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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Wed Jul 25 10:34:27 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jul 25 10:04:29 2007. ...actually no sane person can complain about air conditioning in the subway and believe me I am thankful every time when I get on the subway and the air conditioning is functioning well (which it usually does) as compared to taking the tube in London which is so sticky and humid that even on days where it's not terribly hot, the tube can be oh so uncomfortable but here's my point for which I can't make a proper comparison.There is something in physics called the law of conservation of energy...when air conditioning is operating the heat has to go somewhere. Arent' the stations now, because of theair conditioning, hotter than ever??? Or am I just imagining that with the difference between the platform and the car...I don't find the stations on the London tube to be as uncomfortable as many of the stations in NY despite the lack of a/c on the coaches. Also in the same way, is it or is it not a fact that with almost every car in this day and age having a/c that the heat has to go somewhere and this might be contributing to the sense of global warming especially in the city? Just some random thoughts. |
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Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 11:11:33 2007, in response to Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jul 24 23:28:15 2007. It's on Orchard Street, just south of Houston. They even have a website. |
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Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 11:25:08 2007, in response to Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 07:33:22 2007. A friend of my mother's moved into a Project when I was a teenager many years ago, not because that was all she could afford, but I think just because she was cheap. I don't know if you were ever inside one of them, but I found it depressing and this was right after it was just built before any graffiti. Why? because although there was plenty light and air, the corridors were extremely narrow that two people could barely pass each other, so that the maximum number of apartments could be crammed in. Also, to keep costs down, there were no doors on any of the closets. Moses believed that poor people didn't deserve such "comforts" as the middle class, but he did care about them, just not in the same way he did about the middle and upper classes. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 25 11:25:46 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by MATHA531 on Wed Jul 25 10:34:27 2007. You're NOT ... with all those cars blowing off heat plus the undercar's heat, and no improvements to tunnel ventilation, the stations are hotter than EVER before. I left the city before "air conditioned cars" made things worse, and thus even on hot days, though you were at "city temperature" down yonder, the tunnels at least retained SOME of the night's cool at least in the morning when you didn't want to appear at work "stinking" ... all different as of air conditioning. :(Windows were open, storm doors usually opened (except the ends of the train) and it wasn't all THAT bad. For us motorpeople, drop sash just like in the cars (along with rollsign duty, window duty and VENT duty was part of train preps) in our cabs did just fine until we got out into the air in the outer boroughs ... but with A/C, you BETCHA the tunnels are a *LOT* hotter than they used to be. :( |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 11:36:26 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jul 24 23:33:24 2007. Myrtle was even more dingy with the el. I remember Sid's Hardware temporarily relocating to Myrtle when they were building Metro Tech and the old Mullins Furniture store, formerly a movie theater. After Metrotech, you would never believe it was the same place.Too bad you don't remember Fulton Street in it's heyday, most of which was also before my time. I just remember the late sixties and it was still pretty decent then, but very crowded. The widened sidewalks (which took 17 years to plan--Moses could have done it in under 3 years if he wanted to) eased the crowding, but never revitalized the area as intended. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 11:38:51 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jul 24 23:52:48 2007. How ironic that it was the business owners who wanted the Jamaica el to come down, to "revitalize" the area. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 11:40:54 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by 5119 on Wed Jul 25 01:27:17 2007. And the Grand Concourse had the best mid-rise housing stock in the borough. What a shame it was to see that area go. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 11:51:54 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by SMAZ on Wed Jul 25 05:55:03 2007. I agree with most everything you said, but I didn't ever get the impression that Moses hated the rich and he definitely did care about the poor. I don't think he wanted to build the Northern State through Old Westbury because he hated the rich; he just wanted a straight and direct parkway. Caro had nothing but praise for Moses when it came to the building of Riverside Park. There weren't many other projects that he didn't associate with some negatism. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 11:58:22 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jul 24 23:47:00 2007. I fully agree with you as to your opinion about the tunnels, I just didn't see how it was relevant to what we were discussing. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 12:08:56 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by ntrainride on Wed Jul 25 01:03:50 2007. I think you are slightly exaggerating. Maybe you don't have highways from the areas you mentioned, but you do have streets like Atlantic Avenue and Conduit Boulevard or Lefferts Blvd from Jamaica which makes it only about 15 minutes to 30 minutes to access the Belt, whereas making the entire trip with local streets would add considerable time to the trip maybe 30 to 45 extra minutes or more with heavy traffic. (Of course nowadays the Southern State is also mobbed going to the Jones Beach, but we're talking about then not now.)Also the LIRR to Rockaway before it was abandoned was much quicker than the subway. Compare 15 minutes with the LIRR to two hours by subway from places like Rego Park and Forest Hills to the Rockaways. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 12:13:40 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by American Pig on Wed Jul 25 01:21:39 2007. Additionally, the quotes from the Power Broker by WillD stated that buses chartered by Blacks had to get special permits which were difficult to obtain. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 12:15:01 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jul 25 10:03:44 2007. I don't know. Does anyone know anything about that? |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 12:27:03 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 25 02:00:57 2007. I agree with you about Lindsay, but not about Dinkins, although I did vote for him the first time he ran. I wonder if you are right when you say Wagner will go down as the poster child for neglect. I hope he does. I remember all the praise he received by the press at his funeral. They even complimented his famous long pauses and hmms when responding to reporters' questions as "political brilliance." What was so brilliant? That the man couldn't think of an answer right away?Too bad his son, Bobby Jr. never became mayor. They were different like night and day. I knew him personally. He was a hell of a nice guy, kept his word, was very smart and had a photographic memory. As my political science teacher told me, "Bobby Jr.' got all the brains of his father in one of his fingers." |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 12:31:06 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 25 11:25:46 2007. I remember when the TV stations brought thermometers down to Grand Central station, one of the hottest, and it registered 20 degrees higher than the street above, close to 120 degrees. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 12:34:04 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 07:23:04 2007. But since subway and rail access is so much better in Downtown Brooklyn, I doubt it that very many would have been crazy enough to take their cars there in the first place. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by E Line Fan on Wed Jul 25 12:43:22 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 11:36:26 2007. The only places I think it actually worked were Third Avenue, Sixth Avenue, Columbus Avenue and Second Avenue in Manhattan and Fulton Street in Brooklyn though I wish the SAS could've been constructed before the Third Avenue El went. Fulton Mall is one of my favorite spots in Brooklyn and is fun to stroll on a Summer day. The item I like about our bridges is they're fun to walk. I enjoy the Brooklyn Bridge and the Willy B. I've heard the Triborough does have sidewalks and the Queensborough does also. |
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Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Jul 25 14:03:32 2007, in response to Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by Rail Blue on Wed Jul 25 05:48:15 2007. (2) To address the causes of poverty: e.g. by increasing the minimum wage, granting tax rebates to large families, etc.The latter would encourage large families unless efforts are made to discourage that (ie make large families as culturally inappropriate as marrying one's cousin). |
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Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:11:42 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by E Line Fan on Wed Jul 25 12:43:22 2007. was just there today...I was in Brooklyn early this morning anyway on business, and I wanted to stop at the Brooklyn Historical Society's "Up from flames" exhibit which is on until the end of August. It charts the fall and rebirth of Bushwick from 1977 to 2007. Unfortunately, it's complete chaos there on in Downtown Brooklyn, and there was no place to park near Pierrepont St where the exhibit is. I will have to go back and park somewhere else, and take the subway there next time..... It's worse than Manhattan down there! Although I must say it's quite beautiful, I was SO impressed as I drove down Myrtle Ave....it's almost a showpiece down there now.... I hadn't been down Myrtle in about a year or two, and wow has it changed. Clinton Hill and Fort Greene are really coming around. If my grandfather could only see it....Forte Greene was a slum when he lived there in the 1930's....I almost hate to say it, but I dunno if it could have looked as beautiful along Myrtle as it is now if the el was still there.... Here's some photos of Myrtle along my drive down to downtown today... Myrtle and Waverly:  Myrtle and Clinton:  Myrtle Near Vanderbilt:  |
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Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jul 25 14:13:20 2007, in response to Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:11:42 2007. Hard to believe there used to be an El overhead. |
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Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:14:25 2007, in response to Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by Fytton on Wed Jul 25 08:46:27 2007. Yes, we ALL do that. I've been on the Empire State, the Statue of Liberty, etc, etc more times than I can count...however, when did I do them?....every time a relative from Europe would come, or a friend from out of town, we would go.... never on my own though, haha.... |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Jul 25 14:26:32 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by MATHA531 on Wed Jul 25 10:34:27 2007. this might be contributing to the sense of global warming especially in the city?No |
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Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Jul 25 14:28:26 2007, in response to Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jul 25 14:13:20 2007. No |
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Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:32:28 2007, in response to Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 11:25:08 2007. Even the streets they are on are depressing. I rode up Gates Ave back from Downtown Brooklyn this morning, through Bedford-Stuyvesant, and wow, is it beautiful along Gates with all the old buildings begining to be fixed up....but this is all south of about Bedford Ave.....once you cross Bedford Ave, it begins to change, and you begin to drive through the projects (on Gates anyway). Granted, they are not the tall, huge ones we always think of, they are only about 4 stories or 5 stories high, but wow, what depressing 1950's and 60's construction. Everything was so utilitarian back then. It's a stark contrast to all the old stuff south of Bedford Ave. And it's not that it seems like a bad neighborhood, it really didn't...I didn't feel unsafe....but wow, how depressing, almost on par to having to live in a prison some of those depressing project builkdings are.....Anyway, I took photos on my way up Gates Ave....but after Bedford, it was too depressing....again, even if not "bad", just blah.... just utilitarian projects, with no trees.... Here's some of the South of Bedford Ave photos.... Gates Ave and Washington:  Gates Ave and Franklin:  Gates Ave and Waverly:  A beautiful old brownstone on Gates Ave near Bedford:  |
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Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by E Line Fan on Wed Jul 25 14:35:01 2007, in response to Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jul 25 14:13:20 2007. Surely and only one small delious problem whilst downtown - Junior's. Cheesecake number one! |
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Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:40:32 2007, in response to Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:11:42 2007. Oh, I forgot... here's the link for the Bushwick 1977-2007 rebirth exhibit. Great old photos of the 1977 Blackout, the burning years and all that stuff....http://www.upfromflames.com |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:45:22 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by SMAZ on Wed Jul 25 05:55:03 2007. Another GREAT post. You covered a lot of what I was trying to say.Well written. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:49:24 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 11:58:22 2007. Someone mentioned that Moses wanted mostly bridges to play on his egos. I was just saying that while bridges "speak" to us more than tunnels, tunnels are just as important. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 25 14:49:36 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 11:40:54 2007. Those are the SPECIFIC addresses that fled to CO-OP city ... and CAUSED the blight. Who would refuse the offers of "3 months RENT FREE, NO DEPOSIT" to replace the former occupants? THERE was where it all went downhill. :(After Co-Op chitty went up, most of the buidings outh of Tremont had 20% occupancy or less and the "out of state" landlords swept up the properties. THAT is what killed the Bronx. Prior to CO-OP CITY, there was no such thing as "absentee landloads." BEFORE that, most of the property owners were RESIDENTS of the building. :( |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:54:01 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 12:08:56 2007. This morning, the Southern State was SO packed on my way to Brooklyn, it was at a complete standstill, moving three carlengths every two or three minutes. I actually got off at the Medowbrook, went south to the Sunrise Highway, and while it had lights, it moved, and actually wasn't bad at all....much faster than if I stayed parked on the Southern State PARKway. And when I finally got to Pennsylvania Ave, it also moved quite nicely.So no, I don't buy the "the parkways are faster than local roads". There are many times, especially when they are busy, that they are not. The Sunrise lights are timed very good. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 25 14:55:31 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 12:13:40 2007. I've been shown copies of those permits, and thus it was TRUE. I already commented on the RACISM of the TBTA and other MOSES agencies, and that specifically is my reason for saying so. It was VERY real. But it went BEYOND that. I was a SHITE boy from the Bronx. *I* got denied to just because of where I lived. So we went to Orchard and Sherwood (Connecticut?) where they didn't CARE given where I lived. :( |
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Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jul 25 14:59:34 2007, in response to Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:11:42 2007. Fort Greene is changing rapidly, especially Lafayette Avenue. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 15:00:10 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by ntrainride on Wed Jul 25 00:29:17 2007. That's what people keep forgetting, that buses CAN go to Jones beach, and always were able too. And really, the Sunrise Highway is not that bad of a trek. Was racism involved? Perhaps, but AGAIN remember the era, this was pre 1964. People are thinking like it is TODAY, and trying to put that in a mindset of a different era and generation. The 60's changed SO MUCH. We are talking the 1920's and 30's here....attitudes were more racist back then. Again, he was a product of his time, and the norm at the time, which is NOT the same as today (thankfully).And personally (and forgetting the original intent, even if that was true, which I am not convinced of), I prefer the Parkways over the Expressways. It's so nice to be able to drive with cars, and not having all the trucks all alongside you and in front of you, and you can see where you are going. it's nice to have roads that aren't like the Expressways. And there are the expressways for everything else. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 15:02:03 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 25 11:25:46 2007. I rather be in hot stations than hot trains. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 15:02:54 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by American Pig on Wed Jul 25 14:26:32 2007. LOL, oh god, I knew that was going to come eventually. Yes, the trains displacing heat from the trains, and putting it instead in the tunnels is contributing to global warming....LOL!!! |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 15:04:32 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 12:34:04 2007. Transit or not, look at all the people that take their cars to the Bronx for the Yankees, and the Mets. You will always have people that will drive. Me personally? I rather take the train so we can have some beers and tailgate on the train on the way in..... (Well LIRR anyway, I knwo you can't do that on the subway....). |
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Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jul 25 15:06:06 2007, in response to Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by Rail Blue on Wed Jul 25 05:48:15 2007. (2) To address the causes of poverty: e.g. by increasing the minimum wage, granting tax rebates to large families, etc. Minimum wage increases do nothing to address poverty since most of those earning it are not poor. Minimum wage jobs are usually held by young people, working mothers or senior citizens, all of whom have additional sources of income. Raising the wage will simply reduce the number of jobs available. It will also encourage illegal immigration (you can pay an illegal anything they'll accept, which is usually less than the minimum wage). Governments cannot cure poverty. It can only ease some of it's symptoms. Adam Smith recognized that every society will have an underclass over 2 centuries ago. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 15:08:13 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 25 14:49:36 2007. Those are the SPECIFIC addresses that fled to CO-OP city ... and CAUSED the blight. Who would refuse the offers of "3 months RENT FREE, NO DEPOSIT" to replace the former occupants? THERE was where it all went downhill. :(And not only COop City....but the suburbs too.... There was an exodus even before the Cross Bronx....the bronx was in trouble way before the Cross Bronx came to town. Sure, it didn't help matters, but the Bronx would have fallen just as hard... There would have been even more empty housing as people fled if it not had been for a lot of housing being taken away for the Cross Bronx. There are many factors involved in the collapse of the Bronx, and this goes way beyond one road and one man. And that's all I was trying to say too....you can't use Robert Moses as the scapegoat for all of NYC's problems, they would have been there regardless. |
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Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Jul 25 15:12:16 2007, in response to Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:32:28 2007. and that is just the point isn't it. The urban renewal of that era assumed Keynesian pump priming with highly paid union contractors building cookie cutter neo tenements would be better public policy than encouraging one by one rehabs as have occurred more recently in the hoods not bulldozed back then. Most importantly, the urban freeways such as the Dan Ryan savaged public transit usage. All of this was indeed linked to the postwar suburbanization/urban abandonment moves. Would you like fries with that SUV? |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 25 15:23:57 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 12:27:03 2007. OK .. lemme back off about Dave ... Lemme s'plain ... heh. I *KNEW* Dave Dinking through Percy Sutton, a CONSUMMATE political WHORE. I was involved as a contractor in rebuilding the APOLLO and WRVR many years ago and as a WHITE BOY, knew the respect my talents offered. Dave was Percy's "boy" and Dave's problem was the same as mine. COLOR BLIND. Those who grew up (like myself) in "disadvantaged areas" didn't KNOW that knee-grows and whites were SUPPOSED to hate. We all played together as kids and never quite GOT that qwap. We was all BUDDIES. When *I* grew up, the word "nigger" (recently buried) meant "nose candy" (and I don't mean "coke") and that's as deep as it ever got.DAVE was as honest as the day was long. I *KNEW* Dave Dinkins, and I *worked* for him. He was like Jimmy Carter in a way, TOO honest and sincere for his own good. He was NOT a politician. PERCY was, and PERCY was a slut. NOT Dave tho' ... Dave GENUINELY believed in all he did and NEVER lost his soul in doing things. And in the end, Dave did WONDERFULLY GOOD things ... but he gfot futtbucked by the press over "Crown Heights" which he just couldn't fathom as to the stupidity that went on there - another testimony to his innocence if not political "savvy" ... Once again, I reiterate a point I've made TOO many times ... those who CAN govern are phucked ... those who are bastards DO ... Dinkins got SHAFTED ... over, and over, and OVER again. I'm sorry ... I KNEW Dave. I WORKED for Dave ... and I'm PROUD to have KNOWN the man ... and he got a RAW deal. :( Ghouliani got the CREDIT for all Dave did ... and more's the pity. :( |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 25 15:26:46 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 12:31:06 2007. Was it BEFORE or after A/C? :) |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Wed Jul 25 15:34:58 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 25 15:23:57 2007. I respected the Honorable Shirley Chisholm "per cy" I mean per se. OT - remarkably, I just got assigned a 3 day trip that overnights in Vermont (ORD - BTV) on both the 26th and 27th... I can actually spend those nights at home instead of out of a suitcase in some hotel... you T/Os never had that problem, thankfully. |
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Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 17:24:34 2007, in response to Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:32:28 2007. When you say south, I assume you mean west.I'm familiar with the area. I have a friend who lives on Gates near Washington. Yes, the area has come a long way. By depressing, I was referring more to the interior rather than the exterior. If the exterior is maintained properly, no garbage graffiti or broken benches, cut grass and no weeds, it isn't that bad, but I doubt that that is the case in many of the projects. |
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Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Jul 25 17:27:24 2007, in response to Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jul 25 15:06:06 2007. No, a permanent underclass is a RESULT of specific socio-economic policies. It is USEFUL as a threat to workers seeking better wages/conditions. |
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Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 17:27:35 2007, in response to Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Jul 25 15:12:16 2007. That's the whole point about rehabs. Moses had it all wrong. He didn't believe in rehabs. He felt that slums were like a cancer that had to be cut out. Tear the whole area down and start over.Now we know better. |
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Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 17:31:45 2007, in response to Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:11:42 2007. It took a long time for Myrtle to improve. It should have happened right after the el was torn down. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 17:37:38 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 15:08:13 2007. Why do you keep saying that the Bronx's decline started before the XBronx? Do you have any proof? I'm not saying that was the cause, but I don't remember any decline in the middle and late fifties. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 17:41:22 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:49:24 2007. I was the one who said that. But you should build what is more practical in a specific situation, not a bridge just because it is prettier. Moses was wrong in refusing to consider building tunnels. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 17:50:05 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:54:01 2007. Now you are guilty of what you've been accusing others of all along, applying today's standards to yesterday's times. No one will argue with you about the situation you described. OF course you are correct today. In fact I did the same thing a couple of months ago.What we were discussing was traffic in the 1930s, not the traffic today. Back then there were no traffic jams on the Southern State and it was always faster than the local roads with lights. Also, the ten cent toll on the Southern State, believe it or not, caused many cars to avoid that section of parkway and they shifted to Merrick Road for a few exits further slowing it down. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 17:54:37 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 15:00:10 2007. I agree with you feeling safer on the Parkways. There is nothing more discomforting than being sandwiched on the BQE between two tractor trailers not knowing if you can be seen and one of them isn't going to try to go in the middle lane turning you into swiss cheese. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 18:02:45 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 25 15:23:57 2007. Glad to hear that Dinkins was a nice person. I never felt that he wasn't. After leaving City Hall, I remember him getting a job teaching at Columbia. I heard the first semester, his class was full, but was nearly empty the second time he taught it. Apparently, most of the students didn't believe he had much to say. |
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