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| Re: Questions from the eager & curious (860269) | |
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| (860935) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 22:47:39 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Jeff H. on Wed Nov 18 22:31:20 2009. Nope terrepinhead said, "AFAIK field shunting has been disabled on all trains that once had it."He's wrong on 2 counts. First, as you pointed out, field shunting is needed for other purposes in the normal sequence. And second, not all cars have had their field shunting removed. Hence, terrorpin is wrong. Albiet a technicallity but it's just the sort of thing he loves to do to others. Nope, terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! terrorpin is wrong! |
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| (860939) | |
Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 22:49:46 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Westcode44 on Wed Nov 18 22:46:15 2009. Who's who? |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 22:50:18 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Westcode44 on Wed Nov 18 22:46:15 2009. Hey, are you coming tomorrow morning? |
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| (860942) | |
Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 22:52:08 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Westcode44 on Wed Nov 18 22:46:15 2009. Heh. Nah, that be Dougie ... but seriously, I'm sure you remember how arnines would only stay put for a couple of hours before they'd get bored and wander off. :) |
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| (860944) | |
Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 22:53:21 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 22:52:08 2009. Same thing can be done with any NYAB brake valve if you know the "Trick". |
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| (860946) | |
Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Westcode44 on Wed Nov 18 22:54:49 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 22:52:08 2009. I "yell" at BMTguy all the time about this..wondering off and eating a 1 foot hero while the nine (1689) is left unattended charged in release no chocks..Ima send him to see Train Dude for "reinstruction"WE-44 |
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| (860947) | |
Re: SMEE (Attention Westcode 44) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 22:55:05 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 22:50:18 2009. Turn your Nextel on. |
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| (860950) | |
Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 22:56:12 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Westcode44 on Wed Nov 18 22:54:49 2009. My pleasure......we can make him sit in the front of the classroom with the probies. |
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| (860959) | |
Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 23:00:39 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 22:53:21 2009. Nah ... I've already played "no brakes, no problem." :( |
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| (860961) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Nov 18 23:02:06 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 18 17:07:52 2009. No. There are Express Lines and Local Lines.A Route, such as the (F) runs express on the Queens Line and as a local on the Culver Line. We may argue about what it is on the Sixth Avenue Line, but my 1964 map CLEARLY shows 14th and 23rd as EXPRESS stops. ROAR |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 23:02:29 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 23:00:39 2009. Yup and this trick bit one of my RCIs on the bottom. |
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| (860964) | |
Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 23:02:51 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Westcode44 on Wed Nov 18 22:54:49 2009. Wellllll ... wood would lose if an arnine wanted to be an escapee anyway. Good thing I'm not an MMI there. I'd charge up 1227 and leave it in running release. THAT he'd notice. :)but still ... he's a good guy even if he's a gavone. Heh. |
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| (860966) | |
Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 23:03:55 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 23:02:29 2009. Not a happy trick, not so bad if you still have some rail left before it dawns I s'pose ... |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 23:18:40 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 23:03:55 2009. or until you roll backwards and run through a switch. |
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| (860989) | |
Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 23:31:23 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 23:18:40 2009. That'll do it too, though the unintended add is a little less destructive. :(I'm guessing your "event" was an unset handbrake? Or THREE to make it proper? |
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| (860993) | |
Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 23:36:23 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 23:31:23 2009. just one |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 23:37:11 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 23:36:23 2009. Yipe ... and no wedgies undercar either, I s'pose. :( |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 23:39:57 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mr. MTA on Wed Nov 18 11:48:56 2009. >There is no dotted line on the 5 to Flatbush Avenue because it was recently extended there for full time service instead of just rush hour.Got it...wasn't aware of this change, thanks. |
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| (861000) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 23:43:57 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Nov 18 10:53:30 2009. >6: To simplify matters, they try as much as possible to keep the "express in this borough and local in that one" distinction, so the B and D are treated as express trains at Grand Street because they are express trains. White means "express trains stop," less than "all trains stop," else all stations on the L would use white dots.Would make sense if the map didn't define white dots as "All Trains Stop (express & local service)". Just nitpicking I suppose! |
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| (861001) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 23:51:05 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 01:57:22 2009. Thanks for the explanations.>...Once the doors are closed and locked, they then remove the key which passes "doors closed indication" to the motorperson up front who can then move the train. So while the C/R's key is in, does the M/M have any control of the train at all? And likewise, does the M/M have to somehow pass control to the C/R before they can key-in & operate the doors? Sounds like the key itself is the interlock. |
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| (861010) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 23:57:54 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 23:51:05 2009. You're welcome! Yes, the key when inserted, takes away indication from the motorperson (light on the air gauge goes out), and when it's removed after the doors really are closed and locked, indication comes back in (lamp goes back on again) ... the new tech trains and many modified older ones have a pair of "door enabler" buttons in the motorperson's position which must be pressed to enable the opening and closing of doors on the proper side of the train ... this is MTA's solution to some errant conductors in the past who opened up the doors on the wrong side.The "control" of indication is all in the interlock switches in each door along with the key withdrawal ... nothing moves until the light comes back on. Propulsion is also interlocked into the indication circuit so that you cannot move the train without indication unless you hit a bypass switch in the cab and explain WHY you did so to your trainmaster. |
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| (861012) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Mike W. on Thu Nov 19 00:01:49 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Nov 18 12:12:27 2009. > ...I believe Toronto is all-OPTO, as many other subways around the world. A few are even ZPTO.TO is still two-person crew on the subway ("guard" instead of "conductor"), but they are both qualified to do both jobs. The short Scarborough RT is OPTO, but in that case they act as (arguably unnecessary) guard - the trains are automated. > The following stations are named for the street along which the line runs... Interesting. Clearly it happens at more than a few spots. I thought the Broad & Whitehall examples were most bizarre for their deviance from other nearby similarly-named stations. >...I'm quite sure that northbound E trains announce themselves as a "X-bound E express train" Perhaps...I was sure that the only reason I noticed it was its difference from the 'F', but who knows. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Nov 19 00:09:24 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Jeff H. on Wed Nov 18 22:31:20 2009. Why would you hate to say it? When am I not right?Those uses of field shunting have nothing to do with improving acceleration rates and/or raising top speed, so they aren't relevant to this discussion about why NYC subway cars are slow. But thanks for that info anyhow. |
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| (861023) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Mike W. on Thu Nov 19 00:20:17 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by mshull on Wed Nov 18 14:38:32 2009. > For example 2s and 3s are local everywhere except the Broadway-7th Ave trunk. Therefore, Park Place, Fulton St, Wall St and Clark St are all marked local only. Those stops are considered off the trunk line proper (Chambers to 96th).And interestingly, while all four are marked local-only at http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/submap.htm, my printed 2004 centennial map shows them as 'all trains' white dots. Guess there's some disagreement in the map-making department! Thanks for the rundown. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Nov 19 00:21:38 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Thu Nov 19 00:20:17 2009. 2004 map? Dude, why didn't you pick up a new map? You should always be using the newest map. Always. They are free. At every subway booth. You just ask for one. |
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| (861035) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Mike W. on Thu Nov 19 02:07:07 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Nov 19 00:21:38 2009. Haven't felt the need to carry a map with me on the system for some years now. Actually, the only reason I bothered getting the official map back in '04 was because I was in town by chance during the centennial. But I was killing time this past week waiting for a late-night F at Rock Center by looking at the station map, and that's when I started noting the white-dot/black-dot, diamond, dotted-line & station name oddities. Figured this gang could explain them, and I was right! |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Nov 19 02:19:32 2009, in response to Re: $100 fine for holding doors, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jun 17 15:41:18 2005. The map is online. The PDF version is identical to the print version. That's what I use. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Nov 19 02:23:28 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Nov 19 00:21:38 2009. The map is online. The PDF version is identical to the print version. That's what I use. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by David on Thu Nov 19 05:35:25 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Train Dude on Wed Nov 18 22:47:39 2009. Which cars still have field shunting enabled? (The New Technology Trains don't have -- or need -- field shunting, but, as I believe has been stated elsewhere in this thread, their propulsion systems mimic older equipment with the field shunting disabled unless they're operating under CBTC.)David |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Nov 19 06:07:01 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Nov 19 02:23:28 2009. He said printed. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Deaks on Thu Nov 19 06:57:11 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 17:45:24 2009. Haha. You spend half your life arguing with people on the internet. Says more about you than you could ever imagine! However did you manage for that period you weren't with us? |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Nov 19 07:53:46 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Deaks on Thu Nov 19 06:57:11 2009. Too bad he isn't banned permanently, not just for a short time like back then. |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 19 08:07:16 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 22:52:08 2009. But if you blew in their ear, they'd follow you anywhere.:) |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 19 08:08:33 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 23:02:51 2009. If we're talking anout Dougie, I still remember the sadistic leer on his face as he piloted 1689 down the straightaway seven years ago... |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Nov 19 10:49:41 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 17:45:24 2009. Long distances are not necessary to achieve high speeds - only strong and lasting acceleration rates are.Well, it depends on what constitutes a long distance. Given the spacing on some local lines, I don't see high speeds being achievable, but higher acceleration should aid in speeding up service and cutting down on the run times on local runs. Speeds between Howard Beach to Broad Channel are possibly limited because of posted speed limits or timers (if any exist) The real question that one should be asking is why does NYCTA not trust its employees to maintain speeds of 55 to 60 mph on said run given the low headways and long distances between stations, and why NYCTA caps its acceleration rate at 2.5 mphs given that most other systems aim for far higher rates. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Nov 19 10:57:46 2009, in response to Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 00:49:34 2009. I don't think I've ever been on an urban/metro train that has travelled that fast.From personal experience, WMATA with ATO is just as fast with better acceleration rates than PATH, MARTA in Atlanta achieves 75 mph, and while BART isn't what I'd call a subway*, it's reaches acceptable speeds in the 65 to 70 mph range. Hell, the best part of BART is riding at full acceleration leaving the West Oakland station hurling into the Transbay tunnel. Hell, just across the river, HBLR pokes along its mainline at 45-55 mph between stations... But NYCTA is slow except for the say, the L and that's only due to CBTC... :-( *I'd never consider BART to be a subway given the headways and station spacing. It's really a S-Bahn system that's been isolated from the national railway network. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 19 11:32:40 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by R42 4787 on Wed Nov 18 22:40:42 2009. It is. |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 16:05:32 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 19 08:07:16 2009. Not necessarily. But if you got down on your back, flipped the drain valve and blew, they'd want to marry you. :) |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 16:07:03 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 19 08:08:33 2009. Heh. He knew whose baby it was, and just HAD to gesture with that cigar forgetting which stand was which. He sure showed *me* ... :) |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 19 16:55:52 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Nov 19 10:49:41 2009. There are 2 locations enroute to the Rockaways where there are grade time signals and these are approaching both the North and South Channel Bridges. When the Rockaway Line originally opened there were no speed restrictions at all but trains crossing the bridges at high speed caused damage tot the rail points that rise when the bridges are opened so the TA put in a speed restriction over the bridges and subsequently installed GT signals to enforce the restriction. Once the trains clear the bridges, there are no speed restrictions on the flats. |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 19 17:03:32 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Jeff H. on Wed Nov 18 21:08:18 2009. Also some of the brake valves on SME equipped cars were designated "MD" since they could also be used to control the doors. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 19 17:13:45 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Nov 18 23:02:06 2009. The readings on the R-46s and 160s show the F as a 6 Ave LOCAL. The #6 Line is technically a local line but since it has an express service in the Bronx, stations on the Pelham Line have to be designated as express or local to differentiate between the two services. The R44 and 46 readings for the A line also show what class of service the train is operating on depending on the portion of the line it will be traveling. That would mean that the reading would rotate through "8 Av Express" and "Fulton St Local" if there is no Fulton St express service operating at that time of day. If the train is express both on 8 Av and Fulton St then the signs would indicate that. I spent almost 32 years of progressively responsible operating experience with the NYCTA eventually retiring as a schedule manager so I do have more than a passing knowledge of the operations of the NYCTS. |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 19 19:33:30 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 16:07:03 2009. I think Dougie was thinking of reenacting the Malbone St. wreck.:) |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 19 19:34:24 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 16:05:32 2009. Say what you want, but those cars definitely had personality. |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 19:42:41 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 19 19:33:30 2009. Wrong car ... he would have only "Doug" a new tunnel. :) |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 19:46:15 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 19 19:34:24 2009. And if you had the handles, they'd talk to you the entire trip. :) |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 19 21:43:32 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 19:46:15 2009. Yep, their gear pitch speaks for itself.:) |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Westcode44 on Thu Nov 19 21:47:50 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 19:42:41 2009. LOL yea thats him alright--and his brother too Lord Vader.WE-44 |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 21:57:45 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 19 21:43:32 2009. Many other sounds you had to pay attention to as well ... they were quite chatty when running. :) |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 21:58:37 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by Westcode44 on Thu Nov 19 21:47:50 2009. Heh. Nothing amuses more than a steady hand on the deadman. Chow! :) |
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