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| Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool (1650201) | |
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| (1650201) | |
Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 11 14:41:11 2026 Mayor Mamdani, Governor Hochul and MTA Announce Plan to dissipate warmth of collectivism from subway platforms |
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| (1650202) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Avid reader on Tue Aug 11 15:24:31 2026, in response to Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 11 14:41:11 2026. For decades the MTA sealed up many sidewalk grates and sealed many street stairways. |
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| (1650203) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 11 16:07:13 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Avid reader on Tue Aug 11 15:24:31 2026. Making use of "wasted" energy--hot or cool--os a great thing. 45 years ago, I suggested a heat exchanger between the freon loop for 'walk in' and rge hot water heater at a bakery. Result? both gas and electricity usage dropped (aling with billing). The installation paid for itself on under a year.Today we speak of heat pumps which in summer can replace energy spent heaing hot wter in homesAny of you wlking around lower Manhattan may have noticed steam vents from Con Ed system which provides hear to building in lower Manhattan. 'Borrowing' excess heat from Chambers St would seem advantageous for all. FWIW hot water in my home is directly heated by panel on the roof--net cost electricity to pump the water up. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1650204) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 11 18:14:26 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 11 16:07:13 2026. FWIW hot water in my home is directly heated by panel on the roof--net cost electricity to pump the water up.But there is also the capital cost. Plumbers are expensive. And the panels need to be manufactured strong enough, and installed firmly enough, to withstand the rare very high winds. |
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| (1650205) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 11 21:11:47 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 11 18:14:26 2026. So one of the 3 panels was a srorefront demo in the 80s--still functional. The other two were bought about a decade ago at the factory in Rochmond CA replacing several 1980s units. Mounting hardware is a mix of sreel (common electrical item) and solar aluminum trut. I am the plumber (electrician by trade) although i had some aid from friends.Given the system in general went online in 1997-8, I am pleased w/ functionality. |
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| (1650209) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Aug 12 01:41:39 2026, in response to Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 11 14:41:11 2026. Those two can send that hot air… |
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| (1650211) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 12 07:11:49 2026, in response to Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 11 14:41:11 2026. The initial feasibility study will help determine how much cooling can be achieved and the potential energy cost savings for the City.This is a study - no mention of actually implementing anything. |
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| (1650212) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed Aug 12 07:12:42 2026, in response to Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 11 14:41:11 2026. I can't wait. I wonder where all that heat comes from. |
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| (1650213) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed Aug 12 07:24:55 2026, in response to Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 11 14:41:11 2026. "Bringing down the temperature is a real challenge in a century-old system with open entrances and vents everywhere," said MTA Chair and CEO Janno Lieber. "Together with Governor Hochul and Mayor Mamdani, we're exploring solutions — previously untested in transit — to make stations more comfortable while helping to reduce energy costs. Everybody wins.I wonder how you spell,"BOONDOGGLE". Hochul, mamdummy and Lieber winder where the hot air is coming from? Ldt me lmow when they figure that out. |
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| (1650214) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 12 09:51:49 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 12 07:11:49 2026. Agreed.I've always been suspicious of any planned large scale thermal projects. They are great in theory but practically speaking plumbing is very expensive. |
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| (1650215) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 12 09:54:41 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 11 21:11:47 2026. I am the plumberThat makes all the difference in the world to the return on investment. I've priced out solar for our rooftop (not plumbing, but electrical and construction work, which are also very expensive) and it costs easily 5 times what solar is an open field would cost. |
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| (1650218) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by numbersix on Wed Aug 12 14:45:05 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Aug 12 01:41:39 2026. Build a TARDIS and go six months in the past. Bring back cold air. |
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| (1650219) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed Aug 12 15:20:57 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Aug 12 01:41:39 2026. At 216,000 BTU of air conditioning per subway car, you probably can guess where a large portion of the heat is coming from. |
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| (1650227) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 13 02:37:43 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by AlM on Wed Aug 12 09:54:41 2026. OTOH, no dimwits im the mideast will be able to wreck your budget for electricity. Despite claims we pump enough oil for all of our needs why are the oil company traitors screwing us on pricing? |
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| (1650230) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 13 07:41:37 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 13 02:37:43 2026. How are the “oil company traitors” screwing us on pricing? |
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| (1650236) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 13 15:57:02 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 13 07:41:37 2026. Their well pumping costs and refinery costs have not risen. Chevron, for exsample, pump oil from wells they own within CA ship it by tail to their refinery in Richmond cA. The refinery charges to the gasoline distribution segment of the company should not have risen. This is how vertically organized corporations function. Because the intrnal charges are 'arbitrary' they can be fiddled by upper management. As to the RRs shipping the oil, those are long term contracts. |
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| (1650320) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Aug 20 17:55:45 2026, in response to Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 11 14:41:11 2026. It must be amazing to promise the craziest stuff and not face consequences when it fails. One party rule is awesome. |
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| (1650334) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Aug 22 10:44:25 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Aug 20 17:55:45 2026. The next thing you know, they'll be rolling out five-year plans. |
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| (1650337) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Aug 22 21:43:30 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 13 15:57:02 2026. If oil is cheap, the trope is they're manipulating the market to drive out clean energy. if it's expensive the trope is they're "price gouging". Given those alternatives, the reasonable thing for the oil company is to raise prices until buyers go away, then ease until roughly the point of maximum revenue.Maxxing revenue as also the legally required thing for them do to. The law states they've gotta reward you when you buy their shares rather than shunting company money into some cause their senile uncle or their silly nephews consider to be cool. Cutting prices well below market could (and should) get them fired, it could also get the officers put in jail. Your great-grandparents lived without oil heat and gasoline, so can you ;-) |
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| (1650360) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 23 23:04:12 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Aug 22 21:43:30 2026. IAWTP |
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| (1650361) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 23 23:05:18 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 13 15:57:02 2026. So?The price is based on what the market can bear, not the cost of production. |
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| (1650363) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 24 00:49:23 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Aug 22 21:43:30 2026. We should be making every effort to get PV on individual buildings, electrify the main lines, and STOP pumping oil, digging coal. In the latter cas. as a nation we would be $$ ahead noto mention a more humand society, to shut aLL of the oal mines and simply pay the miners not tospend 40 hours a week trying to get black lung disease. |
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| (1650364) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 24 00:53:14 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 23 23:05:18 2026. Yes, like unto rent control, energy price control will benefit all but the execs and shareholders, For ethical clarity, I own a miniscule bit of CSX--not because they haul coal but because they include the B&O, my favorite RR of them all. |
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| (1650389) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 25 09:18:19 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 23 23:04:12 2026. Of course, neither of you is taking into account the massive subsidy that is being provided to oil companies by the public. They are not being charged any of the costs related to the environmental damage resulting from burning oil rather than producing power in less harmful ways. |
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| (1650393) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 25 11:19:41 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 25 09:18:19 2026. That’s not a subsidy, that’s a negative externality. If we priced that correctly, people would complain about taxes.The major problem with that is when something is proposed to charge for the negative externalities associated with the molecular waste*, we run up against climate change deniers and people who claim that humans are incapable of changing the climate. *we need a term that sounds as scary as “nuclear waste” when it comes to organic energy extraction, although coal power plants do release more dangerous radionuclides into the environment than a well-run nuclear power plant. |
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| (1650394) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 25 11:29:07 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 24 00:49:23 2026. I agree with you about coal, but the market is taking care of that, at least in the US.We’re not there on oil and gas and we can’t get there without more nuclear. |
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| (1650395) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 25 11:36:32 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 24 00:53:14 2026. OMG!Rent control is the worst possible policy and you want to expand it to everything else? Price controls would benefit no one and would lead only to shortages and suffering. I indirectly own an exceedingly minuscule bit of BNSF, CSX, NS and UP through my ownership of shares of an S&P 500 index fund. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Aug 25 11:50:05 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Avid reader on Tue Aug 11 15:24:31 2026. The MTA did that because people dropped things into the gratings and that attracted rats and potentially started fires. The stairways were sealed to prevent vandals entering the closed stations.People don't realize that the existing grates let in rain and snow during inclement weather. The MTA could seal those up too. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 25 17:38:09 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 25 11:29:07 2026. Moderate cost nuclear (modular plants built in factories, not on site) is coming into play more slowly than expected.But why do you keep denying that solar + batteries is becoming cheaper than anything else? |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 25 17:40:36 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 25 11:36:32 2026. through my ownership of shares of an S&P 500 index fundYeah, it really pisses me off that I own a small share of companies run by the Musk rat. Fortunately not SpaceX, at least so far. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Aug 25 18:12:19 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Aug 22 10:44:25 2026. That means they actually want to do stuff.Leave building things or doing stuff to the Asians. Abdul and Illan aren't good at this. They can't even finish their genocide that they keep chanting for 1400 years. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Aug 25 18:21:47 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 25 17:38:09 2026. Solar & batteries cheaper in the short term. Nuclear energy cheaper and cleaner in the long term.Besides, what type of energy and fuel was used to produce and manufacture solar panels & batteries in the first place? |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Avid reader on Wed Aug 26 07:53:16 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Aug 25 11:50:05 2026. The MTA did that because people dropped things into the gratings and that attracted rats and potentially started fires. The stairways were sealed to prevent vandals entering the closed stations.People don't realize that the existing grates let in rain and snow during inclement weather. The MTA could seal those up too. And so, you sweat! Better ways to seal could be found! |
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Another Socialist Money Pit: was Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed Aug 26 09:38:19 2026, in response to Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 11 14:41:11 2026. "New York City and the MTA launched a feasibility study for a Thermal Energy Network to capture extreme summer heat from subway tunnels and platforms—such as the Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall and Chambers Street stations—and redirect it to heat nearby municipal buildings in the winter.Why NYC Subway Tunnels Are HotTrapped Heat: Underground concrete and steel absorb heat and slowly release it like a hot box.Train Operations: Braking mechanisms, friction, and onboard air conditioning exhaust dump massive amounts of heat into the confined underground space.Crowd Density: High numbers of commuting passengers add considerable ambient body heat.Open Architecture: Because subway stations feature open stairwells, street entrances, and passive vents rather than sealed submarine-like environments, traditional AC cannot be effectively installed for platforms.The Thermal Energy Network (TEN) PlanThe Goal: Lower platform temperatures during sweltering summer months while recycling waste heat.How It Works: Geothermal boreholes (500 to 600 feet deep) combined with circulating pumps and radiant technology would harvest excess subterranean heat.Target Buildings: Captured energy would warm nearby spaces like the David Dinkins Municipal Building, City Hall, and Tweed Courthouse during cold weather.Timeline: The initial $800,000 study is underway, with potential design phases targeted to begin in 2027." |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 26 10:00:32 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 25 17:38:09 2026. Because the sun doesn’t always shine. It’s not just the day-night cycle, it’s that solar panels don’t work as well when it’s overcast. You can have days or weeks of shitty weather, so batteries that can work overnight aren’t enough. Even in places like the southwest where it’s almost always sunny, there’s still winter when the days are shorter.Solar+batteries are something, they’re not everything. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 26 10:02:47 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Aug 25 18:21:47 2026. Nuclear reactors produce a constant amount of power all the time. Solar is useful for peak times. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 26 10:04:46 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 25 17:40:36 2026. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAlthough you know that already. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 26 11:00:22 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 26 10:02:47 2026. Nuclear reactors produce a constant amount of power all the time.No they don't. They have to be refueled every 18 to 24 months. The refueling operation typically takes 30 to 40 days. This averages out to a downtime of 20 consecutive days per year. These are the planned outages. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Aug 26 11:32:43 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 26 11:00:22 2026. 31 nuclear reactors in the USA have 2 reactors per site. While one is down for refueling, the other one can easily pick up the slack. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed Aug 26 11:55:17 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Aug 26 11:32:43 2026. Please don't co fuse bauman with facts. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Avid reader on Wed Aug 26 12:43:52 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 26 10:02:47 2026. When Indian Point was online it used it's overnight excess power to pump water to a reservoir as a form of stored energy. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 26 12:55:47 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Aug 26 11:32:43 2026. have 2 reactors per siteYou have just doubled the cost. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 26 13:01:50 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Avid reader on Wed Aug 26 12:43:52 2026. You are confusing Indian Point with Con Ed's Storm King proposal. |
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| (1650422) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Avid reader on Wed Aug 26 13:06:32 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 26 13:01:50 2026. That mat be. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Avid reader on Wed Aug 26 13:06:35 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 26 13:01:50 2026. That mat be. |
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| (1650427) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Aug 26 17:39:14 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 26 12:55:47 2026. Whats the alternative? Whats wrong with The concept of having a backup 2nd reactor to be available as demand increases? |
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| (1650429) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 26 18:27:43 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 26 10:00:32 2026. Throw in some wind. It tends to be windier when it's less sunny.But I grant that adding nuclear to the mix ought to be optimal. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 26 18:30:28 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Aug 25 18:21:47 2026. OK, so maybe you need coal-burning electricity to make the solar panels. Once you have them, they make electricity more cheaply than whatever you used to make the panels.Nuclear requires turbines. Turbines are complex mechanical devices that have already been optimized over the course of 2 centuries. Solar panels and batteries still have much more optimization available in the future. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Aug 26 21:00:21 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by AlM on Wed Aug 26 18:27:43 2026. Wind is too unreliable. In Germany they are taking down their wind turbines and increasing their coal dependance...all being financed by the RBC a Canadian bank. |
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Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Wed Aug 26 22:19:02 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 26 11:00:22 2026. Canada has a reactor design that can be refueled while running. So did the USSR, but you probably don't want to be within 1000 miles of that warm, collectivist irradiator. |
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