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| (193115) | |
Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 22:11:42 2005 I was riding the Queens Blvd local today, looking for the abandoned trackways toward the LIRR Rockaway Line at 63rd Drive and to the terminal station at Roosevelt Avenue.Then at Woodhaven Boulevard I noticed something I didn't expect. A trackway branched off the local before the station and seemed to run on the other side of the station wall. Then, after passing the station, the trackway rejoined the main line. There were trackways on both sides (71 Av-bound and Manhattan-bound). Anyone know anything about these? |
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| (193120) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Tue Dec 27 22:14:41 2005, in response to Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 22:11:42 2005. I believe those were provisions to convert it to an express station, if needed. |
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| (193121) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Dec 27 22:15:21 2005, in response to Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 22:11:42 2005. Are you sure you're not confusing 63 Drive with the section from Continental Ave and Van Wyck Blvd? |
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| (193123) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by mambomta on Tue Dec 27 22:16:12 2005, in response to Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 22:11:42 2005. A trackway branched off the local before the station and seemed to run on the other side of the station wall. Then, after passing the station, the trackway rejoined the main line. There were trackways on both sides (71 Av-bound and Manhattan-bound).Those are bellmouths. They do not go behind the station. It was mention here that those were for the possibility of conversion of Woodhaven to an express stop. |
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| (193135) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 27 22:25:34 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by mambomta on Tue Dec 27 22:16:12 2005. Woodhaven Blvd. is a more logical place to put an express stop than Continental is. |
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| (193137) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by xtimx on Tue Dec 27 22:27:05 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 27 22:25:34 2005. agreed 100%.but at the time of its contruction i guess it was the other way around. |
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| (193157) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 27 23:03:11 2005, in response to Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 22:11:42 2005.  Anyone know anything about these? Yes. 
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| (193159) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 23:06:51 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by mambomta on Tue Dec 27 22:16:12 2005. Well when I looked back after passing Woodhaven, as the trackway rejoined the main line, it sure looked like it ran on the outside of the side platform. I could easily be mistaken, however. |
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| (193161) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 23:08:52 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 27 22:25:34 2005. Hmm. Well ...If Woodhaven WAS an express stop, and 71st WASN'T, where would you put the next express stop, eastbound (after Woodhaven)? Or would you just have it go Roosevelt -> Woodhaven -> 71? |
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| (193164) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by xtimx on Tue Dec 27 23:12:23 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 23:08:52 2005. spacing wise it makes sense the way it is now.but ridership wise it doesn't. |
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| (193177) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by mambomta on Tue Dec 27 23:35:31 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 23:06:51 2005. What you can see is all that is there. |
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| (193182) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Tunnel Rat on Tue Dec 27 23:58:26 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 23:06:51 2005. The original plan was to make it an express stop if pass.traffic picked up.2nd plan was to run it down the center of the LIE when it was being built.bobby moses said HELL NO!so no r.t. on the l.i.e.3rd plan was the same as the second.this was hatched in the same time period as the 63st.tunnel,archer ave. ext.and died a quick death. |
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| (193187) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by David H on Wed Dec 28 00:21:59 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Tunnel Rat on Tue Dec 27 23:58:26 2005. The LIE went as far as being designed..When the bottom dropped out,this line, just like the following..were put to pasture. Utica Avenue subway Second Avenue subway Sections A,B and C Avenue C Connector Nostrand avenue Extention Queens Super Express Rodgers Junction Rebuild Canarsie Line Relocation 48TH st subway New Third Avenue line Co-op City extention Livonia avenue extention Southeast Queens subway Extentions. Direct Manhattan/JFK raillink via the Atlantic line/Mahattan Bridge/Rockaway branch. The other project that sunk even faster was the new rail terminal under 3rd avenue and 48th st... Nice.. |
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| (193193) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Dec 28 00:41:23 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 27 22:25:34 2005. Woodhaven Blvd. is a more logical place to put an express stop than Continental is.Queens & Woodhaven Blvds in 1930, before IND construction 
   
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| (193253) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 28 08:17:47 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Dec 28 00:41:23 2005. I presume the track in the shots is streetcar track. I see bracket arms in the shots. |
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| (193282) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Dec 28 08:42:59 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 28 08:17:47 2005. That it is. Building the Queens line was a piece of cake. |
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| (193287) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Tunnel Rat on Wed Dec 28 08:46:19 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Dec 28 08:17:47 2005. Dan,that is the trackage of the manhattan&queens trolley co.that ran from156st.&109ave.in south jamaica to the underground trolley terminal at 2nd.ave &59st.n.y.c.a book by vincent seyfried&joe saita will be coming out on this line soon. |
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| (193412) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 28 12:45:47 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Dec 28 00:41:23 2005. I said "is", not "was". That's what most of Queens looked like before the subway came. |
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| (193416) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 28 12:51:21 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 23:08:52 2005. I addressed this on my fantasy map. Union Tpke. would be the eastern terminus for locals. Continental would be a local stop, Woodhaven an express. So the E/F would run from Queens Plaza to Roosevelt Ave to Woodhaven Blvd and then to Union Tpke. "Jamaica Yard" would be moved west....maybe even into Jamaica itself. |
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| (193418) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Dec 28 12:52:25 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 28 12:45:47 2005. Still, Continental is a good choice for an express stop because of the terminal aspects and location of the Jamacia yard. It should not be a case of Continental or Woodhaven as an express stop.Woodhaven, local now, possible express in the furtue! As an express, Woodhaven would kill the Queens Blvd Dash. avid |
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| (193419) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 28 12:52:39 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 23:08:52 2005. I addressed this on my fantasy map. Union Tpke. would be the eastern terminus for locals. Continental would be a local stop, Woodhaven an express. So the E/F would run from Queens Plaza to Roosevelt Ave to Woodhaven Blvd and then to Union Tpke. "Jamaica Yard" would be moved west....maybe even into Jamaica itself. |
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| (193420) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 28 12:54:17 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Dec 28 12:52:25 2005. The yard could have been placed anywhere. Ever see an overhead shot of it when it opened in the mid 1930's? A sea of tracks, surrounded by an ocean of nothing. |
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| (193424) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Dec 28 12:57:03 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 28 12:51:21 2005. I can't think of many places to put the "new Jamacia" yard.Maybe the LIRR Morris Park facility, since Hillside has assumed that old service task? avid |
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| (193430) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Dec 28 12:58:54 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 28 12:54:17 2005. Sorry, I was thinking in terms of the present.avid |
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| (193626) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 28 19:43:40 2005, in response to Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Tue Dec 27 22:11:42 2005. Yes. I made use if them in my fantasy plan for extra Queens Express tracks. |
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| (193703) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by //ROOT on Wed Dec 28 22:23:32 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by David H on Wed Dec 28 00:21:59 2005. Canarsie line relocation? What was that about? |
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| (193704) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by //ROOT on Wed Dec 28 22:24:30 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by David H on Wed Dec 28 00:21:59 2005. And 48TH STREET SUBWAY? Whoa. |
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| (193706) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by //ROOT on Wed Dec 28 22:27:56 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 28 12:51:21 2005. Jamaica is east of the current yard, not west ... but more importantly, where would you move it to? There isn't much available space around there. |
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| (193707) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by //ROOT on Wed Dec 28 22:28:37 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Dec 28 00:41:23 2005. Are those pictures from somewhere online? If so, what's the website? |
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| (193708) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by //ROOT on Wed Dec 28 22:29:25 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 28 12:51:21 2005. I addressed this on my fantasy map.Is this fantasy map of yours online somewhere? |
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| (193709) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by mambomta on Wed Dec 28 22:29:54 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Dec 28 12:57:03 2005. Maybe the LIRR Morris Park facility, since Hillside has assumed that old service task?Too far away. Morris Park yard is in Richmond Hill, practically next to the Jamaica Line. BTW Morris Park is still used. They store diesel equipment there, |
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| (193710) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by //ROOT on Wed Dec 28 22:31:53 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Dec 28 12:57:03 2005. Where exactly is the Morris Park facility? |
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| (193712) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Dec 28 22:33:23 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Wed Dec 28 22:31:53 2005. On Atlantic Avenue between Lefferts Blvd and Van Wyck. |
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| (193714) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by mambomta on Wed Dec 28 22:35:49 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Dec 28 22:33:23 2005. On Atlantic Avenue between 123rd St and 127th St. |
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| (193723) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Dec 28 23:01:26 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by mambomta on Wed Dec 28 22:35:49 2005. If //ROOT decides to drive to Morris Park, he should have no problem finding it. |
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| (193760) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Dec 29 01:13:55 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Dec 28 08:42:59 2005. 'Building the Queens line was a piece of cake'what type of cake??? |
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| (193764) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Booge on Thu Dec 29 02:00:47 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Dec 28 08:42:59 2005. Its a piece of cake when effective infrastructure planning coincides with the building of a new subway line. As the photo shows, Queens Blvd was mostly open space when the subway was built. The line allowed this development to take place. The opportunity for such construction is scarce today because many parts of every borough except for SI were built up without any thought of rapid transit going through them. |
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| (193772) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Booge on Thu Dec 29 02:31:21 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Wed Dec 28 22:23:32 2005. An attempt to relocate the Canarsie line into the median of an extended Interborough Parkway. Not sure it where it would end. Starrett city perhaps? When the highway was nixed, the plan died. 1968. |
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| (193777) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by David H on Thu Dec 29 03:42:27 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Booge on Thu Dec 29 02:31:21 2005. You sure about that?From what I understood..the plan had the Canarsie line moved over to the LONG ISLAND RAILROAD's Bay Ridge branch from Wilson ave to Flatbush avenue/Avenue H ..with a transfer to the New Nostrand and Utica avenue subways extentions. |
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| (193779) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Booge on Thu Dec 29 03:48:17 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by David H on Thu Dec 29 03:42:27 2005. I'm checking old New York Division bulletins now. |
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| (193781) | |
Canarsie Line Relocation Proposal Circa 1968 |
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Posted by Booge on Thu Dec 29 04:09:22 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Booge on Thu Dec 29 03:48:17 2005. From the October, 1968 New York Division ERA Bulletin "On September 20, 1968 the city Board Of Estimate approved the construction of several subway routes, reported to be the greatest at least since the dual contracts of 1968. The approved routes(13 in all, real fantasy map stuff here) are:20- Elimination of the the Present BMT Canarsie Line south from Broadway Junction to Rockaway Parkway and relocation along the proposed Queens Interboro Expressway, which would run parallel to the present line to near Linden Blvd(Between New Lots and East 105 Street Stations) the Queens Interboro expressway would join the proposed Cross Brooklyn Expressway. The replaced Canarsie Line would then turn east along the Cross Brooklyn Expressway, which would run Parallel Flatlands Ave Ave and terminate near the Queens-Brooklyn Border." There was also an 'A' branch which would run west along the 'CBX' to an unknown terminal, using a 'to be determined conveyance. Such a line would screw the passengers to or from Rockaway Parkway Station. |
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| (193788) | |
Re: Canarsie Line Relocation Proposal Circa 1968 |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Dec 29 06:25:10 2005, in response to Canarsie Line Relocation Proposal Circa 1968, posted by Booge on Thu Dec 29 04:09:22 2005. "...reported to be the greatest at least since the dual contracts of 1968."Either you copied it wrong or the ERA Bulletin had a misprint. The Dual Contracts were drawn up and executed starting in 1913, not 1968. |
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| (193800) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Thu Dec 29 08:43:49 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by //ROOT on Wed Dec 28 22:24:30 2005. Well, 48th Street was meant to be some sort of hub. |
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| (193816) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 29 09:06:43 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by monorail on Thu Dec 29 01:13:55 2005. Boston (Bahston) Cream Pie.:) |
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| (193819) | |
Re: Canarsie Line Relocation Proposal Circa 1968 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 29 09:15:13 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie Line Relocation Proposal Circa 1968, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Dec 29 06:25:10 2005. You're right. The Board of Estimate did propose new subway lines (I thought it was 11, not 13, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were 13) without stopping to think about just where in hell they'd get the money.Even counting the 4 for 1 federal match which San Francisco and Washington used to get their systems started, there couldn't possibly have been enough money for 13 new lines. Maybe two or three full length ones if everything had been handled right and NYC hadn't been diving into bankruptcy. The Beame Shuffle, the most moronic thing an NYC Mayor ever did, forfeited $1 billion in federal funds in the 1970s. Had that event not happened, one full-length line (say, the Archer Av project or the 63rd St project) would have been implemented as originally intended. |
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| (193868) | |
Re: Canarsie Line Relocation Proposal Circa 1968 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 29 11:09:37 2005, in response to Canarsie Line Relocation Proposal Circa 1968, posted by Booge on Thu Dec 29 04:09:22 2005. Booge, this must have been another proposal, as I also heard the relocation to the Bay Ridge line for the Canarsie line too...Unless the expressway you mentioned also would have been in the ROW of the Bay Ridge LIRR line.... |
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| (193896) | |
Re: Canarsie Line Relocation Proposal Circa 1968 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B on Thu Dec 29 12:22:49 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie Line Relocation Proposal Circa 1968, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 29 09:15:13 2005. Money was never the rqal issue. 1. SF started w/o Fed money then got it backfilled as grpss cost overrubs thtreatened a Cincinnati.2.2-3 fewer B-1(2) bombers @ 2 billion a copy could pay for lots of actually useful projects. 3. From what was quoted one thinks the plan was to get most of the ROW built as a highway project having learnt from Richard (Daley) I |
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| (193903) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Dec 29 12:55:37 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 29 09:06:43 2005. yum! |
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| (193908) | |
Re: Canarsie Line Relocation Proposal Circa 1968 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 29 13:04:33 2005, in response to Re: Canarsie Line Relocation Proposal Circa 1968, posted by Jackson Park B on Thu Dec 29 12:22:49 2005. You make an interesting point on Daley's use of highway money to help get a ROW established, but, no your other points are wrong. SF notwithstanding, it wasn't prudent then and it isn't prudent now to forfeit federal matrching funds. SF started without it but got the money later. NYC forfeited because it moved money to its operating account. And the military budget had nothing to do with it either; the billion dollars was there for the asking, and Mayor Beame turned it down. |
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| (193916) | |
Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Dec 29 13:50:07 2005, in response to Re: Trackways at Woodhaven Blvd, posted by mambomta on Wed Dec 28 22:29:54 2005. Is it not possible for the tracks for the "E" train south of Jamaica Ave to go to Morris Park if space were availible?Avid |
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