|
|
| Re: Canarsie CBTC (96616) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 4 of 8 |
||
|
| (98653) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 10:44:57 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by AlM on Sun Jun 12 08:41:28 2005. When I worked for NYNEX I was aware of a contract bid that my colleague was managing that definitely involved material changes from the RFP. All the bids came in too expensive, so in the negotiation process the end contract got significantly changed from the RFP.Let me suggest a common scenario that might have happened. One of the companies stated in its proposal that if certain changes to the specifications were made then it had a design approach that would significantly reduce the cost. This bidder may also have included some technical information regarding this change in his proposal. This bidder also stated that the information in the proposal could not be divulged by NYNEX to other parties without the bidder's consent. None of the other bidders presented in their proposal any suggestion by which the cost might be reduced. At this point NYNEX was free to discuss material changes with this bidder and was not under any obligation to notify the other bidders of any changes to the specifications. |
|
|
| (98808) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 16:48:05 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by H.S.Relay on Tue Jun 14 06:37:56 2005. If you're talking about a biphase shaft encoder on the axle, then it isn't there. If you're talking about an inductive probe sensing gear teeth back by the motor, then it's not there. There are provisions for future mounting of the above devices on the trucks.That is what I was talking about. It is possible to have a closed loop motor controller that uses the current as the feedback. However, they are not as effective as those that use the motor speed. They did advertise the propulsion units as being closed loop. Snake oil? |
|
|
| (98880) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 19:34:33 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jun 14 03:11:25 2005. Sequitur?Let me rub some salt into the wound by answering your question a different way. :=) A zone controller failure should not have any impact. According to the early specs that I read, there would be dual controllers for each zone. They would run master/slave with automatic cutover should one of them fail. Such technology is widely used, so it should not prove to be any challenge to implement. I understand that the best that can be said for the standard track circuit system failure is that the trains will stop running. Told you, you wouldn't like the answer. :=) Am I enough of a realist to believe that the TA would not repair/replace a damaged zone controller in a timely manner. This was the same outfit that ran dual power cables for their track circuits on the Lex. I assume the only difference was that the switching of power cables was manual, not automatic. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (98909) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jun 14 21:09:15 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 19:34:33 2005. I understand that the best that can be said for the standard track circuit system failure is that the trains will stoprunning. If one track circuit fails in the existing automatic block system, trains receive permission to key by. If it is a really hot area, a supervisor will be sent down to give permission directly and keep trains moving. It doesn't shut down an entire line or section. That's an interesting "early spec". I wonder if it is really implemented that way. I wonder if fail-over testing will be done? |
|
|
| (98911) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jun 14 21:13:06 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 16:48:05 2005. I'm trying to picture the R142/R143 traction motors. They havethe 3 heavy phase conductor leads coming out, but I don't recall a tach output. I could be wrong though. As you said, there are other ways. Control of the torque and speed of an induction motor doesn't require tach feedback. It can be done easily through current sensing. Vector (position) control is tougher to do this way (although reasonably practical if you have an accurate model of the motor's characteristics). |
|
|
| (98913) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jun 14 21:15:54 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 08:59:54 2005. Uh oh, you may be close to discovering the correct answerto this question: True or False: The canarsie line CBTC implementation is a "moving block" system. |
|
|
| (98914) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Jun 14 21:18:09 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 16:48:05 2005. More likely that you simply don't know what's going on there, and you're not going to bother to ask someone who does. |
|
|
| (98916) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Jun 14 21:22:28 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jun 14 21:15:54 2005. Your question implies that the two of you have some basis for knowing what the answer is. That implication is false. |
|
|
| (98934) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 21:49:16 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jun 14 21:09:15 2005. That's an interesting "early spec". I wonder if it is really implemented that way. I wonder if fail-over testing will be done?There was also a lot about interoperability in that same document. :=) In the general CBTC vs. track circuit argument, this is certainly a design tool that should limit the zone controller impact (MTBF). Is it being used on the Canarsie Line? Only Siemens knows. |
|
|
| (98944) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 21:57:22 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jun 14 21:13:06 2005. Control of the torque and speed of an induction motor doesn't require tach feedback. It can be done easily through current sensing. Vector (position) control is tougher to do this way (although reasonably practical if you have an accurate model of the motor's characteristics).I do remember the R142 description on Bombardier's website mentioned closed loop control for the AC traction motors. Tach outputs are pretty cheap, so it seems the logical way to go. Then again, the TA did have the vendors change the propulsion package during the R142 acceptance tests after some trains were caught speeding. I wonder :=) One problem with using only current feedback is that you can no longer account for variability between motors. |
|
|
| (98952) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 22:14:45 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jun 14 21:15:54 2005. True or False: The canarsie line CBTC implementation is a "moving block" system.I'd never given that question any thought because I've never believed that a"moving block" system provided any significant capacity increase over a properly designed "fixed block" system. Certainly, that article describing the placement of optical markers every 600 feet and the inability to discover any carborne equipment capable of determining speed and position points to a fixed block system. Unfortunately, if that article is correct in that the markers are placed at fixed intervals, then it will be a poorly designed fixed block system. |
|
|
| (98962) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by tracksionmotor on Tue Jun 14 22:34:09 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jun 14 21:13:06 2005. IF I remember correctly, Bombardier R142s have no motor tach output.However, the motor goes to a gearbox which drives the axles which have a gear wheel like automobiles use for anti-lock brakes that's scanned by an inductive pick-up. The PCE package also monitors curent/power demand of the tractionmotors along with everything else available on downloads and 'black box.' NYCTA 'New Tech' has brakes on all eight wheels. The 1999 Paris rubber tired units have brakes on seven wheels...the eigth wheel is always accurate for speed and distance. This is the cause of error when trainsets 'get lost' and prematurely announce stations. In London, the Bombardier trainsets are 'tweeked' by transponders for correction. Trainset...tractionmotor...gearbox...anti-lock brake sensor (no 'slip and slide' traction control on R142s yet)...wheel diameter/distance/speed...PCE IGBT current sensing....all go to the system computer for analysis. Speedometer remains the VDO microwave Doppler, independent of trainset systems. Anyone with a tuning fork??? CI peter |
|
|
| (98965) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 22:39:45 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by tracksionmotor on Tue Jun 14 22:34:09 2005. Speedometer remains the VDO microwave Doppler, independent of trainset systemsThe problem is that the TA put so much damping on that readout that it is useless for dead reckoning or motor control. |
|
|
| (98969) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by tracksionmotor on Tue Jun 14 22:42:58 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 22:14:45 2005. To my knowledge, Canarsie CBTC was to my suprise NOT microwave transponder with SpringBok software BUT internet wireless protocolsans optical markers...check my posts on eight braked wheels versus seven in Paris. The article that breaks it all down is in the May issue of RailwayAge....'CBTC: A tale of three cities.' CI peter |
|
|
| (98973) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by tracksionmotor on Tue Jun 14 22:54:27 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 22:39:45 2005. It provides NOTHING to the system....gives an apparent means ofspeed display to the T/O. There must be some old Jay Street protocol that specifies the VDO gauge in trainsets. WAVE TEST: On a powered up trainset, wave your hand in front of the Doppler speed sensor and observe a change in the display. Takes two people...I'd open the cab door and LH passenger doors, hang from the platform edge and wiggle my right foot until I squinted 5 mph. Test complete. I asked only ONCE for the tuning fork. CI peter |
|
|
| (98982) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 14 23:15:19 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Jun 14 08:54:28 2005. Air-filled COAXIAL cable at that! AT&T used radio over some of those links way back when. Feds paid for it all ... |
|
|
| (98991) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by tracksionmotor on Tue Jun 14 23:43:43 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Jun 14 08:54:28 2005. Reception for Jenkins motion picture broadcasts was dual mode OTA...AM radio for aural, shortwave for video. The President Wilson broadcasts went over a combination of twisted pair and shortwave and not available to the public. AT&T pioneered AM circuits for international telephone and SSB for cable, not having a clue that SSB was so very able for HF radio. SSB was experimented with vigor after WW2 and it wasn't until the USAF teamed up with Collins Radio in the fifties that it took off. BTW: my mother set up PicturePhone circuits in the early sixties. CI peter |
|
|
| (98994) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 14 23:53:53 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by tracksionmotor on Mon Jun 13 22:27:28 2005. Ah yes, sweet Atlantic Research "interrogator" boxes. :)So tell us what happens when some genius decides that maybe a 2KW Collins will work a LITTLE better without that cap across the mod transformer? (grin) |
|
|
| (98996) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Jun 14 23:56:56 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 14 23:15:19 2005. Thank you! |
|
|
| (99003) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by tracksionmotor on Wed Jun 15 00:16:20 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 14 23:53:53 2005. Sparks are nice, especially with high level modulation. None of the equipment I worked on had modulation transformers....it was all AME/CW/SSB/ISB/FSK. My AR unit can generate words like RY and CQ...receiver left much to be desired.From the days when 60 baud fiver level ran the show...100 baud was Cadillac! My circa 1974 Yaesu KW AME has renowned audio on the eighty meter band amongst the guys running ressurection radio. |
|
|
| (99013) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 15 00:51:56 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Jun 14 23:56:56 2005. You're welcome ... just to be THOROUGHLY accurate though, that coax was Nitrogen-pressurized. |
|
|
| (99014) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 15 00:58:05 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by tracksionmotor on Wed Jun 15 00:16:20 2005. Ah, you missed the days of the late 1940'2/early 50's Collins jobs. Worked out in the skeeter factories there in Sea-caucus with all them big metal sticks sticking out of the swamps with the big red blinky-lights. Trained in how to PROPERLY tune up common mode points by the famous Gil Abbey and Mitch Katz. Saw the days when radio was just turning to qwap for a paycheck and some of the geniuses out there who wanted to "up the fidelty" of some of the 1K and 5K Collins bly clipping that nasty 0.01 across the mod transformer. Made the sidebands nice and almost as crisp as the cores a few hours after the "surgery."I got to clean up the remains. :) |
|
|
| (99019) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by tracksionmotor on Wed Jun 15 01:53:07 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 15 00:51:56 2005. Guess you never used a floor pump with silica packs. Open wire ladderline is the best to feed that hungry Beverage or Rhombic. Ahhh the smell fron the termination shack...priceless. CI peter |
|
|
| (99020) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 15 01:58:21 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by tracksionmotor on Wed Jun 15 01:53:07 2005. Heh. 150 and 600 ohm had its advantages, but the skin effect was a killer. For all we tease MTA for, they at least chose better than what WE grew up with as "acceptable." :) |
|
|
| (99022) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by tracksionmotor on Wed Jun 15 02:00:05 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 15 00:58:05 2005. The caps across the modulation transformer softened the peaks.Crosley rules, uncontestedly with 500 KW of high level AM plate modulation. Site is now a national treasure. I missed the last trips from Dayton to VOA. At least a very small part of my former work remains....CHU and WWV. 'CHU Canada Eastern Daylight Time...two hours, zero minutes.' CI peter |
|
|
| (99023) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by tracksionmotor on Wed Jun 15 02:05:39 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 21:49:16 2005. Waddayah do when 'check engine light' comes on. CI peter |
|
|
| (99025) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Jeff H. on Wed Jun 15 02:14:20 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 21:57:22 2005. It depends on what you mean by "closed loop", i.e. where doesthe loop close on itself? One of the setpoints is motor torque, but I doubt anyone would propose introducing a rotating strain gauge on the motor output shaft. So instead you measure a related variable. Modern induction motors are very consistent and presumably they are tested by the manufacturer for adherence to the curve. At manufacturing, factors such as stretching the enamel wire during the stator winding, cross-sectional area of the rotor conductors, and air gap, could affect the motor parameters by a few percent. Once in service, I would suspect temperature would be the #1 source of variability. The internal dimensions of the motor are not going to change measurably as these are ball and/or roller bearing motors, not sleeve bearings. The propulsion package mod on the Bomb cars was software only. |
|
|
| (99027) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Jeff H. on Wed Jun 15 02:15:58 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Jun 14 21:22:28 2005. Your answer implies that you have some basis for knowing whatinformation I know. That implication is false. |
|
|
| (99028) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 15 02:17:49 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by tracksionmotor on Wed Jun 15 02:00:05 2005. They also did a great job of reducing RF going back into the "balanced line" ... but in COLLINS transmitters, if you took those out, the transformer would eventually FAIL. Took a few days, but once you had one shorted turn ... well ... :) |
|
|
| (99035) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by tracksionmotor on Wed Jun 15 02:53:04 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Jeff H. on Wed Jun 15 02:14:20 2005. Getting too tekky...far beyond scope of trainset design. What you see on internet is not always what you get. AC tractionmotors on R142s have zerk fittings but the CI who pumps FIVE TIMES to lubricatea trip cock would pump til grease bled (Mobil One) out the ends...TA specifies NO greasing with a lifespan of seven years. Propulsion package on Bombadier inclides a myriad of sensors not previously encountered in NYCTA subways. CI peter |
|
|
| (99036) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by tracksionmotor on Wed Jun 15 02:56:54 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 22:14:45 2005. What article are you reffering to? |
|
|
| (99051) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 15 06:54:38 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by tracksionmotor on Wed Jun 15 02:56:54 2005. What article are you reffering to?I was referring to the article referenced in my previous post. In particular to the paragraph that I quoted. |
|
|
| (99052) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by H.S.Relay on Wed Jun 15 07:00:40 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 14 19:34:33 2005. the best that can be said for the standard track circuit system failure is that the trains will stop running...stop?... There are operational rules in place to keep trains moving, at 10mph, through the area, which will be a few track circuits at worst. A Failed CBTC train MUST have an open railroad between it and the next interlocking, and will also be operating at 10mph -but for a longer distance. |
|
|
| (99053) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by H.S.Relay on Wed Jun 15 07:02:32 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jun 14 21:09:15 2005. The ZCs are indeed tandemed. Their control areas also overlap one another, for dual double-secret backup-to-the-backup. |
|
|
| (99055) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 15 07:11:42 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by tracksionmotor on Tue Jun 14 23:43:43 2005. AT&T pioneered AM circuits for international telephone and SSB for cable, not having a clue that SSB was so very able for HF radio. SSB was experimented with vigor after WW2 and it wasn't until the USAF teamed up with Collins Radio in the fifties that it took off.SSB was invented by Bell Labs' John Carsons. It is quite likely that AT&T had a patent on it. HF radio manufacturers would have had to pay Bell a royalty. Possibly, they preferred to wait out the patent. |
|
|
| (99086) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 10:02:22 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Jeff H. on Wed Jun 15 02:15:58 2005. "Your answer implies that you have some basis for knowing whatinformation I know" Wrong assumption on your part. I know what you do not know, and what you do not know is what Siemens is doing. Your previous posts have also made clear that you really don't know much about CBTC. And it doesn't take an expert to figure out where you start to flounder. |
|
|
| (99087) | |
Re: Communications |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 10:06:41 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 15 07:11:42 2005. The 1940s to 1960s were a genuine "golden age" for Bell Labs. The inventions that happened, the ground-breaking communication theories worked out (all these led to more than one Nobel Prize) helped shape the communication landscape in the future, even to this day.I fear that when "Bell Labs" as we used to know it was broken up - something was lost. |
|
|
| (99089) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Alex L. on Wed Jun 15 10:13:54 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 10:02:22 2005. I know what you do not know, and what you do not know is what Siemens is doing.Well, since you do know what Siemens is doing - the implication of what you just said in the quote above - why not spare us all the agony and tell us. |
|
|
| (99090) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 10:19:45 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Alex L. on Wed Jun 15 10:13:54 2005. I don't know exactly what Siemens is doing.The difference between me and Jeff H is that Jeff H pretends to know, and then discusses that in great detail - which adds up to a lot of nonsense. I have advocated in more than one post that if you're truly interested in what Siemens is doing, tecynology wise on this project, you should go to the source and ask. Then you can debate the pros and cons of that all you want - but at least it willbe on something resembling reality. |
|
|
| (99097) | |
Re: Communications |
|
|
Posted by Fytton on Wed Jun 15 10:43:55 2005, in response to Re: Communications, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 10:06:41 2005. "The 1940s to 1960s were a genuine "golden age" for Bell Labs. The inventions that happened, the ground-breaking communication theories worked out (all these led to more than one Nobel Prize)..."Indeed - Shannon and Weaver, no less. I used to teach about them at one time.... (Getting OT here, though.) |
|
|
| (99099) | |
Re: Communications |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 10:52:32 2005, in response to Re: Communications, posted by Fytton on Wed Jun 15 10:43:55 2005. Well, Shannon and weaver made contributions for which you can draw a theoretical connection to CBTC (there, we're back on topic!)I remember read Shannon's paper 20+ years ago... |
|
|
| (99111) | |
Re: Communications |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 15 11:33:30 2005, in response to Re: Communications, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 10:06:41 2005. The 1940s to 1960s were a genuine "golden age" for Bell Labs.I did not bother doing any research regarding whether or not SSB had indeed been patented, when I wrote that post. I did have an idea of when it was invented and that was well before your 1940-1960 golden age. In fact, Carsons applied for the SSB patent in 1915; it was not granted until 1932. Carsons has a black cloud over his reputation. He wrote a paper in the 1920's regarding the feasibility and possible benefits of FM. He concluded that FM was impossible and would provide no benefits even if it could be realized. We had to wait until the 1930's for Armstrong to prove him wrong. Armstrong was not part of Bell Labs. |
|
|
| (99112) | |
Re: Communications |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 15 11:39:22 2005, in response to Re: Communications, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 10:52:32 2005. I remember read Shannon's paper 20+ years ago...Really? Which one? Did you understand any of it? |
|
|
| (99114) | |
Re: Communications |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 11:42:56 2005, in response to Re: Communications, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 15 11:33:30 2005. Thank you for those additional details.The German Wehrmacht made extensive use of FM radios in battle tanks in WWII. This gave them an advantage during Operatio Barbarossa in that the Sovciet Army's tank forces relied on AM radios (and many tanks had no radios at all). |
|
|
| (99116) | |
Re: Communications |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 11:48:09 2005, in response to Re: Communications, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 15 11:39:22 2005. There were two really seminal, important papers that I know of. The first was the theory of communication that he worked out in the 1940s. NYU has a nice page on it:http://www.nyu.edu/pages/linguistics/courses/v610003/shan.html Itwas required reading for my Communication Theory course at UCLA, taught by Dr. Pat French. The second is summarized as follows: "Besides Shannon's theory of communication, he published a classic paper "A Symbolic Analysis of Relay and Switching Circuits." This paper point out the identity between the two "truth values" of symbolic logic and the binary values 1 and 0 of electronic circuits. Shannon showed how a "logic machine" could be built using switching circuits corresponding to the propositions of Boolean algebra." |
|
|
| (99124) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Alex L. on Wed Jun 15 12:29:30 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 10:19:45 2005. From the Siemens web site:Automatic Train Supervision, NY Scope of supply includes the VICOS OC 501 operations control system, equipment for 469 stations, 205 interlockings and 6000 cars. VICOS OC 501 operations control system CBTC, NY PA/CIS system Marsha Estrin, Commercial Project Manager, New York, NY, U.S.A. I am the Commercial Project Manager for the CBTC Canarsie project in New York...The CBTC project is bringing new technology to the U.S. The customer believes in this technology, and once this project is successfully completed, the technology implemented on the Canarsie line can be used on other subway lines as well. Fully automatic train line for Barcelona In the case of the metro line in Barcelona, spread spectrum radio – introduced for the first time in the New York Subway – is being used as a component of the CBTC system (Communication Based Train Control). This Siemens development eliminates “radio pockets” and ensures that the trains can receive ‘Proceed’ signals in tunnels and can also transmit their respective positions and speeds to the operations control center at any time. Météor from the pdf available on this page - After 15 months' demonstration of the Météor system on a section of the Culver Line and a large number of detailed audits regarding safety, software, project management, etc., as well as a systematic review all the specifications of the system lasting 8 months, the boards of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and New York City Transit (NYCT) have decided to choose thehave decided to choose the Météor system as the Météor system as the resignaling standard forresignaling standard for modernization of the whole New York subway network.modernization of the whole New York subway network. New York There. I've done it. According to Siemens, the boards of both the MTA and the NYCT chose the Météor system as the re-signalling standard, Météor being the system that controls Paris' Line 14. Also according to Siemens "spread spectrum radio – introduced for the first time in the New York Subway – is being used as a component of the CBTC system". If something is being used for the first time in NYC, it obviously could not be part of what was agreed upon when picking a pre-existing system. |
|
|
| (99130) | |
Re: Communications |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 15 13:15:28 2005, in response to Re: Communications, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 11:48:09 2005. I really don't feel like spending $150 to get all of Shannon's published works.Itwas required reading for my Communication Theory course at UCLA, taught by Dr. Pat French. I thought I asked you whether you understood any of it. You yourself have stated that you spent many hours sleeping through your class lectures. For some reason Shanon's BSTJ papers "A Mathematical Theory of Communication" were not required reading when I took a course entitled "Advanced Topics in Information Theory", when I was a graduate student at MIT in the early 1960's. It was taught by Claude Shannon. I managed to pull an A between naps. |
|
|
| (99132) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 13:15:30 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by Alex L. on Wed Jun 15 12:29:30 2005. You've just begun to scratch the surface. You've learned some things along the way, and I comend you for posting those references.However, recall that during the thread Stephen and Jeff discussed CBTC in much more specific detail - detail not present on the PR references you posted. If either had bothered to contact Siemens it is possible they might have found someone willing to tell them more about the differences in each technoloical approach. But that would not serve the purpose of their posting ;0) |
|
|
| (99136) | |
Re: Communications |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 13:19:29 2005, in response to Re: Communications, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 15 13:15:28 2005. "You yourself have stated that you spent many hours sleeping through your class lectures."I never said that. I said this particular very photogenic instructor was a distraction to me, who was all of 19 years old. And yes, I did understand it. "I really don't feel like spending $150 to get all of Shannon's published works. " What's the matter? Did your stock options not fully vest? Alittle short on change? "For some reason Shanon's BSTJ papers "A Mathematical Theory of Communication" were not required reading when I took a course entitled "Advanced Topics in Information Theory", when I was a graduate student at MIT in the early 1960's. It was taught by Claude Shannon. I managed to pull an A between naps." Was it because he was a boring lecturer or you were a boring student? 8-) |
|
|
| (99246) | |
Re: Canarsie CBTC |
|
|
Posted by Jeff H. on Wed Jun 15 18:29:04 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie CBTC, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 15 10:02:22 2005. I know what you do not know, and what you do not know is what Siemens is doing.Do you monitor my telephone and email? Do you have a private investigator following me around to see who my contacts are? Do you really think the best way to find out what the vendor is really doing is to walk into their front door (or web site) and ask them? You'll get a generic sugar-coated answer from a suit. Your previous posts have also made clear that you really don't know much about CBTC I don't know as much about it as I do about conventional signaling, but I'd be willing to bet I understand the technical details (not the stuff you read in the NYT) a lot better than you do. |
|
|
|
Page 4 of 8 |
||
