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| Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. (1605478) | |
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| (1605478) | |
Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Jun 29 09:22:58 2022 Just on the heels of the Bronx Bus Network Redesign, now comes this headache to come real soon. Oy vey!MTA to 'refresh' Grand Concourse stations during rehab work MTA to 'refresh' Grand Concourse stations during rehab work By Dan Rivoli The Bronx PUBLISHED 10:52 PM ET Jun. 28, 2022 Ask riders at the last stop of the D line in the Bronx to describe their station, and they'll reply that it's in "bad shape," "deteriorated" and "disgusting." Stations along the 89-year-old B and D Grand Concourse line are showing their age. The MTA wants to change that. The agency is sprucing up nine stations on the B and D Grand Concourse line, from 167th Street to Norwood – 205 Street. What You Need To Know Nine stations on the B and D Grand Concourse lines will get fresh paint and new tiles, and be deep cleaned, as the MTA undertakes rehab work The MTA must repair corroded beams and columns on the 89-year-old line The rehab work will be completed September 2024 "The station refreshers will include improvements like scraping and painting, deep cleaning the floors, stairways, gum removal, thank God," Richard Davey, president of NYC Transit, said at an MTA board meeting on Monday. Something for riders to look forward to as the MTA drastically disrupts service for B and D commuters north of Yankee Stadium in order to perform major structural repairs on the line’s corroded beams and columns. That work will require the Grand Concourse line to close for 40 weekends, with overnight work for 75 weeks. Meanwhile, the express track will shut down 24/7 between July 5 and winter 2022. The MTA will provide a shuttle bus at the Norwood-205th Street D station to connect riders to 4 line at Mosholu Parkway station. The rehab work will be completed September 2024. "It would make a difference, so it doesn’t look as scummy as it looks at the moment, because it’s a pretty scummy station," commuter Mark Le Grand said. For those commuters who just want their train to arrive on time, the MTA's work won’t be all about beautification. Signal, drainage line and track work will also get done while the stations are closed. "Nowadays, as everything is more modern, a better-looking train does make you feel more happier to ride the train," commuter Trisha Militano said. "It doesn’t really mean much, as long as it’s on time and safe." -William A. Padron ["Concourse-205th St."] |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jun 29 09:41:58 2022, in response to Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by William A. Padron on Wed Jun 29 09:22:58 2022. Already happened Father's day weekend, D service terminated at Yankee Stadium nothing running north of there. Following weekend everything was back to normal. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Allan on Wed Jun 29 10:47:26 2022, in response to Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by William A. Padron on Wed Jun 29 09:22:58 2022. I always wondered if and when they would get around to fixing up the 'northern' stations on the Concourse line.I occasionally take the D from the Fordham Rd station and always see where tiles have fallen off the walls in big sections. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Allan on Wed Jun 29 10:47:28 2022, in response to Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by William A. Padron on Wed Jun 29 09:22:58 2022. I always wondered if and when they would get around to fixing up the 'northern' stations on the Concourse line.I occasionally take the D from the Fordham Rd station and always see where tiles have fallen off the walls in big sections. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by W.B. on Wed Jun 29 11:55:46 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Allan on Wed Jun 29 10:47:28 2022. Back when it was built, the Kingsbridge Road station, on one of the walls that are off-limits to passengers, had a 'Z' turned sideways to spell out 'KINGSBRIDGE'. Hope that's preserved in some way. It was only in one other station (since refurbished, therefore you can't see it anymore) - Queens Plaza on the IND Queens Boulevard line. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Jun 29 12:03:03 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Allan on Wed Jun 29 10:47:28 2022. Was the concourse line cut and covered thru rock and neglected to account for excessive seepage of ground water?Rusting girders, falling tiles, sounds like inadequate water through-put. Was this one of the last sections to be built as money ran out? |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Allan on Wed Jun 29 12:26:29 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by W.B. on Wed Jun 29 11:55:46 2022. If the wall is not in a passenger accessible area it would be hard to check on.That one is interesting but Brodaway will always stand out. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by zac on Wed Jun 29 12:44:49 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Avid Reader on Wed Jun 29 12:03:03 2022. I wouldn't think so because the Grand Concourse is at the top of a ridge. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 29 12:45:46 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by zac on Wed Jun 29 12:44:49 2022. Wouldn’t stop rainwater and sewage water from seeping in. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by W.B. on Wed Jun 29 12:55:00 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Allan on Wed Jun 29 12:26:29 2022. Ah yes, I know what you mean.But while passengers may not have access to walls in stations with "island platforms," crew members and construction workers doing rehab/renovations certainly do . . . |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jun 29 19:40:58 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Allan on Wed Jun 29 12:26:29 2022. Back when the IRT SMEEs had generic “Local” and “Express” signs in addition to the ones specific to each line, I rode a N/B 3 from N/Lts that had a sign that read “EXRPESS” and while it looked a bit off, I had to study it for a while to figure out exactly what the error was. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jun 29 19:41:48 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Avid Reader on Wed Jun 29 12:03:03 2022. No, portions of the IND in Bkln were finished later. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by gbs on Thu Jun 30 05:06:11 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Allan on Wed Jun 29 10:47:28 2022. tiles have fallen off the walls in big sections Don't get your hopes up. A few years ago Roosevelt Av (E,F,M,R) was rehabbed, and the wall tiles were roughed up so the new tiles would adhere properly, and the walls were retiled, and then the old tiles fell off, so there are now large sections of bare walls where both layers of tiles have fallen off, and since it was done only a few years ago, it probably won't be fixed in our lifetime. What a monumental waste of money! One encouraging note: 167 St and 174-175 St stations were done recently, and they look great, with the original tiles intact, platform floors scraped (but not tiled, thank you), columns painted, lighting enhanced. If that's the model for the others we may be OK. 205 St has always been a mess because it's extra deep (not on the Concourse ridge) with water damage everywhere.    
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jun 30 08:44:23 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by gbs on Thu Jun 30 05:06:11 2022. As I recall some IND stations in the past panels with reproduction type tiles place over crapped-up tiles.How are they holding up? Both levels of the 7th Ave station come to mind and I believe Chambers St. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Jun 30 08:44:38 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by gbs on Thu Jun 30 05:06:11 2022. Ouch! |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by gbs on Thu Jun 30 14:23:28 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jun 30 08:44:23 2022. This photo of 7 Av from 2012 shows how terrible it looks, even with the new panels, but it's not water damage. When the panels were installed, they used too much putty in the seams between the panels and it oozed out and smeared immediately and was never cleaned off. One such smear is next to the train operator's window. Note also the condition of the ceiling paint. It's one of the ugliest and most depressing stations to wait at. 
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by italianguyinsi on Thu Jun 30 15:46:30 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Avid Reader on Wed Jun 29 12:03:03 2022. Concourse was completed in 1933; it was considered part of the original 1932 extensions (e.g., Brooklyn South Line, part Crosstown and part Queens line to Jackson Heights). |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by zac on Thu Jun 30 15:54:16 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by gbs on Thu Jun 30 14:23:28 2022. Are you sure that's 7th Ave? The A doesn't usually stop there and I see no signs anywhere. I haven't been to that station in a long while so I don't recognize anything. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 30 16:15:29 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Avid Reader on Wed Jun 29 12:03:03 2022. Concourse was one of the first, opened in 1933. Only the 8th Avenue core from 207-Hudson Terminal (WTC) and the extension to Jay Street opened earlier. The last part opened before WWII was the 6th Avenue line north of W4 in December 1940.The money running out was the Fulton Line to Rockaway Avenue in 1936. It was extended to ENY in 1946 and |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 30 16:18:41 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by zac on Thu Jun 30 15:54:16 2022. It is Seventh Avenue (BDE*). The tile band gives it away.*Not dead. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 30 16:27:07 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 30 16:15:29 2022. You forgot Houston st, the Rutgers st tunnel, Queens Blvd to 169th,Crosstown completely.The 11th st cut,Rockaways/Lefferts, Culver extension were post war . |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 30 16:43:11 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 30 16:15:29 2022. You forgot Houston st, the Rutgers st tunnel, Queens Blvd to 169th,Crosstown Smith st to Church Ave..all built before 1940.The 11th st cut,Rockaways/Lefferts, Culver extension were post war routes that were planned earlier, but no funding until later Culver was actually finished, but lacked a track connection during the war years. SOME Second system routes Could have been constructed before some first system routes, like SAS.. But those plans were linked to things that just didn't make sense, even for those times The end result, was the expressway they wanted under Second Ave found its way over to the EAST RIVER,becoming the FDR Drive...and the subway was put on the back burner, even after the massive land clearing along Chrystie st from Houston st to the Manhattan Bridge. The land became a park..without the subway or highway underneath it. There were plenty of subway projects that were started,then stopped all of the sudden. Madison Avenue was one such project. It was a by pass line off Broadway that would have run to 61st st,under the East River to Queens plaza..then to a new Queens subway. Obviously, there was a serious problem sinse Someone stopped the construction cold. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 30 16:46:22 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 30 16:27:07 2022. All of those opened before the Sixth Avenue Subway and after Concourse, so I forgot nothing.Those other postwar extensions were not part of the original IND. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jun 30 20:42:20 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by zac on Thu Jun 30 15:54:16 2022. The A doesn't usually stop therebut if the A is rerouted at W4th up 6th Ave ... |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Thu Jun 30 21:28:36 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 30 16:18:41 2022. It is Seventh Avenue (BDE*)"BDE" = The initials most frequently these days used for the 1981 mega hit "Bette Davis Eyes" made famous by singer Kim Carnes.  -William A. Padron ["She is pure as New York snow"] |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by The Silence on Fri Jul 1 00:53:28 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Allan on Wed Jun 29 10:47:28 2022. as part of my training, they showed us the operational procedures at the north end of the Concourse line last week.(we now have to make a special announcement about the delay for changing crew at Bedford Park Blvd) After visiting 205 I felt like I needed a shower and we were there less than five minutes. Personally I would consider extending the line one stop just to meet the IRT at Gun Hill Road so the D can have a PROPER terminal and give the bronx better connections. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by gbs on Fri Jul 1 01:59:13 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by zac on Thu Jun 30 15:54:16 2022. The A doesn't usually stop there Correct, but apparently the photographers like to take pictures there during re-routes. Another from 2012, same smear behind pantograph gate:  Two from last February, showing an exposed section of old wall:   1971, with original IND wall tiles: 
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by zac on Fri Jul 1 20:15:55 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by gbs on Fri Jul 1 01:59:13 2022. Got it! I think you made your point. Great pics. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Allan on Sat Jul 2 11:03:24 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by The Silence on Fri Jul 1 00:53:28 2022. -Personally I would consider extending the line one stop just to meet the IRT at Gun Hill Road so the D can have a PROPER terminal and give the bronx better connections.'I would have liked the original idea of extending the line via Burke Av to near the NYW&B row (now Dyre Av line) and taking it over. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jul 2 11:13:07 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Allan on Sat Jul 2 11:03:24 2022. I would have liked the original idea of extending the line via Burke Av to near the NYW&B row (now Dyre Av line) and taking it over.That sounds good. Were there express and local stations there, or all local stations originally? |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Sat Jul 2 15:20:25 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jul 2 11:13:07 2022. One big problem...The tunnel for the IND Concourse Line ends along East 205th Street on the west side of Webster Avenue. Across the street and standing in the way is the deep foundation of an active charter school building, and where the tunnel would had emerge to cross over the railroad tracks and the Bronx River Parkway, and then back underground. Now, I am aware that during the Eliot Sander era at the MTA, they were thinking of at least extending the Concourse Line to Gun Hill Road and White Plains Road, connecting with the IRT there. They might would had to curve upward and north on Webster Avenue to Gun Hill Road, right turn towards White Plains Road. That would have been something though. -William A. Padron ["Gun Hill Road"] |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Jul 2 20:42:10 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Allan on Wed Jun 29 10:47:26 2022. There are a total of 11 stations along the Concourse line, from 155th St. to 205th St. 161st and 174th/175th have been rehabbed, meaning that if they are now going to do nine stations (all the rest), that will include 155th St.-8 Av. in Manhattan, no? |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Jul 2 20:52:17 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by William A. Padron on Sat Jul 2 15:20:25 2022. They were thinking about extending the D OVER the Metro-North tracks and Bronx River Parkway? That sounds bizarre. I can't believe they would disrupt that part of Bronx Park like that. IF it were to be extended, I'd expect it to under the park, not over. But either way, it would be a major project unlikely to ever happen. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Sat Jul 2 21:06:14 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Jul 2 20:52:17 2022. Wikipedia says this (I have broken this in paragraphs for easier reading)...IND Concourse Line - Provisions for expansion The Concourse Line is mostly straight north of 161st Street–Yankee Stadium, but makes a slight right turn north of Bedford Park Boulevard to end at Norwood–205th Street, with a provision to extend farther east. The original IND Second System Plan in 1929 proposed extending the line to Baychester Avenue via Burke Avenue and Boston Road. The extension, called "Route 106", was proposed to run elevated over Bronx Park in the lower-deck of a viaduct connecting 205th Street and Burke Avenue. The first stop on the extension would have been at White Plains and Gun Hill Roads. The Second System plans had multiple IND lines criss-crossing the five boroughs; however, the country was in the midst of the Great Depression, and the city had neither the money nor the need to either extend the line east of 205th Street or make the line four tracks. A second plan in the 1930s had an additional extension along Burke Avenue to the New York, Westchester and Boston Railway, running north along the railroad to Dyre Avenue. Preliminary engineering work for the extension along Burke Avenue took place in 1937 and 1938. The city, however, found it easier and less expensive to purchase the railroad (now the IRT Dyre Avenue Line) and connect it with the IRT White Plains Road Line, which hampered the Burke Avenue−Boston Road extension of the Concourse Line to Baychester Avenue. In the 1960s and 1970 under the city's Program for Action, it was proposed to extend the line a short distance to White Plains Road and Burke Avenue, at the IRT White Plains Road Line. Financial troubles also caused the plan to be aborted. -William A. Padron ["Concourse-8th Ave.\Independent Subway System"] |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sat Jul 2 22:09:52 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 30 16:27:07 2022. So was the 179th St. extension on Hillside Ave. There have been sporadic talks about extending the line farther out but I don't think that will ever happen. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 3 02:42:58 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by William A. Padron on Sat Jul 2 21:06:14 2022. Actually when the city purchases the NYW&B ROW within city limits, the plans then became to connect the newly acquired Dyre Line with the Second Ave subway. One of the early plans for a Bx leg of the SAS was a subway line along Morris Pk Ave but the purchase of the Dyre Line offered a cheaper alternative. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jul 3 14:35:45 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Jul 2 20:52:17 2022. Looking at the topo map, street level at 205th st station is about 50 ' higher than the Bronx River. On the other hand, the station is deep, and there's 1000' distance for the line to drop another bunch of feet, so under would seem doable. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 3 15:20:20 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by AlM on Sun Jul 3 14:35:45 2022. The tunnel dead ends at Webster, so there is clearly not enough room for it go any deeper. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by mkeit on Sun Jul 3 16:13:02 2022, in response to Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by William A. Padron on Wed Jun 29 09:22:58 2022. It doesn't say when the work will start. No contract for the work has been advertised yet. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jul 3 16:38:31 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 3 15:20:20 2022. It's still another 500 feet from Webster to the river. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 3 17:50:55 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by AlM on Sun Jul 3 16:38:31 2022. LOL! |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Sun Jul 3 19:19:08 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by mkeit on Sun Jul 3 16:13:02 2022. The work started this weekend already. Uptown "D" trains are ending their runs at 161st-River, then are turning back from there, relaying to the middle express track and skipping 155th-8th going southbound. Side signs for the uptown terminal designation on the R-68's are being set as "Harlem \ 145 St".Meanwhile, from the MTA website... Reconstructing the D express track in the Bronx -William A. Padron ["Concourse-6th Av. Exp."] |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jul 3 19:36:46 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 3 17:50:55 2022. I have no idea what your point is. |
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Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions. |
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Posted by mkeit on Sun Jul 3 22:21:33 2022, in response to Re: Major IND Concourse Line Service Disruptions., posted by William A. Padron on Sun Jul 3 19:19:08 2022. I was referring to the station work |
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