because government wants these terms to be ambiguous so that only lawyers can interpret the laws to increase business for them. |
|
| (321630) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BusMgr on Tue Jan 3 11:53:02 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 11:33:41 2017. How many millenia have transpired since Moses descended Mount Sinai with the law of God, declaring, inter alia, that you shall not murder? See Exodus 20:13. Have circumstances changed since then? The instruments for murdering have changed, but not the societal relationship to which that law applies. Likewise, the instruments of travel on highways have changes, but the underlying legal concept of having the highway open to use by all has not. Passage of time, by itself, does not change the law. |
|
| (321631) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 3 11:58:29 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 11:45:34 2017. You were legitimately confused, which is fine because you didn't necessarily expect him to use the legal definition of highway. But once he established that's what he was using, there is no reason not to use it that way. Using highway in its colloquial definition is more confusing as many people use highway to refer to any major surface road. e.g. in some states what we call "Route 17" would be called "Highway 17." Therefore BusMgr is making it less confusing by using well-accepted definitions instead of colloquialisms. |
|
| (321632) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 3 11:59:51 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 11:45:34 2017. You were legitimately confused, which is fine because you didn't necessarily expect him to use the legal definition of highway. But once he established that's what he was using, there is no reason not to use it that way. Using highway in its colloquial definition is more confusing as many people use highway to refer to any major surface road. e.g. in some states what we call "Route 17" would be called "Highway 17." Therefore BusMgr is making it less confusing by using well-accepted definitions instead of colloquialisms.Also, regarding your second paragraph: LOL! These words are precisely defined in the law to minimize confusion, not increase it. |
|
| (321633) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 12:09:50 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 3 00:12:35 2017. I have no idea how well Google's idea will work. Tests are needed to determine that.What's noteworthy is that this is the first attempt to reduce injuries in a pedestrian-automobile collision for a given impact speed. It comes nearly 40 years after the automobile industry was made aware of the relation between killed/severely injured and impact speed. |
|
| (321634) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jan 3 13:26:09 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 11:00:30 2017. At the BQE entrance it is down to a total of six lanes, three in each direction.Seriously? 
|
|
| (321635) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 3 13:47:59 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 12:09:50 2017. I'd take my chance bouncing off the pavement before being stuck to the hood of a car. |
|
| (321636) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 13:59:42 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 3 13:47:59 2017. Before seat belts and restraints, a common refrain was: "I escaped death because I was thrown clear of the car". Then wiser heads started looking at the evidence and realized otherwise.Investigation of pedestrian deaths/injuries is in its infancy. It's about time. |
|
| (321637) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 3 14:46:29 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 13:59:42 2017. Glue? |
|
| (321638) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jan 3 14:49:58 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 21:26:10 2017. When I used to drive through Downtown Brooklyn many years ago, I remember traffic enforcement agents allowing cars to override red lights during rush hours to reduce delays and move traffic. Most have since been reassigned to giving out parking tickets because the city us no longer interested in moving traffic.Or traffic signal technology has improved since many years ago and having police details isn't needed any more. |
|
| (321640) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 3 15:34:03 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 10:50:41 2017. True. That doesn't change the fact that certain recent alleged pedestrian and bicycle improvements have done far more to hurt bus passengers than they have done to help bicyclists and pedestrians. |
|
| (321641) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Tue Jan 3 16:01:41 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by AlM on Tue Jan 3 10:45:01 2017. I see that as an unfortunate side effect of the fact that buses rely on automobile infrastructure. Giving space back to pedestrians and cyclists is likely to take it away from buses. That can't really be avoided.If the effect on buses is severe enough, the right course of action is then to designate some of the remaining space for the exclusive use of buses. |
|
| (321642) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 17:34:15 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by AlM on Tue Jan 3 15:34:03 2017. certain recent alleged pedestrian and bicycle improvements have done far more to hurt bus passengers than they have done to help bicyclists and pedestrians.Can you be more specific? |
|
| (321648) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 3 20:55:17 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 17:34:15 2017. Broadway below 59th. It used to be a valuable bus route.Much of 2nd Ave. has 1 lane less than it used to - slowing down traffic considerably. |
|
| (321649) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:01:26 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Tue Jan 3 16:01:41 2017. The point is you are hurting more than you are helping and that just isn't right. |
|
| (321650) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:03:23 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Tue Jan 3 09:06:14 2017. Untrue. Even in the1960's pedestrians were being considered. Walk and don't walk signs were added and crosswalks were better marked than previously. The difference is now they and cyclists are the only ones being considered. |
|
| (321653) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:04:56 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 17:34:15 2017. That's why the MTA protested the reroutings resulting from the Tines Square pedestrian mall. They said they had to add 20 minutes to bus schedules costing them money. |
|
| (321654) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:06:27 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jan 3 14:49:58 2017. That's not what I heard from the people who still drive. And the recent articles in the NY Post confirmed what I stated. |
|
| (321655) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:08:29 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Tue Jan 3 11:06:04 2017. And cyclists breaking the law by not having reflectors, lights or horns and some who drive recklessly that cause the automobiles to strike them. |
|
| (321656) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:10:38 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Tue Jan 3 11:53:02 2017. And I suppose you believe that before automobile travel, there were no accidents involving horses and wagons or horses by themselves because automobiles "are the villains". |
|
| (321657) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:13:52 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Tue Jan 3 11:45:21 2017. And I suppose airplanes, though safer than auto travel, are not "inherently dangerous"?How about trains? We have had many serious train accidents in recent years resulting in fatalities. So what is your point? We return to horse and buggy for transportation? Those were dangerous also. |
|
| (321659) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:17:20 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 22:55:07 2017. I can assure you that traffic permitting, 85% of vehicles do not abide by the 25 mph speed limit.And .39% makes it appear that speeding isn't even really a problem. Is that the message you are sending? |
|
| (321660) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:20:10 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 13:59:42 2017. I actually worked with someone who actually was thrown clear if the car as it ran off the cliff. He even landed on his feet unhurt and was told he would have been dead if he had his seatbelt on. It was a rare case, but it did happen. |
|
| (321666) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by brightonr68 on Tue Jan 3 21:34:01 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 21:32:59 2017. That does not take into account pedestrians who ignor common sense and don't look before the cross and try to run in front of cars. Just got back from Guatemala. Cars, motor cycles, tuck tucks moving down busy street full of pedestrians. Not a single accident or pedestrian incedent. The pedestrians looked for the vehicles and the vehicles looked out for the pedestrians. A two way system. Her in NYC it is a one way system. the drivers are responcible for a silly person who tries to run in front of a turning car. I'm sorry, i will run over the pedestrians and take my chances rather than getting t-bones by the 1% of drivers who really speed. Newer high performance cars that let driver accelerate at a much high rate that 20 years ago is also a problem. A Nissan Maxima in the the 1990's had 190 Horse power and was concidered a fast car. The average Camaro had around 200 Horse power. Today people are driving around in 300 and 400 horse power cars . |
|
| (321667) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Jan 3 21:35:48 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 10:50:41 2017. They can kill two birds with one stone by allowing buses to travel in the opposite direction on avenues using the (current) leftmost lane. It also creates a bus lane that cannot be subtly encroached by private autos since they would essentially be veering into oncoming traffic. The best example of this I can think of is San Juan. |
|
| (321669) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 3 22:44:06 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:06:27 2017. How would the average person who you know who still drives know if the signal technology has improved? |
|
| (321670) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 3 22:46:10 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:20:10 2017. lol |
|
| (321671) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 23:04:57 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 3 21:08:29 2017. And cyclists breaking the law by not having reflectors, lights or horns and some who drive recklessly that cause the automobiles to strike them.Until such time as there are driverless cars, automobiles don't strike cyclists. Their drivers do. My bicycle is equipped with reflectors, lights and a bell. I was wearing a lime colored safety vest. A driver still drove his car into my rear in broad daylight. The police report noted a contributing cause was "Driver Inattention." |
|
| (321672) | |
Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
|
|
Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 3 23:11:58 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 3 23:04:57 2017. And bikes don't pedal themselves into cars. Their riders do. |
|
|
Page 2 of 11 |
||