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| (670904) | |
MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Thu Aug 21 21:32:51 2008 Seen here at Wonderland Station Sunday 8/17/08.Njoy jrc 
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| (670913) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Aug 21 21:53:38 2008, in response to MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by r17-6599 on Thu Aug 21 21:32:51 2008. Those strongly resemble the PATH cars |
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| (670915) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 21 21:57:34 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Aug 21 21:53:38 2008. Not as much as the cars they are replacing, IMO.
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (670917) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Thu Aug 21 22:00:54 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 21 21:57:34 2008. I believe the 72 Hawkers were based on the 0600 Blue Line stock.wayne |
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| (670919) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Chicagopcclcars on Thu Aug 21 22:02:54 2008, in response to MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by r17-6599 on Thu Aug 21 21:32:51 2008. Can I get an explanation of the third rail shoes and the pantographs.David |
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| (670922) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Thu Aug 21 22:11:41 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Aug 21 21:53:38 2008. You mean PA5s. |
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| (670923) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Thu Aug 21 22:12:43 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Thu Aug 21 22:00:54 2008. In reverse, the 1978-79 Blue Line 0600s and 1980-81 Orange Line 01200s were based on the PA3s. |
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| (670929) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Aug 21 22:18:45 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by Chicagopcclcars on Thu Aug 21 22:02:54 2008. Can I get an explanation of the third rail shoes and the pantographs.Think hard... :) MBTA's Blue line uses third rail from Bowdoin to Airport where the switch over to catenary occurs for the rest of the route to Wonderland. I'm still at a loss to explain why catenary was used despite the fact that both catenary and third rail are at 600VDC. BTW, the Blue Line was originally a Green Line-esque counterpart for East Boston, but unlike the Green Line, it was converted to heavy rail in the 1920s. Given the advances from streetcars to de facto Stadtbahn units, it probably would have been better to keep the Blue Line as an LRV-based system with a street running branch towards Chelsea. |
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| (670938) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Aug 21 22:30:31 2008, in response to MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by r17-6599 on Thu Aug 21 21:32:51 2008. Nice. |
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| (670944) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Aug 21 22:43:54 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Aug 21 22:18:45 2008. lol!!! |
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| (670948) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 21 22:56:13 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by R42 4787 on Thu Aug 21 22:12:43 2008. The PATH PA-1 cars are as old as MTA/NYCT R32's[1965]..So one can say that the MBTA's rolling stock on the Orange/Blue lines are semi copies of the Path cars. |
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| (670957) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by metropod on Thu Aug 21 23:12:45 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by Chicagopcclcars on Thu Aug 21 22:02:54 2008. something about it being close to the shore, the ice would build up on the third rail when it snowed, something like that. |
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| (670963) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Thu Aug 21 23:25:47 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by R42 4787 on Thu Aug 21 22:12:43 2008. Thank you- I knew that the two were somehow related.-w- |
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| (670967) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Aug 21 23:32:27 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by metropod on Thu Aug 21 23:12:45 2008. Plus it was built in ROW of the former Boston Revere Beach & Lynn Railroad, a 3-Foot gauge line that electrified in the 1920's with 600 Volts DC overhead trolley using trolley poles. It was abandoned in 1940.Several of the open platform cars were equipped with roller bearings, one, a trailer survives on the East Broad Top Railroad. It still has the 600 Volt jumper sockets on the platform roof to this day. The line in several places is less than a half mile from the Atlantic Ocean. |
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| (671037) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 22 03:14:40 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Aug 21 22:18:45 2008. Shoulda kept the overhead for underground. |
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| (671085) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Aug 22 09:44:32 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Aug 21 22:18:45 2008. "MBTA's Blue line uses third rail from Bowdoin to Airport where the switch over to catenary occurs for the rest of the route to Wonderland. I'm still at a loss to explain why catenary was used despite the fact that both catenary and third rail are at 600VDC."An explanation I heard (I do not remember the source) was that MBTA was concerned about salt water fouling the third rail, or about flooding potential. Since the A train crossing the water to the Rockaways also has that problem, I am skeptical of it, but that's what I heard. |
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| (671108) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Aug 22 11:10:14 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Aug 21 22:18:45 2008. "BTW, the Blue Line was originally a Green Line-esque counterpart for East Boston, but unlike the Green Line, it was converted to heavy rail in the 1920s. Given the advances from streetcars to de facto Stadtbahn units, it probably would have been better to keep the Blue Line as an LRV-based system with a street running branch towards Chelsea."I also think it would have been better to leave the East Boston Tunnel as a trolley subway. It would have allowed for the Blue Line to run more extensively through East Boston, Chelsea, Revere and possibly Everett. But I recall seeing a proposal for a Blue Line branch to Chelsea. I forget exactly where and when I saw it, but it was fairly recent (2003ish), so it would have been heavy rail. It would have branched off of the main line at Wood Island. |
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| (671245) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 22 16:59:08 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Aug 22 09:44:32 2008. Don't be. The Boston MTA operated service along the E Boston line before the NYCTA operated to the Rockaways. Also, the E Boston (Blue) Line is a sequestered line with no direct connection to the rest of the Boston transit system and with a dedicated car fleet. With the multiplicity of services that found their way to the Rockaways, the NYCT would have probably had to equip the entire IND car fleet with pantographs which not only would have been prohibitively expensive but also would have presented clearance problems. The E Boston Line having been originally designed for trolley cars had the clearance for cars with an overhead current collecting device such as a trolley pole or pantograph. The NYC transit system does not. |
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| (671246) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 22 17:02:22 2008, in response to MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by r17-6599 on Thu Aug 21 21:32:51 2008. The blue stripe on the stainless steel body is remeniscent of the original color scheme of the R-44s and 46s. It's too bad that the graffiti problem in NY forced the MTA to eliminate the blue stripe on all its rolling stock. |
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| (671729) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by stevie on Sat Aug 23 18:40:33 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 22 17:02:22 2008. The MBTA is holding 10 #4 cars till 2010 due to a lease agreement. They have taken a few #4 cars out of service for scrapping. |
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| (671731) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 18:51:46 2008, in response to MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by r17-6599 on Thu Aug 21 21:32:51 2008. The older ones look better, and I bet they were built better too. These new ones won't last as long, I bet. |
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| (671743) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sat Aug 23 19:27:43 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 18:51:46 2008. The 0600 cars aren't all that old, only 30 years. They are badly rusted. On the other hand these cars lasted more than 50 years. http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?18284 These cars lasted less than 30 years http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?18333 |
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| (671745) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Aug 23 19:36:23 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 18:51:46 2008. Go play with your bananas and stop offering opinions on subjects you know nothing about. |
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| (671746) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Aug 23 19:56:09 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by merrick1 on Sat Aug 23 19:27:43 2008. 30 years old is still quite a substantial period of time. Like many people who post here, you have no idea how much maintenance is required to keep cars like that running. All you see is whether or not the outside looks rusted. That's a very simplistic way of looking at it. |
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| (671750) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 20:04:08 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by merrick1 on Sat Aug 23 19:27:43 2008. Hmm...so why did those 1950's cars last for such a short period of time? Interesting how the 1920s cars lasted so long. True durability there.And railcars aren't always retired because it is "their time"...look at how PATH is planning on retiring the PA3s and PA4s... Sometimes corruption plays a role too... :( |
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| (671753) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 20:06:34 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by Dave on Sat Aug 23 19:36:23 2008. No, it IS a subject I know something about. It is not purely due to mechanical failure that these cars are retired, but rather, due to corruption, and manipulative politics as well. Ask anyone who works for the Toronto TTC. Cars are retired WAYYYY too early.Seems like MBTA is heading down the same path...scrapping cars after 30 years....Even if these MBTA NTTS can be rebuilt in 25 years, that doesn't mean they will be rebuilt. |
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| (671755) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by 156n3rd on Sat Aug 23 20:15:44 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 20:06:34 2008. Such bitterness! The new units are awesome. They look great. Look on the bright side. New equipment is always better than old. It's been improved. Forget the politics, and enjoy the new trains. woo woo |
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| (671756) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sat Aug 23 20:16:07 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Aug 23 19:56:09 2008. The 0600s have lasted 30 years without a major overhaul which is pretty good. They were a very conservative design electrically and mechanically. The design may have been a reaction to the problems the T had with the Boeing LRVs. Now that AC propulsion and electronic controls are proven technology, new cars make more sense than rebuilding things like cam controllers.There was an ad by GE in Railway Age many years ago. It said something like "When you rebuild a 40 year old locomotive you get a brand new 40 year old locomotive." |
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| (671759) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Aug 23 20:21:03 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by merrick1 on Sat Aug 23 20:16:07 2008. "The 0600s have lasted 30 years without a major overhaul which is pretty good."Source? What kind of work was done on them or not done on them? "They were a very conservative design electrically and mechanically." OK, fine, I'll agree with that. "The design may have been a reaction to the problems the T had with the Boeing LRVs." Different operating conditions and different services; you're comparing an apple to an orange. However, I won't say there's no overlap. "Now that AC propulsion and electronic controls are proven technology, new cars make more sense than rebuilding things like cam controllers." It's not just that. It's also the ergonomics of the car, ADA compliance, a whole host of things. Think PEOPLE, not simply CARS, and you'll start to get the point. |
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| (671797) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Aug 23 21:40:03 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 20:06:34 2008. I repeat, go back to playing with your bananas and stop posting about subjects you know nothing about. What you DON'T know would fill the Library of Congress. |
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| (671897) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 24 01:40:49 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by 156n3rd on Sat Aug 23 20:15:44 2008. New equipment is always better than oldThat's not necessarily true. The Comet Vs were absolutely not better than their predecessors. |
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Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by metropod on Sun Aug 24 02:23:36 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 20:04:08 2008. True durability therenope, sheer luck in thier enviroment. these cars ran for 30 years before the outdoor section of the line opened in 1952 between Marvick and Suffolk downs. the line was extened to Wonderland two years later. this resulted in the cars getting a LOT of exposer to sea air, which is very corrosive. then add to that the stop for the airport. This leads to the conclusion that the envrioment of the blue line is to blame, not the design of the car and not your beloved "banana" rant. |
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| (671921) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 24 08:59:19 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by 156n3rd on Sat Aug 23 20:15:44 2008. That's not true at all. |
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| (671952) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Aug 24 10:09:01 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by metropod on Sun Aug 24 02:23:36 2008. False. The way the car is built has a lot to do with it. Had those cars been stainless steel, or aluminum, they would last much longer....Look at how long the R32s lasted, and they frequently go to the rockaways, and look at how long the R10s, and the Arnines lasted.Also, they probably didn't properly grease the underbodies. |
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| (671960) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by metropod on Sun Aug 24 10:34:33 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Aug 24 10:09:01 2008. The A cars aren't always in the rockaways, and their yard isn't there. the blue line cars are out in the sea air all the time. it's not the same. |
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| (671961) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Aug 24 10:53:15 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by metropod on Sun Aug 24 10:34:33 2008. I see, however, if they were properly painted, and gresed, or if they were made of aluminum(painted) or stainless steel, then they would last longer. As it was said, they didn't even get a GOH...kind of like the R30s...and they weren't retired due to rust....And what about coney island yard? Isn't that close to the sea? Lots of old BMT stuff ran there...stuff that lasted 50+ years...Still not buying your reason for premature retirement... |
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| (671965) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Aug 24 11:01:06 2008, in response to MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by r17-6599 on Thu Aug 21 21:32:51 2008. Wonderful picture from Wonderland. It's about time they rolled out these cars; they've been notoriously late. |
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| (672051) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by metropod on Sun Aug 24 13:20:41 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Aug 24 10:53:15 2008. you just shot a hole in your argument. Look at what decaeds of sea air did to stillwell ave station. the diffrence when it comes to CIY again is the cars that were stored in CI didn't spend 85 to 90% of thier time outside is sea air, which is what the blue line cars do. |
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| (672055) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Aug 24 13:43:55 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by metropod on Sun Aug 24 13:20:41 2008. What? So all those cars stored there at night, and on weekends, since the B doesn't run...What are you saying? Those cars are exposed to sea air, and kept outside. Stillwell ave station isn't the only station close to the sea there...a lot of stations on the brighton leading up to it are very close as well...YOU have no arguement...Stillwell was the only station renovated. |
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| (672060) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by metropod on Sun Aug 24 14:00:50 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Aug 24 13:43:55 2008. wrong. West 8 has been renovated, the brigton line El is concreate past ocean parkway and that was also rebuilt. Stillwell got all the attention becuase it was completely replaced from the ground up.I've been digging through google maps and I've found that the Blue line's yard is built right on top of a salt marsh called Belle Island Inlet, while CIY is about 1/3 of a mile inland. also, The cars don't spend all dam day runing around in that air. N trains get laid up on the center track of Astoria, B trains can lay up in the bronx if need be, and for that matter, the cars used on the B one day might have been on the N the day after and could had been sitting in concourse lay up the night night before. the point is that Blue line cars spend much much more of thier time exposed to salt air than coney Island based cars. |
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| (672062) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Aug 24 14:07:56 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by metropod on Sun Aug 24 14:00:50 2008. Brighton El is not concrete past ocean parkway.B trains usually lay up in CIY on weekends...and they usually don't swap with the N... I personally have not seen the maps...so I cannot tell you about that...if they blue line yard is built right above a salt water marsh, then that was stupidity, first for building the yard there, and second, for not ordering stainless steel cars, and properly maintaining them. Coney island is a bit in land, but they still get the air, don't they? Was the blue line's yard always there, or was it built there in the 50s? Those older cars still lasted 50 years...20 of which they endured the salt water parts... |
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Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 24 14:12:55 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Aug 24 14:07:56 2008. Youi forgot about all the banana peels in the T/O's cab. |
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Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by stevie on Sun Aug 24 14:52:17 2008, in response to MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by r17-6599 on Thu Aug 21 21:32:51 2008. They did send 2 cars (0622/23) to see if rebuilding the cars to go on the Orange Line would be feasable but was too expensive. Also besides the salt air they also have to deal with jet fuel form planes taking off and landing at Logan Airport which isnt helping the bodies. |
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| (672090) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Aug 24 14:57:27 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by stevie on Sun Aug 24 14:52:17 2008. What effect does jet fuel have? Is it also corrosive? Or does it just take the paint off? |
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Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Dand124 on Sun Aug 24 19:42:54 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Aug 22 09:44:32 2008. An explanation I heard (I do not remember the source) was that MBTA was concerned about salt water fouling the third rail, or about flooding potential. Since the A train crossing the water to the Rockaways also has that problem, I am skeptical of it, but that's what I heard.My understanding is that there were problems with freezing along the Atlantic ave. El so the concerns were rational. |
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| (672249) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Dand124 on Sun Aug 24 19:47:05 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 18:51:46 2008. The new ones should last longer since they are made of stainless steel rather than carbon steel. |
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| (672250) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by Dand124 on Sun Aug 24 19:52:15 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Aug 23 19:56:09 2008. The yard for the Blue Line is located in a salt marsh and the will likely shorten the life span for all blue line cars. |
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Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Aug 24 21:13:46 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by metropod on Sun Aug 24 13:20:41 2008. pwn'd |
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Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Aug 24 21:16:33 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 24 14:12:55 2008. 
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| (672294) | |
Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars |
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Posted by metropod on Sun Aug 24 21:18:09 2008, in response to Re: MBTA Boston: Blue Line's new cars, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Aug 24 14:07:56 2008. there are still 68s on the N last time I checked. they might end up seeing B service.the blue lines yard was built when the extenstion to suffolk downs opened. the older cars had worked fine to that point and then began the long spiral. they were insufficent for the new line anywhy, which is why more cars were bought, the 1950s models that lasted only into thier 20s. you see a pattern here. 20 years out there and they shart showing wear. the 1950s cars lasted 20-30 years, an the current fleet is showing the same. the MBTA only expects to get 20-25 years of service out of this current model. |
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