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| Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... (548013) | |
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| (548560) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Russ on Sun Jan 6 11:57:16 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:54:02 2008. What he doesn't understand is that just because New York was in bad shape in 1976, that doesn't mean that New York was in bad shape in every year on the 1970s. |
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| (548561) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 11:57:32 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 6 11:45:52 2008. I think the fleet at Jamaica Yard got scrubbed with a lot of quite toxic cleaners and solvents, though, and thankfully we don't rely on groundwater on NYC. There was a controversy for many years, as I recall, about cleanup of one of the lakes at FMCP where the runoff had leaked. I don't know how that was resolved, if at all. |
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| (548562) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:57:50 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 6 11:52:50 2008. It was actually the difference between "bad and worse". There were no "good lines", just bad ones and worse ones.I used to envy Broadway (manhattan) riders. I would come off the L with my father (which was a pit) in the 70;s at Union Square, walk upstairs and it was a different world. I couldn't understand what those people that ised the Broadway Line did right and we did wrong to deserve the crappy stations and trains, and the Broadway line gleemed with beautiful new R44-46's (which also had graffiti, but not like everyone else). Even those cement block tiled stations looked fresh and clean. And the N also ran on Queens Blvd, so yes, QB was also more of a "showcase" too. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (548563) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:59:06 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Russ on Sun Jan 6 11:57:16 2008. Exactly. |
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| (548565) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jan 6 12:11:39 2008, in response to Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 14:27:48 2008. Well think again, there's potential of the MTA making money from the graffiti thats rampant in the system.What graffiti is rampant in the system? I see nothing, just a bit of willy-nilly tagging occasionally. And thanks to the anti-vandalism policies and technology (i.e. removable window covering on newer rolling stock), this doesn't really pose a problem. |
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| (548566) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jan 6 12:14:02 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by R Pansepcc on Sat Jan 5 16:40:06 2008. Too plain. Paint them red. |
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| (548568) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 6 12:16:51 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by R42 4787 on Sat Jan 5 19:55:00 2008. It was routine, when I was growing up, to park trains in places like the middle track of the Jerome Avenue elevated. This was the 1960s. I never saw any graffitti on any train back then. |
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| (548569) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 12:17:50 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:48:45 2008. I grew up nearest to the Flushing Line, which didn't see very many graffiti attacks, relatively - and if memory serves, absolutely - speaking. And on the LIRR's Pt Washington branch, which I also rode in the 1980s as a youngster, I can't ever recall seeing graffiti during its heyday.But I do recall going over Sunnyside Yard on the 7 train - always a favorite part of the ride for me - and then seeing the RR train headed to Astoria on the curve out of QBP, and some of them were absolutely covered in graffiti, from the trucks to the wheels to the windows to the doors to of the course the sides of the train. I think the RR used a wide variety of trains at the time. I can recall the R32s, R27/30s, R40s, and R42/40Ms distinctly. The R32s would get hit really hard by graffiti on the doors, and the R30s got hit hard everywhere except on top of the cars. I once rode an Astoria train in those days - I suppose it was an R30 trainset - and it was so dim inside because the windows had been basically painted over and the lights were not turned on. It was interesting kaleidoscopic effect, at least when you're 5, but I'm sure not much fun for most others. The ex-IRT cars seemed to get hit the worst from recollection. They had much brighter and garish colors as I remember it. |
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| (548570) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jan 6 12:19:29 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 6 12:16:51 2008. This was the 1960s. I never saw any graffitti on any train back then.Of course; that was before the graffiti epidemic started. |
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| (548571) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 12:21:01 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 11:56:16 2008. Wait, but Im saying using graffiti in the tunnels and you shot that down... now you're saying that graffiti doesn't count... pick a side and stick to it.Huh? I never moved. I say the graffiti in the dark tunnels should remain in the dark tunnels. Why showcase it? So YES, I did shoot down the idea of showcasing what is in the tunnels. Who CARES what is in the tunnels. It's dark. The graffiti that mattered was what was on the trains, on the stations, on every inch of whatever part of the subway. Even railings when they ran out of room on the tiles, columns, and surface area had it. A common trait of politicians in a debate use when they are losing is to accuse the other side of "flip flopping". I didn't flip flop, so there is no need to "pick a side and stick to it." Go to kingsbridge road today and look on the southbound platform on the tiles and look at the graffiti, go to 170 street and look there, go look on subway cars and you'll see there's still graffiti, look a week ago when the B trains sat on the express tracks outside of Brighton Beach, they were hit hard. Yes, and as I said, that constitues less than 1-5% of what was here from 1975-1994. Probably even less than 1%, but I will be conservative and say 1-5%. And if you think it's more than that, you have no idea what graffiti was like back then. That's the point. You talking total graffiti now you're saying visual graffiti... give me a break... Huh? Who cares what's in the tunnels. So what if something dimly goes by in a dark tunnel as you go by fast. Total graffiti was a station that you couldn't even tell what color it was painted 20 years earlier because there were so many layers of graffiti on it. Total graffiti was a train that you couldn't tell what it's real color was inside or out because it had 20 years of graffiti on it. Or if they painted it a month ago, it looked the same as the trains that were not painted in 20 years. Total graffiti is every column on the underground station covered with graffiti so not knowing what color the columns were. Total graffiti is an in use tiled station looking like Worth St (and in the beginning even the tiled stations did look like that often). I don't give a rat's ass about a tag in a dark tunnel where trains go by and rat's live. To say they should have removed the graffiti in the tunnels is a complete waste of money, and hardly to be expected. And to showcase it is even more ludicrous. Leave it in the tunnel in the dark where it belongs. The gunn program didn't eliminate the problem it just made it so that trains never ran with graffiti in service, but it never STOPPED the problem. LOL!! You really have no clue. The problem is 5% of what it was. Instead of every kid that can graba spray can running around with it marking up, now you have a few here and there. Believe me, it strangled the problem. And if you think otherwise, you have no idea what was going on in the 70's. Thats why trains still get bombed, why stations still are tagged, Hahahahaha! You see some tags on a station and you think that is "graffiti"? I iam sorry to tell you, but you really have no idea. ANd yes, they handle it better now, as that same station will be cleaned up. And yes it reamained. But just see what that same station would have looked like after two weeks of being repainted in 1980. It would look like it hadn't been painted in 20 years within 2 weeks. THAT was fact. why tunnels are full of it still. Who cares? Why in god's name spend millions removing it from the tunnels? I don't get what these tunnels keep coming up. It would be a complete waste of money. And to showcase it would be even more crazy. I don't get the tunnel thing. I think if someone was asked what you think is wrong in the subway, I don't think anyone would come up with "graffiti in the tunnels". I commend gunn on what he did cause it did make it more of a waste of time for graffiti vandals to do their work cause it cleaned off immediatly, but trains today still get bombed. You really don't have a clue do you? And you think that showcasing decades old graffiti in the tunnels would be more effective that "cleaning the trains off immediately"? That has been VERY effective, and there are probably yonly a fraction of a percent of the amount of graffiti vandals still "tagging" because of that initiative. I'm sure you've seen the graffiti videos out there where they walk into the yards, bomb a train and walk out... No, I was able to see it in person right in front of us. I don't need to see the videos to try and grasp what that awful era was like. I lived it everyday first hand. 60%.... Hilarious. This post only showed more your ignorance of that era. |
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| (548576) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 6 12:25:56 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 12:21:01 2008. Graffiti artists (if that is what they are) should be run over by a subway train.ROARING |
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| (548577) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 12:27:23 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jan 6 12:11:39 2008. He's talking about graffiti in the tunnels for some strange reason. That and graffiti that is applied and then propmptly removed from the train before it goes into service (or when discovered). There is no "rampant" graffiti in the system. |
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| (548579) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 6 12:29:18 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 12:21:01 2008. The situation today is much, much better than it was in the late 1970s and early 1980s, no doubt.I'm concerned not realy about the tunnel tagging itself, butabout the access of trespassers into the tunnel. It costs lives on occasion (train crews are traumatized when they run over somebody) and there is always the risk that the trespassers will play with equipment, vandalize signals etc. So I would be in favor of zero-tolerance for trespassing down there if it could be accomplished. Of course there is also a colony of homeless people who use some of the tunnels, so there would have to be a plan for that, too... |
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| (548581) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 12:31:51 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 11:56:16 2008. First as Mr. GP38 says, let's not worry so much about what the inside of the tunnels looks like with graffiti not removed.Go to kingsbridge road today and look on the southbound platform on the tiles and look at the graffiti, go to 170 street and look there, go look on subway cars and you'll see there's still graffiti, look a week ago when the B trains sat on the express tracks outside of Brighton Beach, they were hit hard. That's an enforcement problem. If you think 1 to 5% you're still dreaming my friend. If you count only graffiti - not scratchiti - I wouldn't be surprised if the aggregate area of graffiti in stations and on rolling stock isn't less than 1% of the maximum. The gunn program didn't eliminate the problem it just made it so that trains never ran with graffiti in service, but it never STOPPED the problem. You're confused. Just like zero crime is not a feasible goal, don't dream about stopping graffiti unless you want put all resources at society's disposal and then some into eliminating graffiti; the upshot of that is that there wouldn't be anymore money to run trains, so problem solved. |
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| (548583) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 12:37:18 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 12:17:50 2008. And on the LIRR's Pt Washington branch, which I also rode in the 1980s as a youngster, I can't ever recall seeing graffiti during its heyday.The commuter railroads didn't really get hit like the subway did. The trains were always pretty graffiti free. Stations outside the city were almost always graffiti free, and in the city, sometimes had graffiti, but not like the subway did. I once rode an Astoria train in those days - I suppose it was an R30 trainset - and it was so dim inside because the windows had been basically painted over and the lights were not turned on. It was interesting kaleidoscopic effect, at least when you're 5, but I'm sure not much fun for most others. You have a great memory. In the early 80's, many trains had their windows covered. In fact, that was typical. And the lights often didn't work. On an elevated stretch, you couldn't see out, but at least in the day it gave some light through some caps in the windows. Underground, usually, you had to rely on looking out the doors to see what station you were at....and that's if you could spot a sign from the open doors that wasn't covered in spraypaint! Yes, the IRT was among the worst, but the lines using the non stainless cars were very bad too. The stainless cars were bad too, but the carbonn steel trains were worse. |
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| (548596) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 13:10:28 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 6 12:16:51 2008. That was one of the problems back then. The yards were much less secure, and the practice of leaving the trains parked on the center tracks just out in the open was almost like leaving a lamb for the slaughter. |
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| (548597) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 13:11:43 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jan 6 12:14:02 2008. Rich's photo is also from the beginning of the epidemic. That was a pretty clean train by comparison of what they looked like a few years later. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 13:14:07 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 6 12:29:18 2008. That is a problem, and that goes way beyond graffiti. It's too easy to get in the tunnels, but really, that would be a tough thing to stop. Just anyone can enter at just about any station. I don't think that is preventable aside from a guard at every station end (which would be next to impossible), or glass dooring the platforms. But then you run into the problem of the doors being in different places on different classes of cars. Not to mention a major, major expense to not only install, but to maintain. |
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| (548600) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 13:15:26 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by R Pansepcc on Sat Jan 5 16:40:06 2008. The white paint scheme reminds me of Manfred "Red" Baron Von Richtofen's idea to paint his triplane daringly red . |
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| (548601) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 13:16:40 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 12:31:51 2008. If you count only graffiti - not scratchiti - I wouldn't be surprised if the aggregate area of graffiti in stations and on rolling stock isn't less than 1% of the maximum.Actually, it's probably less than a half of percent of the maximum of what once was. As for scratchitti, that's a whole other problem and topic. But they are beginning to work on that. of course the new trains have the film on it, and I don't think they will really bother too much with the cars that will soon be scrapped in the coming years (with good reason, why waste the money). Once the older cars start to go, and they repair the ones they are keeping, that along with the new trains, that problem should be less in the coming years. |
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| (548603) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 13:20:23 2008, in response to Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 14:27:48 2008. Chris, by the way, this was a every interesting topic to bring up. I don't want you to think everyone is trying to pounce on you, this is all in debate of course, and has been an interesting conversation. |
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| (548618) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 6 13:56:07 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 13:14:07 2008. Indeed. I wonder if MTA will stick to its plan to install platform doors on the 7 extension. Given the cost overruns already happening, I could see them shelving that part of it. As far as I know, platform doors are not going to be used on the SAS. |
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| (548620) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 6 13:57:52 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Russ on Sun Jan 6 11:57:16 2008. Note: The municipal finances were screwed up. It doesn't mean that every business sector in the city was screwed up. |
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| (548621) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 6 13:59:07 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 21:06:54 2008. Call Gigantor the Robot. 8-) |
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| (548623) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Jan 6 14:03:57 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 6 13:59:07 2008. He's too big to fit in the tunnels. We need Tobor the 8th Man or Astroboy.your pal, Fred |
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| (548624) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 14:07:48 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 6 13:56:07 2008. I saw, last summer, the head of MTA Capital Construction say that they were still going with platform doors on SAS in an interview, but my guess like yours is that there won't be platform doors when all's said and done. |
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| (548630) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 14:29:32 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 6 13:57:52 2008. Exactly, that's another thing he fails to see. The CITY was in trouble and the government fincances were in shambles. That doesn't mean the private sector was in shambles and not growing. |
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| (548637) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by vfrt on Sun Jan 6 15:08:32 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by R Pansepcc on Sat Jan 5 16:19:54 2008. Grafitti was a product of the welfare-ghetto-crime culture which nearly destroyed NYC. In the 70s close to 1 million people were on welfare in NYC. They were living the high life on everyone else's tax dollars. The more welfare babies you had (out of wedlock of course) the more money you got from the taxpayers.Welfare families would burn themsleves out of their apartments to get a higher slot on the waiting list for public housing, at taxpayer expense. Then they ruined the housing projects. Grafitti started in the ghetto by people destroying their own surroundings. By defacing the subways they destroyed everybody else's surroundings. Grafitti ain't art. Did Picasso paint on the side of buildings? I don't think so. |
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| (548641) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Sun Jan 6 15:19:34 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 17:49:13 2008. When you have a habit you enjoy, you save. That's what I do. |
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| (548644) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by FLASH GORDON on Sun Jan 6 15:23:39 2008, in response to Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 14:27:48 2008. TIME TO PUT THE BRATS TO WORK CLEANING IT OFF.This is not art its pigs at play and the public has to pay for the clean up. FLASH GORDON |
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| (548656) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 16:31:59 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by vfrt on Sun Jan 6 15:08:32 2008. Don't forget the "Have you seen the price on artist tools" excuses. |
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| (548659) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Russ on Sun Jan 6 16:35:11 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by vfrt on Sun Jan 6 15:08:32 2008. Did Picasso paint on the side of buildings?Thee is nothing wrong with painting on the side of buildings as long as you have permission from the owner. |
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| (548661) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 16:42:58 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Russ on Sun Jan 6 16:35:11 2008. Of course. Most of them don't. We are not talking about with permission stuff. Most of it is not done with permission. The mona lisa painted on the side of a building without permission is vandalism, not art either. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 6 17:03:49 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 16:15:42 2008. FALSE |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 6 17:17:47 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 6 17:03:49 2008. IAWTP |
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| (548676) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Jan 6 17:20:17 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 09:37:54 2008. There were many neighborhoods that were in great distress in the 70s and 80s but the overall economy had very little to do with it. Other neighborhoods continued to thrive and even grow during those times. The conditions that led to the 70s were put in place long before that decade. They only visibly came to light by then. While the city's economy had its ups and downs during the 70s it was pretty good overall. The city's finances didn't withstand the mid 70s recession but that was due more to political ineptitude then anything else. |
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| (548677) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 6 17:21:29 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by SMAZ on Sun Jan 6 17:20:17 2008. There were many neighborhoods that were in great distress in the 70s and 80s but the overall economy had very little to do with itWhat was it then, corruption? |
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| (548679) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 6 17:24:31 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by vfrt on Sun Jan 6 15:08:32 2008. Living on welfare is never the high life. |
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| (548682) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 6 17:28:22 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Russ on Sun Jan 6 16:35:11 2008. He asked if Picasso did it, which was a comment on the taste of the artist insofar as choice of substrates. |
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| (548683) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Jan 6 17:31:14 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:54:02 2008. Good post. Many sectors of the economy were doing just fine in NYC during that period. The distress experienced by many areas were due to many other factors. The financial situation at City Hall, the state of the subways and the crime statistics were due mainly to political prostitution. In the 90s Orange County, CA went bankrupt evn though the county's economy was doing well. Similiarly Enron went bankrupt in 2001 while the rest of the energy sector was thriving. On the flip side New York went into recession in 2001-2002 but the quality of life didn't suffer thanks to strong political competence and past lessons learned. |
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| (548685) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jan 6 17:32:34 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 12:27:23 2008. Graffiti in the tunnels should be very, very low on the priority list. |
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| (548688) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 17:34:28 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jan 6 17:32:34 2008. Exactly. In fact, it should probably (as it is I assume) completely off the list. No need to remove it in the tunnels. It would have been a complete waste of valuable resourses. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Jan 6 17:36:46 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 6 17:21:29 2008. It was a mix of padt mistakes, corruption, racial discrimination, changing economy, an unwillingness to tackle crime head-on and the lack of public-private partnerships to address certain issues. The seeds for a comeback were actually set by the late 70s. We only saw the harvest much later. It was a slow process but it worked and we have learned a lot from it. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Jan 6 17:42:23 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by FarRock on Sat Jan 5 21:34:27 2008. Let's put it this way. I was a child during the 70s and I thought that trains and stations were SUPPOSED to look that way. It was shocking to see it cleaned up. The shock of a graffitti-free train is much better then the horror of a previosly clean but suddenly vandalized train. You didn't miss much. It sucked except I didn't know how much it sucked until they cleaned it up and only now can I really appreciate how disgusting it really was. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to . . . |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Jan 6 17:47:27 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 5 20:52:12 2008. . . . the fact that there was a "then" means that we ought to have learned from it.I think that we did. I shudder at this vandalized train nostalgia. As a kid I just thought that that's how it was and always was gonna be. It seemed normal. Now we know that it's not. This misbegotten nostalgia by people that never experienced such horror needs to nipped in the bud and those of us that remember must lead the way. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Jan 6 17:54:15 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 21:06:54 2008. There's a problem where's your solution?By doing what we did in the 80s. Zero tolerance. They only win if we let them (like in the 70s). The vandals lost the battle in the past and they will again if we (thru the MTA) stand vigilant. I like good art and great murals as much as the next guy but most of the graffitti on 70s trains was pure garbage and subways are an inappropriate venue to express this art even when it's good. People have thought of your idea before. It doesn't work. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 6 17:54:16 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 17:49:13 2008. Then they should steal them. Why would that be any different than defacing someone else's property? |
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Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Jan 6 17:57:38 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jan 5 21:46:12 2008. IAWTP |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 6 17:59:08 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 15:56:15 2008. Nearly all of the graffiti was pure garbage, it had NEGATIVE value: No one was willing to buy it and the TA had to pay to have it destroyed. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Jan 6 18:02:53 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 6 12:25:56 2008. But Brother, you must give them their Last Rites first! Let's do it right. ;-> |
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