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| Re: HBLR 8 Street extension (926395) | |
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| (926893) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 14:16:09 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 23 14:10:38 2010. Metroliners into Exchange place? No way.The property makes far more money now as Harborside. If you wanted to retain it, it would only make sense to use it for commuter trains. |
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| (926894) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Fri Apr 23 14:18:04 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 23 14:14:13 2010. After the M/V combo becoming a reality, I would never say never.The current Bayonne Bridge already has the space and provisions for railroad tracks and the expressway on the SI side has a very wide median. |
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| (926898) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 14:32:25 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Fri Apr 23 14:18:04 2010. We're not talking about physical limitations, but ones of politics. |
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| (926899) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 14:35:47 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 13:19:54 2010. SO do riders of buses into the PABT. And SI Ferry riders. |
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| (926900) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 23 14:38:14 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 14:16:09 2010. Think about it. Exchange Place was the closest electrified terminal to Wall Street. Not only would Metroliners have had a viable alternate terminal there (it was already a transportation hub), but creating the financial version of Exchange Place and Harborside would have happened sooner. |
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| (926901) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 23 14:39:56 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 10:58:08 2010. The E-L wasn't consolidated in the same manner. |
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| (926903) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 23 14:51:07 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 11:16:07 2010. That should have been done 90 years ago. In 1967, it was just too expensiveBut elevating the LVRR for several miles wasn't . . . ? Now, had the CNJ taken over Exchange Place in the 1950's... That was one of the things that the PRR proposed for the CNJ as part of the Aldene abomination. The ironic thing is, the CNJ's original waterfront terminal was at Exchange Place, when they used to run over the New Jersey RR from Elizabeth. |
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| (926906) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 15:00:32 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Tony Clifton on Fri Apr 23 13:21:58 2010. Newark Bay channel is 52' mean low water (It should be noted that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey has already dredged Contract Area 5 in the vicinity of Bergen Point, NJ to its authorized depth (50 ft.) under a Clean Water Act Section 404 permit action.(2005)), and using the scale on Google Maps, it's approximately 4000' from 8th Street to the edge of the bay.To the untrained eye, the station looks to be 25'-35' above grade. So the line would have to drop ~100' in ~4000' of length, so you get a grade of 2.5%, which IIRC is well within the performance characteristics of the HBLR cars. I did not look at the area on the opposite side of the bay where such a tunnel could resurface. |
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| (926909) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 23 15:06:08 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 22 02:24:49 2010. "Last I heard, construction was in the latter phase and it should be open within the year."Maybe your "love interests" Chris Christie wants commuters to WALK IT...lol..thanks to the "FAT MAN"... |
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| (926910) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 15:07:49 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 13:57:27 2010. Constitutionally prohibited? |
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| (926911) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 23 15:09:42 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 22 03:10:40 2010. "How much cheaper would it have been to have kept the CNJ main line open as it was, with the only capital spending back in the 60s on a PATH extension to CRRNJ Terminal . . . ? How about the Newark & New York, which could have been serving the Prudential Center nowadays . . . ?"At the time....no one in local government cared about saving or partnering with the railroads or even understood the value of infrasture and railroads to the local economy until it was too late. |
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| (926912) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 23 15:14:53 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 13:57:27 2010. "SI should seriously consider seceding from NY and joining NJ."So they can pay HIGHER TAXES??? eh? |
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| (926914) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by ebtmikado on Fri Apr 23 15:18:28 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 12:33:25 2010. The Newark Branch, Jersey City-South Kearny-Newark did not cross Newark Bay. It crossed the Hackensack River (bridge knocked out by ship being launched at South Kearny Shipyard during WWII, and Passaic River, which was taken out of service after Aldene.squeak |
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| (926915) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 15:20:45 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 23 15:06:08 2010. The fat man can't cut what's already been spent. |
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| (926916) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 15:22:10 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 23 14:38:14 2010. Most people would still want Penn Station. Amtrak's appeal is the ability to get from downtown to downtown with minimal delays. Taking a train to a boat is as bad as taking a plane to a cab. |
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| (926918) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 15:25:26 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 23 14:51:07 2010. The ironic thing is, the CNJ's original waterfront terminal was at Exchange Place, when they used to run over the New Jersey RR from Elizabeth.Indeed, had it stayed that way, Aldene may never have happened, since there was no real push to remove the bridges the New Jersey RR used across the Hack/Pack. |
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| (926920) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 15:28:59 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 14:00:50 2010. Forget economically feasible, it was at the time an economic impracticality. Those areas where those employment centers now exist were then railyards . |
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| (926924) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 15:31:26 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 23 15:09:42 2010. Sadly true. |
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| (926927) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 15:39:20 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by ebtmikado on Fri Apr 23 15:18:28 2010. Correction appreciated. I assumed from the mention of Bayonne that they used the bridge at the south end of Newark Bay.But there's still no bridge. |
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| (926929) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 15:48:31 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 15:39:20 2010. |
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| (926932) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 23 15:52:24 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 15:20:45 2010. He can go on a diet |
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| (926935) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 23 15:53:29 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 15:22:10 2010. "Taking a train to a boat is as bad as taking a plane to a cab."People living on SI do it all the time....so? |
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| (926939) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 15:57:44 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 23 15:53:29 2010. People living on SI do it all the time....so?And they bitch and moan about it all the time. |
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| (926993) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Apr 23 18:35:13 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 15:00:32 2010. 2.5% is only slightly steeper than the cross slope on a street, from crown to gutter.your pal, Fred |
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Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Apr 23 20:36:51 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 15:28:59 2010. And full of rats that remained there into the nineties. Of course, looking back, I should've invested in condos back then. |
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| (927058) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Apr 23 20:37:58 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 15:22:10 2010. PATH? And many people like boat rides than PATH. |
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| (927114) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 23 21:42:15 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 15:28:59 2010. The National Docks branch remained extant through the whole thing. Getting a train through rail yards is easier than through condos. |
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| (927115) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 23 21:43:01 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Apr 23 20:37:58 2010. Yes; ferries are still viable. |
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| (927141) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Apr 23 21:56:55 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 15:07:49 2010. Constitutionally prohibited?Strictly speaking, it's not prohibited, but it's going to require consent, and I don't see that consent being given. |
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| (927167) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Apr 23 22:33:42 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Apr 23 21:56:55 2010. It would be a hard sell. It all depends on how SI and NJ voters would go, plus a possible Federal question as no State has ever ceded even a part of its area to another State. |
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| (927173) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Tony Clifton on Fri Apr 23 22:38:45 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 23 15:00:32 2010. I just measured more like 2800 feet. |
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| (927176) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Fri Apr 23 22:41:51 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Fred G on Fri Apr 23 18:35:13 2010. The Steinway tubes are even steeper. The Lincoln Tunnel by comparsion is at a maximum 3.8% |
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| (927177) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 22:42:41 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Apr 23 15:14:53 2010. Property, perhaps. Everything else? Lower. |
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| (927181) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 23 22:43:55 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by R42 4787 on Fri Apr 23 22:41:51 2010. You're off the right of way, with the new extension. Nobody's giving up their homes for a tunnel that isn't going to be built anyhow. |
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| (927197) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Apr 23 23:05:12 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by R42 4787 on Fri Apr 23 22:41:51 2010. Yes, I was pointing out that 2.5% isn't really steep. 0.25 feet (3 inches) rise over a 10 foot run.your pal, Fred |
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| (927207) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Apr 23 23:57:19 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Tony Clifton on Fri Apr 23 22:38:45 2010. That's a significant difference. |
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| (927229) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 24 02:46:47 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 22 03:10:40 2010. Some pix taken in November of last year (first pic) and back in January. Dunno how complete it is now. (source)   |
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| (927478) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Apr 24 20:48:34 2010, in response to HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by R42 4787 on Thu Apr 22 01:43:44 2010. I decided to swing by Bayonne today (on my way back from Long Island), and I stopped at the 7-Eleven across from the future 8th Street Station. Here is what it looked like earlier today:  And here are the convenient eateries located right there:   |
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| (927520) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat Apr 24 22:27:58 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010), posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Apr 24 20:48:34 2010. Nice shots, Fish!! :-) |
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| (927522) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Apr 24 22:28:53 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010), posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat Apr 24 22:27:58 2010. Thanks, Paul! |
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| (927524) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat Apr 24 22:30:38 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010), posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Apr 24 22:28:53 2010. You're quite welcome!! :-)Today, I met up with NETO, Railman and "Rapid Back In Rapid Transit" (if I remember his Subchat name correctly!!), and shot about a little!! I shall post those tomorrow!! :-) |
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| (927530) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 24 22:44:21 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010), posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Apr 24 20:48:34 2010. Nice pics, but the bridge is ugly. |
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| (927533) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Apr 24 22:52:06 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010), posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat Apr 24 22:30:38 2010. Ok, looking forward to it! |
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| (927534) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Apr 24 22:52:28 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010), posted by Easy on Sat Apr 24 22:44:21 2010. Yeah, it's nothing special. |
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| (927535) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 24 22:59:33 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010), posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Apr 24 22:52:28 2010. This is how we do it in LA. Not my pic nor rendering. 
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| (927536) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 24 23:00:57 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010), posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Apr 24 20:48:34 2010. So much for LRT being cheaper than commuter rail.Poor imitation of the original. How much is NJDOT spending to rebuild it? (The caption on this photo says it all.)  |
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| (927551) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Apr 24 23:52:32 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010), posted by Easy on Sat Apr 24 22:59:33 2010. This is how we do it in LA.I'd rather have the utilitarian highway look compared to your half-assed concrete viaduct... |
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| (927558) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 25 00:32:41 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 24 23:00:57 2010. First, the caption is bogus. Conrail Day was 1 April l976.Second, in that era bankrupt meant No Money spent w/o court apptoval, and the likelihood a Judge would have okayed money for a route considered redundant was close to zero. |
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| (927559) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 25 00:44:54 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street Extension PHOTOS From Today (April 24, 2010), posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 25 00:32:41 2010. Considered, or declared? There was no rail service to Bayonne until HBLR, and still none from the west. How would it be redundant? |
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| (927560) | |
Re: HBLR 8 Street extension |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 25 00:51:20 2010, in response to Re: HBLR 8 Street extension, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 23 14:13:35 2010. I think the Keystone is meant to primarily serve PA residents to PhillyIf so, then why run it to Manhattan? It ought to run into Suburban Station and end there. Allentown may best be served by extending the ex-CNJ from Phillipsburg or the ex-Reading from Philly by NJT or SEPTA The current state of the former CNJ between Easton and Bethlehem keeps disimproving. The ROW's already got at least one building on it (a CREA halfway house in Freemansburg) and a new "grade crossing" was built to bypass a railroad bridge on Freemansburg Avenue. The old bridge from the Allentown Terminal Railroad into Allentown's downtown is gone, but the railroad could still operate into the former LVRR station. Service into the Lehigh Valley would probably be easier (and cheaper) done by running via the LVRR through Easton and Bethlehem; the Lehigh Line is diverted onto the CNJ via Phillipsburg, but back onto the LVRR in Alpha. Re-extending the RVL via the CNJ through Glen Gardner, Hampton and Bloomsbury to connect with the Lehigh Line might be feasible, but the route via the former LVRR from Hunter into the Lehigh Valley is already intact and continuous. |
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