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| question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens (1649993) | |
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| (1649993) | |
question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Jailhousedoc on Thu Jul 30 21:32:19 2026 Where would you construct new lines in Eastern Queens to provide more service out there ? I am thinking the LIE service roads, Union Turnpike, maybe even Hillside Ave. Merrick Blvd allegedly has a high water table - what about Springfield Blvd ? Anyone else can chime in. |
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| (1649997) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri Jul 31 00:55:24 2026, in response to question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Jailhousedoc on Thu Jul 30 21:32:19 2026. There are at least 4 popular trains of thought on this subject.My first choice would be to extend the F line east along hillside ave to the city line. Extend the Archer Ave extension (e) south-east along the LIRR. ROW to Rosedale. I like the LIE idea but elevated like Air train out to Little Neck Pkwy Last, I like the #7 extended east replacing the LIRR to Port Washington None of these are new ideas. In fact, I saw a track plan many years ago for the Archer Ave line including a storage yard in Rosedale. If I were to suggest a 5th, it would have been to extend the A train from Lefferts Blvd along Rockaway Blvd ( limited Stops) to the Conduit and then east to Green Acres with plenty of room for a bus terminal and park and ride |
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| (1650002) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jul 31 07:01:54 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri Jul 31 00:55:24 2026. "If I were to suggest a 5th, it would have been to extend the A train from Lefferts Blvd along Rockaway Blvd ( limited Stops) to the Conduit and then east to Green Acres with plenty of room for a bus terminal and park and ride"My subchat sarcasm would suggest a 6th by opening the abandoned 76th St station and extending the line east. But that would wake up tunnelrat and create an endless thread on 76th St. lol Bill M. |
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Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri Jul 31 08:46:12 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jul 31 07:01:54 2026. Probably a simpler solution construction-wise and that was the original intent. However, from an operational standpoint, you'd haveva trunk feeding 4 branches where to maintain a reasonable level of service on any one branch, the trunk would be over-served. Of course, you could eliminate the C train from south of Chambers St. but that would still leave the 8th Ave corridor, over-served. |
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| (1650009) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jul 31 10:17:53 2026, in response to question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Jailhousedoc on Thu Jul 30 21:32:19 2026. You need to set up a criterion for rating new construction. Much of the criteria for various proposed expansions has been real estate development.My view is that proposals should be rated on the number of additional residents and buildings that come within 1/2 mile walking distance of a new subway entrance. Quantitatively, I would multiply residents or buildings by the bus revenue miles eliminated. This means, given two equal cost proposals that provide 100 additional residents/buildings such subway access, if one eliminates 1 mile bus travel vs. 2 miles for the other the proposal that eliminates the 2 mile bus ride gets priority. Given that bus operating per passenger costs are much higher than those for heavy rail and that there's very little variation in per mile construction costs, I want to reduce operating costs as well as providing additional subway service. |
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| (1650014) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jul 31 11:13:15 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri Jul 31 00:55:24 2026. All good ideas except the #7 going to Pt Washington. Pt Washington branch clientele would howl like hell forced to ride IRT sized cars as opposed to the more roomy and comfortable M7-9s.My pipe dream is for a branch off the Flushing Line either elevated or subway going up College Pt. Blvd to Whitestone. |
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| (1650021) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri Jul 31 15:27:51 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jul 31 11:13:15 2026. Not so bad idea |
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Re: Question for Train Dude — new lines in Eastern Queens? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jul 31 15:52:03 2026, in response to question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Jailhousedoc on Thu Jul 30 21:32:19 2026. This is pipe dream territory, right? |
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Re: Question for Train Dude — new lines in Eastern Queens? |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri Jul 31 21:53:35 2026, in response to Re: Question for Train Dude — new lines in Eastern Queens?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jul 31 15:52:03 2026. Absolutely |
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| (1650030) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Jailhousedoc on Fri Jul 31 23:09:41 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri Jul 31 08:46:12 2026. I like your ideas - the problem is in getting the politicians to move them into reality. I hope that at some point a move is made. |
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| (1650031) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Jailhousedoc on Fri Jul 31 23:19:14 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jul 31 10:17:53 2026. I hope that the numbers confirm what you have said and it gets the attention needed. Addding more bus lines does not make sense to me unless someone is just not going to spend the money. |
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Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Sat Aug 1 09:21:03 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Jailhousedoc on Fri Jul 31 23:09:41 2026. I cheated. Most of my "ideas" were ideas or "originally planned" but never built plans of others , especially the first 2. |
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| (1650035) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Aug 1 10:53:46 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Jailhousedoc on Fri Jul 31 23:19:14 2026. Bus routes are cheaper to implement, and depending upon the ridership better able to handle lower ridership situations. |
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| (1650041) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Aug 1 17:38:24 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Michael549 on Sat Aug 1 10:53:46 2026. Bus routes are cheaper to implement, and depending upon the ridership better able to handle lower ridership situations.There are two problems. 1. Bus operating costs per for each 50 passengers is more expensive than heavy rail. The MTA's bus operating costs per vehicle-revenue-mile or vehicle-revenue-hour are about 50% higher than the average of other large cities. NYC also has the highest number of VRM and VRH. This has translated to an excess of operating cost of over $1B in each of the last 20 years, compared to other large cities. 2. NYC is an outlier in unlinked passenger trips per vehicle-revenue-mile or vehicle-revenue-hour. The only operation that comes close is SF MUNI. All the rest are significantly lower. This means that NYC does not handle "lower ridership situations" compared to other US bus operations. |
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| (1650042) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Aug 1 17:44:12 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Jailhousedoc on Fri Jul 31 23:19:14 2026. gets the attention needed.The reverse is true. The current extension projects provide many "transfer stations" with existing lines. This does not add additional subway users. Consider the SAS stubway to 96th St. If you look at the yearly morning rush hour stats for the year before and after its opening, you will discover the the combined SAS + Lex Loc + Lex Exp did not change. The MTA is extending the SAS to 125th & Lex or even 125th & Bway and expect a different outcome. They never heard Einstein's quote. |
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| (1650043) | |
Re: Question for Train Dude — new lines in Eastern Queens? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 1 19:29:34 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Aug 1 17:44:12 2026. That was Rita Mae Brown, not Albert Einstein. |
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| (1650045) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Aug 1 20:03:23 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri Jul 31 00:55:24 2026. The Archer Avenue Line I would extend via Jamaica Avenue next to the LIRR line to Hempstead Avenue, then southeast on Hempstead to a new terminal between the entrances to UBS Arena and Belmont Park. That can also on weekdays serve as a park-and-ride that also could entice having LIRR service from there also run to Penn Station or Grand Central. |
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| (1650046) | |
Archer Avenue Line |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Aug 1 20:48:24 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri Jul 31 00:55:24 2026. The Archer Avenue Line I would extend via Jamaica Avenue next to the LIRR line to Hempstead Avenue, then southeast on Hempstead to a new terminal between the entrances to UBS Arena and Belmont Park. That can also on weekdays serve as a park-and-ride that also could entice having LIRR service from there also run to Penn Station or Grand Central. |
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| (1650050) | |
Re: Archer Avenue Line? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 2 01:10:42 2026, in response to Archer Avenue Line, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Aug 1 20:48:24 2026. You sure can pipe-dream with the best of 'em. |
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| (1650054) | |
Re: Archer Avenue Line |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Sun Aug 2 08:07:30 2026, in response to Archer Avenue Line, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Aug 1 20:48:24 2026. The upper level of the archer ave line extends about 2000 feet south-east of the station. It was planned to follow the LIRR ROW to Rosedale and likely replace the LIRR service on that short stretch of track. |
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| (1650055) | |
Re: Archer Avenue Line |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Sun Aug 2 08:07:31 2026, in response to Archer Avenue Line, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Aug 1 20:48:24 2026. The upper level of the archer ave line extends about 2000 feet south-east of the station. It was planned to follow the LIRR ROW to Rosedale and likely replace the LIRR service on that short stretch of track. |
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| (1650057) | |
Re: Archer Avenue Line |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Aug 2 09:22:45 2026, in response to Re: Archer Avenue Line, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Sun Aug 2 08:07:30 2026. That may be, but UBS Arena was not next to Belmont until 2021. Now it would make more sense if you extend the (E) to extend it to Belmont/UBS. |
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| (1650062) | |
Re: Archer Avenue Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 2 09:35:20 2026, in response to Re: Archer Avenue Line, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Sun Aug 2 08:07:30 2026. Given LIRR service levels I doubt this will ever be feasible today. |
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| (1650072) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 2 12:42:43 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Aug 1 17:38:24 2026. Interesting. |
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Re: Archer Avenue Line |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Aug 2 18:38:45 2026, in response to Re: Archer Avenue Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 2 09:35:20 2026. Another reason I would extend the (E) if it were done to Belmont Park/UBS via near Jamaica Avenue and then Hempstead Avenue. Don't forget, when Belmont reopens next month it will be racing year-round except when Saratoga is running. |
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| (1650076) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Aug 3 10:16:33 2026, in response to question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Jailhousedoc on Thu Jul 30 21:32:19 2026. My suggestions:1) Extend the F line 4 blocks to a terminal at 188th Street so it can connect to the many north-south bus lines that run there. Although the last stop is 179th Street, the tunnel runs to 184th Street to give the trains room to reverse direction. Doesn't seem like that big of a job and it would help a lot of people. 2) I have always been in favor of a Union Turnpike line. The stations could be located as follows: Union Turnpike - Forest Hills Main Street Parsons Boulevard 170th Street - Fresh Meadows Utopia Parkway - St. John's University 188th Street Francis Lewis Boulevard - Cunningham Park Bell Boulevard Springfield Boulevard Winchester Boulevard Commonwealth Boulevard Little Neck Parkway 260th Street Lakeville Road - LIJ Northwell Hospital Of course the NIMBY's in eastern Queens would go berserk. |
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| (1650077) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Aug 3 10:24:03 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Aug 3 10:16:33 2026. Extending the (F) to a new terminal at 188th Street (with tail tracks beyond there for reversals and maybe exits as far up as say 191st-192nd street) makes perfect sense. |
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| (1650078) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Aug 3 10:24:27 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Aug 3 10:16:33 2026. "Of course the NIMBY's in eastern Queens would go berserk."The NIMBY's that would be opposed to this aren't born yet. |
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| (1650079) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Aug 3 10:27:06 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Aug 3 10:16:33 2026. You seem to have touched all the major north-south streets but stations would be too close together to be efficient for heavy rail. |
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| (1650080) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Aug 3 10:32:29 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Aug 3 10:24:27 2026. Since I lived along this corridor(249th St.) for many years, let me add my perspective. When commuting to High school and 2 years of college, I would have welcomed anything thatvwould have spared me the 30-45 minute bus ride to Union Turnpike-kew Gardens Sta. Even with a seat, that bus trip was torture. |
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| (1650088) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Aug 3 15:38:10 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri Jul 31 00:55:24 2026. Interesting.The A at Lefferts was planned for expansion down Lefferts. That is why the station platform is just west of the intersection, allowing for an extension turning south. |
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Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Aug 3 19:49:36 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Aug 3 15:38:10 2026. Do you have any documentation? I've never heard this and as The fulton St. El reached Ozone Park in 1925. I don't see a purpose to turning the line south at that point as Idelwild Airport was not opened for 33 years hence. |
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| (1650090) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Aug 3 21:24:31 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Aug 3 19:49:36 2026. I thought it was generally accepted that the BMT built some terminals just short of the terminal street intersection to allow for future expansion if those plans ever came up.Lefferts Blvd terminal is just short Lefferts Blvd which would allow for a curved expansion up or down Lefferts. Ditto, Ditmars Blvd in Astoria. Ditto, 168 on the J. These terminals stopping short instead of overlapping the street seems strategic. I could be wrong. |
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Re: Archer Avenue Line |
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Posted by Jailhousedoc on Mon Aug 3 22:13:35 2026, in response to Re: Archer Avenue Line, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Sun Aug 2 08:07:30 2026. Were there any proposed plans to extend the J line east of Parsons-Archer ? Jamaica Ave. east of 168th St. looks lke something was in the planning stages, then along came WW2, then Robert Moses, then city financial problems. |
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Re: Archer Avenue Line |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Aug 3 23:11:46 2026, in response to Re: Archer Avenue Line, posted by Jailhousedoc on Mon Aug 3 22:13:35 2026. No! The J line ends at Archer Ave with no tail tracks |
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Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 4 02:45:40 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Aug 3 21:24:31 2026. Unlike most of the BMT Eastern Dual Contract lines that had concrete station platforms, both Lefferts and 168th/Jamaica were built with “temporary“ wooden platforms for future extensions. One such proposal I heard about, although undocumented, is to extend both the Liberty Av and Jamaica Ave structures farther east to a point where both avenues are close enough together to build a joint terminal for both lines somewhere in Jamaica. |
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Re: Archer Avenue Line |
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Posted by murray1575 on Tue Aug 4 13:31:06 2026, in response to Re: Archer Avenue Line, posted by Jailhousedoc on Mon Aug 3 22:13:35 2026. It's true that Jamaica Avenue seems to widen out east of the former J line terminus at 168th St. but I had never heard of any plans to extend the line further before its eventual demolition having been replaced by the Archer Ave. extension. However one day in 1929 a BMT Standard #2570 tried to extend the line further and wound up hanging off the end of the structure after dropping its front truck into the street below. |
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Re: Archer Avenue Line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Aug 4 20:43:14 2026, in response to Re: Archer Avenue Line, posted by murray1575 on Tue Aug 4 13:31:06 2026. "Lamebrain, I told you how the brakes work! What's the matter with you?!?":) |
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| (1650114) | |
Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Aug 4 20:45:12 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by randyo on Tue Aug 4 02:45:40 2026. Wasn't there a plan for an extension along Liberty, Brinkerhoff and Hollis Aves. out to Springfield Blvd? |
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Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Aug 5 02:44:52 2026, in response to Re: question for Train Dude - new lines in Eastern Queens, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Aug 4 20:45:12 2026. AFAIK that was only planned after the IND reclaimed the Fulton St el structure. |
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