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| Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Manhattan (183118) | |
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| (183478) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Manhattan |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Jan 24 22:24:11 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Manhattan, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Jan 23 02:56:59 2010. M66: Overnight service discontinued 1 AM to 5 AM, seven days a week.This is insane. This route makes an operating profit. It's one of the last ones you'd want to cut. |
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| (183479) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed) |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jan 24 22:27:00 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed), posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jan 24 22:21:46 2010. It was cool. Also, I had enough credits in my senior year where I did not have to stay in school the whole day. There were 10 bands each day (A thru J), and I remember having "D" band dismissal some days. I got to do some great bus and subway riding back then. :-) |
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| (183486) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Manhattan |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Jan 24 22:40:48 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Manhattan, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Jan 24 22:24:11 2010. However, the M66 has only 25 affected riders at night. If they need the service, they can use the M79. |
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| (183488) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Sun Jan 24 22:47:40 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus, posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Jan 24 19:15:23 2010. Hell no, those seats are POS. Keep them at LIB. |
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| (183493) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Jan 24 23:12:39 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus, posted by GOLD_12th on Sun Jan 24 22:47:40 2010. They can always be reseated. I don't think they would keep a 2x2 seating arrangement for the city. |
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| (183501) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed) |
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Posted by B1bus on Sun Jan 24 23:53:36 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed), posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jan 24 22:27:00 2010. When I first went, there were 5 cycles (semesters a year),7 weeks each, then it went to 4 cycles ,9 weeks each.Grades were ME mastery with excellence(A) M(B), MC (mastery with conditions)(C) and R (retention) or (F) |
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| (183503) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed) |
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Posted by B1bus on Sun Jan 24 23:56:07 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed), posted by JAzumah on Sun Jan 24 09:55:17 2010. Riding around on the buses, I HAVE been wondering why all these cars have out of state lisence plates.However , if ones residence is 186 days in another state, that is where your live "full time". |
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| (183508) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed) |
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Posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Mon Jan 25 00:26:18 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed), posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jan 24 22:11:37 2010. Thats pretty much how I remembered Murrow...... |
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| (183509) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Jan 25 01:54:00 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Jan 24 21:45:27 2010. Quick thought while looking through the PDF, why not limit the Jones Beach buses to weekends as opposed to eliminating the routes entirely? |
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| (183561) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn |
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Posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Mon Jan 25 17:01:32 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn, posted by B49 Limited on Sat Jan 23 03:28:45 2010. The B57 will take over the B75 route from Downtown Brookyn to Smith-9th Street.The B69 will probably will stay on its route until GAP, travel on Union St to 7Ave and take over the B67 route to its original terminal....... |
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| (183576) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jan 25 19:23:47 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus, posted by R40SlantontheB on Sun Jan 24 17:58:24 2010. Yes, I'm saying this could be done as opposed to eliminating it |
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| (183601) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 25 21:55:31 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn, posted by B49 Limited on Sat Jan 23 03:28:45 2010. I'll try to keep this brief cause I could go on forever.I'll just address four points. B 67/69 Actually, this is one of their better ideas if efficiency and saving operating costs is what you are after. The problem is they are not being honesst and not telling you everything. But believe me, I know them well enough and how they think to know the real reason they want to make this change. They intend to cut B67 service in half at the next pick after the change is made. They figure that if they do that, the 67 will be so crowded and come so infrequently, that people from Park Slope going to Downtown Brooklyn will take the first bus that comes even if it is the B69. They want them to get off at Sands Street and then walk to south of Tillary Street for their destination. Will people do that, yes, only if they are forced to and B67 service is really bad. Is it ridiculous, yes. As I said if they left B67 service levels alone, it would not be a bad idea but certainly not a service improvement, just inconvenience a few people. But it only saves them money if they cut B67 service. Second Point. B1/64 or B86. The history is almost as bad as the Second Avenue Subway. It goes back way before the 1990s. It was first proposed to the TA by Community Boards 10 and 11 in the 1960s. Of course, they showed no interest. In 1974, I thought of it independently while working at the Department of City Planning. I studied and planned my changes for four years, negotiating with the TA. Everyone agrees that the 86th Street route is a great idea. The problem is what to do with the other routes. After three weeks of study, I eliminated the alternative that the the MTA is now proposing to simple swap the routes, as an unwise move. (Don't have the time to explain why) The alternative I came up with was much more complex. Anyway, the 86th Street combination that exists today at 25th Avenue, was the only part of the 86th Street plan for a single route that was accepted in 1978 along with a bunch of other changes. I coined the term B86. Around 1992, the TA revived the B1/ B64 combination actually proposing to call it the B86. The number and destinations were even programmed onto the digital signs. I opposed it then and still oppose it because it hurts too many people. This is not the way to get the B86. Anyway at the last minute after studying it for two years, the TA killed their entire plan, which also included F expresses, due to a budget crisis. Now they've revived it again. That's it in a nutshell. Point 3. Not going to get into it, but I'm hurt personally by the proposal to discontinue the eastern portion of the B4, because that was the part of the route I designed all by myself (except for the move to the Shore Parkway south service road whioh the TA made some time later) The last point I'll address is your last statement: Someone please tell me how can I be in charge in operations planning. What b***$*** degree do I need to get to smack some idiots over there in the MTA LOL You are blaming the wrong people. It's not the planning people who are to blame. If you want to blame someone, blame the budget people and the ones above them. Trust me, you wouldn't want to be in charge of Operations Planning. If you are unhappy now about what's going on, you would be unhappier if you were in charge of OP. They get their marching orders from Budget. They are told by Budget, Cut _________ Dollars, and that's what they do. They usually don't make the best choices and make plenty of mistakes, but if you think that being head of OP allows to make positive changes, you are wrong, not with the constraints they ae working under. I was head of Bus Planning and I saw what they allowed me to do. Very little, and to get those things done, I had to do them on the sly and not through official channels. I don't personally know him, but I think Peter is a decent guy. He's not the problem. You want to know what degree you need to do Planning at the MTA, I'll tell you. You need a Finance or Mathematics degree, not a Planning Degree. Does that tell you something? Looks like I failed at being brief. |
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| (183622) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Mon Jan 25 23:48:34 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 25 21:55:31 2010. It tells me a lot ...lol That is ok for your overview. We can have conversation about this without getting into a shouting match.lolin terms of the B 67/69, I knew it because there is no way this combo would work unless they make a cut in the B 67. in terms of the B 4. It is a bad idea. You still need another east - west route to serve Sheepshed bay.. If anything the modernization is needed on the western end, don't you think? Also to add on, it puts more pressure on the B 36, which is not a good thing. the B 4 has benefits, but as I told you about my theories, you mess with the waiting times, customers would not wait for the bus, you add more service, they will come. the B 86 idea, I would love to know more about the history of resolving the B 1 and 64 problem. I agree it is a big problem if it becomes official. This route would impact so many neighborhoods and I don't think just a simple swap is the solution to the problem. This new B 64 does not benefit anyone. I am (admitting) blaming the wrong people, thank you for giving me a better perspective of the matter, but I am starting to see if these changes happen, this might be the breaking point where the people, politians, want to see the end of MTA. If Peter can fix the MTA and bring back the trust to the riders, I surely wish him good luck. What I do know is that he is being put to the test and I know if I was in his shoes, it would be miserable at first but it is a great challenge. |
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| (183628) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 26 00:13:51 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn, posted by B49 Limited on Mon Jan 25 23:48:34 2010. Do you think anyone in Park Slope is smart enough to see what is going on with the B67. It's the B69 riders who will show up at the hearing. The B67 riders think their route will remain unchanged. And they wouldn't even get a chance for a hearing because it will be considered a routine service cut.We agree on B4. Nothing to talk about. What makes you think that Peter will do anything for the riders even if he does care about them? He has to show his bosses he cares about the budget not the riders. What would you do if you were in his shoes knowing that a previous head of OP who cared about the riders only lasted 6 months in that position? Would you approve changes that saved money and hurt riders or presented proposals that helped riders and didn't cost anything. Remember your goal is to save money. Do you still want the job? I don't know what else to want to know about the history of resolving the B1/64 problem. If you want to know what I would do, go to my website which I'm sure you know about, http://brooklynbus.tripod.com (Cut and paste. I'm to lazy to look up the HTML.) but remember it doesn't save money in the short run. You have to layout some cash which the MTA doesn't have right now. It only pays for itself after its been in operation for a while and has had a chance to attract new riders. In business they know that you have to give a little to get a little. The MTA doesn't. If they were to consider opening up a supermarket, they would figure out how much it would cost to open and then assume that no one would shop there and start projecting their losses. Then they would decide that they couldn't make money, say they did the analysis and it would not be good business, so they are abandoning the idea. |
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| (183630) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 26 00:18:56 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn, posted by B49 Limited on Mon Jan 25 23:48:34 2010. By the way, I got no responses to the e-mail I sent out regarding starting a group and that includes you.Doesn't matter now anyway. With the release of these service cuts, what I had in mind would have just been a waste of time anyway. |
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| (183633) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Tue Jan 26 00:28:58 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 26 00:18:56 2010. Weird... I did not get any emails from you. I would have to send you my alternative email address.Also I would not give up yet. Even with these cuts if the group can find ways to financially save money for the MTA and benefit riders, anything is possible. |
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| (183636) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Tue Jan 26 00:40:14 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 26 00:18:56 2010. Also I am still want to get involved |
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| (183669) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 26 11:31:31 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn, posted by B49 Limited on Tue Jan 26 00:40:14 2010. So why didn't you answer the e-mail? |
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| (183713) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Tue Jan 26 20:07:30 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 26 11:31:31 2010. I never got it. I posted my new e - mail address resend it to me. I will respond. |
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| (183716) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn |
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Posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Tue Jan 26 20:17:18 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn, posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Mon Jan 25 17:01:32 2010. Remove the "take over B67 part". I didnt realize that both the B69 and B67 will be running on 7Ave... |
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| (183730) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 26 22:12:03 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn, posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Tue Jan 26 20:17:18 2010. I think he meant to say "run over" the B67 route, not "take over." |
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| (183733) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jan 26 22:43:16 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Jan 25 01:54:00 2010. Might be pressure on the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation to pony up money...or on Live Nation to pony up money to hire private shuttles (i.e., Academy). |
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| (183950) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus |
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Posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Thu Jan 28 21:05:30 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Jan 23 03:27:41 2010. Im glad that I didnt move to Elmont like originally planned. I wouldve near the N1, N2, and N6. At least the N6 have 24/7 service to Queens..... |
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| (183951) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus |
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Posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Thu Jan 28 21:07:52 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals---Long Island Bus, posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Thu Jan 28 21:05:30 2010. Im glad that I didnt move to Elmont like I originally planned. I wouldve live near the N1, N2, and N6. At least the N6 have 24/7 service to Queens.... |
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| (183952) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed) |
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Posted by Marc A. Rivlin on Thu Jan 28 22:18:19 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed), posted by N6 Limited on Sun Jan 24 01:04:54 2010. I appreciate your point and agree that there are several lines whose use have not justified their frequencies for years, but I think the collapse of the real estate market and real estate transfer tax revenue are more immediate causes of these two fees/taxes than inefficient bus routes. MTA efficiency or inefficiency on all levels as well as stable and adequate state and local transit funding are another matter entirely. |
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| (183954) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed) |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Thu Jan 28 23:15:47 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed), posted by Marc A. Rivlin on Thu Jan 28 22:18:19 2010. "I think the collapse of the real estate market and real estate transfer tax revenue are more immediate causes of these two fees/taxes than inefficient bus routes. MTA efficiency or inefficiency on all levels as well as stable and adequate state and local transit funding are another matter entirely. "I disagree. It was the high level of subsidy that has allowed these inefficient service to continue for years at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars per year (including subway, lirr, metro North, bridges and tunnels) . This has lead to a deficit that could have been predicted as the real estate and economy are cyclical. |
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| (183975) | |
Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 29 10:48:21 2010, in response to Re: MTA service cut proposals by borough---Brooklyn (All listed), posted by brightonr68 on Thu Jan 28 23:15:47 2010. So what are you saying that if there is a predicted deline in the economy, the MTA should start reducing service before it might be warranted? That makes no sense to me.Yes some service is inefficient, but I don't think that is even the major issue, because I don't believe that efficiency of bus service should even be the major goal. The service must also be effective which is just as important. The most efficent service you could have is where all the buses are always operating at peak capacity and there is a queue of people at each stop waiting to get on. Buses would be very slow and the people wouldn't be adequately served, but in terms of dollars received to money being expended to run those services, the efficiency would be extremely high. I agree that high levels of subsidies, however, encourages waste, by eliminating the desire to find and eliminate waste, if they can always request and receive more subsidies. The purpose of increasing tolls on the TBTA bridges was to provide more money to fund the buses and trains, since the roads didn't need the extra money, but the subways did, and was regarded as a social good. But the MTA decides to spend much of the toll money on the railroads, not to where it was intended to go. That has to be addressed. |
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