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| WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush (525261) | |
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| (525406) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Nov 30 07:27:44 2007, in response to WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 29 22:57:35 2007. I’m puzzled. The weather conditions in the Washington DC area are clear and dry now. The weather conditions in the Washington DC area yesterday were clear and dry. It did not freeze last night.John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (525415) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Fri Nov 30 08:06:56 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Nov 30 07:27:44 2007. It took that long for WMATA upper management to notice and over-react to what had happened on Thanksgiving day.It's like you go to the doctor's office and he wails on your knee with that hammer but nothing happens. Then you go home and your leg starts jerking uncontrollably :-) |
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| (525493) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Fri Nov 30 11:40:18 2007, in response to WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 29 22:57:35 2007. I witnessed one overrun on Turkey day: a 4 car train slid through an entire platform (600 feet) and then a few hundred feet further with its brakes locked up. I'm sure the wheels weren't very round anymore (relate to the NTSB comment I make below).Some might say that if stopping distances are being tripled or quadrupled in bad weather, you shouldn't be running at all. Ron complained about the trains in ATO not making stops; there's no way an ATO system can make up for such poor braking. Problem is far more fundamental: the rail-wheel interface on wet leaves just sucks rocks. Contrast with the NTSB thing from a month ago, where the wheel-rail interface was too adhesive and the train derailed underneath the convention center as a wheel just drove up and over the rail of a switch laying reverse. |
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| (525495) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Fytton on Fri Nov 30 11:54:27 2007, in response to WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 29 22:57:35 2007. The wet-leaves problem exists on many systems in several countries at this time of year, and transit suthorities have to cope with it. Why is it suddenly so bad in Washington DC? |
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| (525496) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Nov 30 11:55:26 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Fytton on Fri Nov 30 11:54:27 2007. When you don't do proper maintenance, evety problem has a magnified effect. |
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| (525511) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Nov 30 13:15:41 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Nov 30 11:55:26 2007. This isn't a maintenance issue. The release on the WMATA website explains exactly what the problem is, but you are too high and mighty to bother taking the time to read what it actually says. |
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| (525512) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Nov 30 13:16:10 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Fri Nov 30 11:40:18 2007. Any idea what mode the train was operating in? |
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| (525743) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Nov 30 21:20:19 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Nov 30 13:15:41 2007. Why not install track brakes on the cars Chicago style? Unless someone out there a little more CTA savvy than I am has info to the contrary, I'm sure CTA doesnt have much of a leaf problem. I've been on a CTA train when the track brakes were applied and the train STOPS! |
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| (525841) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 00:57:40 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Nov 30 13:15:41 2007. "This isn't a maintenance issue."If you didn't confine yourself to railfanning you'd know it was. On a poorly maintained system every problem becomes more difficult to handle. It isn't an additive effect; it's multiplicative. The press release states the immediate problem, not why WMMATA is so slow to respond to it. |
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| (525844) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 1 01:02:00 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by randyo on Fri Nov 30 21:20:19 2007. I wonder if that approach could also reduce the emergency braking distance to a stop; if so, theoretically it could lead to capacity increases, I imagine too. |
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| (525846) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 01:06:26 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by randyo on Fri Nov 30 21:20:19 2007. That's an option,but would then require more maintenance on the tracks due to wear on the running rails. That's why on many systems they are considered emergency brakes. Of course during leaf season that option might be worthwhile. |
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| (525984) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 1 14:14:32 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 00:57:40 2007. Care to tell the rest of us idiots what one does to solve the "maintenance" issue that results from leaves on the tracks? We are all waiting in suspense... |
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| (526188) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Dec 1 20:20:29 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 00:57:40 2007. A one time abberration isn't an indication of a poorly maintained system. The WMATA has a stellar track record. |
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| (526194) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Dec 1 20:26:51 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Dec 1 20:20:29 2007. Is "track record" a pun? lol.But their record is not stellar. They seem to have a lot of maintenance problems for being such a new system. Adding in their abysmal safety record would lead one to believe that they have been poorly managed. |
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| (526197) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Dec 1 20:29:08 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Easy on Sat Dec 1 20:26:51 2007. I would take the WMATA on their worst day. Don't take such a gem for granted. |
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| (526198) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 20:30:23 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Dec 1 20:20:29 2007. "The WMATA has a stellar track record."Only to some foamers who are too busy counting subway car serial numbers to notice anything else. The ridership in Washington, the elected officials in DC, the political cartoonist at the Washington Post, all think maintenance stinks. And they are right. The system is far too new to be suffering the kind of horrendous breakdowns New York and Chicago saw on 75 year old elevated lines and tunnels. But if WMATA keeps doing what it's doing now, it will start to happen. I met with members of WMATA's maintenance management a few years ago as part of a consulting project I was involved in. They expressed the need, among other things for better information and communication systems to keep maintenance work and its documentation (eg trouble tickets) better organized, so the crews could get more work done within their shifts. NYCTA had a huge problem with that in the 1970s and installed new IT software to handle it. WMATA has been good about keeping vandalism to a minimum. The Metro Transit Police have generally done a good job suppressing crime (although Metrorail is not 100% crime-free; no place in the world is). |
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| (526199) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Dec 1 20:30:45 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Dec 1 20:20:29 2007. If it was a one time situation perhaps, but... as was the main point, it was NOT A one time occurrance. It was a NINE time occurrance, in one day! |
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| (526201) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 20:36:24 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Dec 1 20:29:08 2007. "Don't take such a gem for granted."That's excellent advice, but in fact that's what WMATA's leadership does, and that's why WMATA's performance sucks relative to its situation. If you buy a new car today, odds are it will run pretty well over the next few years even if you don't change the oil as often as you should, you don't change the transmission fluid, you don't rotate the tires or maintain proper inflation....because when the components are new they'll take the neglect and still run - to a point. After that, your car will start to break down and start acting like a shop queen. That's what WMATA is doing. |
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| (526203) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 1 20:39:08 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 20:36:24 2007. Are MDBF statistics for WMATA known? |
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| (526212) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Dec 1 20:54:43 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 20:36:24 2007. Never mind the Blue Line extension to Largo Town Center, the new station at New York Avenue, or the possible extension to Dulles. |
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| (526213) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Dec 1 20:56:23 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 1 20:39:08 2007. They were published a while back. IIRC the highest MDBF was a fraction of NYCTs lowest. |
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| (526218) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 1 21:10:19 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by R30A on Sat Dec 1 20:56:23 2007. Well, the figures I was able to uncover are for MDBD (possibly it's just the same statistic renamed - Mean Distance Between Delays):For FY 2005: 45,323 miles, which was just about 25% less than the target sought For the last three months of 2006: 84k, 79k, and 93k miles, respectively, all of which exceeded the target of 73k miles |
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| (526225) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 1 21:18:22 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 1 21:10:19 2007. Well, the figures I was able to uncover are for MDBD (possibly it's just the same statistic renamed - Mean Distance Between Delays):For FY 2005: 45,323 miles, which was just about 25% less than the target sought For the last three months of 2006: 84k, 79k, and 93k miles, respectively, all of which exceeded the target of 73k miles Ok this was incomplete. The FY 2005 was a fleet-wide stat. The last 3 months' figure was for the 2000/3000 series made by Breda 1983-1988, and rehabbed by Alstom. Other figures for that same 3 month period, respectively: For the 5000 series made by CAF 2001-2004: 63k, 79k, and 65K, mostly below the target of 72k. |
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| (526241) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 21:37:38 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 1 21:10:19 2007. Compared to NYCTA's B Division fleet age, WMATA's fleet is new. Those numbers SUCK.If I recall correctly, NYCTA's repair shops did better than that even with the 40 year old Redbirds, when they were running. |
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| (526246) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 21:42:41 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Dec 1 20:54:43 2007. What does that have to do with anything? The extensions/additions were very nicely done projects, but that doesn't excuse WMATA from fixing broken lights or escalators on the rest of the system.Analogy: You buy a 2-bedroom house with a bsthroom. You then use your money to build an addition: A third bedroom and an additional bathroom. Meanwhile, your first bathroom springs a leak, the toilet overflows and the tiles are covered with mold because you didn't have the money to fix it. (Oh, and the roof leaks) I've bought houses from people who did that. I consider them idiots and I forced them to discount the price of the house (lest Iwalk away and their realtor has to disclose 10 pages of deficiencies to the next potential buyer). |
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| (526283) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 1 22:14:04 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 20:30:23 2007. The ridership in Washington, the elected officials in DC, the political cartoonist at the Washington Post, all think maintenance stinks. And they are right.Riders have complained, yet the system breaks ridership records and is gaining new riders. Please find me a quote where an elected official in the DC area has said that maintenance is inadequate. If you can find such a quote, then pray tell, why does Metro not have a dedicated funding source? Tom Toles is paid by the Washington Post to give opinions. None of his cartoons can be considered as fact or hard "reporting" on the state of Metro. Find some credible evidence before spewing out your BS. |
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| (526297) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 1 22:37:00 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 1 22:14:04 2007. I say you stop responding to his B.S. And everyone else should as well. Just my opinion. |
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| (526325) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 1 23:00:16 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Nov 30 07:27:44 2007. Obviously you do not know what happens to trains when leaves fall on the tracks and the wheels crush them. And that goes for EVERY rail operation! |
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| (526331) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 1 23:09:45 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Fytton on Fri Nov 30 11:54:27 2007. Every year many trees grow a little longer, higher, and bushier. If the transit agencies don't cut them back, every fall more leaf related operational issues will develop. The trees were cut back on the Franklin Shuttle between Prospect Park and Botanic Garden when the line was rebuilt, today it's like going thru a forest. The trees along the Amtrak line thru NJ are cut back well away from the tracks both for falling leaf purposes and trees falling on top of the wires during windy conditions. While in Philly on a recent Sunday a few weeks ago, it was nice to see the Asplundah Company trimming trees along the 100 Norristown line, single track operation was in effect. |
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| (526335) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 1 23:12:08 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 1 14:14:32 2007. The transit property has to take steps to trim the trees once in a while. Cut the trees branches from the tracks. |
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| (526338) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Dec 1 23:14:16 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 1 23:09:45 2007. We don't seem to have that problem in LA. ;) |
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| (526340) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 1 23:15:39 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Easy on Sat Dec 1 20:26:51 2007. They are not new anymore. They are 25 years old aren't they? Heavy trains pounding the roadbed for 25 years. They likely need more substantial improvements than simply changing out rails once in a while. |
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| (526343) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Dec 1 23:17:39 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 1 23:15:39 2007. What I meant was that we don't have very many leaves. |
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| (526345) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 1 23:18:57 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 20:36:24 2007. If they don't get the funding for improvements, what are they supposed to do? The leaves falling off the trees onto the roadbed are not $100 bills. Suits in the executive suite have to manage their system with the money they are budgeted. |
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| (526354) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 1 23:28:10 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 1 22:14:04 2007. Obviously it is the job of Tom Toles to badmouth the Washington Metro so newspapers can be sold. It is the job of Pete Donahue and Jeremy Olsham of the Daily News and Post respectively to badmouth NYCT so those rags can be sold too. All they know how to do is complain about the things that are not done and never give credit to the things that are done. WMATA, NYCT and the other systems, considering the throngs of people served, have some pretty good batting averages. |
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| (526366) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 1 23:50:48 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Easy on Sat Dec 1 23:14:16 2007. You may have different trees because your climate is warmer and your trees may not shed bare like ours do. I never heard about real cold and snow in LA. |
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| (526803) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Dec 2 18:26:09 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 1 23:12:08 2007. The transit property has to take steps to trim the trees once in a while. Cut the trees branches from the tracks.In the vast majority of situation that is not possible because the source of the leaves are coming from trees that are not on the transit agencies property. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (526829) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Dec 2 19:01:36 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Dec 2 18:26:09 2007. However, since many WMATA ROWs run alongside CSX tracks, you would think CSX would have a similar interest in cutting back the trees... |
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| (527137) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 3 01:23:18 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 1 01:02:00 2007. It might. The thing is that the only time the track brakes apply is if the M/M places the cineston controller in brake 4 (emergency) position or depresses the track brake button next to the controller. If the train is tripped or the daeadman's button is released, only full dynamic and friction brakes apply but not the track brake. |
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| (533980) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Dec 15 14:21:55 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 1 21:37:38 2007. Also important to remember--you cant really consider NYCTs fleet as being that old-- as most parts on the older cars are relatively new(replaced in GOH, and much has been replaced again since in the SMS program). Mind you, WMATA has done extensive overhauls also, and they were all more recent then NYCTs GOHs... |
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| (533982) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 14:25:48 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by R30A on Sat Dec 15 14:21:55 2007. Your points are valid - and they make the picture even worse for WMATA. If WMATA does an overhaul, and the cars' performance still sucks, then something fundamental is going wrong... |
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| (533995) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Dec 15 15:51:21 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 14:25:48 2007. The question as I see it(and I really don't know what is the situation) is, Are the rebuilds awful jobs?... Or is WMATA's maintenance awful?I suspect it is probably atributable to both, but Alstom may be at more fault then WMATA. \ IIRC the Rohr 1000s, which are the oldest in age, (and time since overhaul) are the most reliable, with relatively high MDBF(although still below anything present in NYCT) |
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| (534002) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 16:05:45 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by R30A on Sat Dec 15 15:51:21 2007. Ithink you're on the right track.Ironic that Rohr is long gone from the railcar business... |
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| (534004) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 16:09:43 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by R30A on Sat Dec 15 15:51:21 2007. One possibility (and I'm only speculating here): Recall how light-eight trucks and other aerospace-originated designs did not work well in the NYC subway.Is it possible that Washington Metrorail's railcar design went the "light weight" route inherently, and that WMATA underestimated the punishment the railcars would have to take over their lifetimes? I could be wrong. It's just a wild guess. |
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| (534049) | |
Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 17:51:00 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 16:09:43 2007. One possibility (and I'm only speculating here): Recall how light-eight trucks and other aerospace-originated designs did not work well in the NYC subway.Is it possible that Washington Metrorail's railcar design went the "light weight" route inherently, and that WMATA underestimated the punishment the railcars would have to take over their lifetimes? Well, I don't know enough to evaluate your claim, but it's missing one premise that would mirror it to the case in NYCT, especially on that era of deferred maintenance and slow orders: how smooth is WMATA's trackage? In terms of whether or not the Alstom OH of the Breda 2000/3000 series railcars is working, the last three months of last year saw MDBF numbers increasing toward 100k miles. That said, the OH project fell behind schedule about 24 months; apparently this month is supposed to mark completion of the project. WMATA also reports "several design and engineering issues with the 2000/3000 series Rail Car Rehabilitation including the remanufacture of trucks, Air Compressors, Doors, Automatic Train Control, Propulsion and Traction Motors." Apparently, there have also "been significant issues regarding parts availability for Warranty and repair work at WMATA." The rebuild had been purchased for a cost of over $361 million, and was designed to extend the railcars' useful lives by at least 20 years. A budget overrun of about $20 million occurred. The most serious of the design and engineering issues is the remanufacturing of the trucks. As a result, cars are being delivered out of tolerance. Issues arising from the remanufactured trucks include the chevrons, lateral bumper clearance, uneven wheel wear, the traction motor resilient mount and the brake caliper studs. Premature settling of the chevrons is one of the major issues with the rehabilitated 2000/3000 Series railcars. There are also lingering ATC problems, which are reflected in station overruns, as well as complaints of sub-standard parts supplied by Alstom's suppliers. The CAF 5000 series railcar MDBFs were for the end of last year about 20k miles less than the rehabbed 2000/3000 series. |
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Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 17:55:36 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 17:51:00 2007. Your question about the track is a good one. I assumed that because WMATA is a "new" system, it had mostly continuous welded rail. I could be wrong about that.In NYC, jointed rail is used on elevated lines because it's easier to replace (you use a crane to put new track segments into place - there are published photos of this operation). The 2000 series cars had software problems too (such as related to the rollback business mentioned in the NTSB report). |
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Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 17:58:05 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 17:55:36 2007. One more thing:By pounding, I didn't mean just tracks. Imeant people pounding too - the accumulated effect of having lots of passengers get on and off, hold the doors, etc. over thousands of miles. |
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Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 18:27:25 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 17:55:36 2007. The 2000 series cars had software problems too (such as related to the rollback business mentioned in the NTSB report).In the Woodley Park incident, there was a ton of operator error. But the 2000/3000 series overhauld by Alstom were the only cars at that time, I think, that had rollback protection while the engineer was operating without ATC and only with ASC. The train that rolled back in that incident was a 1000 series, as I recall. The engineer of the train that rolled back seemed just to have fallen asleep with his eyes open, though, which is curious, since he was operating under ASC. Had he been operating one of the overhauled trains, the rollback protection would have been prevented collision. But also, had he applied the brakes, that too would have stopped the train. |
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Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 18:30:05 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Trains to Operate Slow Due to Slippery Track Conditions During Friday's AM Rush, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 18:27:25 2007. Oh, agreed about the collision. The software error is listed in the report, and NTSB says Metrorail assumed that rollback protection was available on all cars, when in fact it ws not.The operator was at fault in this case, of course. As soon as he realized he wasn't getting the appropriate response from his controller he should have "hit the mushroom." (activated Brakes-In-Emergency) |
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