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New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 30 11:18:23 2007

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MTA has posted some photos, some proibably dated from mid-February, on its website regarding ESA construction. Also, there is a new map. The TBM insertio site is in Manhattan; I thought it was in Queens, but clearly the Manhattan site is superior in that you don't have to haul excavation spoils for miles to get it out of the tunnel.

Link here to see





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(423309)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 30 11:20:38 2007, in response to New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 30 11:18:23 2007.

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More photos



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(423310)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by R30A on Mon Apr 30 11:21:27 2007, in response to New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 30 11:18:23 2007.

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Umm... the new tunnel being built is in manhattan, so, logically, the TBM would be inserted there.

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(423317)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 30 11:28:58 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by R30A on Mon Apr 30 11:21:27 2007.

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Agreed. I guess they got over the local complaints (meaning that nobody whines when you dig a hole in the middle of a railyard, but try that in midtown Manhattan...)

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(423320)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 30 11:32:38 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by R30A on Mon Apr 30 11:21:27 2007.

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lol

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(423334)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by JohnL on Mon Apr 30 11:51:13 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by R30A on Mon Apr 30 11:21:27 2007.

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Öand they may still haul the earth out to Queens through the tunnel. It depends on where they are going to dispose of it. I didnít hear about Manhattan getting any bigger (yet again), so I assume the spoils are going to be landfill elsewhere.

I suppose if the spoils get to Sunnyside yard that one option would be to dump them into rail trucks and take them out over the Hellgate bridge.

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(423357)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by NewLots#2 on Mon Apr 30 12:14:41 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JohnL on Mon Apr 30 11:51:13 2007.

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What an incredible waste. From the map, there's room to add tracks and build a station on the 34th tunnel on the east side. Much easier. But they spare no expense for the rich LIRR commuters. Heaven forbid they ever build subways in SE Queens though.


One thing though, according to the map, tracks extend south of GCT. Is that how it is already or are they building that as part of ESA?

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(423368)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 30 13:03:14 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by NewLots#2 on Mon Apr 30 12:14:41 2007.

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What an incredible waste. From the map, there's room to add tracks and build a station on the 34th tunnel on the east side. Much easier.

You're saying that instead of bringing trains into GCT, they should build a station on the East Side of Manhattan along the existing route to Penn Station?

There are a lot of reasons why that won't work, including too much disruption of existing service during construction, too many delays in service once it would open up, and the fact that it adds no new capacity to the LIRR. Those are only 3 reasons. There are tons more.

One thing though, according to the map, tracks extend south of GCT. Is that how it is already or are they building that as part of ESA?

They do not exist today. That will be new construction.

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(423474)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Apr 30 16:42:33 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by NewLots#2 on Mon Apr 30 12:14:41 2007.

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ESA is far from a waste. Try riding a Ronkonkoma train during rush hour. Better not sit down if you're getting off at the intermediate stops, or you're not getting through to the door. There is no more space in the east river tunnels. You'd have to build an entirely new tunnel under the river to do this, plus the expense of building an entirely new station

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(423497)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 30 17:27:01 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Apr 30 16:42:33 2007.

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ESA + Third Track Project = exactly what LIRR needs.

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(423825)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by Sand Box John on Tue May 1 10:37:25 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JohnL on Mon Apr 30 11:51:13 2007.

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Öand they may still haul the earth out to Queens through the tunnel. It depends on where they are going to dispose of it. I didnít hear about Manhattan getting any bigger (yet again), so I assume the spoils are going to be landfill elsewhere.

I suppose if the spoils get to Sunnyside yard that one option would be to dump them into rail trucks and take them out over the Hellgate bridge.


Manhattan schist make great concrete and asphalt aggregate. That what the schist spoil was used for that came out of the tunnels of the A Route Red line in Washington. Most of the Upper Connecticut Avenue section spoil/muck went to an asphalt plant in Crofton Maryland where it was made in to asphalt to pave MD US-50 between New Carrollton and Annapolis prior to the road being totally rebuilt.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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(423829)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by Fytton on Tue May 1 10:49:52 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Apr 30 16:42:33 2007.

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'You'd have to build an entirely new tunnel under the river to do this'

Exactly. The whole point of the ESA project is that the tunnel under the East River is already there, and has been for thirty years and more - the lower level of the 63rd St tunnel - and they are finally going to bring it into use.

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(423845)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by RonInBayside on Tue May 1 11:17:59 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by Sand Box John on Tue May 1 10:37:25 2007.

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Very cool.

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(423977)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by JRice on Tue May 1 14:38:21 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by Sand Box John on Tue May 1 10:37:25 2007.

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The muck from a TBM ranges from fragments to dust. Nothing like aggregate or ballast. Makes nice fill though.

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(423978)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by JRice on Tue May 1 14:39:59 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 30 11:28:58 2007.

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What are you talking about? The TBMs are still going in through tunnel from Queens and the muck is still going out through the existing tunnel and into Queens. The pictures show work at the Bellmouth in Queens.

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(424067)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by mkeit on Tue May 1 19:55:27 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Apr 30 16:42:33 2007.

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The original plan when the 63rd St tunnel was built was an LIRR station at 59th St and 3rd Ave.

The TBMs will be taken into the tunnel in Queens and assembled in the starter cavern in Manhattan.

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(424142)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by Edwards! on Tue May 1 23:34:21 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Tue May 1 14:38:21 2007.

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Maybe they can use it to shore up the EAST RIVER DRIVE in some sections.


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(424184)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by Fred G on Wed May 2 05:54:13 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by Sand Box John on Tue May 1 10:37:25 2007.

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They don't waste spoil material on a project like this. Thanks for the clarification.

your pal,
Fred

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(424197)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by JRice on Wed May 2 08:16:24 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by Edwards! on Tue May 1 23:34:21 2007.

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I'm sure most of it will find a nice home capping landfills.

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(424198)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by Sand Box John on Wed May 2 08:26:32 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Tue May 1 14:38:21 2007.

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The muck from a TBM ranges from fragments to dust. Nothing like aggregate or ballast. Makes nice fill though.

I saw the muck that came out of the tunnels that were bored with a boring machine on WMATA metrorail. Most of the fragments were over 10mm some as large as 30mm. That my friend is aggregate, ballast no.

The stuff is roughly equivalent to the roadbed base material that is called CR6 down here. The stuff is used all over the place down here under pipe lines, under multi duct concrete conduits, under sidewalks, under curbs, under streets, under roads, under driveways, under stone or brick pavers. . . In some locations it's used by itself for driveway and unimproved roads.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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(424352)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by JRice on Wed May 2 17:37:59 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by Sand Box John on Wed May 2 08:26:32 2007.

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Different rock, different results. Since I work on the contract, maybe I have a clue?

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(424409)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 2 18:54:20 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Wed May 2 17:37:59 2007.

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Maybe you can toss some answers my way.

Why wont the MTA build the leads for the Super Express while doing this ESA stuff?

Wouldn't it male more sense to kill two birds with one stone..instead of digging all over again IF its decided on?
Or are they establishing space for the extension?

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(424431)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 2 19:46:50 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 2 18:54:20 2007.

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I believe he already stated in a previous thread that it was cut from the plan in order to save money, but the ESA job will not do/construct anything that will prevent the super-express tunnels from being dug at a later date.

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(424650)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by JRice on Thu May 3 08:30:04 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 2 19:46:50 2007.

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Terrapin got it. One of the older alignments for ESA had T1A and T2A of the NYCT Super Express AND a yard lead extended to the bored tunnel launch wall. ESA would have constructed a bored tunnel and approach into the REA area Sunnyside for a future NYCT yard that even planned for aerial ramps off of the 7 Line viaduct. The fact that NYCT never had an actual MOU or Capital Plan for this yard killed it. The reality of extending place holder tunnels hundreds of feet (including under Northern Blvd at great $/ft) slowly killed the extensions as part of ESA.

The route is indeed protected, but NYCT folks I deal with do not foresee a superexpress in our lifetime. The realities of modern fire and safety codes have increaesd the cost of extending tunnels many times over.

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(424663)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 3 09:10:47 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Wed May 2 17:37:59 2007.

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Different rock, different results. Since I work on the contract, maybe I have a clue?

Sounds to me more like your boring machine will pulverize the rock in to smaller fragments rendering different results. The schist down here was pretty hard rock, admittedly not quit as hard as schist found under Manhattan.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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(425193)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by SMAZ on Fri May 4 02:22:35 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Thu May 3 08:30:04 2007.

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How is the route protected without extending the tunnels? I'm not sure that I understand.

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(425264)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by JRice on Fri May 4 08:23:56 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 3 09:10:47 2007.

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On very hard rock the cutter wheels of a TBM are pressed against the rock and turned chipping the rock in a manner similar to pressure flaking as neolithic man did to create arrow heads. This results in random size pieces popping off and a lot of dust ground off the face. Depending on site conditions, access restraints, contractor preference, etc. a rock crusher may be the first or last step in the muck haul (either by the narrow gauge trains or conveyor.

Still makes excellent drainage material for fill and therfore excellent for highway jobs and fill on track areas below the ballast and subballast.

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(425266)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by JRice on Fri May 4 08:30:15 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by SMAZ on Fri May 4 02:22:35 2007.

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Revised alignments and profiles have been created that keep a 3D envelope clear of ESA works until past 43rd Street. Not too hard to do except just across Northern Blvd in Yard A. In this area, the contract docs for the current open-cut work prohibit tiebacks intruding on these alignments. At the bellmouth, the LIRR segment will be designed to support one of the sidewalls of the Manhattan-bound alignment due to the obvious proximity as the tunnels are back to 2-over-2. A Yard Services Building, which will begin design soon, will require a grade beam foundation to keep footings/piles out of the eastbound alignment.

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(425277)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 09:05:06 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Fri May 4 08:30:15 2007.

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Excellent descriptions in your posts.

There are all kinds of possibilities that can be accomplished in future. I am not as much of a pessimist as you are, though your points about what is expected today in terms of prep work and extra costs are correct. I believe that population pressure may ultimately make another Queens subway service necessary and MTA will find the capital needed to do it. I could be wrong, sure, but I think it's possible.

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(425281)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 09:09:28 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Fri May 4 08:23:56 2007.

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How often do you change the blades?

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(425297)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by Sand Box John on Fri May 4 09:30:19 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Fri May 4 08:23:56 2007.

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The 21' diameter boring machine that was used on the A route Red line had no crusher on it. It ground the rock from the tunnel face in the exact fashion you described. The spoil was conveyed from the cutting head to a narrow gauge muck train and was dumped from the cars at a rotary dump in Rock Creek Park. A front loader was used to load the muck in dump trucks for removal from the site. Out on the Maryland end (Bethesda to the north portal) the muck was lifted out at various vent shafts and the north portal for loading in to dump trucks for removal.

The same boring machine was used for both tunnels from Rock Creek Park to Pooks Hill Road. The lease on the boring machine was transferred from one contractor to the next as the tunnels progressed north to Pooks Hill Road.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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(425370)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by JRice on Fri May 4 13:08:51 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 09:09:28 2007.

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No blades per se, but cutter wheels. The diameters vary from machine but these days very large diameters exist, which need less changing, but with a tungsten steel edge on the wheel, they are very pricey.

The TBMs will require cutter changes as part of regular maintenance. How often will depend on the rock, TBM thrust, and cutter head wheel arrangement.

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(425374)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by JRice on Fri May 4 13:13:01 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by Sand Box John on Fri May 4 09:30:19 2007.

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CM009 will be about the same diameter. No rock crusher and muck will be hauled by a conveyor through the existing tunnel, up above grade at the bellmouth, acorss Northern Blvd in an enclosed bridge supporting the conveyor and out into Yard A. Whether it will be crushed, I do not know yet. The original plan was for rail haul, but NYAR does not seem very interested. That is too bad because the material can be hauled out for use all over LI.

The muck from the Queens tunnels will be contaminated with VOC's and will have to got to NJ or Pennsylvania, likely by truck.

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(425407)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 14:01:19 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Fri May 4 13:13:01 2007.

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They are going to put the TBM into a hole in Manhattan. Will they close up that hole and pave it over as soon as the TBM is in?

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(425434)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by JRice on Fri May 4 14:52:13 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 14:01:19 2007.

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No, the TBM parts are delivered to the Bellmouth in Queens and carried through the existing tunnel. The components will be assembled in two assembly chambers being excavated now. No shafts in Manhattan, except for possible concrete port holes and of course the vent plants which are located off of the tunnel alignment.

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(425435)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 14:54:28 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Fri May 4 14:52:13 2007.

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Aha. The TA had a diagram where they showed what looked like an excavation site in Manhattan. I mistakenly thought that meant there was a hole in the ground there. In fact it's a large underground chamber.

Thank you.

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(425688)

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Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos

Posted by SMAZ on Sat May 5 04:29:46 2007, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Fri May 4 08:30:15 2007.

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thank you.

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(1389839)

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Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 16:44:59 2016, in response to Re: New details on East Side Access construction; photos, posted by JRice on Fri May 4 08:30:15 2007.

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The alignments of the Queens Super Express Tunnels/Tracks from the bellmouth to 43rd Street can be seen in this image. This image is from a very early plan for the East Side Access work in Sunnyside, as it shows the alignments for the cancelled NYCT Yard Lead, as well an alignment for a cancelled second LIRR Yard Lead Tunnel/Track.

The final plan that was constructed included a single LIRR Yard Lead with a revised alignment, which may conflict with the alignments for the Queens Super Express Tunnels shown in this image, at 43rd Street.

The Queens Super Express Alignment can be seen at the bottom right of the image near the words "43rd Street". The two horizontal lines that cross through the word "Street" are NYCT T1A (the Northern most of these two horizontal red lines) and NYCT T2A (the Southernmost of these two horizontal red lines).



The red lines are the centerlines of the tunnel/track alignments for each respective tunnel/track.

NYCT T1A - Westbound Queens Super Express Track (not labeled in image)
NYCT T2A - Eastbound Queens Super Express Track (not labeled in image)
NYCT Lead - track to proposed NYCT yard in unused south eastern section of Sunnyside Yard
Inbound Lead Track - Westbound LIRR Yard Lead Track (towards Grand Central Terminal)
Outbound Lead Track - Eastbound LIRR Yard Lead Track (towards the midday storage yard)
Track A - Westbound LIRR Track
Track B/C - Peak Direction LIRR Track
Track D - Eastbound LIRR Track

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(1389848)

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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 17:15:02 2016, in response to Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 16:44:59 2016.

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The alignments have been protected through Sunnyside, and would exist to the East and West of the LIRR East Side Access "Q-Tip".

No work on the Queens Super Express has been performed beyond where the limits of the 63rd Street Connector bellmouth provisions ended.

This image below shows the extent of the work done under the 63rd Street Connector Contracts:


The limits of that work in relation to the East Side Access work, can be seen in this image from the East Side Access EIS:


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(1389849)

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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by Steamdriven on Mon Mar 21 17:15:34 2016, in response to Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 16:44:59 2016.

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Lots of info in that one drawing! That yard looks packed, as if it needs a bit more land for expansion.

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(1389856)

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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 17:51:31 2016, in response to Re: Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 17:15:02 2016.

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An early plan for the East Side Access work included a Track/Tunnel for NYCT that would lead to a yard in the southeastern section of Sunnyside Yard.

This image below shows the NYCT Yard Lead crossing above the LIRR tracks at the Norther Boulevard Crossing:


NYCT T1A - Westbound Queens Super Express Track
NYCT T2A - Eastbound Queens Super Express Track
NYCT Yard Lead - track to proposed NYCT yard in unused southeastern section of Sunnyside Yard
LIRR Track A - Westbound LIRR Track (there is a misprint in this image, as both LIRR Tracks are labled "LIRR Track A")


A second image from a later plan of the bellmouth, (after the NYCT Yard and its Yard Lead were cancelled) can be seen below:



NYCT T1A - Westbound Queens Super Express Track
NYCT T2A - Eastbound Queens Super Express Track
NYCT Yard Lead - track to proposed NYCT yard in unused southeastern section of Sunnyside Yard
LIRR Track A - Westbound LIRR Track
LIRR Track B/C - Peak Direction LIRR Track



Below is an early (circa 2000-2001) very "Not-to-Scale" rendering of the East Side Access Sunnyside Tunnels that shows the NYCT Yard Lead:


NYCT Yard Lead - track to proposed NYCT yard in unused southeastern section of Sunnyside Yard
Inbound Lead Track - Westbound LIRR Yard Lead Track (towards Grand Central Terminal)
Outbound Lead Track - Eastbound LIRR Yard Lead Track (towards the midday storage yard)
Track A - Westbound LIRR Track
Track B/C - Peak Direction LIRR Track
Track D - Eastbound LIRR Track


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(1389859)

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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 18:05:40 2016, in response to Re: Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 17:51:31 2016.

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Below are two cross sections of the Northern Boulevard crossing from one of the East Side Access contract plans that show the location of where the Queens Super Express Tunnel/Track alignment for Tunnel/Track T1A.

The first cross section is North of Northern Boulevard, the orientation is facing South, so the left side of the image would be East and the right side of the image would be West:


Future NYCT T1A Track - Westbound Queens Super Express Track



The second cross section is South of Northern Boulevard, the orientation is facing North, so the left side of the image would be West and the right side of the image would be East:


Future NYCT T1A Track - Westbound Queens Super Express Track

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(1389881)

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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by VictorM on Mon Mar 21 19:13:00 2016, in response to Re: Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 18:05:40 2016.

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Very interesting. Thanks for posting all these drawings. I have a question about these last two drawings: The arch crossing under Northern Blvd runs mostly east and west, so shouldn't the drawings be facing west and east, not north and south?

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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 19:18:05 2016, in response to Re: Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 18:05:40 2016.

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This cross section is South of Northern Boulevard at the LIRR East Side Access "Q-Tip", the orientation is facing South, so the left side of the image would be East and the right side of the image would be West:


Future NYCT T1A Tunnel - Westbound Queens Super Express Tunnel/Track
Future NYCT T2A Tunnel - Eastbound Queens Super Express Tunnel/Track


Below are two images from East Side Access contract plans that show the location of where the Queens Super Express Tunnel/Track alignment for Tunnel/Track T1A and Tunnel/Track T2A are in relation to the "Q-Tip".




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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 19:32:25 2016, in response to Re: Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by VictorM on Mon Mar 21 19:13:00 2016.

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Yes, that is correct, my mistake.
The Northern Boulevard crossing runs North-West (GCT bound) and South-East (Sunnyside bound). The orientation descriptions were written to help easily allow someone to understand the direction/angle the image is viewing, and I wrote the North-South-East-West descriptions relative to Northern Boulevard, so I wasn't correct in a literal sense, or in a technical sense for that matter. Thank you for pointing that out, I do appreciated it.

Also, I'm very glad that you are enjoying these images, as I have yet to see them posted before, and thought others would find them interesting/useful. I've often see comments in threads or on other websites where it is mentioned as "established fact" the the Queens Super Express provisions have been extended beyond what was completed in the fall of 2001 on the 63rd Street Connector project, when that isn't the case. Looking at the engineering/contract plans, you get a better sense of what is fact and what is conjecture.

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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 19:41:04 2016, in response to Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 16:44:59 2016.

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Below is a higher resolution version of image showing the Queens Super Express alignments to 43rd Street.


The red lines are the centerlines of the tunnel/track alignments for each respective tunnel/track.

NYCT T1A - Westbound Queens Super Express Track (not labeled in image)
NYCT T2A - Eastbound Queens Super Express Track (not labeled in image)
NYCT Yard Lead - Track to proposed NYCT yard in unused south eastern section of Sunnyside Yard
Inbound Lead Track - Westbound LIRR Yard Lead Track (towards Grand Central Terminal)
Outbound Lead Track - Eastbound LIRR Yard Lead Track (towards the midday storage yard)
Track A - Westbound LIRR Track
Track B/C - Peak Direction LIRR Track
Track D - Eastbound LIRR Track

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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Oct 17 07:31:55 2016, in response to Re: Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Mar 21 19:41:04 2016.

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Here is a more recent image reflecting the as-built alignments for the East Side Access soft bore tunnels (in Red), East Side Access mixed bore tunnel (in Blue) and the unbuilt NYCT Super Express tunnels (in Green).

The right of way for the NYCT Super Express Tracks has not been precluded by the East Side Access work, with the protected right of way extending to 43rd Street. At this point the tunnels must be at some considerable depth, as they would have had to pass underneath the now existing LIRR East Side Access tunnels, new retention walls, and all other associated new below ground obstructions.


Red Tunnels - LIRR Revenue Tracks
Blue Tunnel - LIRR Yard Lead Track
Green Tunnels - NYCT T1A Westbound & NYCT T2A Eastbound Queens Super Express Tracks


Source:
VDC - East Side Access, New York
Parsons Brinckerhoff - 2013
https://vimeopro.com/projectviz/vdc-videos/video/72678833

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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 14:54:44 2016, in response to Re: Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Oct 17 07:31:55 2016.

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Are the Super-Express tunnels maintained in any way? Never knew that any of it was built.

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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 17 18:27:39 2016, in response to Re: Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by jamestrains1 on Mon Oct 17 07:31:55 2016.

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Thank you for posting this! I had completely forgotten that ESA included a hook track into Sunnyside for Arch St. This actually solves a major dilemma of mine from another project I want to see come to fruition. Also, I had no idea the super express tunnels had been built out that far (looks to be 43rd St). Do you know where I could find a diagram of the Roosevelt Av/74th St station, or have an explanation of the unused upper level there? Would it be possible, say, to run the super express tunnel into this upper level, and then have the trains continue down the local tracks of QB (where I understand there is spare capacity, no?). I'm trying to think of what kind of service pattern would work here exactly, but is this at least physically possible? Also, with the tunnels supposedly being built out as far as they are, is it possible for something to come into those tunnels from, say, Van Dam St?

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Re: Queens Super Express Alignment

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 17 22:51:47 2016, in response to Re: Queens Super Express Alignment, posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 14:54:44 2016.

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I don't think any of that green was actually built. It looks as though it is simply a protected right of way, meaning new construction can't block it from actually being built if it is ever funded. Right now, it looks as though lower 2 Ave will come first.

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