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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:10:11 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:00:10 2016. Correct! The purpose of a bus lane IS NOT to slow down cars. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:10:31 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:15:37 2016. You stated that the bus lanes will have traffic move faster for everyone. That means where they are currently installed traffic is moving faster. Now you say you never said that. Get your story straight. I have yet to see you back up any of your points with data. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:11:18 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:17:27 2016. Have you seen LOS data in past reports? |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:12:17 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:01:50 2016. I am not contradicting myself at all.100 year old relevant data is more valuable than 1 year old irrelevant data. Yes, today's temperature in central park is newer than the 2012 M34 ridership statistics, but it is substantially less valuable for determining whether SBS is a success. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:13:19 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 09:01:46 2016. Read the first sentence.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_service It refers to highways only. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:15:19 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:23:37 2016. Capacity refers to turning movements as well as turns. You have decided to concern yourself only with through traffic and ignore the extra miles traveled by eliminating left turns and dedicated right turn lanes by building sidewalk extensions. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:16:58 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:24:42 2016. Traffic volumes would have to have not changed one iota in 100 years for what you say to be true, so the chance of it being still relevent would be nil. |
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| (311467) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:25:11 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:08:18 2016. "I never said those two exceptions are insignificant distances so don't put words in my mouth."For my point to be misleading, those would have to be insignificant. Therefore, YOU put those words in your mouth, not me. "The question was are general lanes being removed for bus lanes and the answer should be a resounding YES." EXACTLY WRONG, WHICH IS THE POINT YOU YOURSELF ARE REFUTING IN THE ABOVE STATEMENT. "Your statement about existing bus lanes being moved is currently up in the air. That was the original proposal, but now is in doubt. A decision will be made after the SBS lanes are extended south and the data is analyzed." Nothing is in doubt. The street is still being fully rebuilt. |
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| (311468) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:26:21 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:10:31 2016. What is currently installed is not the final project. When the final project is installed, there will be fewer problems on Woodhaven. |
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| (311469) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:27:35 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:11:18 2016. Not much. Have you? |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:29:28 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:13:19 2016. Read the whole article. It does not refer to highways only.AND WOODHAVEN IS A HIGHWAY FOR SUCH PURPOSES. And it is wikipedia! If wikipedia stated "Allan Rosen is an idiot", would you take that as a universal truth? |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:31:11 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 19:00:46 2016. West Street as it exists now certainly did not exist when Miller Highway was in existence. It was merely a service road. It was entirely reconstructed and widened after Miller was torn down.Yes, the lights did slightly reduce capacity but not by much since much of the time traffic on the highway was slow anyway. Your last statements show you know absolutely nothing about who is using Woodhaven. There are three choices from Sherpshead Bay to Woodside and vicinity. (1) The BQE (2) Pennsylvania/Jackie Robinson/Woodhaven/Queens Blvd/ BQE to Woodside or (3) Belt to Woodhaven to Queens Boulevard. I made that trip daily for nine years and knew at which times of the day which one was the best route depending on traffic conditions. I used all three of this routes also (4) Ocean Parkway as a fourth alternative. A fifth was Ocean Avenue to Empire Blvd to Rogers/Bedford to the BQE which I also used at times. With exclusive lanes on Rogers, that is no longer a viable alternative. With exclusive lanes on Woodhaven, that will become not viable most of the time leaving alternatives 1, 2 using Woodhaven briefly, 4, 5, or the Belt to Van Wyck to Northern Boulevard. In short traffic will be diverted to so many other roadways that it will not even be possible to measure all of them and all will take longer than the present Woodhaven alternative. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:33:31 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:15:19 2016. No. Through capacity is Through capacity. It does not include turns. Turning capacity and through capacity are not like quantities. You cannot combine them.And right turn lanes at Metropolitan aren't being eliminated. So stop lying. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:37:30 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 08:54:26 2016. But those benefits have to first be clearly shown before changes are made. DOT has not done that. Merely stating a bus can hold more passengers than two cars is not enough. They have to show that significant numbers of people would be willing to change modes. No one as even hinted at that.If you do want to get people to switch you must do other things line reroute and change bus routes as well as add new ones, change the fare and transfer structure or build park and ride lots. SBS proposes none of that and is bein planned in a vacuum which is my problem with it. The proposed B82 SBS is not even being proposed to be extended to connect with the Cross Bay Blvd SBS to create a network. You can have all the theory you want and it doesn't matter when you don't have the specifics. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:37:46 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:16:58 2016. That is not true. The chances it would be perfect are surely nil, but they are certainly a lot more valuable than NUMBERS WHICH HAVE NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE POINT BEING MADE. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:39:25 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:54:16 2016. I guess common sense isn't one of your strong points. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:40:43 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:08:32 2016. Peak periods certainly do require the lane. Where do you get the notion that they don't? |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:44:38 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:09:43 2016. But traffic cannot be "handled" at the peak hour. Prior to bus lanes traffic was heavy but moving during the peak hour. Given the fact that there is great variation from day to day. Some days when I used it daily there was about one day a week where traffic did not move at all and many had to use side streets or alternate routes as an alternative. So for you to make a blanket statement like the peak hour is successfully "handled" currently with and without bus lanes is totally wrong. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:45:54 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:57:33 2016. And when it proves to be a total disaster, what will you say then? |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:48:42 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:31:11 2016. "West Street as it exists now certainly did not exist when Miller Highway was in existence. It was merely a service road. It was entirely reconstructed and widened after Miller was torn down."Yeah, and in case you didn't know, service roads provide capacity. And in the years between closure and removal, they WERE the only capacity. "Yes, the lights did slightly reduce capacity but not by much since much of the time traffic on the highway was slow anyway." Traffic lights certainly do reduce capacity, regardless of speed. "Your last statements show you know absolutely nothing about who is using Woodhaven. There are three choices from Sherpshead Bay to Woodside and vicinity. (1) The BQE (2) Pennsylvania/Jackie Robinson/Woodhaven/Queens Blvd/ BQE to Woodside or (3) Belt to Woodhaven to Queens Boulevard." LOL. All 10 of you going from Sheepshead Bay to Woodside will really cause traffic to back up. You know, most of the world doesn't have the same exact commute as you once did. In fact, you don't either anymore!!! "I made that trip daily for nine years and knew at which times of the day which one was the best route depending on traffic conditions. I used all three of this routes also (4) Ocean Parkway as a fourth alternative. A fifth was Ocean Avenue to Empire Blvd to Rogers/Bedford to the BQE which I also used at times." I'm sure you did! "With exclusive lanes on Rogers, that is no longer a viable alternative. With exclusive lanes on Woodhaven, that will become not viable most of the time leaving alternatives 1, 2 using Woodhaven briefly, 4, 5, or the Belt to Van Wyck to Northern Boulevard." Except the capacity on Woodhaven will be higher. And considering your absurd notion of viability, I suspect Rogers is not substantially different today either. "In short traffic will be diverted to so many other roadways that it will not even be possible to measure all of them and all will take longer than the present Woodhaven alternative." LOL. If they took longer before, they probably will after. That said, you could just take the soon to be faster Woodhaven Boulevard. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:51:16 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 10:06:17 2016. The object is to get people where they want to go. We can eliminate all right and left turns on the entire Woodhaven and Cross Bay Boulevards. What would that do? It would increase capacity as you say. But no one would be able to get anywhere unless you were traveling from Howard Beach to Queens Boulevard.If you were a transportation planner or traffic engineer you would know that CAPACITY ISNT THE ONLY CONSIDERATION. Getting people to their destinations as quickly as possible is the goal and any proposal that hurts more than it helps as this one does is not a good one. So you STFU. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:52:47 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:10:11 2016. Okay so if it not to slow down cars and it is not to speed up buses, what is its purpose? |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:53:39 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:40:43 2016. LOL. So now it is ok to use the peak period data? |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:54:42 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:45:54 2016. Nothing, as such will not happen. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:56:24 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:52:47 2016. Speed up buses AND make them more reliable by reducing interference from other vehicles. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:02:36 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:51:16 2016. "The object is to get people where they want to go. We can eliminate all right and left turns on the entire Woodhaven and Cross Bay Boulevards. What would that do? It would increase capacity as you say. But no one would be able to get anywhere unless you were traveling from Howard Beach to Queens Boulevard."Right turns do not reduce capacity. "If you were a transportation planner or traffic engineer you would know that CAPACITY ISNT THE ONLY CONSIDERATION." Nobody is saying it is. "Getting people to their destinations as quickly as possible is the goal and any proposal that hurts more than it helps as this one does is not a good one. So you STFU." LOL. You keep saying that, while it is pretty clear to anybody outside of your little bubble that this project helps a LOT more than it hurts. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:02:40 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:12:17 2016. Isn't it possible that during the first year many riders decided to try SBS because of all the hype so ridership increased during the first year.But during the second year they realized they really weren't saving time or machines started to break down more often causing needless hassle or they received summonses unfairly and decide to resume their former traffic patterns during the second year so ridership declined. Or perhaps enforcement declined during the second year and fare evasion increased leading to lower ridership numbers but not really reduced ridership. All those are distinct possibilities that would be reflected in second year statistics not the first. THERE IS NO REASON THE BELIEVE THAT FIRST YEAR STATISTICS TELL THE ENTIRE STORY ABOUT THE EFFCTIVENESS OF SBS. There are far too many variables to determine success entirely from the first year statistics. Also since B44 ridership declined during the first year, does that mean it didn't work and should be discontinued? Or should changes be attempted to try to make it successful? I would think the latter. But if we made changes, second and third year statistics would be meaningless according to you because ONLY THE FIRST YEAR MATTERS AND NOTHING ELSE. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:06:17 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:25:11 2016. No the street is not being fully rebuilt during Phase 1. And Phase 2 is very much in doubt at this point.Now you are denying that general traffic lanes are being removed to install bus lanes? by saying " EXACTLY WRONG". Give me a break! |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:07:51 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:26:21 2016. The final project may never be installed and now is very much in doubt.So you are admitting that if only Phase 1 is installed, there will not be fewer problems but more of them? |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:09:41 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:27:35 2016. I do not believe so so why would they suddenly make it available?They wouldn't. So to say LOS data will show traffic will be improved is a moot point if we never see the data. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:12:37 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:02:40 2016. "Isn't it possible that during the first year many riders decided to try SBS because of all the hype so ridership increased during the first year."Yes, but those people would be insignificant in number to matter. "But during the second year they realized they really weren't saving time or machines started to break down more often causing needless hassle or they received summonses unfairly and decide to resume their former traffic patterns during the second year so ridership declined. Or perhaps enforcement declined during the second year and fare evasion increased leading to lower ridership numbers but not really reduced ridership." LOL. And the aliens could also tell them not to ride SBS in 2014. THAT MUST BE IT! but wait...ridership went down systemwide, so that probably isn't it. "All those are distinct possibilities that would be reflected in second year statistics not the first." All of those distinct possibilities. Yeah, distinctly absurd. "THERE IS NO REASON THE BELIEVE THAT FIRST YEAR STATISTICS TELL THE ENTIRE STORY ABOUT THE EFFCTIVENESS OF SBS." Actually there is. It is called isolating a variable. In most cases, transit in the area did not substantially change outside of the SBS improvements. Therefore you can look at before and after the changes and see what they did. You are correct with regards to some of the lines- The M60 surely DID have other changes affecting it, as LGA had a new route added which serves much of the same market as the M60 did. "There are far too many variables to determine success entirely from the first year statistics." Certainly, but it tells you SOMETHING. Comparing ridership of two years AFTER the changes tells you ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the changes. "Also since B44 ridership declined during the first year, does that mean it didn't work and should be discontinued?" No. Ridership is by no means the only measure of success. "Or should changes be attempted to try to make it successful?" YES!, but there is no reason to call it unsuccessful. Changes should always be considered to make it MORE successful. "I would think the latter." Of course! " But if we made changes, second and third year statistics would be meaningless according to you because ONLY THE FIRST YEAR MATTERS AND NOTHING ELSE." NO. The first year would still be ALL THAT MATTERS with regards to the first set of changes. The second to third year would then be ALL THAT MATTERS with regards to the second set of changes. You really need to learn the concept of ISOLATING VARIABLES. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:13:26 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:29:28 2016. Okay, I should have read further. The first statement was misleading.If wickipedia stated "Lincoln McMahon" is an idiot, I would believe that, but they do not publish opinions. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:13:46 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:06:17 2016. "No the street is not being fully rebuilt during Phase 1."Correct. "And Phase 2 is very much in doubt at this point." Incorrect. "Now you are denying that general traffic lanes are being removed to install bus lanes? by saying " EXACTLY WRONG"." Never said that. "Give me a break!" LOL. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:15:33 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:07:51 2016. "The final project may never be installed and now is very much in doubt."In your mind. If such were to come to pass it would be unfortunate that your campaign to make public transit less functional had succeeded. I am thankful however that it appears that our elected and appointed officials are smart enough in general not to listen to you. "So you are admitting that if only Phase 1 is installed, there will not be fewer problems but more of them?" No. I am merely stating that the improvements will not be as great. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:15:56 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:33:31 2016. Right turns are not being eliminated, but I believe the plan includes sidewalk extensions prior to the intersection (I previously inaccurately called them bus bulbs).The right turn lane and through lane will be shared so the through capacity will be reduced. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:16:33 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:37:46 2016. Read my other comment about the B44. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:17:52 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:09:41 2016. Why would you assume they would make it readily available if they don't normally?I am not the one saying that normally unreleased data not being released is indicative of a coverup. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:19:33 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:13:26 2016. So I can add something to the list.Things Allan Rosen does not understand: Traffic Transportation Algebra Numbers in general WI |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:20:19 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:15:56 2016. "The right turn lane and through lane will be shared so the through capacity will be reduced." The right turn lane will be separate from the three through lanes, so capacity will not be reduced. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:20:46 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:16:33 2016. That is nowhere near specific enough for me to know what comment you are talking about. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:22:37 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:44:38 2016. "But traffic cannot be "handled" at the peak hour. Prior to bus lanes traffic was heavy but moving during the peak hour. Given the fact that there is great variation from day to day. Some days when I used it daily there was about one day a week where traffic did not move at all and many had to use side streets or alternate routes as an alternative. So for you to make a blanket statement like the peak hour is successfully "handled" currently with and without bus lanes is totally wrong."Of course there will be accidents or other issues on occasion. Nobody is denying that. Using side streets and alternative routes is not a bad thing. It has to happen from time to time. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:25:50 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:37:30 2016. "But those benefits have to first be clearly shown before changes are made. DOT has not done that. Merely stating a bus can hold more passengers than two cars is not enough. They have to show that significant numbers of people would be willing to change modes. No one as even hinted at that."There is no need to show such. "If you do want to get people to switch you must do other things line reroute and change bus routes as well as add new ones, change the fare and transfer structure or build park and ride lots." Where the hell are you going to put a park and ride lot on Woodhaven??? Besides I believe they are not building in any assumption of car use reduction, so there is no need to do so. "SBS proposes none of that and is bein planned in a vacuum which is my problem with it. The proposed B82 SBS is not even being proposed to be extended to connect with the Cross Bay Blvd SBS to create a network." You know, there is nothing preventing a SBS rider from transferring to a non-sbs route. "You can have all the theory you want and it doesn't matter when you don't have the specifics." He has the theory AND the specifics down, you have neither. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:32:27 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:48:42 2016. Yes between closure and removal the existing West Street service road was the only capacity AND TRAFFIC WAS HORRIFIC. Nothing was moving until the road was widened. So exactly what is your point?Yes traffic lights reduce capacity but we were comparing Miller Highway without lights and the widened West Street with lights so my point was since traffic wasn't free flowing much of the time on the highway the difference in speeds after the highway was removed and after West Street was widened was not that significant. You can make an absurd statement like "all ten of you" with zero data to back that up is quite okay when you make it. But if I state the number is significant, I need to have data to prove it. It also was on,y one example. What about otters coming from the east that would shift to the Van Wyck and further slow it down? The point us eventually equilibrium will be found which will result in longer trips time wise for everyone. And me not making that trip anymore is meaningless because most certainly I was replaced by someone else who did not previously make the trip. Where is your data to show Rogers is not substantially different today? I have not seen any data from the MTA or DOT. Have you? If the alternatives to Woodhaven took longer before, they will now be competitive or be quicker after Woodhaven travel tines greatly increase due to the reduced capacity resulting from removal of general traffic lanes. The increased green times from elminating left turns will not make up for the reduction of a general traffic lane. Also for through capacity to increase ALL LEFT TURNS would have to be eliminated not some to enable the progressive lights to increase capacity. And if priority signals for buses are put in, that would also mess up the progressive signals for general traffic. So I have real doubts about eliminTing left turns actually increasing through capacity. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:33:15 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:53:39 2016. Where did I say that? |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:33:42 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:54:42 2016. Time will tell. |
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| (311505) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:35:13 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:56:24 2016. So in one post you say the purpose of exclusive bus lanes is not to speed up buses and in the next you say it is. Make up your mind. |
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| (311506) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:35:55 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:35:13 2016. I never said either statement.Learn how to read. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by fdtutf on Mon Mar 14 16:38:52 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:19:33 2016. Data analysis |
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| (311508) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:42:57 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:02:36 2016. When cars need to make a right turn they first have to slow down. That means that a car going through also has to slow down behind him and possibly just miss the green signal. So it certainly does affect capacity when it is not a dedicated right turn lane.Just because you have two other supporters here DOES NOT MEAN IT HELPS A LOT MORE THAN IT HURTS. DOT and the MTA would have to prove that by sharing the results of it Transportation Planning Model. THEY HAVEN'T DONE THAT. So we have ZERO data that shows more are helped than hurt when considering those who are not in buses. And judging from the fact that bus riders are in the extreme minority, one bus rider would have to save more time than six or so drivers and passengers would lose. That is just not likely especially when you consider that the exclusive lanes will save bus riders time only for a few hours a day and cars will lose time for most of the day. |
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| (311509) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 16:43:06 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 16:32:27 2016. "Yes between closure and removal the existing West Street service road was the only capacity AND TRAFFIC WAS HORRIFIC. Nothing was moving until the road was widened. So exactly what is your point?Yes traffic lights reduce capacity but we were comparing Miller Highway without lights and the widened West Street with lights so my point was since traffic wasn't free flowing much of the time on the highway the difference in speeds after the highway was removed and after West Street was widened was not that significant." And it still gets backed up today. I think West Street is a perfect example of traffic mirroring capacity, which was the initial point. "You can make an absurd statement like "all ten of you" with zero data to back that up is quite okay when you make it. But if I state the number is significant, I need to have data to prove it. It also was on,y one example. What about otters coming from the east that would shift to the Van Wyck and further slow it down? The point us eventually equilibrium will be found which will result in longer trips time wise for everyone." Ten was a flippant remark obviously not meant to be taken seriously. I am not saying there isn't any demand Woodside-Sheepshead, but to accept that such is large, I CERTAINLY would need to see data. "And me not making that trip anymore is meaningless because most certainly I was replaced by someone else who did not previously make the trip." Your replacement in Woodside also lives in Sheepshead bay? What a coincidence! "Where is your data to show Rogers is not substantially different today? I have not seen any data from the MTA or DOT. Have you?" Where is your data to show it is? "If the alternatives to Woodhaven took longer before, they will now be competitive or be quicker after Woodhaven travel tines greatly increase due to the reduced capacity resulting from removal of general traffic lanes. The increased green times from elminating left turns will not make up for the reduction of a general traffic lane." Except for the fact that they likely will, as just as before, Woodhaven will have three lanes throughout. The change will be that there are fewer additional lanes in select locations than there are today. Also for through capacity to increase ALL LEFT TURNS would have to be eliminated not some to enable the progressive lights to increase capacity. And if priority signals for buses are put in, that would also mess up the progressive signals for general traffic. So I have real doubts about eliminTing left turns actually increasing through capacity. |
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